General
Saturday, 03 March 2012 03:41
195 Comments
By a Newsnet reporter 
Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont has come under fire after new revelations emerged over the behaviour of the Labour group in Glasgow Council.
Ms Lamont, who is due to give a keynote speech to party delegates today, is facing charges that she has lost control of Scotland’s largest local authority after it emerged that a female councillor at the centre of bullying claims was forced to appear before a board of a council controlled firm that employs her disabled son.
The Scottish Labour leader has faced criticism over her failure to act after several claims of intmidation and bullying were levelled against the Labour group at Glasgow council.
It has now emerged that Anne Marie Millar, who recently claimed her disabled son’s apprenticeship was threatened by Labour councillor Gilbert Davidson, was summoned to explain herself in front of the board of City Building - the firm that employs her son.
Despite the alleged victim – Ms Millar – being summoned to appear, Newsnet Scotland understands that Labour councillor Mr Davidson, a board member, was not.
Ms Millar had alleged Mr Davidson brought up her son’s employment with the firm moments prior to a crucial vote, in an attempt at persuading her to support the Labour group.
The alleged incident resulted in Ms Millar breaking down in a TV interview and brought a pledge from Glasgow Labour of a full investigation, however thus far no investigation has been apparent.
The situation has now been compounded after it emerged that another Labour candidate in the city is also the subject of allegations of bullying.
John Kelly - the election agent of Labour MP Margaret Curran - was selected as a candidate for Glasgow Council, despite being the subject of another complaint about bullying by a Labour member in Baillieston.
In a written complaint to Margaret Curran MP, Scottish Labour Secretary Colin Smyth and Cllr Jim Coleman, 61 year old Rosina Muir claimed Mr Kelly left her shaken after loudly haranguing her in an incident in Morrison’s store in Baillieston. Despite a written complaint from Ms Muir, Mr Kelly was announced as a late candidate for the Garscadden/Scotsounhill ward on 28th February.
In the letter Ms Muir wrote:
I wish to lodge a complaint against Labour Party member Mr John Kelly. On the 14th of December at approximately 17:30hrs, Mr John Kelly approached me at the checkout counter in the Morrison’s at Baillieston. He said to me from across the aisle, ‘I hope you are happy, you should be ashamed of yourself’.
He expressed himself loudly for everyone to hear and repeated the accusation against me several times. Noticing my obvious distress, my son Mark intervened and requested Mr Kelly to cease addressing me in such a fashion. Mr Kelly then said loudly to Mark that he also should feel ashamed of himself. After he left, the store supervisor came up to me asking why he had approached me in such a manner. Ms McCormack stated that only due to my son’s presence beside me, she didn’t call security. I felt highly embarrassed and extremely shaken by the entire incident.
I believe that I have only met Mr Kelly once before, at the Baillieston selection meeting two weeks ago. So in my opinion, it can only be this particular meeting to which he is referring. Mr Kelly was seeking nomination to become a candidate for the local government elections and unfortunately, he did not get selected. Perhaps it was through anger and frustration that he felt that he had the right to approach a woman of 61 years who had just finished a long day at work, and make these comments in a very public place...
The Labour party has been dogged by controversy in recent months after several councillors left the party amid acrimonious claims of intimidation and interference from London.
The Glasgow Labour group courted further controversy after former MSP Frank McAveety was promoted by Labour as one of its leading candidates for the local elections in Glasgow, despite being the subject of an ongoing police investigation.
The police investigation follows complaints last September by former Glasgow Labour councillor Andy Muir over Mr MacAveety’s expense claims when he was a Labour MSP.
Mr MacAveety hit the headlines last year after Newsnet Scotland revealed he had claimed over £14,000 of taxpayer’s cash for a so called ‘battle bus’.
Mr McAveety, then Labour MSP for Glasgow Shettleston, apparently used it from 2007 to 2009 to travel around the area meeting constituents. The silver and purple bus was decked out in livery identifying it as a mobile surgery for Frank McAveety, MSP.
When Newsnet Scotland questioned the Labour MSP over the costs, he claimed to have used the bus “primarily for community events and for access to and for constituents”. However Mr McAveety declined to reveal exactly what these ‘community events’ were.
MacAveety subsequently lost his Shettleston seat to the SNP.
James Dornan, SNP MSP for Glasgow Cathcart, said today:
“Johann Lamont will address her first Labour conference as a leader without control or credibility, presiding over a party whose internal practices increasingly reveal it to be unfit for office.
“I have now written twice to Johann Lamont, asking her to take action following the alleged acts of bullying and intimidation against Cllr Anne Marie Millar, which were witnessed by myself and many others in Glasgow City Chambers a few weeks ago. She has not had the courtesy to reply and has said not a word publicly to condemn this behaviour by one of her party’s elected members.
“Not only that, the party has gone on to select yet another candidate against whom a complaint of bullying and intimidation has been made. And while over a third of their council group was prevented from standing again for Labour because they were deemed not good enough, a former MSP who is subject to an ongoing police investigation is apparently entirely suitable as a Labour candidate, as is Alistair “Taj Mahal” Watson”
“It’s quite clear that in Glasgow Labour there’s one rule for some people and one rule for others, and if you’re one of the favoured clique you can rely on Johann Lamont to stay silent, no matter how you behave.
“As Labour’s roll of dishonour grows ever longer, voters in Glasgow and across Scotland can clearly see that there is something rotten at the heart of the Labour party - and that its leader Johann Lamont apparently has neither the will nor the inclination to do anything about it.
“Glasgow and Scotland deserve better – if Ms Lamont is unwilling or unable to get her own house in order, how can she ever seriously be considered as a potential leader of the country?”
Comments
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2012-03-03 08:40
Is it just me or is there something amiss here? I was under the impression (and that impression would appear to be correct according to City Building's own website) that: 'City Building was established in 2006 from the former Building Services Department of Glasgow City Council'. Nowhere does it say that City Building is a part of the Scottish Labour Party. So just why, in the name of everything that is holy, is this councillor being called before a department of Glasgow City Council to explain defying the Labour party?
I for one will be purchasing a good sturdy harness today so that I can strap myself onto my sofa as I await whatever perfectly plausable and reasonable explaination the Labour party will no doubt give for this.
Oh, and whats that I hear? Off in the distance... a faint noise... ah yes, its the sound of Johann Lamont saying absolutely fudge all on the matter.
I for one will be purchasing a good sturdy harness today so that I can strap myself onto my sofa as I await whatever perfectly plausable and reasonable explaination the Labour party will no doubt give for this.
Oh, and whats that I hear? Off in the distance... a faint noise... ah yes, its the sound of Johann Lamont saying absolutely fudge all on the matter.
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2012-03-03 10:24
PrideoftheClyde
I share your concerns. We have a Labour controlled council creating "at length" companies. This created wealth generation for individuals and a source of party donations. That these people can be so arrogant that they no longer pretend to be companies is shocking. We can now see the real reason for the creation of these companies. I thought it was an illegal fund raising enterprise. However it is now clear that should Labour lose control of Glasgow they hope to retain power through the placement of Labour heavies in thes companies.
I share your concerns. We have a Labour controlled council creating "at length" companies. This created wealth generation for individuals and a source of party donations. That these people can be so arrogant that they no longer pretend to be companies is shocking. We can now see the real reason for the creation of these companies. I thought it was an illegal fund raising enterprise. However it is now clear that should Labour lose control of Glasgow they hope to retain power through the placement of Labour heavies in thes companies.
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2012-03-03 10:35
Most of the Labour Party members who sit on the boards of ALEOs are there in the capacity as councillors. So come May we should be waving a fair few of them goodbye.
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2012-03-03 10:55
Yes, at the head - but don't you think they ensured employment of loyal followers (jobs for the boys)
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2012-03-03 08:43
I'm surprised that there's no mention of the simple reason why Johann won't say a word against the ruling faction of councillors in Glasgow Labour.
Her husband is second in command of it.
Her husband is second in command of it.
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2012-03-03 09:03
Nothing changes at the OK Corral. John Kelly a bully and Curran's election agent, well he has all the qualifications necessary to be an elected representative of Scottish labour. On the scale of bullies I always have Brown as the most successful and Good Doing Davidson on the more intellectually challenged end of it. Where to place Kelly and Gilbert Davidson in the scheme of things?
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2012-03-03 09:25
I think it is quite sad what has become of Labour, especially in Glasgow. The problem as I see it, is that the REAL management of Labour, in London, is just not fully aware of what is going on in Scotland's Labour groups. The London management of the Labour party only gets told what the corrupted individuals in Scotland let them know.
Labour in Scotland, and I say this as someone who really believed in Labour at one point, has become a corrupted self serving mess, filled to the gunnels with personally 'chosen' sycophants and toadying individuals, who see it all as one big gravy train. The people of Glasgow and Scotland are NOT their priority, instead the voters are merely a vehicle to help them attain personal wealth and career progression.
The phrase 'jobs for the boys', has never before been more appropriate.
The ultimate achievement is to become one of the Scottish Labour MP's who go to London, to join the other troughers, That ticket to London, is a ticket to a salary most of them could never hope to attain in any other walk of life, a free second home in central London and a gold plated pension far beyond the reach of any other working person in Scotland - or indeed Europe.
Is it any wonder, therefore, why Labour MP's from Scotland will say and do almost anything, including working with the Tories, in order to undermine Scotland's ambitions for self determination??
Labour in Scotland long, long ago, abandoned the voters and became a house of greasy pole climbers interested in themselves. What they have to say regarding trying to help the working people of Scotland, is nothing more than self serving effluent.
If the SNP manage to defeat Labour in Glasgow in May, they should call in the auditor general to thoroughly investigate the money trail.
I can only assume, Ed 'call me dave' Miliband is too busy toadying up to the Tories in London to even notice what is happening with his party in Scotland.
Labour in Scotland, and I say this as someone who really believed in Labour at one point, has become a corrupted self serving mess, filled to the gunnels with personally 'chosen' sycophants and toadying individuals, who see it all as one big gravy train. The people of Glasgow and Scotland are NOT their priority, instead the voters are merely a vehicle to help them attain personal wealth and career progression.
The phrase 'jobs for the boys', has never before been more appropriate.
The ultimate achievement is to become one of the Scottish Labour MP's who go to London, to join the other troughers, That ticket to London, is a ticket to a salary most of them could never hope to attain in any other walk of life, a free second home in central London and a gold plated pension far beyond the reach of any other working person in Scotland - or indeed Europe.
Is it any wonder, therefore, why Labour MP's from Scotland will say and do almost anything, including working with the Tories, in order to undermine Scotland's ambitions for self determination??
Labour in Scotland long, long ago, abandoned the voters and became a house of greasy pole climbers interested in themselves. What they have to say regarding trying to help the working people of Scotland, is nothing more than self serving effluent.
If the SNP manage to defeat Labour in Glasgow in May, they should call in the auditor general to thoroughly investigate the money trail.
I can only assume, Ed 'call me dave' Miliband is too busy toadying up to the Tories in London to even notice what is happening with his party in Scotland.
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2012-03-03 10:11
Well said Robert Louis.
The problem is that people continue to vote for them.
Yesterday I wasted three minutes of my life watching part of the Dundee conference on the BBC.
Again, Johann brought up the Forth Road Bridge and China and yet the audience clapped and cheered.
I just don't get it.
The problem is that people continue to vote for them.
Yesterday I wasted three minutes of my life watching part of the Dundee conference on the BBC.
Again, Johann brought up the Forth Road Bridge and China and yet the audience clapped and cheered.
I just don't get it.
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2012-03-03 10:40
Nor should you Louper. Thankfully the more people who don't understand this stance of constant negativity the more chance this country has.
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2012-03-03 13:37
What a well constructed piece of writing RL. You have encapsulated the real reasons for Labour support for the Union as nothing more than selfish ambition very well indeed.
My own thinking was what exctly would Frank McAveety do as a career after politics; what was his skills set in: engineering, accountancy etc... no he wants to return to politics as a councillor as a means to continue collecting money for nothing. A man who leaches onto the political system not to better the folks he is supposed to represent but to support his own financial needs.
