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  By Martin Kelly
 
The Conservative party has admitted that Scottish leader Ruth Davidson had a secret meeting with a delegation from the Spanish Partido Popular (PP) at the Tory party conference in Birmingham in October.
 
However they have denied that they negotiated a deal that would see a common front in opposition to a newly independent Scotland and Catalonia remaining in the EU.

In a statement yesterday, a spokesperson for the Conservative party said they had "absolutely no intention" of entering into any such agreement with the PP.

The statement followed a report in the Spanish newspaper El Periódico, which claimed an accord was to be signed between the Tories and the PP in order to give a joint response to the independence aspirations of Catalonia and Scotland.

The claims followed comments from senior PP figure Esteban González Pons, who had revealed that a meeting had taken place between himself and senior figures from the Tory party in Birmingham.  According to Mr González Pons an accord had been reached that would be ratified at a later meeting in Madrid.

The senior PP official also revealed a planned trip to Scotland in December, where he claimed a meeting had been arranged between himself and representatives of the Conservative and Labour parties.

According to the press agency ACN, the Conservative spokesperson admitted that the Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson had indeed met with a delegation from the PP, headed by Esteban González Pons, to discuss the situations in Scotland and Catalonia.

However, the spokesperson insisted "there were no agreements, formal or informal, to do anything with them [the PP] at any moment in the future." 

Sources within the Conservative party assured the ACN press agency that "there is no pact or plans to make any such pact," and added:  "This is how the situation is, we have absolutely no intention of making such an agreement."

The publication of the Conservatives' statement came hours after Newsnet Scotland published our article detailing the allegations made in the Spanish media.

The Spanish Partido Popular makes no secret of its attempts to construct a European-wide alliance of parties opposed to independence movements within their states, in the hope of securing a resolution in the European Parliament that newly independent countries formed from part of an existing member state would be expelled from the EU. 

Comments from Mr González Pons, who is known to be the party’s euro-fixer, and others within the Partido Popular strongly suggest that the party sought to offer British Conservatives a quid pro quo deal, whereby the UK government would press for the expulsion of an independent Catalonia from the EU in return for the Spanish government's support of a similar measure against an independent Scotland.

With the admission that the meeting did take place, there will now be questions as to what was discussed, why members of the PP were invited to attend the Conservative Conference and why the meeting was not made public at the time.

Newsnet Scotland has now contacted the Scottish Conservatives with the following questions:

  • What was the purpose of the meeting at the Conservative party conference and was it sanctioned/known about by UK party leaders?
  • Esteban González Pons has said he is coming to Scotland in December to meet with Conservative and Labour representatives.  Can Ruth Davidson confirm this visit and explain the purpose of the visit?
  • Will any Conservative representatives meet, as claimed by the Esteban González Pons, with PP in Madrid in December?
  • Was Ruth Davidson aware of PP's attempts to seek agreement that would result in newly independent states being expelled from the EU?

Many will also want confirmation that the Conservative party will not collaborate with the Partido Popular or any other foreign party in order to block or hinder Scottish accession to the EU in the event of a Yes vote in the independence referendum.

 

[Newsnet Comment:   Newsnet is aware that the Scottish Conservatives were angered by yesterday's report.  Conservative figures have criticised this site, saying that we failed to contact them for a statement before publishing the allegations detailed in the Spanish media.

However Newsnet Scotland has in the past made repeated attempts to contact the Scottish Conservatives for a statement on a story prior to publication.  All our attempts have been ignored by the party, which even refuses to acknowledge our repeated requests to be added to the party's press mailing list.

We have also contacted Scottish Labour to seek clarification on claims by Mr González Pons that a meeting has been scheduled in December between himself, Conservative and Labour representatives.]

Comments  

 
# Diabloandco 2012-11-06 23:28
I have just listened to what I consider a smear of the First minister on Newsnight Scotland presented as a sort of potted history ,acknowledging him as the longest serving FM.
It then went on to one D.Torrence to enquire why and how he became the comeback kid and why he was in the wilderness for a while - using rumour as a vehicle we had yet another set of smears.
I am so angry.

In relation to Ms Davidson ,I think ignoring her is best.she has had as much fun as I'm prepared to allow in her infantile attacks on the FM with her bosom buddy Johann.
 
