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By a Newsnet reporter

The London Olympics, which were hailed as a reaffirmation of Britishness, have in fact made Scots more likely to support independence, according to a poll published in yesterday's Sunday Times. 

The Panelbase survey found that 12% of respondents said that the Olympics had made them more likely to vote in favour of independence, as opposed to just 8% of Scots who say they feel more British because of Team GB's performance.

The poll also found that the gap between support for independence and support for the Union is now only nine points – requiring a swing of just 4.5% for a Yes vote in 2014.  35% of Scots say they intend to vote in favour of independence, with 44% saying they intend to vote against.

The poll of almost 800 Scots also showed that 29% believe Scottish athletes should compete for Great Britain after independence while double that,  58%, say Scotland should represent itself.

The findings show the opposite effect to that predicted by the anti-independence parties and the London based media.  It was widely claimed that the London Olympics would create a wave of pro-British sentiment which would make Scots less inclined to vote in favour of independence in 2014.  The results of yesterday's poll suggest that Scots feel more alienated from the UK's version of Britishness as a result of the Games.
 
The anti-independence parties and some Scottish media commentators have been vocal in their politicisation of the Games.  In a mistimed article published in today's Scotsman newspaper, Labour's shadow foreign secretary, Douglas Alexander sought to garner political capital from the Games for the anti-independence camapign.  Mr Alexander insisted that the Games had been a "nightmare" for the SNP and claimed that the SNP had been "left spluttering defensively" by the success of the Games, which he considered to have "pulverised the nationalists' narrative".

Other anti-independence politicians were quicker to politicise the success of the Games.  When Scottish tennis player Andy Murray won his gold medal, Conservative Member of the European Parliament Struan Stevenson tweeted: "Andy Murray, great Scot and Olympic Champion, holding a gold medal and proudly draped in the Union Jack - eat your heart out Alex Salmond!"

His Holyrood colleague Murdo Fraser tweeted: "As we watch Andy Murray singing our National Anthem, never forget that there are small-minded Nationalists who want to destroy TeamGB." 
 
On Tuesday of last week, the Guardian newspaper published an editorial claiming that Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond had been the big loser from the Games, adding that the event proved "just how comfortable the majority of the public feels with this hugely rewarding, shared aspect of our British identity".  

The following day, the Independent newspaper also published a leader article, in which the newspaper welcomed "the return of the Union Jack" and claimed that the Scottish First Minister would be "disconsolate" by the sight of Union flag waving crowds, saying:  "British athletes winning gold medals in the Olympics will – irrational though it may seem – be a boost for unity when and if Mr Salmond offers Scots a vote on independence."  

For his part, First Minister Alex Salmond said Murray's win "should make everyone in Scotland extremely proud".  

Media commentators opposed to independence also leapt on the bandwagon and used it as a vehicle to launch personal attacks on Alex Salmond.   Arch-Unionist Alan Cochrane published a diatribe in the Conservative supporting Daily Telegraph in which he claimed that British success at the Olympics was "sticking in Salmond's throat" and that the event revealed the First Minister's "true anti-British feelings".  

Similar sentiments were expressed in the Telegraph by Iain Martin, deputy editor of the Sunday Telegraph and former editor of the Scotsman.  Mr Martin asserted that Team GB's medal success was a "nightmare for Alex Salmond and the SNP".

Just yesterday the Guardian published an article by Kevin McKenna in which he argued:  "It would be absurd not to acknowledge that the vibrant and muscular Britishness evident at the Olympic Games has reinforced feelings of unionism."

However there was no evidential basis to any the claims that the Olympics would make Scots less inclinted to vote for independence, and with the publication of the Panelbase poll the exhultation of the anti-independence camp appears to have been premature.

Commenting on the poll, SNP MP Pete Wishart said:

"This is clear evidence that the puerile efforts of the anti-independence parties to politicise the Games have backfired.

"I've been delighted to support Scotland's Olympians and Team GB during the London Games, and will be delighted to support Team Scotland at the 2014 Commonwealth Games, and at the Olympics following a Yes vote in 2014."