Maybe I am being a bit harsh but Labour politicians just do not seem to be the brightest. Ach I will stop there
My own thinking was what exctly would Frank McAveety do as a career after politics; what was his skills set in: engineering, accountancy etc... no he wants to return to politics as a councillor as a means to continue collecting money for nothing. A man who leaches onto the political system not to better the folks he is supposed to represent but to support his own financial needs.
Maybe I am being a bit harsh but Labour politicians just do not seem to be the brightest. Ach I will stop there
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2012-03-03 14:05
Good post RL.
The only thing I would add would be the fundamental shift in labour policy in the last 15-20 years. Following the Thatcher years, they continued the de-regulation of the financial markets as they saw this as the way to create wealth in the UK. It followed Clinton's actions from the previous years in the USA, who had a major influence on Blair.
This was mostly born out of the fear that a Labour government with it's history of public spending would send the markets crashing. Labour gave in to this and in dong so, we saw their fundamental shift to centre ground. They have become a party for the middle classes.
This fundamental shift has caused problems within the Labour party that we are still feeling the ramifications of today. I think a lot of Scots labourites still feel that Old Labour is what they feel most in tune with, but NuLabour don't like this, hence the internal bickering and this move to deselect many of the party candidates north of the border.
They simply have not come to terms with their own identity.
The only thing I would add would be the fundamental shift in labour policy in the last 15-20 years. Following the Thatcher years, they continued the de-regulation of the financial markets as they saw this as the way to create wealth in the UK. It followed Clinton's actions from the previous years in the USA, who had a major influence on Blair.
This was mostly born out of the fear that a Labour government with it's history of public spending would send the markets crashing. Labour gave in to this and in dong so, we saw their fundamental shift to centre ground. They have become a party for the middle classes.
This fundamental shift has caused problems within the Labour party that we are still feeling the ramifications of today. I think a lot of Scots labourites still feel that Old Labour is what they feel most in tune with, but NuLabour don't like this, hence the internal bickering and this move to deselect many of the party candidates north of the border.
They simply have not come to terms with their own identity.
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2012-03-03 15:08
Glasgow.Labour have a 5 year plan in city of my childhood.Happy memories.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Not so sure now.Whatever Labour did to it,it's still a great place,despite them.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Not so sure now.Whatever Labour did to it,it's still a great place,despite them.
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2012-03-03 09:36
RL. Possibly the best analysis of just how rotten Labour in Scotland have become.
I will keep this as I don't think it can be bettered. So if Labour are all set to implode and the Lib-Dems are slitting their own wrists, that leaves us with the conservatives which Murdo did a great hatchet job on.
I worry for democracy in Scotland. I firmly believe the SNP have Scotlands best interests ar heart but then, so did the Labour Party in Scotland in far gone days.
Power, over generations, corrupts, unless there are checks and balances. Maybe our salvation will come after the referendum when the SNP might split into more difinitive factions as it is one hell of a broad church at the moment.
I will keep this as I don't think it can be bettered. So if Labour are all set to implode and the Lib-Dems are slitting their own wrists, that leaves us with the conservatives which Murdo did a great hatchet job on.
I worry for democracy in Scotland. I firmly believe the SNP have Scotlands best interests ar heart but then, so did the Labour Party in Scotland in far gone days.
Power, over generations, corrupts, unless there are checks and balances. Maybe our salvation will come after the referendum when the SNP might split into more difinitive factions as it is one hell of a broad church at the moment.
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2012-03-03 09:48
I agree, the SNP is a broad church. It is focussed on one thing, the restoration of Scottish independence. However, it also has attracted the very best talent whilst in Government.
What distinguishes the SNP from say the other anti independence parties, is that it is run and managed right here in Scotland. It is not managed, to use the old devolution phrase, by remote control from London. So, whilst we need good opposition in the Scottish parliament, I really do not think we will see it from Labour in their current guise.
After independence is achieved, it is a fact there will be an election. Then, the people of Scotland can choose the Government they want for an independent Scotland. It may not be SNP, indeed the SNP may feel the need to change once it has achieved its objective - independence.
I don't doubt that at that point, there might even be NEW important voices within Scotland and its politics. It will be a great thing for democracy and for Scotland.
The starting point is the restoration of Scottish independence and the ned of London rule. Only then will the people of Scotland get the Government they want and deserve.
What distinguishes the SNP from say the other anti independence parties, is that it is run and managed right here in Scotland. It is not managed, to use the old devolution phrase, by remote control from London. So, whilst we need good opposition in the Scottish parliament, I really do not think we will see it from Labour in their current guise.
After independence is achieved, it is a fact there will be an election. Then, the people of Scotland can choose the Government they want for an independent Scotland. It may not be SNP, indeed the SNP may feel the need to change once it has achieved its objective - independence.
I don't doubt that at that point, there might even be NEW important voices within Scotland and its politics. It will be a great thing for democracy and for Scotland.
The starting point is the restoration of Scottish independence and the ned of London rule. Only then will the people of Scotland get the Government they want and deserve.
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2012-03-03 11:16
I'm sure 'ned of London rule' was a typo but it works quite well given the context of Labour party officials and their behaviour. Bottle of Buckfast anyone?
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2012-03-03 09:55
I see Lamont will today, in her speech, assert that devolution is not just about powers going from London to Scotland, and that re-reserving powers to London can be an important part of devolution.
That's a real vote winner.
Have Labour learnt nothing?????
Seriously, Labour are now saying they will have a 'commission on devolution' in Scotland. Is that not what Calman was??
So, now we have the Libdem commission on 'home rule', and the Labour commission on 'devolution' in Scotland.
You really couldn't make this up.
That's a real vote winner.
Have Labour learnt nothing?????
Seriously, Labour are now saying they will have a 'commission on devolution' in Scotland. Is that not what Calman was??
So, now we have the Libdem commission on 'home rule', and the Labour commission on 'devolution' in Scotland.
You really couldn't make this up.
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2012-03-03 11:49
Let them waste all the time they want. Time and tide wait for no-one and the Autumn of 2014 is coming whether they're ready or not.
I wonder how all these commissions fit in with their demand to hold the referendum "sooner rather than later"? Oh, of course, they only want to think about all this devolution stuff after the referendum!
I wonder how all these commissions fit in with their demand to hold the referendum "sooner rather than later"? Oh, of course, they only want to think about all this devolution stuff after the referendum!
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2012-03-03 10:14
Outstanding job JL
Labour in Scotland, the more it "changes", the more is the same old.
Hopeless.
They are not listening, not even hearing by now, just talking non stop; fortunately, nobody can understand what they are uttering and they are being dismissed as we type.
Not many councils in their hands after May.
Labour in Scotland, the more it "changes", the more is the same old.
Hopeless.
They are not listening, not even hearing by now, just talking non stop; fortunately, nobody can understand what they are uttering and they are being dismissed as we type.
Not many councils in their hands after May.
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2012-03-03 10:19
I have just been listening to Newsweek on Radio Scotland and getting from David Torrance, the Tory guru that he is an unresconstucted federalist! That puts Johann in a box because she is now saying that she wants to keep the block grant, only that we should have more of it from London. That is also a real vote winner - not. She must be getting her political direction from Glasgow City Council Labour dinasaurs viz her husband.
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2012-03-03 11:51
Increasing the pocket money released by London but otherwise keep Scotland under the thumb.
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2012-03-03 10:21
We are stronger together
Great tradition of Labour in Scotland championing the cause of the hard working man and woman
Nothing to see in Glasgow, move along
Great tradition of Labour in Scotland championing the cause of the hard working man and woman
Nothing to see in Glasgow, move along
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2012-03-03 10:21
A Commission investigating Labour Party in Glasgow City Council would be more relevant to Mrs Graham.
Worth listening to excellent debate on Unionists Devo options on Newsweek Scotland this morning
Worth listening to excellent debate on Unionists Devo options on Newsweek Scotland this morning
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2012-03-03 10:28
BBC are proud of their investigative research on Glasgow Rangers and yet they ignore the behaviour of Glasgow Labour councillors.
BBC Scotland - hang your head in shame.
BBC Scotland - hang your head in shame.
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2012-03-03 20:07
They're also proud of their investigation ito Gail Sheridan, wife of Tommy, even acquiring the police interview tapes of her.
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2012-03-03 10:38
That simpering nonsense from Milliband yesterday showed that new labour is still alive and well.He obviously went to the same acting school as Blair.
However for all the doe eyed rubbish they have MPs physically attacking other MPs, councillors bullying their colleagues,and MPs threatening other MPs.Same old Labour ,they can never change.
However for all the doe eyed rubbish they have MPs physically attacking other MPs, councillors bullying their colleagues,and MPs threatening other MPs.Same old Labour ,they can never change.
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2012-03-03 10:54
The Labour Party - another political organisation rapidly bringing about its Scottish sunset.
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2012-03-03 11:13
Scotsman reports that A BILLIONAIRE Labour donor has appeared in court in London over an alleged £700 million bribe.
Jordanian-born metals magnate Victor Dahdaleh, 68, is accused of offences relating to contracts for the supply of aluminium to Bahrain.
Jordanian-born metals magnate Victor Dahdaleh, 68, is accused of offences relating to contracts for the supply of aluminium to Bahrain.
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2012-03-03 11:15
On the face of it, inviting Ms Millar to a board meeting of Messer’s City Building might just be the start of an investigation into Cllr Davidson's alleged behaviour. Ms Millar could have been asked so that she could advise the board as to what had allegedly happened in order that the board can consider next steps or make assurances that her son would, in no way, be deliberately targeted. So, short of a statement from either party, I'm reserving judgement at this point. However, I have a concern around the word summoned, it has altogether nastier connotations and would merit some form of additional representation at said board meeting, which I hope she took.
The incident regarding John Kelly’s behaviour looks altogether more sinister. It could have been a deliberate attempt to provoke an incident that would have besmirched M’s Muir family name. For example, had her son attacked him and struck the first blow. Even if it was not that, the man has behaved in an oafish and threatening manner, hardly the standard for a possible future public figure and this merits further action by labour and quickly (warning – do not hold your breath).
Anent the silence of Lamont, I’m beginning to think that she is either keeping quiet regarding these issues, as she knows that there is more to come out e.g. the Eric Joyce MP case. Or she has a communications style that operates by “saying nothing [on a subject] until she has everything to say”. Unfortunately for her, this style leaves large gaps into which people will fill with their own take on the matter.
Today will be a big day for Johann Lamont she has a lot of explaining to do – or not as is most likely the case.
The incident regarding John Kelly’s behaviour looks altogether more sinister. It could have been a deliberate attempt to provoke an incident that would have besmirched M’s Muir family name. For example, had her son attacked him and struck the first blow. Even if it was not that, the man has behaved in an oafish and threatening manner, hardly the standard for a possible future public figure and this merits further action by labour and quickly (warning – do not hold your breath).
Anent the silence of Lamont, I’m beginning to think that she is either keeping quiet regarding these issues, as she knows that there is more to come out e.g. the Eric Joyce MP case. Or she has a communications style that operates by “saying nothing [on a subject] until she has everything to say”. Unfortunately for her, this style leaves large gaps into which people will fill with their own take on the matter.
Today will be a big day for Johann Lamont she has a lot of explaining to do – or not as is most likely the case.
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2012-03-03 11:27
If she had any sense she would have had a concealed mic or camera secreted on her to record anything and everything.
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2012-03-03 16:19
Alternatively, Robabody, she could be copying the style of Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy. Keep quiet and the MSM will move on to another issue.
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2012-03-03 11:33
JL claims to have made mince many times, but she certainly talks mince. Just been watching her interview with BT and I decided beforehand to listen to it right through to the end however painful it could be. My conclusion was, not surprisingly, was that how could any right minded person even dream of envisaging this person to lead fight for and to protect the people of Scotland's interests now and in the future. The same old cliches "we need to listen and learn from the people of Scotland" they have had as long as I was a youth in power and they still need to learn! Roll on 2014
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2012-03-03 11:36
Mrs Lamont should be more honest regarding, her fighting for Scotland comments, The scotch Labour party are still a small branch of the British labour party, who actually takes her orders from London, she needs to be Questioned on this everytime, so once again mrs Lamont you may like Scotland but you work for Westmonster!!
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2012-03-03 11:39
Unfortunately Labour and Ms Lamont are presently living in the "big castle",the one with the moat and guards!
They presume that the hoi polloi are living in a vacuum with no news, no access to information.