 
# clootie 2012-11-07 07:49
Diabloandco

The entire programme section was the black art at work - I eventually had to switch off.

The remarks about why Alex stood down for a period as party leader were discraceful with the casual "although there is no evidence for this" - this is journalism.

If the Tories had nothing to hide with regard to the meeting with the delegation from the Spanish Partido Popular (PP) why was it not announced in an open manner at the time.
 
 
# catalan_01 2012-11-12 21:50
Quoting clootie:
Diabloandco

The entire programme section was the black art at work - I eventually had to switch off.

The remarks about why Alex stood down for a period as party leader were discraceful with the casual "although there is no evidence for this" - this is journalism.

If the Tories had nothing to hide with regard to the meeting with the delegation from the Spanish Partido Popular (PP) why was it not announced in an open manner at the time.

Perhaps the spanish go there without any previous notification. It's really funny to see how one part of the meeting say one thing and the other part say the opposite. Personally I trust nothing spanish politicians, specially form PP, but I have no information about here.
cheers =)
Ps: sorry, english's not my mother tongue x)
 
 
# J Wil 2012-11-06 23:28
"However, the spokesperson insisted "there were no agreements, formal or informal, to do anything with them [the PP] at any moment in the future."

Then what were they talking about? It looks like duplicity of the worst kind.

In any other country, activating against their own people would be looked on as treason.

I hope Salmond rips them apart on Thursday.

Both Lamont and Davidson jangle the ears at FMQs. I am sure people are getting fed up with them. Well they are, according to the popularity polls.

Glad to hear that NNS has hit them where it hurts.
 
 
# DJ 2012-11-06 23:49
Nothing of this on BBC website, and I'm sure there's less chance since Labour are implicated as well.

However we do have the 2 former SNP senior figures, only one of whom has been party leader despite MSM assertions, given prominent position. I don't know how the BBC can get away with this.
 
 
# X_Sticks 2012-11-07 10:01
"Alex Salmond becomes longest-serving Scottish first minister"

bbc.co.uk/.../...

Comments are (unusually) allowed!
 
 
# clootie 2012-11-07 11:07
X_Sticks

I noticed with interest that a couple of positive comments I rated "UP" became more negative and a couple of vile remarks I rated "down" gained positive scores.

The BBC at it's best - again. A technical error I'm sure :D
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-11-07 11:51
My comment is awaiting pre-moderation! A rare occurrence on the BBC UK comments' sites.
Why does Scotland require pre-moderation?
The Alex Salmond news is also posted on BBC UK!
Seems to be many vindictive,spit eful, ill-informed individuals writing in----from where? Many going in via the BBC UK backdoor I suspect.
 
 
# hiorta 2012-11-06 23:52
Is there any mechanism whereby those who would deny to others the basic human right of political self determination for their own selfish ends, could themselves be excluded from the EU?
 
 
# Marga B 2012-11-07 00:21
Hiorta - When you see what is happening to the Greeks, I don't think you can expect too high a moral stand from the EU, quite frankly.
 
 
# fred56 2012-11-07 03:21
Three hundred years ago we were sold for english gold, nothing changes.
 
 
# Macart 2012-11-07 04:12
Seems to me that whenever the union is in trouble they run to friends on the continent for help fred. If the report by Periodico is true and they have accurately quoted Mr Pons, then is this not a case of outside interference? Perhaps not directly in the referendum process, but certainly any such agreement, should it exist, is intended to influence the public's choice. This would surely count as members of our own parliament actively working against their own mandated government and electorate.

On the brighter side perhaps tory hoose will start taking NNS way more seriously now. :)

Just caught a newsflash, Obama wins.
 
 
# JRTomlin 2012-11-07 04:58
Yes, Obama won! While I don't agree with a number of things he has done and wish he had done a number of things he has not, the thought of Romney in the White House was enough to give me nightmares. I am truly relieved.
 
 
# Macart 2012-11-07 07:51
Same feeling here JRT. Obama has been a bit of a disappointment, but still a serviceable moderate president. The thought of Romney and the right wingers handling Iran or indeed any international hotspot or crisis didn't bear thinking about.
 
 
# Skip_NC 2012-11-07 13:41
Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. Obama a moderate president? I disagree. He is nothing more than an incompetent Republican with his own agenda and his own constituency.