"With the gap between support for an independent Scotland and the Union now down to a swing of just 4.5 per cent, we are very confident indeed of achieving a Yes vote for independence in autumn 2014."

 

Related article:
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/5533-the-debasing-of-the-olympics-by-scottish-unionists-and-why-they-do-it

Comments  

 
# Roll_On_2011 2012-08-13 06:23
Well, well, well, what an outcome to the unionist’s Jubilimpiks, with wall to wall union flags and it hasn’t made a dent in the drive for independence. Far from it the independence outlook has improved and only needs a 4.5% swing for a win.

I think Blair Jenking’s has the correct approach: If every individual who is going to vote YES each persuades one other undecided to vote yes….. its in the bag. It will be hard work but as Ian Davidson say’s…. ‘it is dooable’.

.
 
 
# UpSpake 2012-08-13 06:48
It's over - thank goodness. With some planning I managed to miss the whole event. Keeping the TV switched off was a major strategy to avoid the overbearing lurch towards Britishness, a concept which I have never heard properly articulated Mr. Major ?.
Olympic legacy, hae ma doots. I wait to be convinced that the gross overspend won't be taken out on the Commonwealth Games costing less than a 1/10th of London.
 
 
# pmcrek 2012-08-13 17:10
I've been playing warcraft quite heavily, was there an olympics on?
 
 
# cardrossian 2012-08-14 05:55
Olympic legacy?

I'm still waiting on the legacy from 1948 to reach me!
 
 
# Onwards 2012-08-13 06:51
Personally, I think Salmond should have made an appearance at the games, photographed with a union jack and all.
- to demonstrate that the type of Britishness as seen in the games isn't a threat to Scottish independence or vice versa.
Most people don't have a problem with a benign idea of Britishness based on friends,family, culture etc and the SNP shouldn't fall into the trap of being associated as being against any of that.

It's the unequal political union of the UK that is the problem, and that is a different thing entirely.

Perhaps the message needs to be clearer that Independence would be good for Scotland and good for Britain.
Independence within Britain even.
 
 
# Louperdowg 2012-08-13 07:26
I agree, Onwards.

It is the political union that is the problem, not the geographical one.

Bringing the Olympics into the discussion is irrelevant.

Just because Sir Chris can hammer round an indoor cycle track like a demented hamster in a record time, doesn't mean that we should be misruled from Westminster.
 
 
# clootie 2012-08-13 06:56
I admired the efforts of all taking part. Had they been representing Europe / GB or Scotland I would have had the same respect and admiration.

I would prefer Scotland to be represented. However individuals taking part under the existing banner is not an issue for me. However using the current ruling to argue a political point is simply wrong.

Let's not drag athletes into the debate.
 
 
# Macart 2012-08-13 07:41
Spot on clootie, we'll leave that to the likes of those mentioned in the article.

Check this out in the Guardian:

guardian.co.uk/.../...

Mr McKenna's been using his psychic powers again.
 
 
# John Lyons 2012-08-14 14:40
I found myself supporting individuals, not teams.

I liked the young American Highjumper that won Silver, and was otally rooting for the teeny boxer Adams that won the gold.

Maybe the sportsmen I usualy watch are too driven by money, or maybe it really is that these are individuals to whom being the best is most important were such a refreshing change.

As for being proud to be British, I watched a Spitfire flying over Fort George for twenty miutes this weekend. Made me much more proud than a whole fortnight of Team GB taking a run or a jump.
 
 
# robbo 2012-08-13 07:12
The previous poll by Panelbase was this...

Quote:
A survey for The Sunday Times and Real Radio Scotland asked 1,000 adults: "Do you agree that Scotland should become an independent country?"

Thirty-seven percent of those quizzed agreed with the statement, while 42% disagreed.


huffingtonpost.co.uk/.../...

So unfortunately it has swung the other way slightly, but it's still close and perfectly possible to overcome.
 