As history has shown,castles are not impregnable...and the people aren't stupid.
They presume that the hoi polloi are living in a vacuum with no news, no access to information.
As history has shown,castles are not impregnable...and the people aren't stupid.
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2012-03-03 13:10
Thanks for that. It is an interesting read.
I was particularly taken with Anas Sarwar's remark that 'the Union allows redistribution [of wealth] from the south of England to Scotland'. Those of us in Scotland will be well used variations on the too wee, too poor theme. However I can't see 'Vote Labour to bail out poor wee Scotland' going down a storm in the south of England.
Is the Labour strategy just to say the first thing than pops into their heads?
O/T but speaking of Lesley Riddoch. She'll be appearing at the Aye Write Festival on 10th March as part of a panel debating independence.
ayewrite.com/.../...
I was particularly taken with Anas Sarwar's remark that 'the Union allows redistribution [of wealth] from the south of England to Scotland'. Those of us in Scotland will be well used variations on the too wee, too poor theme. However I can't see 'Vote Labour to bail out poor wee Scotland' going down a storm in the south of England.
Is the Labour strategy just to say the first thing than pops into their heads?
O/T but speaking of Lesley Riddoch. She'll be appearing at the Aye Write Festival on 10th March as part of a panel debating independence.
ayewrite.com/.../...
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2012-03-03 11:48
This Labour disarray has even reached Dumfropolis, where general Secretary of the Labour Party in Scotland Colin Smyth is a local councillor...
.../dumfries-in-fearful-factionalist.html
.../dumfries-in-fearful-factionalist.html
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2012-03-03 11:56
O/T Derek Bateman's 'Newsweek' was brilliant today. The hour just flew past. An excellent piece about Trident and the wider implications if Scotland votes 'Yes' and a discussion about devo+/max/ enhanced powers with Murray Pittock, David Torrance and Lesley Riddoch(interes ting what she had to say about a Labour Party fringe meeting she'd just been at).
She writes about that meeting in piece posted on her website this morning:
"Devo Fringe – Labour in Dundee"
lesleyriddoch.co.uk/.../...
She writes about that meeting in piece posted on her website this morning:
"Devo Fringe – Labour in Dundee"
lesleyriddoch.co.uk/.../...
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2012-03-03 12:39
Didn`t take long for the "redistribution" nonsense to get blown out of the water wingsland.podgamer.com/.../
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2012-03-03 14:28
'Newsweek'. Refreshingly impartial programme. No wonder the Beeb want to get rid of it. It doesn't fit with their mission statement.
It will be interesting to see if the 'redistribution' idea has legs, or if the concept will be quietly dropped by Labour. I wonder what whizzkid at Labour HQ thought that one up as a bright idea and neither Miliband nor Lamont could read the irony into it?
It will be interesting to see if the 'redistribution' idea has legs, or if the concept will be quietly dropped by Labour. I wonder what whizzkid at Labour HQ thought that one up as a bright idea and neither Miliband nor Lamont could read the irony into it?
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2012-03-03 12:11
Thanks for that, snowthistle. Interesting point made by Lesley in that while Lamont is off gallivanting leading? her "new" commission, who leads the Labour party in Scotland? I don,t think we need concern ourselves, because after the May council elections, the landslide that took the S.N.P to power in 2010, is likely to be repeated, so what will the "high heid yins" in London do with her then, dump her and replace her with a new leader from their "pool" of talent, or keep her in place until the rump of their party all but departs the political scene. Frankly, you wouldn,t trust this woman to "run a menage", and her disgraceful silence over the scandals in Glasgow speaks volumes sbout her arrogant attitude to her fellow citizens. Right enough as a previous poster commented, "her man", is the deputy leader of the council. As for her statement on Joyce she needn,t have wasted her breath. The poor voters of Falkirk are lumbered with this excuse for an M.P for the next three years, and she can do nothing about it, not that she really wants to, as they would lose the by-election.
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2012-03-03 13:17
I think they are keeping her well clear of any controversy so that she doesn't become associated with it in the minds of the voters.
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2012-03-03 14:39
It is a good strategy for Joyce. Don't step down now, but stretch it out for as long as possible to 2015, when memories have dimmed and what he did wouldn't seem so bad.
It seems like the people who write the parliamentary rules have taken all this into consideration before hand. Like the situation in the Lords where the law makers, who are supposed to write stuff that cannot be misinterpreted by the general public, leave out anything in their own rules of engagement that is likely to compromise their own position.
It seems like the people who write the parliamentary rules have taken all this into consideration before hand. Like the situation in the Lords where the law makers, who are supposed to write stuff that cannot be misinterpreted by the general public, leave out anything in their own rules of engagement that is likely to compromise their own position.
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2012-03-03 12:27
Has anyone asked what her plans and her party's plans are when the Scottish people votes YES for independence? Will they all resign or metamorphous into an likeminded independent politician who was only "carrying out their orders" but really had only the good of the Scottish people in their hearts..Aye Right.
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2012-03-03 13:02
They do not have a fall back position - Westminstre does not let them as it would be seen as a sign of 'weakness'.
The sad thing is these numpties think that by attacking Alex Salmond they are attacking the push for independence. They continue to fail to realise that Alex Salmond is brilliantly riding the wave of Scottish opinion as a politician - in the mean while the SNP Government is delivering polices and benefits to the Scottish people that are tangible rather than 'jam tomorrow'.
The Unionist's have had since 2007 to come up with a form of devo-max that addresses the wishes and desires of the Scottish people in this they have failed pitifully. Calman and the current ammendment bill are not about Scotland's interests but stopping the SNP - the wishes of the Scottish people are being ignored.
I don't quite see why Malcolm Chisolm continues to support a two question referendum on the grounds 'Labour can be trusted to deliver' as they are unlikely to be anywhere number 10 Downing Street in the forseeable future and his real boss is hand in glove with the Tories and Libdems over blocking all attempts to increase Scottish autonomy.
The sad thing is these numpties think that by attacking Alex Salmond they are attacking the push for independence. They continue to fail to realise that Alex Salmond is brilliantly riding the wave of Scottish opinion as a politician - in the mean while the SNP Government is delivering polices and benefits to the Scottish people that are tangible rather than 'jam tomorrow'.
The Unionist's have had since 2007 to come up with a form of devo-max that addresses the wishes and desires of the Scottish people in this they have failed pitifully. Calman and the current ammendment bill are not about Scotland's interests but stopping the SNP - the wishes of the Scottish people are being ignored.
I don't quite see why Malcolm Chisolm continues to support a two question referendum on the grounds 'Labour can be trusted to deliver' as they are unlikely to be anywhere number 10 Downing Street in the forseeable future and his real boss is hand in glove with the Tories and Libdems over blocking all attempts to increase Scottish autonomy.
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2012-03-03 12:41
I mean she is one big joke, but I had to laugh when I heard that Lamont is "ready to fight for Scotland" Is she hiring Joyce as her trainer?
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2012-03-03 12:53
Apparently she's ready to fight because it's time to stop saying sorry. I don't remember them starting, to be honest.
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2012-03-03 20:10
I think I must have been asleep when all those Labourites were apologising for past mistakes. I do like to hibenate in winter
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2012-03-03 12:51
Newsnet should take a leaf out of the MSM book and have titled this article - Lamont Accused !.
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2012-03-03 13:05
o/t
Maybe some of you would like to make comments on this BBC blog.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17218635
I notice that my nation, nor Cornwall figure at all in this piece on so-called Britishness.
Yours,
Maybe some of you would like to make comments on this BBC blog.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17218635
I notice that my nation, nor Cornwall figure at all in this piece on so-called Britishness.
Yours,
#
2012-03-03 13:34
Looking at the comments, it appears that Britishness means that, however predominant your culture actually is, you must always view it as under threat from foreigners. It also seems that the English think Englishness is Britishness, which should surprise no one. Time we took our threatening culture out of the equation and left them to it.
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2012-03-03 13:43
I've been watching the BBC Wales program - The Story of Wales - fascinating stuff especially the latest one which evidenced the English Crown's deviousness about Wales and its usurpation of Welsh Rule of Law to force itself on Wales.
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2012-03-03 13:44
Surely the purpose of this blog is to find more ideas for the propaganda machine.
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2012-03-03 14:02
WS - Here's one that got 43 minus votes:
Being Scottish I have never felt even slightly British.
British has always seemed to be an English empirical construct that had its zenith during the second world war.
What I find fascinating is the inwardly facing self examination that the British establishment is being forced into because of the Scottish desire for self-determination.
Being Scottish I have never felt even slightly British.
British has always seemed to be an English empirical construct that had its zenith during the second world war.
What I find fascinating is the inwardly facing self examination that the British establishment is being forced into because of the Scottish desire for self-determination.
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2012-03-03 14:34
I think this whole BBC push on national identity in its programmes is more due to the Queens jubilee and the Olympics this year rather than a reaction to what happening up here.
Of course, I'm sure the unionist parties are quite happy with this programming from the EBC.
Of course, I'm sure the unionist parties are quite happy with this programming from the EBC.
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2012-03-03 14:48
Britishness is a veneer that the BBC insists in using in its programmes purely as a political strategy. How many times have we heard a slip of the tongue when their presenters say England and correct themselves to say British. The whole concept is not natural. It is not the default position.
As soon as you go abroad it's all about Englishness from the foreigners because that is what has been brainwashed into them.
As soon as you go abroad it's all about Englishness from the foreigners because that is what has been brainwashed into them.
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2012-03-03 22:41
British by law nothing else, Scottish is what I am and British = English and I am thankful for that as it ensures being Scottish is distinct.
Very handy when doing business with other nations. I find myself more welcome.
Very handy when doing business with other nations. I find myself more welcome.
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2012-03-03 23:56
Agreed. Many more doors open for me when fellow Europeans perceive the difference that I am NOT English.
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2012-03-03 14:06
Lamont"She will say:
"And we will not lose the fight to make Scotland a fairer, more open, more just place to live in, because that is why we exist."
Sorry,your party had all the post-war years to do that,and MUCH more recently--13 years of an overall majority at Westminster, with 4 (?) years in coalition in Scotland with the Lib Dems.
What happened during these halcyon years? Very little.The kids are still going to bed half educated,half fed and with very little pride in the Society in which they live.
Sorry Johann you've had your chance,your party has contributed----yes,but oh dear it's been like pulling teeth in the past 68 post-war years---YES 68 !!
Independence is the only way----make our own decisions,and prioritise in everyting,with our own cash.
We'll survive.
The PM told us that 3 weeks ago,with all the Civil Service resources in London advising him.
"And we will not lose the fight to make Scotland a fairer, more open, more just place to live in, because that is why we exist."
Sorry,your party had all the post-war years to do that,and MUCH more recently--13 years of an overall majority at Westminster, with 4 (?) years in coalition in Scotland with the Lib Dems.
What happened during these halcyon years? Very little.The kids are still going to bed half educated,half fed and with very little pride in the Society in which they live.
Sorry Johann you've had your chance,your party has contributed----yes,but oh dear it's been like pulling teeth in the past 68 post-war years---YES 68 !!
Independence is the only way----make our own decisions,and prioritise in everyting,with our own cash.
We'll survive.
The PM told us that 3 weeks ago,with all the Civil Service resources in London advising him.
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2012-03-03 14:08
O/T, butnow the LibDems have joined in the competition for leading Devo Max:
Kennedy seizes leading role in battle for union
Michael Settle
UK Political Editor (Herald)
CHARLES Kennedy has broken cover on the constitutional battle facing Scotland and made clear his intention of playing a leading role in the campaign to save the United Kingdom.
(Note, blames "SNP negativity")
Kennedy seizes leading role in battle for union
Michael Settle
UK Political Editor (Herald)
CHARLES Kennedy has broken cover on the constitutional battle facing Scotland and made clear his intention of playing a leading role in the campaign to save the United Kingdom.
(Note, blames "SNP negativity")
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2012-03-03 14:25
Come on now, Dundonian West, you're not being fair to Johann. McConnell's Labour/LibDem coalition in Holyrood did their best to make Scotland fairer to the UK, by returning £1.6 Billion of our pocket money to Westminster, rather than selfishly spending it on housing, health or education ... oh, wait ...
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2012-03-03 14:33
proudscot.Thanks for putting it so succintly.