He did do rather well at getting the election day vote out though. Here in Wake County, NC the Republicans took early leads (some of them quite substantial), which indicates a strong showing in the early voting period. By the end of the night, once the votes actually cast yesterday had been counted, the Democrats had done better than expected.

Overall, it seems that the country voted for the status quo at most levels.
 
 
# Macart 2012-11-07 14:22
Hullo Skip, good to see you here.

What you have to bear in mind is that when we describe an American President as moderate, we generally mean one who doesn't constantly have his hand hovering over a button or sending the troops out to visit new and interesting foreign climes. By our lights Obama is as moderate as it gets given the choices available. :D
 
 
# Skip_NC 2012-11-07 14:50
Now there's the thing, Macart. Obama's foreign policy has undergone some scrutiny during the campaign. Not enough, but some. It is an oft-stated view that he has been as hawkish as his predecessor, just less decisive. However, when he has made decisions, they have usually been similar to decisions GWB would have made, especially in Habeas Corpus issues.

In short I trust neither Obama nor Romney on foreign policy. I held my nose and voted for Romney on economic issues. NC's oppressive ballot access laws mean that a vote for Jill Stein, the Green candidate, would not even have been counted.
 
 
# Macart 2012-11-07 15:05
Got to say Skip, it generally scares the bejeezus out of us whenever there's an election in the states. The closed two party system, the right and further right wing neo liberal policies, the angst against foreign trading partners and allies. Oh wait now.................. I've just described Westminster politics. :)

You get the point though, the two party choice regardless of country has to be a bad thing. The closer the parties come to mirroring each other in order to win votes, the less difference you see. You essentially wind up voting for the same ethos regardless. We're lucky in Scotland that we do genuinely still have leftist and socially democratic parties which we can hold up and compare against our own red and blue versions of the Democrats and Republicans.
 
 
# Skip_NC 2012-11-07 17:28
Yes, the two-party dominance is dreadful. In terms of the presidential contest, it is a stitch-up. The grandly-named Commission on Presidential Debates is an organization jointly controlled by the DNC and the RNC. They get to decide who gets invited to the debates. I think Ross Perot was the last third-party candidate to get in.

Of course, the major parties argue that the primary system allows the electorate to choose candidates for the general election. That is all very well, but with a crowded field, perhaps 20 races on the ballot and precious little debate beforehand, it is almost impossible to come to an informed decision. The system most obviously discriminates against the Libertarian Party (fiscally conservative, socially liberal so they don't fit into either party) but it can drown out the voices of those who have other solutions to society's problems.
 
 
# Angus 2012-11-07 07:28
O/T Could it be that Obama would not interfere in Scotland's referendum debate and would accept the final vote, Romney being of the more right wing persuasion would be inclined to steam roller over us due to their trident issues?
 
 
# Skip_NC 2012-11-07 14:00
Angus, under the surface, Obama is quite hawkish on foreign policy. In terms of the independence debate, I really don't think it matters who won.
 
 
# Mac 2012-11-07 07:29
Political interference by a third party in the democratic process. Why were the PP invited to talks at the Tory conference? Why are leaders of the PP meeting with both Labour and the Tories in Scotland? The whole thing stinks.
 
 
# Soloman 2012-11-07 07:54
[Newsnet Comment:   Newsnet is aware that the Scottish Conservatives were angered by yesterday's report.  Conservative figures have criticised this site, saying that we failed to contact them for a statement before publishing the allegations detailed in the Spanish media.

However Newsnet Scotland has in the past made repeated attempts to contact the Scottish Conservatives for a statement on a story prior to publication.  All our attempts have been ignored by the party, which even refuses to acknowledge our repeated requests to be added to the party's press mailing list.

We have also contacted Scottish Labour to seek clarification on claims by Mr González Pons that a meeting has been scheduled in December between himself, Conservative and Labour representatives .]

What's that saying again.........First they ignore you.......

A BIG WELL DONE to Newsnet Scotland
 
 
# Jim Johnston 2012-11-07 08:23
Thank you NNS, you've kicked over the Unionist bucket of swill and now they are scrambling round on all fours to contain their filth. Absolutely brilliant.

I'll watch Westminster PMQ's today with interest to see if the SNP are allowed to question what the hell a Tory PM is doing stirring up muck in the EU. Davidson certainly wasn't the "brain" behind this secret arrangement.