 
# mealer 2012-08-13 07:24
Its interesting that the poll shows support for YES and NO to be pretty much static and the number of undecideds to be much the same as previously.It looks to me like the olympics has entrenched the position of a relatively small number of people in both the YES and NO camps,but done nothing to persuade the undecideds either way.The whole jubilee/olympic Britfest is about as positive as the NO campaign can get.So what are they going to do to get those undecideds on board ? But lets not forget,we have a bigger hill to climb than the No campaign.We have to work hard,day by day,to get our message to the people.
 
 
# Leswil 2012-08-13 07:31
The games were a great success no doubt all the stops were pulled, and a fortune spent to make sure it was.

However, I take heart that the gutter press attempt to influence Scots has fallen on stony ground.

We are a determined race us Scots, and the games, no matter how good, are not going to sway us from our well earned destiny.

There are far more important agendas for us to follow, that in turn seek to improve our lands and our well being.

They have it so wrong to think this event would change our mind, and the evidence of that is now out, I am so proud of my fellow Scots, we are showing our mettle.

All the dark forces against us do so for their own reasons, not to benefit Scotland nor it's people.

They need to accept it is what it is and start thinking of becoming good neighbours rather than overlords, these days are gone.
 
 
# Jim Johnston 2012-08-13 07:41
Yes it's over, bar the months of raking over the coals and endless repeats.

I watched none of it, (and it has nothing to do with politics). I think Eddie the Eagle was the last time I watched much of any olympics.

The Commonwelth Games are at least a bit less professional and more of a get together, which I don't mind.
 
 
# hiorta 2012-08-13 08:07
Typical of desperate Unionism - grasping at others athletic prowess for self-serving purposes - any port in fine weather.
Did their enthusiasm extend to a public apology to the Team Iraq?
We are still waiting for Unionism to spell out exactly what it holds out to 'No' voters. Long wait, by the look of it!
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-08-13 08:11
The poll of almost 800 Scots also showed that 29% believe Scottish athletes should compete for Great Britain...

Hmm. 1 in 3. That number is familiar. The status quoers...

As for the Y vs N. So long as the N is comfortably below 50% - which it is on average (huge variance between polls so don't focus on individual polls) then a Yes is favoured. When it becomes clear devo max is a pipe dream, the 3 in 10 devo maxers on top of the 4 in 10 independencers will need to make up their minds: devo max excel (independence) or no change....
 
 
# DoricBob 2012-08-13 08:29
The politicians, reporters, etc who see the Olympics as a great success for the union are simply seeing what they want to see - desperate for some "good news."

Ok, we're maybe proud of what the athletes have done,but being "British"for the duration of the games doesn't stop me being Scottish and 100% for independence.

As a musician I liken independence to being in a great band, but leaving to further a solo career - you can be proud of what you did with the band, still be friends with them, but looking forward to a new challenge and doing things a differently.
 
 
# pmcrek 2012-08-14 17:24
Heh, it used to be about the Heroin man!
 
 
# daveniz 2012-08-13 08:33
well seems like the unionists,the BBC and channel 4 failed in there mission to try and brainwash the Scottish public into staying with the union the tactic was clear the unionists attack the SNP and Alex salmond everytime a Scot won a medal, the BBC stop saying the British flag and kept on saying union jack obviously under instructions from westminster and channel 4 kept saying the Olympics made the nation feel more british than ever! as if we are stupid enough to believe that a sports event in London meant that's the only way your british all it did show is the unionists and media mindset doesn't leave London e.g during the opening ceremony what was a part which was clearly London theme was refered to as the best of british! they really think that when a Scot won a medal it was for the union! its such a pathetic attempt to latch on to others glory and claim it as there own!
 
 
# alexb 2012-08-13 08:46
And what about the former Labour First Minister, Henry McLeish, describing the "Union" as an "empty vessel for the future", and also suggesting that independence is the shock the country needs to invigorate confidence. Any comment?
 
 
# Chateaulait 57 2012-08-13 09:02
So the pro unionist believe that because Team GB done well at the London Olympics that somehow kills off any desire for independence.