I had a go yesterday---
Miliband: "the UK is a redistributive union."
Yes? The redistribution is all in one direction.Fine he knows it.
Cheers.
I had a go yesterday---
Miliband: "the UK is a redistributive union."
Yes? The redistribution is all in one direction.Fine he knows it.
Cheers.
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2012-03-03 15:19
If Scotland becomes independent then I would like to see us reclaim the Saltire from the Union Jack. Now wouldn't that cause a stoochie?
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2012-03-03 20:13
Katie if the Irish were to reclaim their flag too from the Union flag, it would be even better. I think only the English flag would remain.
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2012-03-03 23:19
True, Teri. We've never figured on the so called Union flag nor on the 'British' Royal Standard come to that.
If the redundant harp of Ireland were removed from that, and the Scottish lion rampant also, post your independence, they'd be nothing but England again.
But wait up - England has never been legally defined. Perhaps the whole place is a legal chimera after all...
If the redundant harp of Ireland were removed from that, and the Scottish lion rampant also, post your independence, they'd be nothing but England again.
But wait up - England has never been legally defined. Perhaps the whole place is a legal chimera after all...
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2012-03-03 15:19
A decent article by Melanie Ward over at LabourHame today about Labour's need to attract more women into politics.
www.labourhame.com/.../3016
Perhaps not surprisingly though, no mention of the recent bullying and intimidation tactics that appear to be "par for the course" for Labour these days, particularly against women.
I'll be interested to see what the usual denizens of Labour Hame have to say on that subject......or will there be a resounding silence ?
Still on Labour Hame.....does anyone else here think that Nigel Ranter is an SNP plant ?
His comments over on that site are truly amazing in their stupidity: from claiming that Americans regret getting their independence and want to return to London rule to his astonishing recent statement that (and I paraphrase here) poor people's last crumb of comfort as they live out their lives in depression and unemployment is the thought that their country (UK) has a permanent seat on the UN security council !
As I said elsewhere, Mr Ranter would have huge comedic value if it wasn't clear that he really believes this kind of nonsense.
Apologies for the references to a "rival" web site, but you cannot believe just how good that site is for cheering me up :-)
Jim
www.labourhame.com/.../3016
Perhaps not surprisingly though, no mention of the recent bullying and intimidation tactics that appear to be "par for the course" for Labour these days, particularly against women.
I'll be interested to see what the usual denizens of Labour Hame have to say on that subject......or will there be a resounding silence ?
Still on Labour Hame.....does anyone else here think that Nigel Ranter is an SNP plant ?
His comments over on that site are truly amazing in their stupidity: from claiming that Americans regret getting their independence and want to return to London rule to his astonishing recent statement that (and I paraphrase here) poor people's last crumb of comfort as they live out their lives in depression and unemployment is the thought that their country (UK) has a permanent seat on the UN security council !
As I said elsewhere, Mr Ranter would have huge comedic value if it wasn't clear that he really believes this kind of nonsense.
Apologies for the references to a "rival" web site, but you cannot believe just how good that site is for cheering me up :-)
Jim
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2012-03-03 22:45
Curran and Lamont were held up as examples that women should aspire to. These women hold no marketability in terms of transference in media particularly TV.
Women were decreed as far more emotional and by suggestion more attached to the Union. I seriously doubt this. I want to protect my family however rationally this can only be done and achieved through independence. Put simply women are not as daft.
This chick says "aye" and "bring it on"
Saor alba
Women were decreed as far more emotional and by suggestion more attached to the Union. I seriously doubt this. I want to protect my family however rationally this can only be done and achieved through independence. Put simply women are not as daft.
This chick says "aye" and "bring it on"
Saor alba
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2012-03-03 15:27
Hi Prof Curtis has laid in on the line that Ms Lamont must take this opportunity to make a decisive speech which will capyure the imagination of the labour voter and the wider audience.
First impressions he says are vital.
It's Lamentable Lamont or it's all systems go!
They are running late Blubber says they are ushering in the audience into the middle seats to make the hall look full. Not the throng that was expected apparently.
Well its all about to kick off.
First impressions he says are vital.
It's Lamentable Lamont or it's all systems go!
They are running late Blubber says they are ushering in the audience into the middle seats to make the hall look full. Not the throng that was expected apparently.
Well its all about to kick off.
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2012-03-03 15:34
I noticed that Reporting Cats up a Tree showed the half full hall for the LibDems last night but there was no shot of the Labour audience.
#
2012-03-03 17:01
Maybe there was not a labour audience? Or not enough of one to be worthwhile showing.
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2012-03-03 15:35
Of course Nigel Ranter is an SNP plant on Labour Hame. It's all tongue in cheek stuff but right on the button.
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2012-03-03 15:48
Listening to Johann Lamont at Conference, she might even have a wee tear in her eye - or glint of malice? talking about Labour's Fairness.
Deary me.
What I liked best though, was Brian Taylor announcing to the world (or BBC2 viewers at any rate) that the reason for the late start was the activists had to go and shoo members into the centre of the hall so it didn't look so empty:-)
Brilliant.
Deary me.
What I liked best though, was Brian Taylor announcing to the world (or BBC2 viewers at any rate) that the reason for the late start was the activists had to go and shoo members into the centre of the hall so it didn't look so empty:-)
Brilliant.
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2012-03-03 15:51
She comes across as one very bitter lady - I am cringing at her amateur dramatics. Time for the tennis.
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2012-03-03 16:04
Quoting Massacre1965:
Second sentence in, and Alex Salmond got his first mention. She really is visceral in her hatred of the First Minister.
She comes across as one very bitter lady - I am cringing at her amateur dramatics. Time for the tennis.
Second sentence in, and Alex Salmond got his first mention. She really is visceral in her hatred of the First Minister.
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2012-03-03 16:06
Lament - 'It's time for Labour to stop apologising for its past mistakes'
Anyone spot the obvious flaw in that statement?
Anyone spot the obvious flaw in that statement?
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2012-03-03 16:20
Quoting brusque:
Of course. She's the leader of Scottish Labour so she should be FM, not that upstart Alex Salmond.
She really is visceral in her hatred of the First Minister.
Of course. She's the leader of Scottish Labour so she should be FM, not that upstart Alex Salmond.
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2012-03-03 15:56
Seriously O/T but I don't know where to put this - did you know that the UK currently holds the six-monthly presidency of the ECHR?
guardian.co.uk/.../...
(Guardian story) If the UK approves that Strasburg is starting to respect the "leeway granted to national jurisdictions", the UKSC is apparently going precisely in the opposite direction re. the Scottish jurisdiction. With the UK mooted to be about to leave the ECHR or at least restrict appeals to the body, this looks like a problem for Scotland.
"There are signs already in recent Strasbourg judgments of greater explicit recognition being granted to what is termed the "margin of appreciation" – the leeway granted to national jurisdictions to interpret cases according to their own legal traditions."
Do people/Newsnet consider this is significant?
guardian.co.uk/.../...
(Guardian story) If the UK approves that Strasburg is starting to respect the "leeway granted to national jurisdictions", the UKSC is apparently going precisely in the opposite direction re. the Scottish jurisdiction. With the UK mooted to be about to leave the ECHR or at least restrict appeals to the body, this looks like a problem for Scotland.
"There are signs already in recent Strasbourg judgments of greater explicit recognition being granted to what is termed the "margin of appreciation" – the leeway granted to national jurisdictions to interpret cases according to their own legal traditions."
Do people/Newsnet consider this is significant?
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2012-03-03 16:36
It's another facet of the overall neoliberal plan to remove accountability and regulation from government and business.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power" - Benito Mussolini.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power" - Benito Mussolini.
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2012-03-03 16:12
Well jam tomorrow next year before we get jam tomorrow.
A. Darling & G. Brown etal to join the Union team.
Well she presented the information well enough as a performance but it contained nothing new.
It was a rant at the SNP with lots of smears. Cuts are all the SNP's fault.
Aye I'll stick with 'The First Eck'
A. Darling & G. Brown etal to join the Union team.
Well she presented the information well enough as a performance but it contained nothing new.
It was a rant at the SNP with lots of smears. Cuts are all the SNP's fault.
Aye I'll stick with 'The First Eck'
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2012-03-03 16:15
Labour and Lamont do not merit the amount of coverage they receive from the broadcast and print media waxing lyrical about them and what they used to stand for. This party doesnt deserve such positive coverage, the msm are living in la la land if they ever think this party will somehow find their moral compass overnight. This party have been forced into where they now find themselves. Out of power North and South of the border and for good reasons.
That they have the gall to talk about unemployment in Scotland instigated by their mismanagement of the economy whilst in power at Westminster really is delusional stuff. The gap between rich and poor widened under their reign. So Lamont can pull the other one with her fairness and equality for all guff. I too can never remember them saying sorry for losing last May. But then if they dont understand why they lost in the first place, how in Gods name can they apologise. No clue whatsoever they have. Ed certainly still doesnt get Scotland with his Dudley and Dundee rubbish. What about Dublin then!
Labour as a party is in crisis who have had til kingdom come to create a better Scotland for us all and failed. Instead, under their Unionist watch it has steadily got worse as has our prospects. They have nothing to offer the people but empty soundbites as theyve been caught out for the charlatans they are, only interested in their own enrichment at the Westminster trough. This party isnt capable of rising from the ashes and putting Scotland first. We're wasting our time and our energy on them. Theyre dead as the proverbial dodo and the sooner we are rid of them and their ilk the better Scotland will prosper. Theyre holding us back big time. Lets put them out this May.
That they have the gall to talk about unemployment in Scotland instigated by their mismanagement of the economy whilst in power at Westminster really is delusional stuff. The gap between rich and poor widened under their reign. So Lamont can pull the other one with her fairness and equality for all guff. I too can never remember them saying sorry for losing last May. But then if they dont understand why they lost in the first place, how in Gods name can they apologise. No clue whatsoever they have. Ed certainly still doesnt get Scotland with his Dudley and Dundee rubbish. What about Dublin then!
Labour as a party is in crisis who have had til kingdom come to create a better Scotland for us all and failed. Instead, under their Unionist watch it has steadily got worse as has our prospects. They have nothing to offer the people but empty soundbites as theyve been caught out for the charlatans they are, only interested in their own enrichment at the Westminster trough. This party isnt capable of rising from the ashes and putting Scotland first. We're wasting our time and our energy on them. Theyre dead as the proverbial dodo and the sooner we are rid of them and their ilk the better Scotland will prosper. Theyre holding us back big time. Lets put them out this May.
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2012-03-03 20:08
Hurrah and very well put EdinScot.I particularly liked your ref (I liked it all actually) to the interconnection s between peoples of these islands. Ed's speech omitted the Republic of Ireland and every other country where folks have come to Scotland, settled and became Scots. My Italian born hairdresser springs to mind as a grand Scot.
Passionately and very well put.
Passionately and very well put.
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2012-03-03 16:17
RE : Lamont’s speech
Johann Lamont says rather than use the word ‘progressive’ she would prefer the word ‘fair.
Johann- Is it FAIR that the Labour Government played to the gallery of big business and bankrupted the country – instead of looking after our vulnerable peoples.
Shame on you Johann Lamont, your mocking sanctimonious tones fool no-one.
The labour party of today makes me feel sick to the pit of my stomach, and my father who campaigned for this ‘people’s party’ would be distressed if he was witnessing the spectacle of today’s Labour Party.
I’m so disgusted.
Johann Lamont says rather than use the word ‘progressive’ she would prefer the word ‘fair.
Johann- Is it FAIR that the Labour Government played to the gallery of big business and bankrupted the country – instead of looking after our vulnerable peoples.
Shame on you Johann Lamont, your mocking sanctimonious tones fool no-one.
The labour party of today makes me feel sick to the pit of my stomach, and my father who campaigned for this ‘people’s party’ would be distressed if he was witnessing the spectacle of today’s Labour Party.
I’m so disgusted.
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2012-03-03 16:22
Johann claims that Labour can now stop apologising for their mistakes of the past. Which mistakes did she mean. I have no recollection of any mistakes which Labour have confronted. If Labour have acknowledged their mistakes then can we have the list of mistakes that they are so kindly forgiving themselves for.
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2012-03-03 16:58
Probably she meant the mistakes that led to the damage to the banking crisis and economic meltdown. After all the bankers have said it is time for them to stop apologising so we all lnow how Labour takes its lead from the bankers - don't we?