Lamont better go on the sick for tomorrows FMQ, she is in for a "Hellofa a beating". Labour / PP (Franco) in bed together ?, the International Brigade would hang them by the ears.
 
 
# Willow 2012-11-07 08:27
Sorry this is OT but the BBC have opened up a HYS on the FM

bbc.co.uk/.../...

Also

"Who were the First Ministers of Scotland?"

bbc.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Breeks 2012-11-07 08:30
"....we failed to contact them for a statement before publishing the allegations detailed in the Spanish media".

Unlike the more supine mainstream media who all know their place.

Perhaps Mr Pons wasn't aware of the media situation in Scotland. Why else would he be holding meetings with Ruth Davidson instead of someone important?

However, we're asked to believe there were no agreements or any skullduggery planned in secret, - but we all know how far you can trust a Tory.
 
 
# Wansanshoo 2012-11-07 08:33
Leading “No Campaigners” to meet a representative from a party which was formed by a fascist who served in Franco’s authoritarian dictatorship.

Illegal wars, weapons of mass destruction on the Clyde and partnerships with political organisations rooted in fascism.

Better Together are we?
 
 
# catalan_01 2012-11-12 22:28
[quote name="Wansanshoo"]Leading “No Campaigners” to meet a representative from a party which was formed by a fascist who served in Franco’s authoritarian dictatorship./quote]
Not only, if you can read PP's wikipedia page in german (maybe with google translate) you can notice that also nazis who served in Hitler's authoritarian dictatorship were also there. See about: Franz Josef Strauss.
 
 
# govanite 2012-11-07 08:41
Let me assure everyone here that Govan will be remaining solidly Scottish after a Yes vote.
 
 
# cokynutjoe 2012-11-07 08:42
"No Pasaran!" Wansanshoo, "No Pasaran!"
 
 
# balgayboy 2012-11-07 08:52
Well done NNS on this story. Need to keep the pressure on these so called scottish tories and labour party's. Is it possible to implement FOI to discover what was discussed at this meeting?
 
 
# From The Suburbs 2012-11-07 08:52
O/T Heard on GMS Paul Martin's churlish remarks about Alex Salmond this morning.

Perhaps he might reflect that when his father was being attacked by the Tory Toffs about his working class roots Alex Salmond graciously spoke up for Mick.

That is the mark of a gentleman which contrasts with the venomous hatred that now infests the once ethical Labour Party.
 
 
# call me dave 2012-11-07 10:53
# From The Suburbs

Hear Hear!

# Dowanhill
@;)
 
 
# clootie 2012-11-07 13:07
Well said - From the Suburbs
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-11-07 09:02
O/T A couple of things
On BBC website comments open on 'Alex Salmond becomes longest-serving Scottish first minister'
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Rare event.

Also Call Kaye talking about MP's taking time off from the House of Commons, mainly the Tory in 'Im a Celeb'
But surely she should be talking about an MP closer to home (well when he is in the country) that has hardly been in the House of commons - Gordon Brown
 
 
# Jo Bloggs 2012-11-07 09:03
Did the Spanish article not say meetings with "senior" figures in the Conservative Party. Could it be that Ruth Davidson, hardly a senior figure, has been kept out of the loop in order for her to be able to 'credibly' deny the claims?
 
 
# Willie Hogg 2012-11-07 09:04
"in the hope of securing a resolution in the European Parliament that newly independent countries formed from part of an existing member state would be expelled from the EU." Is this not a description of the rUK as well as an independent Scotland?
 
 
# mmarsattacks 2012-11-07 10:50
I suspect that would suit them just fine.
 
 
# Mei 2012-11-07 09:22
 
 
# Marga B 2012-11-07 09:30
Article from 2003, Mei. But not only the PP, the socialists continued to fund the Francisco Franco foundation, which holds papers that are not available for public research, and has recently involved itself in politics by criticising the Catalan nationalists.

In some ways things are worse than 10 years ago, because the extreme right wing have become emboldened, the socialist party has collapsed and was continuist anyway. Now the economic crisis and an absolute majority are combining to produce what at times feels like a fascist revival.
 
 
# J Wil 2012-11-07 09:25
I hope Obama's re-election means that good will prevail and that also applies to Scotland when people are sickened by the negativity and lies of the unionists and their media supporters.

