Monday, 18 June 2012 07:37
14 Comments
Greece’s pro-austerity party New Democracy has emerged as the narrow winner in the country’s general election.
The party beat of left wing rivals Syriza in a nail biting contest that will have huge implications for the Euro single currency.
Seen as a referendum on Greece’s continued membership of the under pressure euro, a win for New Democracy will ensure relative stability and a continuation of the tough measures imposed on Greece after two massive bailouts totalling 240 billion euros was made available to the nation.
The result will also be welcome news to Eurozone leaders especially German Chancellor Angela Merkel who had publicly called for Greeks to abide by the terms of the bailout agreement.
New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras was declared the winner after Alexis Tsipras, the leader of the anti-austerity Syriza party conceded defeat.
Mr Samaras said Greeks had voted to stay in the euro, and said he wanted to form a coalition government as quickly as possible.
Speaking in central Athens, Mr Samaras told supporters: "I will make sure that the sacrifices of the Greek people will bring the country back to prosperity.
"We are determined to do what it takes, and do it fast. I will work with everyone in order to achieve our national goal to come out of this crisis with social unity, jobs and security -for every Greek."
Comments
#
2012-06-18 07:50
Turkeys voting for Christmas !. Greece is f****d and is likely to be a basket case for generations.
Leave the Euro and the pain might only last a few years.
Hardly a choice in my mind !.
Leave the Euro and the pain might only last a few years.
Hardly a choice in my mind !.
#
2012-06-18 09:47
It would be useful Upsake if you could share the bassis for your assumption.I have noticed that the UK,which does not use the euro, is in a dire economic mess and that Finland,which does use the euro,is doing quite well.That suggests that it is not the currency per se,but something else which acounts for differences.I had assumed that the de-regulation of banks,toxic debts and mismanagement of the economy accounted for economic problems? For those of us who have a weak grasp of economics it would be helpful to know how things work,
#
2012-06-18 11:36
I saw an article on yle the other day reporting a suggestion that Finland may be better off out of the Euro
yle.fi/.../6180514
yle.fi/.../6180514
#
2012-06-18 12:20
To be fair, in the case of Greece as in all the southern European economies it is clearly not just about the currency, including whether or not these same economies got a bad deal with the euro.
But since the Greeks voted under threat of expulsion from Europe by the so-called "troika" of international banks and a German chancellor, none of which has any democratic legitimacy, I don't think that it's just about economics either.
And because I can't comment again, I think that Cirsium and pmcreck (below) make some excellent points.
But since the Greeks voted under threat of expulsion from Europe by the so-called "troika" of international banks and a German chancellor, none of which has any democratic legitimacy, I don't think that it's just about economics either.
And because I can't comment again, I think that Cirsium and pmcreck (below) make some excellent points.
#
2012-06-18 09:48
"I will make sure that the sacrifices of the Greek people will bring the country back to prosperity."
Mr Samaras should have spoken to the Argentinians and the Russians before saying this. Bella Caledonia has a very good documentary on the fate of Russians under the neoliberal experiment see Catastroika
bellacaledonia.org.uk/.../...
The project to set up a United States of Europe by stealth through the eurozone is flawed and it has facilitated macroeconomic looting (the transfer of income and wealth from the people to ‘elite’ groups, bankers and corporations).
David Malone is running a series of articles on eurofiscal corruption covering so far
Spain
golemxiv.co.uk/.../...
Portugal
golemxiv.co.uk/.../...
Regarding the mechanics of debtors borrowing money to bail out other debtors, Nigel Farage sums it up very well in the following
zerohedge.com/.../...
Mr Samaras should have spoken to the Argentinians and the Russians before saying this. Bella Caledonia has a very good documentary on the fate of Russians under the neoliberal experiment see Catastroika
bellacaledonia.org.uk/.../...
The project to set up a United States of Europe by stealth through the eurozone is flawed and it has facilitated macroeconomic looting (the transfer of income and wealth from the people to ‘elite’ groups, bankers and corporations).
David Malone is running a series of articles on eurofiscal corruption covering so far
Spain
golemxiv.co.uk/.../...
Portugal
golemxiv.co.uk/.../...
Regarding the mechanics of debtors borrowing money to bail out other debtors, Nigel Farage sums it up very well in the following
zerohedge.com/.../...
#
2012-06-18 12:04
Feel really really sorry for Greece now, whats happening is nothing more than an attack on their democracy by a new European aristocracy looking to make a cheap buck from the dismantling of their country.