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2012-03-03 20:15
Damn LW, there's never a tissue around when you need to wipe red wine from the screen
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2012-03-03 17:54
Perhaps she could be so kind as to list all Labour's mistakes so that the general population have it straight from the horse's mouth and be completely aware of what they are.
There is a feeling that there are too many people who would be willing to run back into the arms of Labour irrespective of the disaster they have brought on Scotland.
There is a feeling that there are too many people who would be willing to run back into the arms of Labour irrespective of the disaster they have brought on Scotland.
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2012-03-03 16:27
Watching the post speech interviews, i'm actually embarressed at the quality of Labour spokespersons. Is 'radical the new party word?
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2012-03-03 16:31
Ronald Villiers just said that "we insist that Labour insists on the highest standards"! :)
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2012-03-03 16:46
Best clip of the whole thing was the interview with the journos.
I was impressed with Andy Nicol from The Sun.
I was impressed with Andy Nicol from The Sun.
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2012-03-03 16:54
SNP blamed for shortage of blankets!
"NHS patients are being forced to share blankets as a result of SNP government cuts, Scottish Labour health spokeswoman Jackie Baillie has claimed.
She said concerned constituents had contacted her about the issue at the Royal Alexandra hospital in Paisley.
NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde said there was "no truth" in the claims."
Jackie Baillie didn't mention a thing about her party's,and the Tory/Lib Dem funding cuts to Scotland.
We're handed a slice of the shrinking cake and told,"Get on with it".
People have long memories,and our share of the cake is being eroded year by year by an ever increasing demand by NHS Scotland.
Scotland is a world leader in medical research----and rightly so.
However, care at the 'coalface' is under severe strain,and we're doing our best,given the SEVERE financial restraints coming up from Westminster.
Unionist Tory and Unionist Labour.(Spot the difference).
"NHS patients are being forced to share blankets as a result of SNP government cuts, Scottish Labour health spokeswoman Jackie Baillie has claimed.
She said concerned constituents had contacted her about the issue at the Royal Alexandra hospital in Paisley.
NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde said there was "no truth" in the claims."
Jackie Baillie didn't mention a thing about her party's,and the Tory/Lib Dem funding cuts to Scotland.
We're handed a slice of the shrinking cake and told,"Get on with it".
People have long memories,and our share of the cake is being eroded year by year by an ever increasing demand by NHS Scotland.
Scotland is a world leader in medical research----and rightly so.
However, care at the 'coalface' is under severe strain,and we're doing our best,given the SEVERE financial restraints coming up from Westminster.
Unionist Tory and Unionist Labour.(Spot the difference).
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2012-03-03 17:51
What we should be reminding people is the reason for the cuts - LABOUR. The wrecked the economy and in my region when they ran the council they almost bankrupt it. Now we're facing cuts at council level too. What is their solution usual Labour spend, spend, spend. That's how they got us in this mess in the first place.
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2012-03-03 17:52
Greater Glasgow and Clyde Health Board said there was "no truth" in the MSP's remarks regarding the sharing of blankets.
news.stv.tv/.../...
news.stv.tv/.../...
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2012-03-03 20:39
Jackie Baillie's judgement has been completely distorted by the fact that her friend Wendy had to resign. She blames the SNP for that and, it seems, she will never forgive them and will take every opportunity to do them down.
Jackie, wasn't it the fault of Wendy that she got herself into that position?
Jackie, wasn't it the fault of Wendy that she got herself into that position?
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2012-03-03 16:54
Lamont's view on corporation tax is bizarre. She repeated her support of social equality and fairness half a dozen times so I'm really surprised she can't see that reducing corporation tax can be used as a means of creating jobs. She's very obviously anti business.
#
2012-03-03 17:01
She's not anti business, Wee Scamp. She's anti Scottish business.
The thought of an international company choosing Scotland to invest in, because of its lower corporation tax, is too much for her southern masters to swallow.
The thought of an international company choosing Scotland to invest in, because of its lower corporation tax, is too much for her southern masters to swallow.
#
2012-03-03 19:19
Is she? Her party was anti-Tesco tax, or is a Labour contributor given special treatment?
#
2012-03-03 17:08
The Caird Hall less than a third full on both days, its accoustics as hollow and empty as the politicians braying into them, Labour's Scottish region with its head not so much stuck in the sand as up its own backside and this is the party that is going to save Scotland from its self by keeping it the 'Union'.
The toxic three (Labour, Libdems, Tory) constantly miss the point with respect to Scotland and have, since 2007, focussed on Alex Salmond rather than the frequently expressed wish by the Scottish electorate for a new confederal Union where we pay our own way and put in a share towards services such as defence.
The impact of this is that Westminster would return to being the English parliament along with the out moded and undemocratic House of Lords. The UK would be run as a unicameral body along the lines of a British Isles Council.
All the likes of Milliband, Clegg and Cameron are doing with their 'jam tomorrow line' and telling us Scots that the man we elected First Minister is a big bad bogeyman and we are naughty to think we can get away with it, is loosing the argument without the SNP having to say or do anything.
Milliband spoke to Labour Scottish Region activists yesterday, Labour's West of Scotland 'bastion' is in open civil war which has everything to do with self interest than Glasgow and environs, across Scottish Councils up coming council candidates for Labour are already in arms about the compulsory levy on their 'salary' if elected and the big brother performance measuring which is being imposed all of which he ignored with his mewling little 'speech'.
What the toxic three just do not get is that Scots are not going to be 'told' by Oxbridge millionaires, whose self interest shines brighter than their polices, what is best for us and the more they do the further Scotland slips through their fingers.
The toxic three (Labour, Libdems, Tory) constantly miss the point with respect to Scotland and have, since 2007, focussed on Alex Salmond rather than the frequently expressed wish by the Scottish electorate for a new confederal Union where we pay our own way and put in a share towards services such as defence.
The impact of this is that Westminster would return to being the English parliament along with the out moded and undemocratic House of Lords. The UK would be run as a unicameral body along the lines of a British Isles Council.
All the likes of Milliband, Clegg and Cameron are doing with their 'jam tomorrow line' and telling us Scots that the man we elected First Minister is a big bad bogeyman and we are naughty to think we can get away with it, is loosing the argument without the SNP having to say or do anything.
Milliband spoke to Labour Scottish Region activists yesterday, Labour's West of Scotland 'bastion' is in open civil war which has everything to do with self interest than Glasgow and environs, across Scottish Councils up coming council candidates for Labour are already in arms about the compulsory levy on their 'salary' if elected and the big brother performance measuring which is being imposed all of which he ignored with his mewling little 'speech'.
What the toxic three just do not get is that Scots are not going to be 'told' by Oxbridge millionaires, whose self interest shines brighter than their polices, what is best for us and the more they do the further Scotland slips through their fingers.
#
2012-03-03 17:17
It does appear that the new strategy is to attack Alex Salmond personally as portray him (as MJM should soundly puts) the big bad bogeyman.
They cannot think of one single way to put forward a positive case for the union thats actually backed up with policies and not empty rhetoric that has delivered diddly squat for decades.
What poor deluded fools.
They cannot think of one single way to put forward a positive case for the union thats actually backed up with policies and not empty rhetoric that has delivered diddly squat for decades.
What poor deluded fools.
#
2012-03-03 17:09
YES Johann,you're dead right with this one. "-----there is one thing we in this country are good at - spotting a conman when we see one."
I'm fair enjoying this,but I think the Mods may have me in their sights!!
Bless them.
I'm fair enjoying this,but I think the Mods may have me in their sights!!
Bless them.
#
2012-03-03 18:01
"there is one thing we in this country are good at - spotting a conman when we see one."
Very good, Johann, you're nearly there...now look at the results of the 2010 election...is it sinking in yet?
Very good, Johann, you're nearly there...now look at the results of the 2010 election...is it sinking in yet?
#
2012-03-03 22:35
I particularly loved the part:
"This is not just a labour party straining to cope with increased demand and fewer resources, this is a labour party which is in danger of crumbling around us"
"And with the SNP can't even get the basics rights"
I think that's quite true, don't you?, while I don't truly understand the last part.
"This is not just a labour party straining to cope with increased demand and fewer resources, this is a labour party which is in danger of crumbling around us"
"And with the SNP can't even get the basics rights"
I think that's quite true, don't you?, while I don't truly understand the last part.
#
2012-03-03 17:53
was it me or was the labour party just talking to themselves (may it carry on lol) in dwindled numbers there was more labour mp, msps, councillors and spin doctors in the audience than any real member of the public when they clapped and cheered it also only came from that bunch obviously facts elude the labour party because everything that was said were either answered and obviously not taken in (they know the answer but the truth hurts so they ignore it and carry on in denial) or a lie!
#
2012-03-03 18:00
Brian's blog on the BBC website says "Ms Lamont said that people occasionally questioned why the top names in the party tended to drift to Westminster, rather than Holyrood. She was speaking, she said, about "the big beasts - or men as I call them".
It drew laughter but the trouble is I think she really means it.
It drew laughter but the trouble is I think she really means it.
#
2012-03-03 19:57
BB:
"There are relatively few gags in Johann Lamont's conference speech but one in particular generates raucous laughter from at least half the hall."
I believe he technically meant 1/4 of the hall as it was already half empty. Or maybe he was telling the truth and actually everyone laughed.
"There are relatively few gags in Johann Lamont's conference speech but one in particular generates raucous laughter from at least half the hall."
I believe he technically meant 1/4 of the hall as it was already half empty. Or maybe he was telling the truth and actually everyone laughed.
#
2012-03-03 18:14
Instead of 'Things can only get better', maybe this tune should be the Unionists farewell.
www.youtube.com/.../
www.youtube.com/.../
#
2012-03-03 18:26
Quoting Juteman:
---------------------------------------
I have this very 'single' in my collection in the attic. about 50 years old - not me!
That's about the last time Labour had real integrity.
Instead of 'Things can only get better', maybe this tune should be the Unionists farewell.
www.youtube.com/.../
---------------------------------------
I have this very 'single' in my collection in the attic. about 50 years old - not me!
That's about the last time Labour had real integrity.
#
2012-03-03 18:34
I think that tune has the right mix of melancholy. Glance back to the 'perfect' 50's and 60's, but realise the future is brand new.
I can see lots of Labour folk listening to tunes like that, and wondering where it all went wrong. :)
I can see lots of Labour folk listening to tunes like that, and wondering where it all went wrong. :)
#
2012-03-03 19:07
bbc.co.uk/.../...
another nice biased bbc article there, needless to say, no mention of Glasgow council. I don't know why I keep reading them but a few years ago the doctor said I had low blood pressure so maybe the bbcs helping to balance it out for me.
another nice biased bbc article there, needless to say, no mention of Glasgow council. I don't know why I keep reading them but a few years ago the doctor said I had low blood pressure so maybe the bbcs helping to balance it out for me.
#
2012-03-03 19:09
Sorry, also the titles perfect, Lamont says 'stop saying sorry' That'll be her tough anti-bullying stance then....
#
2012-03-03 22:46
Pardon me asking, but when have they say sorry before?
How can something be stopped if it hasn't started yet?
How can something be stopped if it hasn't started yet?
#
2012-03-03 19:24
You wait ages for an idiot to come along, and then you get two at once. Lamont and Moore. What a double act. Thank goodness the Jags won today, otherwise I would be into our national drink again.
#
2012-03-03 22:49
Quoting alexb:
:-)
2 out of three ain't bad!
You wait ages for an idiot to come along, and then you get two at once. Lamont and Moore. What a double act. Thank goodness the Jags won today, otherwise I would be into our national drink again.
:-)
2 out of three ain't bad!
#
2012-03-03 19:28
Not that I share Alex Massie's politics, but he does write well.
spectator.co.uk/.../...
"Ms Lamont says she's not old or new but rather "Real Labour". Like the Real IRA, this is an organisation that's not yet come to grips with a changed world in which old certainties have been dismantled and ancient impossibilities are made almost possible. Neither old nor new, Ms Lamont is instead Dinosaur Labour."
spectator.co.uk/.../...