Not sure how Magnus Gardham and Iain Bell can both be employed by the same newspaper. Especially Gardham whose form of political comment is in the gutter.
 
 
# southernscot 2012-11-07 09:59
Is it just me or the fact the Tories are voicing about an EU referendum in the UK and withdrawing from Human rights legislation, should we be worried as the EU is the "elephant in the room" so to speak, when we have our referendum and removal of human rights legislation will leave us open to electoral abuse. With little recourse at ECJ.
 
 
# Fungus 2012-11-07 10:08
Quote:
Newsnet is aware that the Scottish Conservatives were angered by yesterday's report.


Good. When you lift a stone and let the light under, the creatures of the dark always scurry about. Scots fought and died to help the Catalonians against this odious bunch, that the Tories are coorying up to them is not surprising but the Labour Party......
 
 
# alexb 2012-11-07 10:16
Why are we getting ourselves in a "stushie" over E.U membership? According to a news report yesterday, the auditors of this organisation, have, for the eighteenth time, refused to sign-off the accounts. On this occasion, it,s because of a "missing" £8 billion. Now they aren,t alleging it,s down to fraud, well not all of it, just that the accounting system is so complicated they can,t find out where it,s gone. So I pose the question. Why should we want to belong to this obviously disfunctional organisation when there are alternatives available?
 
 
# amfraeembro 2012-11-07 10:36
@Old Smokey
You will notice the article is on www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk and not www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/. It seems that it's only BBC Scotland that blocks comments.
 
 
# hiorta 2012-11-07 10:56
All the desperate efforts of Unionists, whether Euro or domestic, are designed to distract from the observable truths that the Scottish Government is streets ahead in politically serving their constituents.
Folk notice and will choose the well buttered bread every time.
The Unionists have only weasel words.
 
 
# velofello 2012-11-07 11:31
i don't understand all this handwringing over EU membership. In or out of the EU an independent Scotland will have earth given assets to trade that cannot be transferred out of Scotland - like Transit van assembly can be transferred from England to Turkey, and Turkey a non EU country! And these Scottish assets, scarce resources, are in big demand.
Much has been written over the value of oil and gas resources remaining in the North Sea, I've yet to see a value put on the fishing assets of an independent Scotland, a renewable asset if correctly managed.
And Scotland's geographic location makes it likely that the USA will want to be best friends with us.
A question for the geologists among us. Was the Earth's production of oil and gas a once -off event, or is it an ongoing process? What is the distillation time period to convert from raw material to hydrocarbons?
 
 
# amfraeembro 2012-11-07 11:41
I'm not a geologist, but as I understand it, if it is an ongoing process, it's a very, very slow one.
We're effectively taking millions of years worth of carbon deposits and burning them all up over a few decades.
 
 
# exel 2012-11-07 12:57
velofello 2012-11-07 11:31

Has it not occurred to you that there is an election at Holyrood in 2016?

So why are the SNP via their puppets in the YES camp still not making it clear to the electorate what a YES vote does mean instead of feeding this stupid “IN/ OUT shake it all about” RED HERRING? The EU and NATO are thing which can wait until after the referendum and the secession negotiations.

This is simply electioneering and shows the contempt all politicians have for the voters.
 
 
# Nautilus 2012-11-07 11:38
Beware the Tories saying 'We have no Plans......' It usually means the opposite as has been seen re- many leaked documents in the past.

Just don't believe a word.
 
 
# Silverytay 2012-11-07 12:07
They dont like it when the ball is on the other foot .
It is alright for their friends in the media to call A.S fascist , hitler and all the other names they call him but when they get caught conspiring with fascists to undermine Scotland , they cry foul and say you should have spoken to us first .
Considering the original article was in a catalan newspaper , is anyone surprised that our own media has not ran with this story ?
Keep up the good work N.N.S , I have managed to get my first convert this morning due to N.N.S and W.O.S .
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-11-07 12:17
Can I just say, beware of distractions on the road to independence

We will, over the next 2 years will have various stories thrown at us, in which we feel we are compelled to answer. But that is exactly what is expected. The more time you spend debating such issues of being in or out of the EU or NATO or what ever, means less time debating what it means to be independent. Once we are independent you can start choosing the colours of the drapes.
Ive lost count of the number of (bizarre) stories in the unionist press, which is meant to waste time, such as one I spotted in the Scotsman about Scotland having to find lots of money to set up Embassies. Focus on the big picture and that is about controlling our own destiny and joining the other independent countries
 
 
# Angusman 2012-11-07 12:31
We shouldn't be too surprised at Ruth Davidson's antics in Birmingham. After all she hails from the party that brought us (like it or not) Margaret Thatcher and the worst excesses of government in modern times. Many of us remember to vividly the miners strike, 3 million unemployment, the Poll Tax in Scotland, 10% inflation and economic policy that was often described as "experimental" at best.
 