Dont get me wrong I'm all for European unity and cooperation, however my idea of cooperation and unity appears to be markedly different than the reality imposed upon them.
My only hope is that the birthplace of European Democracy fights back and gives the world a new coherent strategy to combat the near constant undemocratic assualt by neo-liberal fundamentalism that they and indeed we all. have had to endure.
Dont get me wrong I'm all for European unity and cooperation, however my idea of cooperation and unity appears to be markedly different than the reality imposed upon them.
My only hope is that the birthplace of European Democracy fights back and gives the world a new coherent strategy to combat the near constant undemocratic assualt by neo-liberal fundamentalism that they and indeed we all. have had to endure.
#
2012-06-18 12:43
There may well be sighs of relief at the Greek result but these will be limited to the 1% of financial shamans who having caused the problems in the first place are keen for the contagion to continue while they cherry-pick the meat off the bones of democracy.
The rest of the 29% are hoping for survival through the oxygen of apathy and the ridiculous system of fifty ghost seats being awarded to the largest minority party.
Finance has a place in the world as a measure of values but it is a yard short of a stick when it claims it's 'values' are superior to those of democratic provenance and as a result reduces the process of democracy to the empty rhetoric of advertising piffle.
As supporters of Scotland's independence we would do well to consider the experience of Greece, it's partnership with the EU, and the uncomfortable fact that while Greece is paying the price for 30 years of disingenuous spin Scotland has absorbed 300 years of similar treatment.
Will that additional 270 years embed the apathy in the status quo or act as a springboard to freedom from its toxic, putrefying and stultifying hold?
Your guess is as good as mine, but I see little sense and less profit in pulling free from a single sourced merde only to be submerged in a bigger multi sourced pit which is constantly being paddled and mashed towards some imaginary confection.
Surely, we must have learned since 2007, that Big is not necessarily bountiful and is rarely democratic.
The rest of the 29% are hoping for survival through the oxygen of apathy and the ridiculous system of fifty ghost seats being awarded to the largest minority party.
Finance has a place in the world as a measure of values but it is a yard short of a stick when it claims it's 'values' are superior to those of democratic provenance and as a result reduces the process of democracy to the empty rhetoric of advertising piffle.
As supporters of Scotland's independence we would do well to consider the experience of Greece, it's partnership with the EU, and the uncomfortable fact that while Greece is paying the price for 30 years of disingenuous spin Scotland has absorbed 300 years of similar treatment.
Will that additional 270 years embed the apathy in the status quo or act as a springboard to freedom from its toxic, putrefying and stultifying hold?
Your guess is as good as mine, but I see little sense and less profit in pulling free from a single sourced merde only to be submerged in a bigger multi sourced pit which is constantly being paddled and mashed towards some imaginary confection.
Surely, we must have learned since 2007, that Big is not necessarily bountiful and is rarely democratic.
#
2012-06-18 19:24
Okay,I will try once more.Some of the information provided by those commenting is interesting,but doesn't really answer questions that I have.For example:
1) Since the Euro is currently much stronger against the pound than it was 6-7 years ago,what is the problem with the currency?Since the pound has weakened considerably against the euro,it seems that the pound is in bigger trouble than the euro?
2) Surely it is the economies of certain countries that are in difficulties (both in and out of the euro zone),not the euro per se?
3) In what sense would giving up the euro result in economic improvements for countries that choose to revert to their own currencies?How does that work,what is the assumption based on?
The answers to such questions may seem self-evident to some of the contributors to Newsnet Scotland,but many of us are not clear about how things work.Instead of feeding us with links to articles that do not necessarily answer my questions clearly,it would be useful to be provided with an explanation.Since the currency that an independent Scotland will use,seems to be a hot potatoe,I would really like more information as we head into the referendum.
1) Since the Euro is currently much stronger against the pound than it was 6-7 years ago,what is the problem with the currency?Since the pound has weakened considerably against the euro,it seems that the pound is in bigger trouble than the euro?
2) Surely it is the economies of certain countries that are in difficulties (both in and out of the euro zone),not the euro per se?
3) In what sense would giving up the euro result in economic improvements for countries that choose to revert to their own currencies?How does that work,what is the assumption based on?
The answers to such questions may seem self-evident to some of the contributors to Newsnet Scotland,but many of us are not clear about how things work.Instead of feeding us with links to articles that do not necessarily answer my questions clearly,it would be useful to be provided with an explanation.Since the currency that an independent Scotland will use,seems to be a hot potatoe,I would really like more information as we head into the referendum.