If that is true then did they call for a break up of the union after the Atlanta 1996 games when Britain only won 1 Gold, 6 Silver and 8 Bronze medals.

No they didn't.....Can't have it both way's chap's.
 
 
# Leswil 2012-08-13 09:05
alexb
On the face of it, this would be a positive suggestion by McLeish.

However, let us not forget that this is the same Henry McLeish who conspired with Tony Blair to ceed 6000 sq miles of Scottish seas to England!

I have noted some humble signs from McLeish over the last little while, perhaps he is ashamed of his previous political life and is trying to make amends.So we will see........
 
 
# John Lyons 2012-08-14 15:40
Chateaulait, Claims that Jubilympic Euphoria will "Kill Nationalism Stone dead" always remind me of George Robertson for some reason....

Leswil, Maybe McLeish is just trying to weedle his way back in. Foulkes, Fraser and Forsyth think they can keep us in the union and retain thier Gravy train. Maybe McLeish thinks independence is a certainty and he is starting to jump ship now, rather than wait for all the other rats in Westminster.
 
 
# Jemimatartandrawers 2012-08-13 09:06
What is most evident is that none of them have mentioned the figure of £8.4 BILLION the games cost- , who will pay..? And how? I did watch quite a lot of the games, force fed by my significat other initially, but then willingly, but I can't think how to justify such a gross amount of money being spent, nor can i see it bringing any direct benefit to Scotland.
 
 
# GuidedByPollard 2012-08-13 09:09
Well, that's the 'No' camp played their trump cards and the swing towards anti-independence just didn't happen for them despite the Union flag being thrust down our throat for the last 6 months...now we have 2 years of a truly hopeless Westminster government with no interest outside of Middle England and the Jubilympics will be a distant memory in Autumn 2014.
Their best hopes now are a Royal baby or another Falklands war
 
 
# independentgirl 2012-08-13 09:26
In a week or two the Olympics will be forgotten about, but in 2014 when our athletes do well in the Commonwealth games that will be fresh in the minds of the Scottish people come the referendum. That's one of the reasons why the Unionist camp want the referendum sooner. Well they're not getting their way!
 
 
# Seagetagrip 2012-08-13 09:42
Slightly O/T

Yesterdays Sunday Herald had an article entitled "Identity Crisis" by Macwhirter. I concluded that if anyone had an identity crisis it was him! He made incredible statements such as "Scotland bumping along the bottom of the medal table with Norway and Denmark" If only!
The jingoistic articles continued with Graham Speirs who used a photograph of, presumably, the Rangers end at Rugby Park to back up his assertion of frenetic support for Team GB in Ayreshire.
Deceitful? Maybe see what the PCC think.

Perhaps it might be an idea to print Macwhirters Article in full here. Provides loads of ammunition for our big hitters.
 
 
# Mei 2012-08-13 10:12
The 2012 Olympics were reminiscent of the 1936 Olympics.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-08-13 10:22
guardian.co.uk/.../...

Yes, not smiling was an offence worthy of arrest....
 
 
# border reiver 2012-08-13 10:21
It's as though the games reporting was primarily about brainwashing the Scottish public rather than the sport, with the BBC, media and Cameron using every available opportunity to wave the Union Jack and make comment on how proud scots should be of britain. Last nights closing ceremony was very good but it was mainly a hugely expensive government paid pop concert in times of great hardship for many families
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-08-13 10:33
If you are of a delicate disposition you won't want to see the triumphant Britishness on display on twitter last night and gathered together by RevStu.

Will Milliband, Cameron or (don't laugh) Johann Lamont be asked to condemn these appalling Cyberbrits and their vile tweets?

Warning contains strong language......

Quote:
wingsland.podgamer.com/.../...


I think we know the answer to that.
 
 
# clootie 2012-08-13 15:11
It makes you fear for democracy that each of those people can cancel your vote!

I cannot believe that such a personal attack is the best you can do in a political debate.

A great man with an absolute passion for his nation and it's people.