"Ms Lamont says she's not old or new but rather "Real Labour". Like the Real IRA, this is an organisation that's not yet come to grips with a changed world in which old certainties have been dismantled and ancient impossibilities are made almost possible. Neither old nor new, Ms Lamont is instead Dinosaur Labour."
#
2012-03-03 20:03
Dinosaur Labour..... I like that. He's right though. I began to wonder if she was Michael Foot's love child.
#
2012-03-03 19:36
And this weeks top contender for scare story of the week is that old favorite "Jackieeee Ballieeeee", she now claims patients are having to share blankets in a Glasgow hospital, even though the hospital says it never happened.
But why would the truth stop her !!!
But why would the truth stop her !!!
#
2012-03-03 19:52
I'm a nurse and I can tell you that in 11 years working in Glasgow in various wards and hospitals I have never seen or heard of anyone sharing blankets between patients. The whole idea of sharing blankets between patients doesn't even make sense. Are they under the same blanket or taking turns each to use it??? Jackie Baillie is setting herself up for a massive fall with this one.
Shooting this one down is so easy its not even funny. No nurse would ever share a blanket between patients because it increases the risk of cross-infection, is against infection control policy, is bad practice and is just against plain common sense.
One thing I would say is that sometimes there are shortages of linen particularly at night. But this is nothing new and has been an ongoing issue for (and probably before) the decade I have worked for NHSGGC. The reason for this is because there is usually only one laundry delivery per day. You will most probably get very few blankets compared to sheets, pillow cases and gowns (probably because blankets take up far more room in a laundry bag). So by the end of the day you will have precious few blankets and believe it or not getting more isn't normally a simple case of going down to central laundry and getting some.
If a patient can't get a blanket it has nothing to do with the policies of whichever government is in office. It has far more to do with the working practices of the hospital. It has being going on for years and even if there are shortages, noone would ever ask patients to share.
Shooting this one down is so easy its not even funny. No nurse would ever share a blanket between patients because it increases the risk of cross-infection, is against infection control policy, is bad practice and is just against plain common sense.
One thing I would say is that sometimes there are shortages of linen particularly at night. But this is nothing new and has been an ongoing issue for (and probably before) the decade I have worked for NHSGGC. The reason for this is because there is usually only one laundry delivery per day. You will most probably get very few blankets compared to sheets, pillow cases and gowns (probably because blankets take up far more room in a laundry bag). So by the end of the day you will have precious few blankets and believe it or not getting more isn't normally a simple case of going down to central laundry and getting some.
If a patient can't get a blanket it has nothing to do with the policies of whichever government is in office. It has far more to do with the working practices of the hospital. It has being going on for years and even if there are shortages, noone would ever ask patients to share.
#
2012-03-03 20:29
I think the there must be a rota so that when one patient is sleeping another is up and about and vice versa.
How can anyone come away with such utter claptrap and expect it to be believed. The depths Jackie Bailie will go to!
How can anyone come away with such utter claptrap and expect it to be believed. The depths Jackie Bailie will go to!
#
2012-03-04 00:43
I'm a nurse as well and the whole scenario is so bizarre that ??????? I can't even imagine such a situation.Pushing beds together.
Its an outright lie.
Its an outright lie.
#
2012-03-03 20:45
Did the patients pull the beds together Davy or was it bed and blanket sharing? We should be told!
#
2012-03-03 19:53
First this : newsnetscotland.com/.../...
Then this: news.stv.tv/.../...
When will Jackie Bailey be held to account for her vile lies on the Scottish NHS.
Jackie Bailey later claimed it was bed pans she meant.
.
Then this: news.stv.tv/.../...
When will Jackie Bailey be held to account for her vile lies on the Scottish NHS.
Jackie Bailey later claimed it was bed pans she meant.
.
#
2012-03-03 20:05
When will Jackie Bailey be held to account for her vile lies on the Scottish NHS.
When will that question be answered???
When will that question be answered???
#
2012-03-03 20:34
Sharing bedpans could be rather dodgy unless it's only small ersed patients who do or is it turn about?
#
2012-03-03 23:07
I thought the bed pans they use nowadays were these moulded cardboard efforts ?
Can you imagine the conversation between the patients:
[Edited to eliminate images of elimination -NNS Mod Team]
jackie Baillie has to be held to account for this, thats twice in the last few months she's just made up facts to attack the SNP. What;'s this quote she's come out with as well 'even in the good times the SNP were underfunding' " - What ? So we had a minority government elected in 2007, months before the financial crash and all hell was let loose ? Aye right enough Jackie, time to up the medication methinks.
Can you imagine the conversation between the patients:
[Edited to eliminate images of elimination -NNS Mod Team]
jackie Baillie has to be held to account for this, thats twice in the last few months she's just made up facts to attack the SNP. What;'s this quote she's come out with as well 'even in the good times the SNP were underfunding' " - What ? So we had a minority government elected in 2007, months before the financial crash and all hell was let loose ? Aye right enough Jackie, time to up the medication methinks.
#
2012-03-03 23:19
Quoting DonaldMhor:
Can't see the link from here (blocked) however a relative of mine spent 24 hours in the receiving unit of the local hospital last week, staff failed to notice he had a catheter fitted, failed to empty it, fobbed off the families queries, left him unattended, and he is now in a ward which the family cannot visit due to an infection on the ward. One of the few pleasures he has is to watch TV, and he is being charged £5 for 12 hours use of the TV. Even PRISONERS don't get treated like that. UTTERLY SHAMBOLIC!!!
First this : newsnetscotland.com/.../...
Then this: news.stv.tv/.../...
When will Jackie Bailey be held to account for her vile lies on the Scottish NHS.
Jackie Bailey later claimed it was bed pans she meant.
.
Can't see the link from here (blocked) however a relative of mine spent 24 hours in the receiving unit of the local hospital last week, staff failed to notice he had a catheter fitted, failed to empty it, fobbed off the families queries, left him unattended, and he is now in a ward which the family cannot visit due to an infection on the ward. One of the few pleasures he has is to watch TV, and he is being charged £5 for 12 hours use of the TV. Even PRISONERS don't get treated like that. UTTERLY SHAMBOLIC!!!
#
2012-03-03 20:00
Having gritted my teeth and watched the BBC coverage from Dundee, I am filled with horror. If Scotland fails to vote for independence in 2014, and lets Labour back in to power again, then we truly deserve all we get. It has now become the nightmare scenario, Scotland votes no in referendum. Can you imagine the humiliation that will be poured on our heads? Can you imagine the glee with which Westminster will beast Scotland?
#
2012-03-03 20:52
Keep calm Big D, we are beside and behind you, to paraphrase General Chesty Puller...were surrounded, they can't get away this time.
#
2012-03-03 20:03
I have the same problem as the hospitals. The last time I asked the wife to share the blanket, her laughter went on for hours.
#
2012-03-03 20:28
Quoting Mark MacLachlan:
Aye,lets hope she gets the gig as she couldn,t run a menage.
Johann Lamont saves the Union
www.youtube.com/.../
Aye,lets hope she gets the gig as she couldn,t run a menage.
#
2012-03-03 20:37
WThe best bit has been missed out. When pushed Murphy answered 'Whoever the BBC chooses!' Now we know the BBC runs Labour
#
2012-03-03 20:34
If that had been written down it would seem completely innocuous, but when you watch it said out loud... The tone really just says it all, doesn't it?
#
2012-03-03 20:16
It seems the unionist machine is in meltdown. Lets have a commission, or a root and branch review. How about a commission in to the commissions?
Must go the Krankies are on down at the Legion.
Must go the Krankies are on down at the Legion.
#
2012-03-03 20:30
Lamont should certainly not be allowed to get away with this nonsense.
She told the conference: "When the Royal Bank of Scotland goes down, Scotland didn't have to negotiate with foreign governments.
"We didn't have to endure years negotiations, as the Greeks are going through. The help was automatic - given within hours.
Of course it was you ridiculous woman. RBS was owned primarily by big City fund managers and regulated by a trio of London based Govt agencies.
Lamont went on to say "What happened with the RBS bailout wasn't about Scotland's weakness - it was about the union's strength."
Absolute tosh. It was the weakness of the union's regulatory system and the greed of the union's glorious financial services sector that caused it.
She told the conference: "When the Royal Bank of Scotland goes down, Scotland didn't have to negotiate with foreign governments.
"We didn't have to endure years negotiations, as the Greeks are going through. The help was automatic - given within hours.
Of course it was you ridiculous woman. RBS was owned primarily by big City fund managers and regulated by a trio of London based Govt agencies.
Lamont went on to say "What happened with the RBS bailout wasn't about Scotland's weakness - it was about the union's strength."
Absolute tosh. It was the weakness of the union's regulatory system and the greed of the union's glorious financial services sector that caused it.
#
2012-03-03 20:43
It smacks of the distortions Labour created over the credit crunch comparing an indepenedent Scotland to the position of Ireland and Iceland. Now these countries are coming out of the mire, but the UK is still in a dodgy position.
#
2012-03-03 20:35
All that was missing from her "car crash" of a speech was the old David Steel phrase, "Go back to your constituences and prepare for Government" Aye right.
#
2012-03-03 20:41
Lamont siad "What happened with the RBS bailout wasn't about Scotland's weakness - it was about the union's strength." Whit?
Is she trying to say it was a Scottish problem and the Unionsists fixed it. It was Gordon Brown who caused it and who then got us deeper into the shit with the bail out. Had his FSA being monitoring banks as they were meant to, then this would not have happened. If Labour had not been spending £4 for every £3 taken in from taxes, then they deficit wouldnt have been unmanageable even before the RBS trouble.
RBS Scottish? No, Johann, it's a global institution.
Is she trying to say it was a Scottish problem and the Unionsists fixed it. It was Gordon Brown who caused it and who then got us deeper into the shit with the bail out. Had his FSA being monitoring banks as they were meant to, then this would not have happened. If Labour had not been spending £4 for every £3 taken in from taxes, then they deficit wouldnt have been unmanageable even before the RBS trouble.
RBS Scottish? No, Johann, it's a global institution.
#
2012-03-03 21:02
I think everything has been said that can be said about Labour and Ms lamont and Co. Which I know does not amount to a hill of beans and is unlikely to so so for a very long time on their current showing. [No bean jokes boys and girls - play nice]
Let us leave them to fester. They are boring. I mean c'mon - a commission is the 'big' idea! It has been done and look how well that turned out - not.
Who will take part in this commission, give evidence/submissions to it? I should imagine that all the individuals, organisations etc. who, in good faith, gave evidence to Calman will be less than enthusiastic about taking part in any similar process again. A case of: 'Once bitten twice shy'.
What about the FM's speech on Friday. Now that would be worth discussing and make a more positive contribution to the debate in the process.
Let us leave them to fester. They are boring. I mean c'mon - a commission is the 'big' idea! It has been done and look how well that turned out - not.
Who will take part in this commission, give evidence/submissions to it? I should imagine that all the individuals, organisations etc. who, in good faith, gave evidence to Calman will be less than enthusiastic about taking part in any similar process again. A case of: 'Once bitten twice shy'.
What about the FM's speech on Friday. Now that would be worth discussing and make a more positive contribution to the debate in the process.
#
2012-03-03 21:10
The B/S spouted by these people shows the utter contempt in which they hold the Scottish electorate.
Last time I heard drivel like this was from the dregs of the annual eastern European communist party conferences.
Life moves on for most people but clearly not for some.
Last time I heard drivel like this was from the dregs of the annual eastern European communist party conferences.
Life moves on for most people but clearly not for some.
#
2012-03-03 21:19
As a former labour voter, I am forced to admit that I now hold the labour party in total & complete contempt. They are a shabby disgrace and proven self-seekers. They cannot hold a candle to any senior SNP figure when it comes to protecting Scotland's interests.
As long as I live I hope never to see them near power again.
They are shameless, treacherous pigs at the trough.
And did I mention they stand shoulder to shoulder with the Tories now ?
Still, it's behaviour like this & the media's faithful support that fuels my desire to campaign against labour with all my energy and enthusiasm.
The desire for Independence will go on until it is won, whenever it is won. The flame will always burn.
As long as I live I hope never to see them near power again.
They are shameless, treacherous pigs at the trough.
And did I mention they stand shoulder to shoulder with the Tories now ?
Still, it's behaviour like this & the media's faithful support that fuels my desire to campaign against labour with all my energy and enthusiasm.