#
2012-06-18 19:58
1) the problem is uncertainty. Currencies nowadays are not tied to any asset base. Their "value" depends purely on whether the markets have faith in the underlying economy (or whether they can make a quick buck by putting the currency under pressure).
2) In a currency union, over borrowing in some parts can threaten the whole currency. Which is why in a post-independence sterling currency union, we need the Central Bank to ensure that England/rUK doesn't spend more than it can afford.
3) Nae idea!
2) In a currency union, over borrowing in some parts can threaten the whole currency. Which is why in a post-independence sterling currency union, we need the Central Bank to ensure that England/rUK doesn't spend more than it can afford.
3) Nae idea!
#
2012-06-18 20:38
3) If they revert to their own currency they could devalue making their goods and services cheaper relative to other countries. This would stimulate exports and tourism, bringing in foreign currency and (hopefully) kick starting economic growth.
If they keep interest rates low then they can attract inward investment and grow their way out of recession.
If they keep interest rates low then they can attract inward investment and grow their way out of recession.
#
2012-06-19 09:03
Suomi, I can only speak for what I understand of Spain.
1. The euro was framed to benefit the northern economies and presumably the southern economies were expected to "catch up" with inpouring of uncontrolled amounts of money: they never did, and apart from corruption and stupidity they are just differenty based and so could never do so.
Also there are no "European" institutions to look after the euro, e.g. European Central Bank does not do "easing" of value of the euro to allow inflation which helps erode debt. So the euro is strong but that doesn't mean it's not dying, I presume people who trade in it don't want it to be devalued even to help struggling countries.
2. If the euro economies are struggling, many have other issues (real estate collapse, chronically inefficient governments run by and for the elites etc.). As I see it, the "euro per se" does not exist, it is based on the money of people working in Europe. If the countries are failing the euro will fail if nothing is done.
3. Others have commented on devaluation if returning to own countries and their currency. But the crisis has revealed the democratic gap, under which the so-called representative organs of Europe are finally revealed as useless and a dictatorship arises (Germany) unopposed, which says the only way forward for Europe is federalisation, loss of sovereignty forced on countries. Enforced federalism is a travesty of democracy. The ideal way for all southern countries may be out of Europe under present conditions, even if poverty ensues.
Can things ever improve? Can you fight an enemy (Germany for now) that holds all the cards? Europe is becoming a concentration camp for its people. Strong words but not entirely unjustifiable.
And thanks, ttwapies, that indeed seems to be the "macro" situation. I first heard of the "New World Order" in 2001, and what you say seems to have been the game plan even before then.
And just adding a comment here as I can't do it direct due to the 30 min rule, it would be a kindness, Upspake, if we could all stop using the denigrating initials PIGS.
1. The euro was framed to benefit the northern economies and presumably the southern economies were expected to "catch up" with inpouring of uncontrolled amounts of money: they never did, and apart from corruption and stupidity they are just differenty based and so could never do so.
Also there are no "European" institutions to look after the euro, e.g. European Central Bank does not do "easing" of value of the euro to allow inflation which helps erode debt. So the euro is strong but that doesn't mean it's not dying, I presume people who trade in it don't want it to be devalued even to help struggling countries.
2. If the euro economies are struggling, many have other issues (real estate collapse, chronically inefficient governments run by and for the elites etc.). As I see it, the "euro per se" does not exist, it is based on the money of people working in Europe. If the countries are failing the euro will fail if nothing is done.
3. Others have commented on devaluation if returning to own countries and their currency. But the crisis has revealed the democratic gap, under which the so-called representative organs of Europe are finally revealed as useless and a dictatorship arises (Germany) unopposed, which says the only way forward for Europe is federalisation, loss of sovereignty forced on countries. Enforced federalism is a travesty of democracy. The ideal way for all southern countries may be out of Europe under present conditions, even if poverty ensues.
Can things ever improve? Can you fight an enemy (Germany for now) that holds all the cards? Europe is becoming a concentration camp for its people. Strong words but not entirely unjustifiable.
And thanks, ttwapies, that indeed seems to be the "macro" situation. I first heard of the "New World Order" in 2001, and what you say seems to have been the game plan even before then.
And just adding a comment here as I can't do it direct due to the 30 min rule, it would be a kindness, Upspake, if we could all stop using the denigrating initials PIGS.