It makes me quite sad that personal attacks at every level from MSM / Politicians and cyberbrits is the main campaign tool for the unionists
 
 
# sneckedagain 2012-08-13 10:43
If today's concoction in the Herald is anything to go by Magnus Gardham's tenure at the Herald has got off to a very bad start. It is a story about absolutely nothing in which the content of the text fails to support the headline and is unworthy of what presumes to be a serious newspaper
 
 
# Barontorc 2012-08-13 11:16
Talk about serendipity and the sun shining on the righteous - George Michael's performance of FREEDOM sung against a blue background with sparkling white lights would have been perfect as the main theme for an independence rally in Edinburgh.

Some of the lyrics could have been written by any diehard independent mind.


"...All we have to do now. - Is take these lies and make them true somehow. - All we have to see is that I don't belong to you - and you don't belong to me."

"Freedom – Freedom - You've gotta give for what you take."

"...But - today the way I play the game has got to change - Oh yeah. Now I'm gonna get myself happy. - I think there's something you should know. - I think it's time I stopped the show. - There's something deep inside of me. - There's someone I forgot to be.
I just hope you understand. - Sometimes the clothes do not make the man..."

"...All we have to do now. - Is take these lies and make them true somehow. - All we have to see is that I don't belong to you - and you don't belong to me..."

"Freedom! – Freedom! – Freedom!"
 
 
# Leswil 2012-08-13 11:17
When a Scottish constitution is finally agreed. It's contents will likely stun rUK who dare not go down this route.

Because........ The rUK population will also want it to use for themselves!

It WOULD be the nail in Westminster's coffin. Not only that, it will be what all democracies across the world will aspire too, real democracy for the people.
 
 
# steveb 2012-08-13 11:38
A very sweet survey result.
Now lets all get to Edinburgh on the 22nd to let the UK know we are still here and growing.
 
 
# Training Day 2012-08-13 11:48
Oh, what a bind wee Duggie, Murdo, Cockers, Martin et al will be in come the Commonwealth Games in 2014. Will the success of 'shepratishtical ' (Copyright J Lamont) Scottish athletes 'pulverise the Unionist narrative'? How will they present their 'support' for Scotland in that event while simultaneously attempting to deny a different Scottish identity? And what if the English team are very successful in 2014? What does that say about the Union?

Much fun and games to be had in watching their upcoming contortions around this one..
 
 
# border reiver 2012-08-13 11:57
Lord Coe has been appointed by David cameron to oversee the olympic legacy, which will be worth billions of pounds with stadiums, future funding for sports facilities, training and many other projects. just weeks after London was awarded the games Coe set up companies to take advantage, allegedly making him £2.7 million. He will no doubt be in a very influential position to make even more millions from his various business interests in his role overseeing the legacy.

What safeguards will Cameron put in place to ensure that profits will be ploughed back into sport and not pockets

dailymail.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# FREEDOM1 2012-08-13 12:00
I am glad it is all over. Listening to all those teary eyed commentators going on about being proud to be british made me almost puke. It really was just too much. I hope none of those plonkers will be used for our Commonwealth Games. If so i won,t be watching.
 
 
# Koenig 2012-08-13 12:01
At least you can see the only weapon they have at their disposal. I assume there will be a concerted effort to maintain ramming the union flag and britishness down our throat for the next 2 years. They will continue with wall to wall advertising of everything from british food to british tampons! They will continue to nationalise everything from british weather to the poor wildlife and fauna all being given british passports and flags. I do wonder what events they will have planned for 2014? Possibly a queen stepping down followed by a coronation of Willie and Katie?
 