The desire for Independence will go on until it is won, whenever it is won. The flame will always burn.
#
2012-03-03 21:35
!OT!: SNP Defence Policy
Can anyone help direct me to the SNPs plans for the composition and roles for the Scottish Defence Force, particularly in regard to the protection of oil and nuclear assets? It seems to be a bit thin on the ground, I can find lots of comment, but no actual policy.
Thanks.
Can anyone help direct me to the SNPs plans for the composition and roles for the Scottish Defence Force, particularly in regard to the protection of oil and nuclear assets? It seems to be a bit thin on the ground, I can find lots of comment, but no actual policy.
Thanks.
#
2012-03-03 21:47
Jester - that is because, to some extent, what Scotland will get in ships, aeroplanes and other stuff in the deal. The structure of the future defence force will most like follow a position half way between Norway and Eire.
I wrote a detailed piece on what a Scottish Defence Force could look like based on local resources and SNP policy for Newsnet and on my own blog:
tarffadvertiser.blogspot.com/.../...
I wrote a detailed piece on what a Scottish Defence Force could look like based on local resources and SNP policy for Newsnet and on my own blog:
tarffadvertiser.blogspot.com/.../...
#
2012-03-03 22:08
Quoting Mad Jock McMad:
Thanks, I'll look at that. However I'd hope that the policy is in place, that we have a concept of what our needs and responsibilitie s will be, irrespective of what equipment we are allowed to retain from the deal.
Jester - that is because, to some extent, what Scotland will get in ships, aeroplanes and other stuff in the deal. The structure of the future defence force will most like follow a position half way between Norway and Eire.
I wrote a detailed piece on what a Scottish Defence Force could look like based on local resources and SNP policy for Newsnet and on my own blog:
tarffadvertiser.blogspot.com/.../...
Thanks, I'll look at that. However I'd hope that the policy is in place, that we have a concept of what our needs and responsibilitie s will be, irrespective of what equipment we are allowed to retain from the deal.
#
2012-03-03 23:49
Fascinating blog Mad Jock. You've obviously had a serious look at the SDF issue. Look forward to reading some more.
Cheers for the link.
Cheers for the link.
#
2012-03-03 21:50
Jester while not being able to answer you and interested to know myself. Remember the british think they are an important world power who everyone would like to attack such is their self importance. Scotland has no need of such nonsense. Look at our closest comparable country - Norway. Norway doesn't have an overblown, pompous defence force and it has to defend oil rigs. It looks like our only real threat we have to defend ourselves from is south of the border and their 5th column lackeys.
#
2012-03-03 22:01
Quoting Islegard:
A labour supporting mate mentioned that someone from the SNP was on STV the other night debating defence and in his (biased) opinion, General Sir Mike Jackson wiped the floor with him. To be honest, I'd expect that, Jackson was one of the top men in the field. However I as an SNP supporter am unable to put forward a decent argument if there is nothing to work with.
Coastal defence, naval assets, air capabilities. air-sea rescue, professional or conscript, reserve forces, foreign deployment/training, transfer of personnel...
There's a lot there and no answers. It's our one real weak spot and now we are getting to the nitty gritty of the debate we need to be able to put forward a proper case.
Jester while not being able to answer you and interested to know myself. Remember the british think they are an important world power who everyone would like to attack such is their self importance. Scotland has no need of such nonsense. Look at our closest comparable country - Norway. Norway doesn't have an overblown, pompous defence force and it has to defend oil rigs. It looks like our only real threat we have to defend ourselves from is south of the border and their 5th column lackeys.
A labour supporting mate mentioned that someone from the SNP was on STV the other night debating defence and in his (biased) opinion, General Sir Mike Jackson wiped the floor with him. To be honest, I'd expect that, Jackson was one of the top men in the field. However I as an SNP supporter am unable to put forward a decent argument if there is nothing to work with.
Coastal defence, naval assets, air capabilities. air-sea rescue, professional or conscript, reserve forces, foreign deployment/training, transfer of personnel...
There's a lot there and no answers. It's our one real weak spot and now we are getting to the nitty gritty of the debate we need to be able to put forward a proper case.
#
2012-03-03 22:18
Defence, or should I say attack, has been the downfall of Britain.
We have squandered billions of pounds and cost the lives of thousands in pursuit of the belief that we can be someone on the world stage.
I don't think that it is a weak spot at all and our stance is perfectly normal.
Norway manages just fine with a similar arrangement.
Tell your Labour mate to take a hike.
We have squandered billions of pounds and cost the lives of thousands in pursuit of the belief that we can be someone on the world stage.
I don't think that it is a weak spot at all and our stance is perfectly normal.
Norway manages just fine with a similar arrangement.
Tell your Labour mate to take a hike.
#
2012-03-03 22:43
Quoting Louperdowg:
Similar to what? As far as I can see there is nothing to compare Norways defence to. We have aspirations listed, but nothing even halfway concrete.
Defence, or should I say attack, has been the downfall of Britain.
We have squandered billions of pounds and cost the lives of thousands in pursuit of the belief that we can be someone on the world stage.
I don't think that it is a weak spot at all and our stance is perfectly normal.
Norway manages just fine with a similar arrangement.
Tell your Labour mate to take a hike.
Similar to what? As far as I can see there is nothing to compare Norways defence to. We have aspirations listed, but nothing even halfway concrete.
#
2012-03-03 23:44
Quoting Jester:
I saw that interview, committed unionists would take away a victory. Anyone listening objectively would not. The point is you either believe Scotland needs the offensive forces of the UK or you believe a defence force similar to most European countries is enough.
Ask your chum why the UK is building navy ships overseas right now. Ask him how many planes the new aircraft carriers can handle and how often the will be under French control.
Quoting Louperdowg:Defence, or should I say attack, has been the downfall of Britain.
We have squandered billions of pounds and cost the lives of thousands in pursuit of the belief that we can be someone on the world stage.
I don't think that it is a weak spot at all and our stance is perfectly normal.
Norway manages just fine with a similar arrangement.
Tell your Labour mate to take a hike.
Similar to what? As far as I can see there is nothing to compare Norways defence to. We have aspirations listed, but nothing even halfway concrete.
I saw that interview, committed unionists would take away a victory. Anyone listening objectively would not. The point is you either believe Scotland needs the offensive forces of the UK or you believe a defence force similar to most European countries is enough.
Ask your chum why the UK is building navy ships overseas right now. Ask him how many planes the new aircraft carriers can handle and how often the will be under French control.
#
2012-03-03 23:52
Quoting govanite:
I think people are getting bogged down. Put the discussion with my mate to one side. Does the SNP have a defence policy which I can read online? If so can someone provide a link?
Quoting Jester:Quoting Louperdowg:Defence, or should I say attack, has been the downfall of Britain.
We have squandered billions of pounds and cost the lives of thousands in pursuit of the belief that we can be someone on the world stage.
I don't think that it is a weak spot at all and our stance is perfectly normal.
Norway manages just fine with a similar arrangement.
Tell your Labour mate to take a hike.
Similar to what? As far as I can see there is nothing to compare Norways defence to. We have aspirations listed, but nothing even halfway concrete.
I saw that interview, committed unionists would take away a victory. Anyone listening objectively would not. The point is you either believe Scotland needs the offensive forces of the UK or you believe a defence force similar to most European countries is enough.
Ask your chum why the UK is building navy ships overseas right now. Ask him how many planes the new aircraft carriers can handle and how often the will be under French control.
I think people are getting bogged down. Put the discussion with my mate to one side. Does the SNP have a defence policy which I can read online? If so can someone provide a link?
#
2012-03-03 23:55
I'd say it's more accurate to state that our future defence requirements will be in a state of flux due to future negotations at the moment. A lot will depend on settlement issues, foreign support and assessment of need. The SG can outline a base requirement at the moment but little else.
#
2012-03-04 00:28
I think his point though is there must be a plan - what is it. I remember reading the SNP plans to keep the Scottish army at current levels. Can anyone provide more info?
#
2012-03-04 00:36
Quoting Islegard:
That's pretty much what I'm asking, yes.
I think his point though is there must be a plan - what is it. I remember reading the SNP plans to keep the Scottish army at current levels. Can anyone provide more info?
That's pretty much what I'm asking, yes.
#
2012-03-04 01:19
Checked out the 2009 whitepaper and didn't see any further details than intent and policy.
#
2012-03-04 01:10
Jester - just ask one question, who are we [Scotland] going to attack?
If you are inclined, ask why not build hospital ships, water tankers and food ships and equip them with caring dedicated people to reach out and build bridges instead of destroying them?
Ok we’ll need a defence force but our neighbours around Scotland seem to have it cracked, so why not us? Are we too daft?
Jackson is a product of a military system - of course he'll win against a civi - he's had a lifetime of playing at it.
However return to q1 and keep pressing your chums - ask them why war is better than peace and have they not had their fill of memorial statues and stones?
If you are inclined, ask why not build hospital ships, water tankers and food ships and equip them with caring dedicated people to reach out and build bridges instead of destroying them?
Ok we’ll need a defence force but our neighbours around Scotland seem to have it cracked, so why not us? Are we too daft?
Jackson is a product of a military system - of course he'll win against a civi - he's had a lifetime of playing at it.
However return to q1 and keep pressing your chums - ask them why war is better than peace and have they not had their fill of memorial statues and stones?
#
2012-03-04 01:16
Quoting Robabody:
I don't know, as no one will tell me what the plans are.
Jester - just ask one question, who are we [Scotland] going to attack?
If you are inclined, ask why not build hospital ships, water tankers and food ships and equip them with caring dedicated people to reach out and build bridges instead of destroying them?
Ok we’ll need a defence force but our neighbours around Scotland seem to have it cracked, so why not us? Are we too daft?
Jackson is a product of a military system - of course he'll win against a civi - he's had a lifetime of playing at it.
However return to q1 and keep pressing your chums - ask them why war is better than peace and have they not had their fill of memorial statues and stones?
I don't know, as no one will tell me what the plans are.
#
2012-03-03 22:14
Quoting Jester:
Do you have information about the current UK Policy and how it relates to Scotland?
Perhaps if you ask your Labour supporting friend what he understands to be the position within the Union, you will not be surprised that he hasn't got a clue. I think it is fair to say that Nationalists are expected to answer every question, but Unionists feel they don't have to.
!OT!: SNP Defence Policy
Can anyone help direct me to the SNPs plans for the composition and roles for the Scottish Defence Force, particularly in regard to the protection of oil and nuclear assets? It seems to be a bit thin on the ground, I can find lots of comment, but no actual policy.
Thanks.
Do you have information about the current UK Policy and how it relates to Scotland?
Perhaps if you ask your Labour supporting friend what he understands to be the position within the Union, you will not be surprised that he hasn't got a clue. I think it is fair to say that Nationalists are expected to answer every question, but Unionists feel they don't have to.
#
2012-03-03 22:41
Quoting brusque:
that's the equivelant of sticking my fingers in my ears and saying "la-la-la- I can't hear you!" Whether he supports the Union is irrelevant.
Quoting Jester:!OT!: SNP Defence Policy
Can anyone help direct me to the SNPs plans for the composition and roles for the Scottish Defence Force, particularly in regard to the protection of oil and nuclear assets? It seems to be a bit thin on the ground, I can find lots of comment, but no actual policy.
Thanks.
Do you have information about the current UK Policy and how it relates to Scotland?
Perhaps if you ask your Labour supporting friend what he understands to be the position within the Union, you will not be surprised that he hasn't got a clue. I think it is fair to say that Nationalists are expected to answer every question, but Unionists feel they don't have to.
that's the equivelant of sticking my fingers in my ears and saying "la-la-la- I can't hear you!" Whether he supports the Union is irrelevant.
#
2012-03-03 23:36
[quote name="that's the equivelant of sticking my fingers in my ears and saying "la-la-la- I can't hear you!" Whether he supports the Union is irrelevant.[/quote]
Indeed it is not! If you ask your friend what the currentUK defences consist of, in relation to Scotland, I think it would be very telling if he does not know?
Don't you? After all, if he expects you to have answers about future defences; he should surely have a benchmark to make comparisons? eg: at the moment we have "X" number of naval vessels, so your friend would want to know if an Independent Scotland would have at least "X" or perhaps more or less, depending on how Scotland decides to spend on a proposed Defence budget.
