Thursday, 28 July 2011 23:32
29 Comments
by Robert Forrester
When Mr al-Megrahi was repatriated, he returned to Libya in a climate of ‘back to the oil business as usual’. Once the Arab uprisings of North Africa and the Middle East had taken hold in Libya, the US and other NATO members promptly rode roughshod over the UN and converted a civil war into one of international dimensions.
For months now, we have been hearing wholly unsubstantiated claims from Mr Abdel-Jalil, Chairman of the National Transitional Council (NTC) of Libya, that Mr al-Megrahi carried out the Lockerbie bombing. The only time Mr Abdel-Jalil has come close to producing any evidence on this score was on the 1st of April 2011 when he said he knew what he was claiming was true as Colonel Gaddafi had provided financial and legal assistance to Mr al-Megrahi whilst the latter was incarcerated in Scotland.
It seems that Mr Abdel-Jalil was a judge in his previous employ. If this is the standard of evidence he used to find acceptable in courts where he was presiding, one dreads to think how many miscarriages of justice he has been responsible for.
The NTC has now been recognised as the legitimate government of Libya by the US, France and now the UK. There is a strong likelihood that if members of the NTC lay their hands on Mr al-Megrahi, he may quickly find himself in possession of a one way ticket to the USA, with all the dire consequences that that could hold in store for him.
It hardly requires to be pointed out that if this were to occur, it would be deeply embarrassing to Scotland, its government and the Crown Office. In short, it would be a diplomatic disaster for Scotland. Now that the US and others have recognised the NTC as the legitimate government of Libya, the door will clearly be open for these countries to take a much more active role in bringing down Colonel Gaddafi, thus making Mr al-Megrahi's rendition to the US an ever more realistic proposition.
Mr al-Megrahi still falls under Scottish jurisdiction. He was convicted by the Kamp van Zeist Court under terms the US agreed to. In recent times, the US has demonstrated a complete disregard for the codes and conventions of international law to the extent that she has invaded countries, kidnapped and murdered individuals on foreign soil and transported 'undesirables' for the purposes of torture to locales where such practices are par of the course.
It is now of vital importance that the Scottish authorities at least offer Mr al-Megrahi an open door through which to escape his current circumstances if he wishes to do so, not least because so many profound doubts exist over his 2001 conviction.
Robert Forrester is the Secretary of the ‘Justice for Megrahi’ group
Comments
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2011-07-29 00:13
I doubt very much if the Scottish Government would allow Megrahi to return.
A diplomatic disaster does not come close - it could isolate the Scottish government and have huge impacts on international business.
Whatever people may think, Scotland is not a major world player, and the US will quite happily ignore us.
It is simply not worth it.
And looking at the bigger picture, such a move will play straight into the hands of the unionist media.
I've said in another post that most people don't care about Megrahi now. Bringing him back to Scotland will simply inflame the issue again.
A diplomatic disaster does not come close - it could isolate the Scottish government and have huge impacts on international business.
Whatever people may think, Scotland is not a major world player, and the US will quite happily ignore us.
It is simply not worth it.
And looking at the bigger picture, such a move will play straight into the hands of the unionist media.
I've said in another post that most people don't care about Megrahi now. Bringing him back to Scotland will simply inflame the issue again.
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2011-07-29 08:14
Cant agree with you.
Get the report published in full and order a public inquiry. They can call Mr Megrahi to give evidence.
No prizes for guessing who will oppose the inquiry.
Get the report published in full and order a public inquiry. They can call Mr Megrahi to give evidence.
No prizes for guessing who will oppose the inquiry.
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2011-07-29 00:25
Simple answer, No. We have done our part if the US wish to further blacken their world status then that is up to them. Libya is another disaster with blood on British hands. The hypocricy continues with who they decide is a dictator and who is a friend. Hague critisised us on Megrahi yet look at the state he got into over Libya. Let them get on with it.
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2011-07-29 00:34
See the other article in this paper, revealing that Salmond is hoping to change the law to be able to release papers which throw doubt on the Megrahi conviction. An interesting move.