 
# Big Eye 2012-11-07 12:38
I would not advise getting excited about an Obama victory. He is not going to solve the debt or job problems. The USA is in deep economic trouble and love them or hate them that is not good news for the world economy.

Tough times ahead I fear.
 
 
# Leswil 2012-11-07 12:57
Old Smokey

Hi, what works for me is to take a contrarian view of anything the Unionist Conspiracy" says.

If they say it is good for us, it is not, it is good for them.
If they say it is bad for us, believe it is good for us.
This approach has always worked for me when they bring out anything new. Either to confront us with, or being nice.

We are in a full blown conspiracy that will get worse. They are what they are, they need what they need, and we will continue to be robbed of the necessaries of life until we stop it.
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-11-07 13:14
Scotland,Scotti sh papers and BBC Scotland(!) await Scotland's Tories and Labour Scotland responses to these stories,re the late General Franco's political allies.
"We have also contacted Scottish Labour to seek clarification on claims by Mr González Pons that a meeting has been scheduled in December between himself, Conservative and Labour representatives "..
Reprehensible and unforgivable if these stories are true.
Many Scots died fighting Franco in the Spanish Civil War.
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-11-07 13:19
BBC Scotland celebrate Alex Salmond's achievement in becoming Scotland's longest serving First Minister by conducting a very fair interview.

bbc.co.uk/.../...

Nah, kidding. They get Hayley Millar to harangue him about what he's going to do when he fails to win the referendum.
 
 
# cuckooshoe 2012-11-07 17:00
Quoting GrassyKnollingt on:
BBC Scotland celebrate Alex Salmond's achievement in becoming Scotland's longest serving First Minister by conducting a very fair interview.

bbc.co.uk/.../...

Nah, kidding. They get Hayley Millar to harangue him about what he's going to do when he fails to win the referendum.


Will Ms Mllar be asking leaders of the other political parties what they will do if Scotland votes no?.. Or, better still, when Scotland votes yes? Using her logic they owe it to the Scottish people to tell them what their plans are..
 
 
# Alan75 2012-11-07 13:23
Can’t help thinking that Cameron is seriously considering finding a way for the UK to leave the EU.
He could hold a referendum but why not wait for two years, perhaps just after the Scottish referendum – no need before it.
He could strike a deal prior that all new states to the EU need to re-apply. If the EU rejects this approach then he can easily blame his scapegoat, Davidson for stirring up trouble – a practiced u turn will be swiftly performed.
If however he is successful, then Scotland votes for Independence, he as PM of the RoUK simply won’t bother re-applying to the EU. Leaving the EU saves him billions in payments to the EU each year – which will part compensate for the loss of Scotland, unites his party behind him and guarantees himself the PM role in 2016.
Perhaps this meeting wasn’t actually about sabotaging Scotland but setting the scene for the RoUKs future- thoughts?
 
 
# J Wil 2012-11-07 16:47
All you hear from the Westminster Tories these days is the word independence.

However, it's not about Scotland's independence. It's about the UK getting independence from Europe.

UK independence - good.
Scottish independence - bad.
 
 
# src19 2012-11-07 14:18
Kinda on topic more dirty tricks from the ConLib's :- thescottishsun.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Jim Johnston 2012-11-07 15:16
Hi src19,
Very bad fact for Unionists to swallow.
Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

Blair Jenkins hit the nail right on the head, every number coming out of the treasury needs to be carefully double checked.
No mistake in presenting as fact this misinformation, or the propaganda reason for it from Westminster. It was absolutely intended to support the walking dead Union case.

They don't know what day of the week it is never mind a ten year gap in comparison data dates.
 