 
# Caadfael 2012-08-13 12:03
I posted this on the bitter together page, see how long it lasts!
Now hasn’t London done us proud
I hear the shouts, so long, so loud
As the haul of gold is gathered in
The screams ring out, oh what a din
It’s all we’re left with, this fake gold
Too bad the real stuff has been sold
We could have used it now you see
To combat this austerity

This pride has come at quite a cost
For little gain, so much is lost
The losers in these money games
Will no doubt be that group of weans
Whose playing fields are long since sold
I think they went before the gold
And their clubhouse shuts as the rain pours in
Will the elite athletes kick up a din?
Or will they feel They must have more?
The crowd, you see, must come and roar

Now no one minds them having fun
Let them swim or jump or fight or run
Let them ride their horses or their bike
But now I hope they take a hike
In this old world there’s more to life
There are earthquakes, famine, war and strife
And all these baubles new, shiny bright
Will never change what’s wrong to right

Some may have realised their dreams
As the crowd waved flags and let out screams
For the cash that’s been syphoned from the pot
What did we get? well not a lot
To buy these shouts, so long, so loud
Oh hasn’t London done us proud
With a big thank you to Mato21
We have much to learn before the Commonwealth Games in '14, mistakes NOT to be copied!
 
 
# proudscot 2012-08-13 12:25
I am a firm supporter of independence and also of the SNP, the latter because they provide competent government of Scotland, and because they are the main vehicle for Scotland's independence.

I watched many of the Olympic events, including many sports I have rarely or never watched before, such as volleyball, hockey, taekwando, etc. I enjoyed the experience and cheered on all those competing for the British Team. I must admit though, that I felt more proud of the Scots who won medals, and I would expect English, Welsh or Northern Irish people to feel tha same about their "ain folk".

However, no doubt much to the disbelief of the likes of Douglas Alexander, Murdo Fraser, Alan Cochrane, et al, I still support Scottish independence and the SNP. I must be somehow immune to all the pro-Union propaganda being spoon fed to me by pro-Union commentators and politicians, over the past few weeks of the "Jubilympics".

In fact, the opposite has occurred in that I have now become increaingly irritated by the sight of the Union Flag. So the constant recent over exposure of same (on TV and in Tesco) has acted as an aversion therapy on me, rather than the intended opposite result. I still think Alex Salmond and his SNP Government are the best thing since sliced bread, although I wish Alex wouldn't eat quite so much of it!
 
 
# GuidedByPollard 2012-08-13 12:53
I was told as a bairn to be proud of your own achievements, not an accident of birth deciding where you were born. It's the athletes who can be proud. Success by osmosis for the Union flag-wavers
 
 
# J Wil 2012-08-13 13:16
O/T

Regarding the closing show for the Olympics, did I imagine that I saw a pipe band on the stage? Did I imagine that I did not hear it playing? What was the point of that?

@Freedom 1

I understood that the BBC had not made a commitment to take on the presentation of the Glasgow Commonwealth Games, so your wish may be granted.

Watch out for a BBC Scotland propaganda exercise tonight on the Scottish Olympians (correction - tomorrow night actually).
 
 
# Marga B 2012-08-13 14:11
You might well be right, J Wil. Did I spot a Welsh male voice choir in there too? So that just leaves the Irish ...
 
 
# Silverytay 2012-08-13 14:00
I just hope that we are not left the legacy that happened to Greece after their 2004 olympics .
My wife and I were in Athens during the summer and our tour guide was very bitter about the 2004 olympics blaming the debt from the olympics as the tipping point that put Greece over the edge .
According to her , the people of Greece are still paying the bills 8 years later for their olympics .
If our olympics are our tipping point ! I wonder if our brit nat twitterers will still feel the same way .
To find out the vile twits about our first minister visit W.O.S but I warn you , you will need a strong stomach and a large brandy to recover from it .
 
 
# rodmac 2012-08-13 14:03
The Last Hurrah

.../the-last-hurrah
 
 
# xyz 2012-08-13 20:30
Thanks, Excellent article.

"Conceivably Scotland could have had even more Golds than we got or shared, on the medal table had we competed under our own flag!
Plus instead of only having 10% of the team, we would have had 100% of our own team! "
 
 
# Wullie B 2012-08-13 14:15
O/T Seen in todays Daily Labour Record that former first minister Henry Maccleish said that independence maybe the shock to invigorate Scottish confidence P12 for those that couldnt believe like myself, Also stated that the Union appears to be an "Empty Vessel" for the future
 
 
# Seagetagrip 2012-08-13 15:14
Re BBC Scotland coverage of Commonwealth Games I seem to remember a discussion where they said that they were unable to commit to host coverage due to finances. Doubtless after setting aside money for Gary`s flight and hotel bill they were seriously worried.
Perhaps question under FOI to their admin might elicit a response. Or maybe a Newsnet reporter could ask them?
I will now donate to help out.
 