I really don't see why you feel that it is incumbent on you to have all the answers, and your friend be able to shrug and say "I know nothing"
Indeed it is not! If you ask your friend what the currentUK defences consist of, in relation to Scotland, I think it would be very telling if he does not know?
Don't you? After all, if he expects you to have answers about future defences; he should surely have a benchmark to make comparisons? eg: at the moment we have "X" number of naval vessels, so your friend would want to know if an Independent Scotland would have at least "X" or perhaps more or less, depending on how Scotland decides to spend on a proposed Defence budget.
I really don't see why you feel that it is incumbent on you to have all the answers, and your friend be able to shrug and say "I know nothing"
#
2012-03-03 23:46
Quoting brusque:
My friend is a former serviceman with a keen interest in defence matters. I know he knows about UK policy. I'm admitting I can find hee-haw about SNP policy. Simply shouting back "what's your policy" takes the debate nowhere.
[quote name="that's the equivelant of sticking my fingers in my ears and saying "la-la-la- I can't hear you!" Whether he supports the Union is irrelevant.[/quote]
Indeed it is not! If you ask your friend what the currentUK defences consist of, in relation to Scotland, I think it would be very telling if he does not know?
Don't you? After all, if he expects you to have answers about future defences; he should surely have a benchmark to make comparisons? eg: at the moment we have "X" number of naval vessels, so your friend would want to know if an Independent Scotland would have at least "X" or perhaps more or less, depending on how Scotland decides to spend on a proposed Defence budget.
I really don't see why you feel that it is incumbent on you to have all the answers, and your friend be able to shrug and say "I know nothing"
My friend is a former serviceman with a keen interest in defence matters. I know he knows about UK policy. I'm admitting I can find hee-haw about SNP policy. Simply shouting back "what's your policy" takes the debate nowhere.
#
2012-03-04 01:34
Ok, so what do we know.
Currently westminster has announced a number of reviews to take place over the coming years.
We know that for one month in Oct/Nov we had not one quick response vessel in UK waters
We know that we are building aircraft carriers, one to be mothballed, the other not ready for 8 years and looking dubious that we will have planes that can actually fly from it (this American version of the Harrier is plagued with problems)
We know that army personnel is being reduced.
We know the nimrod replacement (whatever it was called) has been scrapped,
From the reviews, it looks as though Scotland will be left with one base of each flavour army, airforce and naval.
What i've heard from AS on tv interviews is that we will have an initial defence force of 15,000 troops - then to be supplemented with either a territorial division or similar, or indeed to increase our permanent ground force to around 20 to 23,000, in line with similar countries on the Scandinavian model.
We will have a variety of strike and support aircraft plus helicopter capabilities which at present would be based in one airfield.
Naval capabilities I am unsure of, but I have heard mention various smaller patrol boats predominantly for North Sea Oil protection - this from Angus Robertson.
As for hard evidence of actual figures, as far as I am aware that document does not exist because the UK at present doesn't know what it's doing yet - hence all the consultations and reviews and then you have to factor in the independence settlement and what we would see out of it.
We will see hardware being sent to Scotland, that however is open to negotiation - it is impossible to say.
The only thing that is certain at present s that the £3bn we send every year to westminster for defence will be fully spent in Scotland rather than down south.
There are many factors to take into account, most notably what westminster decide in their reviews. Until that happens we will not have a a fully clear picture.
However, the most important point to make is that it will be a defence force only. It may be used to take part in peace keeping missions or as part of joint UN action, as in Libya.
Currently westminster has announced a number of reviews to take place over the coming years.
We know that for one month in Oct/Nov we had not one quick response vessel in UK waters
We know that we are building aircraft carriers, one to be mothballed, the other not ready for 8 years and looking dubious that we will have planes that can actually fly from it (this American version of the Harrier is plagued with problems)
We know that army personnel is being reduced.
We know the nimrod replacement (whatever it was called) has been scrapped,
From the reviews, it looks as though Scotland will be left with one base of each flavour army, airforce and naval.
What i've heard from AS on tv interviews is that we will have an initial defence force of 15,000 troops - then to be supplemented with either a territorial division or similar, or indeed to increase our permanent ground force to around 20 to 23,000, in line with similar countries on the Scandinavian model.
We will have a variety of strike and support aircraft plus helicopter capabilities which at present would be based in one airfield.
Naval capabilities I am unsure of, but I have heard mention various smaller patrol boats predominantly for North Sea Oil protection - this from Angus Robertson.
As for hard evidence of actual figures, as far as I am aware that document does not exist because the UK at present doesn't know what it's doing yet - hence all the consultations and reviews and then you have to factor in the independence settlement and what we would see out of it.
We will see hardware being sent to Scotland, that however is open to negotiation - it is impossible to say.
The only thing that is certain at present s that the £3bn we send every year to westminster for defence will be fully spent in Scotland rather than down south.
There are many factors to take into account, most notably what westminster decide in their reviews. Until that happens we will not have a a fully clear picture.
However, the most important point to make is that it will be a defence force only. It may be used to take part in peace keeping missions or as part of joint UN action, as in Libya.
#
2012-03-03 21:35
govanite - I totally agree. I supported Labour for 38 years until the Iraq war and on returning to live in Scotland began to see the way they have treated people in Scotland and particularly Glasgow> What did we ever do to deserve these ignorant pigs?
#
2012-03-03 22:10
Erm, you voted for them for 38 years?
At least, Taimoshan, you opened your eyes and saw the disaster that Labour had become under Blair and have remained ever since.
Please, Labour voters, open your eyes too and see what Scotland could be as a free and independent nation, standing as an equal amongst other nations; not the pathetic country that Lamont would have us, handing back powers to London while tugging our forelocks.
Remember, a vote for Independence dosen't mean that you have to vote for the SNP.
At least, Taimoshan, you opened your eyes and saw the disaster that Labour had become under Blair and have remained ever since.
Please, Labour voters, open your eyes too and see what Scotland could be as a free and independent nation, standing as an equal amongst other nations; not the pathetic country that Lamont would have us, handing back powers to London while tugging our forelocks.
Remember, a vote for Independence dosen't mean that you have to vote for the SNP.
#
2012-03-03 23:07
Was just watching an item on musicals, on TV.
Once upon a time, "Tomorrow Comes" from Les Miserables would have seemed an appropriate song for Labour. Now the positive thinking would only be suitable for the parties supporting independence.
www.youtube.com/.../
Once upon a time, "Tomorrow Comes" from Les Miserables would have seemed an appropriate song for Labour. Now the positive thinking would only be suitable for the parties supporting independence.
www.youtube.com/.../
#
2012-03-03 23:21
Regarding the suggestion that upon regaining our independence we ought to take the Saltire out of the Union Flag you can forget it: as long as we and the English share a queen that is. However, there is nothing to stop us from placing the Saltire on top of the flag of St. George.
That's the way Union Flag used to fly in Scotland until it was altered and the St. George's cross placed on top of the St. Andrews cross. Perhaps we could start to manufacture the re-altered flag as of now?
That's the way Union Flag used to fly in Scotland until it was altered and the St. George's cross placed on top of the St. Andrews cross. Perhaps we could start to manufacture the re-altered flag as of now?
#
2012-03-03 23:38
Alternatively, we can stick to the Saltire as our national flag. rUK can do what they like - if they want to keep the Saltire in their flag in memory of the huge contribution Scots made to their Empire in times past, then that's up to them.
#
2012-03-04 01:25
Pardon? did I miss something? I was refering to govanites remark. It would be one sided if we didn't. After all I recall a european final that Celtic were in and not a St Andrew's cross to be seen (St Patrick's ones - green and white but when was he the patron saint of Scotland) so what does that say? You tell me. I'll advance a theory that a proportion of people in Scotalnd cannot thole a blue and white flag. As for the union flag...not for me. Maybe time to think about a new all inclusive, non religious, colour scheme for a future flag, and a new national anthem while we're at it.
#
2012-03-04 01:28
Quoting Robabody:
Incidentally George Galloway will be addressing Coatbridges St Patricks Day parade this year. Perhaps we should turn up and wave saltires (and barrels of oil...)
Pardon? did I miss something? I was refering to govanites remark. It would be one sided if we didn't. After all I recall a european final that Celtic were in and not a St Andrew's cross to be seen (St Patrick's ones - green and white but when was he the patron saint of Scotland) so what does that say? You tell me. I'll advance a theory that a proportion of people in Scotalnd cannot thole a blue and white flag. As for the union flag...not for me. Maybe time to think about a new all inclusive, non religious, colour scheme for a future flag, and a new national anthem while we're at it.
Incidentally George Galloway will be addressing Coatbridges St Patricks Day parade this year. Perhaps we should turn up and wave saltires (and barrels of oil...)
#
2012-03-04 01:58
Good luck to the parade Jester - I hope it is a dry and fine day for them and everyone has a good time. Having a tad of green in the old blood stream means I'm usually up for a dram or three. As for Mr Galloway........ I salute his bank balance but had I been at the parade I would probably be in the refreshment tent when he was speaking - either that or the vomitarium leading the charge out when he got to the podium.
#
2012-03-04 00:11
Rubbish the union flag is a political flag not a royal flag. However the English have kept the flag of St Patrick in the union flag even after Ireland gained its freedom. I think they will keep the saltire too as an act of colonial ambition.
#
2012-03-04 00:07
Apologies for going way off topic NNS. Interesting wee article in the Guardian folks. Doesn't look like much, only a few paras, but it could be the start.
Subject New Megrahi Appeal
guardian.co.uk/.../...
Subject New Megrahi Appeal
guardian.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-03-04 00:48
One commentator says "comments will shortly be turned off on this article".
Meanwhile, has anyone seen this video, also mentioned:
The Maltese Double Cross by Alan Francovich
video.google.co.uk/.../
Meanwhile, has anyone seen this video, also mentioned:
The Maltese Double Cross by Alan Francovich
video.google.co.uk/.../
#
2012-03-04 00:52
Interesting last para - it has been discussed before but not, as far as I’m aware, aggressively pursued. In my flying days Heathrow was referred to as Thiefrow. So, if it was easy enough to pillage passengers belongings in those days, it was certainly easy enough to get in and put something in.
#
2012-03-04 01:15
Labour consultation for a year is an excuse to wander about in the long grass until the heat goes away.
No policy initiatives today just ranting at the SNP and how nasty they are. . and it should-a-been us what is in power!
Eventually they will sniff the way the wind is blowing; examine some wet seaweed in the Clyde and look at the runes before selecting an option, one designed to save their thick skins and brass necks because they will have to call out of embarrassment.
We can start a campaign suggesting to Johann it should be sooner rather than later as the referendum is due soon.
Darling & Brown & Lamont allied with Cameron & Clegg & Kennedy with the three Lords and uncle Tom Cobbly etal.
The Scottish people know in their water who to trust and it ain't any of them.
Independence first and we'll make our own jam and ignore pigs in pokes.
The SNP and the Scottish people will have a good relationship.
Labour/ Johann theme song:
www.youtube.com/.../
No policy initiatives today just ranting at the SNP and how nasty they are. . and it should-a-been us what is in power!
Eventually they will sniff the way the wind is blowing; examine some wet seaweed in the Clyde and look at the runes before selecting an option, one designed to save their thick skins and brass necks because they will have to call out of embarrassment.
We can start a campaign suggesting to Johann it should be sooner rather than later as the referendum is due soon.
Darling & Brown & Lamont allied with Cameron & Clegg & Kennedy with the three Lords and uncle Tom Cobbly etal.
The Scottish people know in their water who to trust and it ain't any of them.
Independence first and we'll make our own jam and ignore pigs in pokes.
The SNP and the Scottish people will have a good relationship.
Labour/ Johann theme song:
www.youtube.com/.../
#
2012-03-04 12:24
Help !!!!
How many commissions/consultation's on devolution are there?
Not sure if this includes federalism--any liberal out there can comment?
To consider them all I believe we should have a referendum on them by 2015
Please Ms Lamont explain this consultationiti s --is it dangerous?
How many commissions/consultation's on devolution are there?
Not sure if this includes federalism--any liberal out there can comment?
To consider them all I believe we should have a referendum on them by 2015
Please Ms Lamont explain this consultationiti s --is it dangerous?
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