 
# Davy 2012-11-07 15:12
An excellent article NNS but somehow I am not that surprised, if anyone was going to stab Scotland in the back it would be the torys (nobles).

Long may their party stagnate in their own deceit.
 
 
# bringiton 2012-11-07 15:20
An independent Scotland might block England's request for membership.
Time we started putting the boot on the other foot.
The fear that the unionists keep on about is not fear for what might happen to the 5 million or so Scottish souls after independence but what might befall their beloved England (Westminster).
Loss of revenue.
Loss of status.
Loss of jobs (Scottish MPs)
Loss of credibility (once their neoliberal agenda is exposed for the corporate manipulation that it really is).
Loss of trust (if there is any left).

So...much to lose for our unionist friends and much to gain for Scotland.
 
 
# maisiedotts 2012-11-07 15:29
O/T Severin's off again

guardian.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Robabody 2012-11-07 15:52
Well done Newsnet, a little gem of a revelation. RED, white and blue faces all round in the conniving Tory camp.
 
 
# velofello 2012-11-07 17:12
Exel! Long time no read?

Yes I am aware that a referendum is scheduled for the Autumn of 2014, the single question being independence, yes or no. And yes that a election to elect next the Scottish government government will take place in 2016.
Old Smokey has answered for me "various stories thrown at us over the next two years we are compelled to answer"-i was out howkin' tatties in the rain.
I attended a Yes campaign meeting in South Ayrshire, Sunday past.i did not detect any sense or hint of the Yes campaigners being puppets of the SNP. Care to share your knowledge of this with me?
Talking of politicians' contempt for the voting public what progress have you made in ejecting Eric Joyce from his parliament seat. He is your MP isn't he?
 
 
# Piemonteis 2012-11-07 18:38
That is good to hear about the South Ayrshire meeting, as its a general worry of mine.

Can you give any indication as to the direction/attendees at the meeting? And particularly your view of the independence of the campaign?

I'm abroad at the moment, so won't have the chance to attend any of the meetings.
 
 
# exel 2012-11-08 00:03
vellofello Hi
You wrote: “I attended a Yes campaign meeting in South Ayrshire, Sunday past.”

Was this a public meeting and did they answer any of Old Smokey’s questions?

Like him I despair over the lack of information coming from the YES campaign.

Who the heck is Eric Joyce, sounds like a relative of “Lord HAW_HAW” of WWII fame?

How do you manage such a busy life, between “howkin tatties in the rain” and working the strings of the YES campaign?
 
 
# Embra 2012-11-07 19:17
Slightly OT

AS should sue the BBC over it's reporting of him being the longest serving First Minister.

If websites can't get away with repeating rumours, speculation or even links to such material, how can the BBC get away with "although there is no evidence for this" before saying something slanderous about AS, as they did last night?

Surely AS would have a very strong case against the BBC, as they admitted on air that they have no evidence to back up such a claim that THEY made!
 
 
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-11-07 23:06
Embra it is because there is only defamation in Scots Law which has to demonstrate real damage to the person's standing or earnings within the community as a result of the errant claim made.

That's why there is a long tradition in Scottish Politics of 'flyteing' - the writing of satirical pamphlets on Scottish politicians. A modern day example is BBC Scotlandshire's web pages.

What this attack shows just how facile the premise of Scotland 'Better Together' in fact is. Nearly two years to go and their only policy is to attack Salmond.
 
 
# J Wil 2012-11-07 19:41
O/T Donald Trump in trouble in Americay.

"Trump hastily backtracks over calls for a 'revolution' after branding Obama's re-election a 'disgusting injustice'"


"'Donald Trump, who has driven well past the last exit to relevance and veered into something closer to irresponsible..."


Read more: dailymail.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# velofello 2012-11-07 20:42
Piemonteis: The Yes campaign are arranging inaugural meetings throughout Scotland and so I'd expect it will be a few weeks before there is further development in South Ayrshire. If you haven't yet you can sign up via their website.
I haven't any connection with the Yes campaign organisation other than having signed to help as best I can, and attend the meeting I referred to.
 
 
# colin8652 2012-11-07 20:43
 
 
# EphemeralDeception 2012-11-07 21:13
Thanks for the link.

The comment from the Labour MSP shows that the No campaign are obsessed with process and have absolutely nada, zilch and zero to actually offer the people in Scotland

It is a tragedy that Labour have fallen so low.