#
2012-06-18 20:16
@ Suomi
There are lots of factors behind what is happening in Greece, begining with the one-size-fits all rules for membership to the Euro zone. This set rigid criteria for member economies to opperate under, in terms of inflation rates, balance of payments, exchange rates and long-term interest rates. These criteria do not take account of the individual nature and circumstances of the 17 Euro zone economies.
Then came the speculative attack by Wall Street and City of London banks and hedge funds against European countries, with the aim of exporting the massive toxic derivatives debt to the continent.
It seams to be a cynical begger-thy-neighbour approach of extending the roll of the dollar as international reserve currency, and as a means of destroying the Euro to obscure the fact that Britain is more bankrupt than Greece.
Just scratching the surface but I hope it helps.
There are lots of factors behind what is happening in Greece, begining with the one-size-fits all rules for membership to the Euro zone. This set rigid criteria for member economies to opperate under, in terms of inflation rates, balance of payments, exchange rates and long-term interest rates. These criteria do not take account of the individual nature and circumstances of the 17 Euro zone economies.
Then came the speculative attack by Wall Street and City of London banks and hedge funds against European countries, with the aim of exporting the massive toxic derivatives debt to the continent.
It seams to be a cynical begger-thy-neighbour approach of extending the roll of the dollar as international reserve currency, and as a means of destroying the Euro to obscure the fact that Britain is more bankrupt than Greece.
Just scratching the surface but I hope it helps.
#
2012-06-19 09:17
Soumi. Apolgies for not replying sooner. I have only a short window in the morning to blog on the Newsnet articles. This nonsense 30 minute rule is forcing me out.
Not everyone was starry eyed and mesmerised into joining the Euro as was the PIGS. That being said, the myopia of those countries who should never have been allowed anywhere near the single currency was outsrtipped by those, hell bent on creating this nonsense experiment which is now exposed in all it's faultlines.
This was all about politics and narrow minded/single minded politics at that.
The few who could see right through this game of nonsense at the beginning were villified and laughed at but the reality of catastrophic failure was built in right from the beginning.
Political will without fiscal security and a single fiscal arrangement right across the Eurozone was doomed right from the start.
Of course there were countries who have done well out of the Euro which is perhaps why they advocate 'saving the Euro - at all costs'. Problem is, that is self preservation with little care or concern of the blighted lives and prospects for the PIG countries. Greece attempting to stay in the Euro is consigning itself to generations of penury. Cast loose either by the Eurozone or their inability to apply more pain to themselves could well be their salvation.
Not everyone was starry eyed and mesmerised into joining the Euro as was the PIGS. That being said, the myopia of those countries who should never have been allowed anywhere near the single currency was outsrtipped by those, hell bent on creating this nonsense experiment which is now exposed in all it's faultlines.
This was all about politics and narrow minded/single minded politics at that.
The few who could see right through this game of nonsense at the beginning were villified and laughed at but the reality of catastrophic failure was built in right from the beginning.
Political will without fiscal security and a single fiscal arrangement right across the Eurozone was doomed right from the start.
Of course there were countries who have done well out of the Euro which is perhaps why they advocate 'saving the Euro - at all costs'. Problem is, that is self preservation with little care or concern of the blighted lives and prospects for the PIG countries. Greece attempting to stay in the Euro is consigning itself to generations of penury. Cast loose either by the Eurozone or their inability to apply more pain to themselves could well be their salvation.
#
2012-06-19 09:57
@ UpSpake
There is no legal mechanism for Greece to leave the Euro, or for it to be forced out. That is unless the politacal forces behind the Euro decide that their own Maastricht Treaty is just a bit of paper after all, and decide just to do it regardless. They may be emboldened by the way they managed to force through the expansion of the Eurozone without a complete re-draft, and against the democratic choice of the voters.
I do not think Greee will choose to leave volantarily, as that wold leave their already weakened economy open to attack from the speculators that created the mess in the first place. The country would be stripped of every asset, for pennies. Might even bring the Generals back.
There is no legal mechanism for Greece to leave the Euro, or for it to be forced out. That is unless the politacal forces behind the Euro decide that their own Maastricht Treaty is just a bit of paper after all, and decide just to do it regardless. They may be emboldened by the way they managed to force through the expansion of the Eurozone without a complete re-draft, and against the democratic choice of the voters.
I do not think Greee will choose to leave volantarily, as that wold leave their already weakened economy open to attack from the speculators that created the mess in the first place. The country would be stripped of every asset, for pennies. Might even bring the Generals back.
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