 
# J Wil 2012-08-13 18:41
I remember on hearing of the BBC's reluctance I thought it was just another attack on Scots because of their move towards independence.

It may be the best thing that ever happened if they did duck out. Apart from the bad publicity they would receive, it would save us from the same old faces presenting.

The bold Gordon appeared on the evening news, going on 'the UK is falling apart bandwagon'.
 
 
# ituna semea 2012-08-13 18:56
El Gordo has now entered the arena.
guardian.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-08-13 19:10
We're just missing Teflon Tony, El Gordo's mate Big Mags Thatcher and the stage will be set.
 
 
# cynicalHighlander 2012-08-13 19:36
'Action Man': local.stv.tv/.../...
 
 
# Thistle_2014 2012-08-13 21:24
Quoting ituna semea:
El Gordo has now entered the arena.
guardian.co.uk/.../...


I never heard him stating after the Atlanta 1996 Olympics where the "Great Britain" team got a solitary gold as a reason to support Scottish independence?
 
 
# bringiton 2012-08-13 22:28
Darling and Brown have made statements that Scottish independence would be a race to the bottom.
Both of these individuals know a thing or two about taking an economy to the bottom so have much to offer in the debate.
We need to heed their advice closely if we wish to replicate the same mistakes but somehow I doubt it.
Yesterday's men with yesterday's ideas and should stick with the day jobs lecturing others about how to totally wreck an economy.
 
 
# Indy_Scot 2012-08-13 19:41
Is that the same Gordo that said he would put an end to Boom and Bust, and save the world?

I wouldn’t take anything he says too seriously.
 
 
# farrochie 2012-08-13 20:10
He did put an end to Boom and Bust. Now we've just got Bust. :)
 
 
# Early Ball 2012-08-13 20:13
Quoting Indy_Scot:
Is that the same Gordo that said he would put an end to Boom and Bust, and save the world?

I wouldn’t take anything he says too seriously.


No the man would say anything for political gain. e.g. favourite band Arctic Monkeys and favourite sporting moment, Gazza's goal against Scotland at Wembley.

I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt when he became PM. Maybe traditional Labour policies but what a disappointment more of the same Red Tory policies that Blair delivered.
 
 
# src19 2012-08-13 22:59
It's probably very old news but spotted this on twitter Gordon Brown Calculator:-
www.tpadata.com/.../

quite amusing but sad as well.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-08-13 19:44
You just have to love Brown's idea of "pooling and sharing". I take my bit and your bit too and pòol them both in a nice central place like England. Then if you're a good region I'll let you "share".
 
 
# Koenig 2012-08-13 20:22
Gordon's idea of pooling was to take all the money then spend it then to develop this idea and spend money the country hasn't got. So credit where it's due Gordon is responsible for bringing the country to the point of bankruptcy and saddling it with £5.5 trillion of debt. He is a loyal servant though he doesn't want the Scottish cash cow to leave the UK leaving it up the creek!
 
 
# Talorcan 2012-08-13 20:01
Don't expect too much from the Commonwealth Games as regards the Scottish athletes. It's more than likely that some of them will be 'got at' and there will be stories of drugs, womanising, bribes etc. Doesn't anyone remember Scotland's football 'heroes' in 1978? There was just enough in that pot to put many Scots off voting Yes in the 1979 referendum as so many of us were ashamed of our football team's antics. Let's not be naive; independence won't be achieved by living vicariously through the achievements or failures of sportsmen and women. It will be won by delivering the facts of what independence will mean to the average Scot and by pointing out the dangers of further government by London.
 