Here follows a parody of the unionist position:
look, look he didn't ask first.
He didn't check that the referendul might be challenged.
Did he ask for advice?
My god, did they even get advice?

etc etc etc. B O R I N G! Boring, deflection.


Who the funk cares? The people of Scotland wanted a referendum regardless of the EU and that is what we are going to get.
The real question. What NEW has the UK to offer to people in Scotland?
 
 
# bringiton 2012-11-07 23:29
The UK (Westminster) doesn't offer it Takes.
 
 
# Early Ball 2012-11-07 22:09
BBC Editor's picks a tad dodgy?

Editors' PicksAll Comments (655)
Comment number 497. Crossflory
5 HOURS AGO
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.



0
Comment number 453. Arber Gega
6 HOURS AGO
I can not imagine Scotland leaving the UK. If the bulk of Scottish people have a problem with how the rest of the UK is treating them then the rest of the UK should do something about it. Otherwise they are going to lose a very dear friend that is Scotland.

If the rest of the UK does not correct all the wrongs then guys like Alex Salmond will be able to easily fuel patriotism among Scots.
 
 
# mudfries 2012-11-07 22:22
Is there nobody the torys wont work with to hold Scotland back! watch this space - they'll have a secret meeting with darth vadar next! "Mr vadar, we know where the rebel base is (theyll give him wee ecks address at this point) do you think you could have the death star repaired in time to strike before 2014?" I know, I know! he's only a fictional character, like Johann Lamont and Ruth Davidson.
 
 
# Ysabelle 2012-11-07 22:38
Thanks for this article and the previous one, NNS. It's something that definitely needs to be investigated further since it raises all sorts of questions about how far the opposition are willing to go.

I honestly don't know how anyone in Scottish politics would even consider this a good idea since, if the YES campaign wins, this could end their political career forever. At least in Scotland. Who wants to vote for a politician with a track record of conspiring with another country against their own citizens?
 
 
# velofello 2012-11-08 00:27
exel, salutations:
Yes the Yes meetings are public meetings, you know they are. There will one near you,go check their website.
Perhaps we are at X-wires on Old Smokey's post, I didn't read any questions in his post. I did read "stories meant to waste time".(wee bit of Labour style editing there).
Seems that I'm wrong over the Eric Joyce MP query to you as you are from Fife. So are you "represented" in Westminster by the Rt Honourable Gordon Brown? Now there's a busy man.
 
 
# J Wil 2012-11-08 00:42
Jackson Carlaw must be the most wooden of the Tory MSP's. He didn't want to answer any questions outside the Scottish Parliament the last time I saw him.

Why wasn't he picked as Tory leader in Scotland? Well that has become pretty obvious.

He must be quite bitter to have to play second fiddle to Davidson.
 
 
# BillCo 2012-11-08 11:47
Once again at yesterday's PMQ's we have an SNP MP, Angus MacNeil, being ridiculed by all and sundry after this time highlighting the Norwegian Government's massive Oil Fund and the genral prosperity of the Scandinavian countries. Leading the guffaws were the Ulster Unionist lackeys who sit directly behind the SNP bench.

Then Scottish Labour MP, Gemma Doyle, spouted forth another pathetic attack on Alex Salmond over the EU legal advice affair accusing him of mis-leading the Scottish people who 'are loosing faith in the First Minister', re-writing the Ministerial Code and, according to her, intending to ignore the Electoral Commission in the upcoming Referendum.

The Goebbels 'Big Lie' tactic, at Westminster and Holyrood supported and indeed encouraged by the pro-Union media, is well and truly underway.
 
 
# cuckooshoe 2012-11-08 16:31
Ireland has a lot of gas and oil in its territorial waters..

ronanlyons.com/.../...

Landlubbers such as myself often forget that Ireland’s sea area is almost ten times the size of its land area. And it’s not just boring blue ocean – by all accounts, it’s likely that Ireland’s waters are full of goodies. The Department of Communications, Energy & Natural Resources (DCENR), for example, estimates that, across gas and oil, there is probably the equivalent of about 10 billion barrels of oil in Irish waters. At $100 per barrel, that’s $1 trillion dollars!

He might want to mention it next week's PM QT.. ;)
 

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