 
# Welsh Sion 2012-08-13 21:20
Very Off topic

Please Moderators - could you transfer this elsewhere if you think it's inappropriate here, but this piece of news is very important to us in Wales, and may also be important to Gaelic (and other minority language) speakers. Apologies that the source is BBC but I can find no other commentary available in English at the moment.

Thank you in advance.

bbc.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# peter,aberdeenshire 2012-08-13 21:34
Browsing the pro unionist sites and came across this beaut, he don't half talk shoite!
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Insch74 2012-08-13 21:56
I've got to say I did enjoy these Olympics. I don't know if they were great or was it just that they were closer to home. I don't mind the theoretical concept of Scotland competing as part of Team GB in the future (but why would we) as GB is the geographical description as opposed to the political UK. I understand from other posts here that Team UK is not possible anyway due to Ireland's Olympic franchise. This Team GB could be undertaken as part of the future 'social union' we will still have with the rest of the British Isles. I imagine this would be a particularly difficult concept for Unionist to grasp given their black and white 'separatist' proclamations. You get the impression from them that Scotland will not even be part of the British Isles after independence never mind hesitatingly still having an equal claim to the title 'British' and its culture. Future co-operation for mutual benefit, whist still retaining sovereignty in shared matters, is a very awkward conversation for Unionists to be drawn into.
 
 
# amimmortal 2012-08-13 23:24
To add to your point, the correct term for the political entity to which we are currently bound is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Great Britain is the largest island in the British Isles, comprised of England, Wales and Scotland. As such, an independent Scotland would still be part of the geographical entity known as Great Britain, just as the Republic of Ireland remains part of the British Isles.

Conversely, Northern Ireland is not a part of Great Britain.

The political entity of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland would cease to exist in the event of Scottish independence.

As I understand it, the Irish and English Crowns were already "unified" under Henry VIII and were subsequently united with the Scots crown under James VI/ I. Thus, Under current proposals, Queen Elizabeth II would continue to be the Queen of Scots in an independent Scotland, maintaining the union of the crowns, whilst the union of parliaments would be dissolved.

So, independent scots may continue to legitimately call themselves British, whereas people from Northern Ireland could not (controversial?).

I'd be interested to hear what people think an independent Scotland would/ should be called, and similarly what the remnant UK would likely be called, on this basis?
 
 
# Insch74 2012-08-14 20:39
Yes, I should have been a bit more accurate with my Great Britain description. Interestingly the BBC called our Olympic team 'Great Britain and Northern Ireland' in the medals table. I wonder if they stopped to consider why the team was not called 'Team UK' or 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.

I think what our friends south of the border call themselves after independence will be more of a problem for them than us. They can't say United Kingdom as there will only be one kingdom, Great Britain is our island and Britain is a bit vague. Although I've heard Britain being described as the Roman name for the area comprising England and Wales. So maybe The Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland. As for us, just Scotland (no need for a Sunday name!) will do for me regardless of whether we become a republic or not.
 
 
# bull 2012-08-13 22:32
Someone on here compared these games to 1936. Get over yourself. There's also an equal and opposite hare-brained reaction to people trying to make capital out of something which doesn't actually mean that much - which is to be sniffy and pretend they've paid no attention whatsoever to the last couple of weeks. It was good fun while it lasted. I doubt Alex Salmond is going to invite Chris Hoy and other Scots for a victory parade under the scottish flag like he did four years aago; in case we forget everyone tries for political advantage. Though maybe he will; after all the people's republic of Yorkshire did pretty well too.
 
 
# rob4i 2012-08-14 16:46
The Olympics are ALL about World sportsmen coming together to compete in their relevant events for Gold, Silver or Bronze medals every 4years at different venues throughout the world.

The Olympics are certainly NOT about Unionist politics and the Unionist rags that willingly printed the stupid ignorant remarks that alleged or implied that Scotland only did well because of
Team GB and if they were an Independent country they would somehow have failed!

This of course is absolute blinding garbage and all their readers who read those remarks should be seething at such anti-Scottishness of course the ones that read those papers regularly are the ones that have NO pride in their nationality unless we continue to be governed by the English Parliament!!
 

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