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2011-07-29 01:00
First, was it a coincidence that Megrahi was suddenly paraded on BBC news the day Hague made the announcement that the UK would now recognise the rebels as the government of Libya, and then proceeded to attack the Scottish Government (rather an undiplomatic gesture to a neighbouring country). Libya had been out of the spotlight for ‘days’.
No coincidence there.
Second, surely if the U.S believes in the guilt of Megrahi, then they also believe it was sanctioned by Libya. Thus if Megrahi (a dying man) is hauled back to the US to stand trial, one would expect under international law that the UN would insist that Gadaffi stands in the dock beside him. – or am I misguided here?
Also why should Scotland be ‘cringingly’ embarrassed?? – Time to stand up for ourselves.
No coincidence there.
Second, surely if the U.S believes in the guilt of Megrahi, then they also believe it was sanctioned by Libya. Thus if Megrahi (a dying man) is hauled back to the US to stand trial, one would expect under international law that the UN would insist that Gadaffi stands in the dock beside him. – or am I misguided here?
Also why should Scotland be ‘cringingly’ embarrassed?? – Time to stand up for ourselves.
#
2011-07-29 08:27
Where do you get this "Megrahi ... hauled back to the US to stand trial" from ?
The US couldn't legally haul anyone out of bed.
The Scottish Government will publish the report blocked by those with something to hide, then should demand a full international inquiry or conduct a full Scottish inquiry. Those refusing to give evidence will stand guilty as chaged. Scotland will be a beacon for truth and justice admired by (nearly) all.
The US couldn't legally haul anyone out of bed.
The Scottish Government will publish the report blocked by those with something to hide, then should demand a full international inquiry or conduct a full Scottish inquiry. Those refusing to give evidence will stand guilty as chaged. Scotland will be a beacon for truth and justice admired by (nearly) all.
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2011-07-29 08:53
The US couldn't legally haul anyone out of bed.
and.... when has that ever stopped them !
and.... when has that ever stopped them !
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2011-07-29 02:33
Scotland is totally unimpeachable on the Al- Megrahi issue - but many other countries are very much suspect and it's getting very close to full disclosure time from Alex Salmond.
I value his judgement on when and where.
The UK Westminster position simply stinks to high heaven!
I value his judgement on when and where.
The UK Westminster position simply stinks to high heaven!
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2011-07-29 04:01
In response to this article's title.....NO!
There are far too many questions over Megrahi's conviction, and I believe Alex Salmond is working on a way to release the papers dealing with the Megrahi trial and conviction.
If there is any one on this site who has any doubts about the safety of his conviction they might like to watch this programme from Al Jazeera. An independent Private Investigator was asked to investigate some of the evidence as used in the Megrahi trial. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions from this programme. Personally I know where I stand, and it is most definitely NOT on the same side as Messers Hague and co!
english.aljazeera.net/.../...
Enjoy!
There are far too many questions over Megrahi's conviction, and I believe Alex Salmond is working on a way to release the papers dealing with the Megrahi trial and conviction.
If there is any one on this site who has any doubts about the safety of his conviction they might like to watch this programme from Al Jazeera. An independent Private Investigator was asked to investigate some of the evidence as used in the Megrahi trial. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions from this programme. Personally I know where I stand, and it is most definitely NOT on the same side as Messers Hague and co!
english.aljazeera.net/.../...
Enjoy!
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2011-07-29 05:15
Thanks fot that link Arbroath1320.
Good programme and it is obvious that the man was the patsy, set up by our own Police Force, probably due to the encouragement from the UK and US powers that be.
This has to come out, come on Alex release the files!
Good programme and it is obvious that the man was the patsy, set up by our own Police Force, probably due to the encouragement from the UK and US powers that be.
This has to come out, come on Alex release the files!
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2011-07-29 07:49
steveb
I think the £2million reward the shop keeper received from the USA which included his coaching trips had some bearing on the result!!!!!
I think the £2million reward the shop keeper received from the USA which included his coaching trips had some bearing on the result!!!!!
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2011-07-29 05:22
Quote:
I suspect you missed a "NOT" in there somewhere, Arbroath.
Personally I know where I stand, and it is most definitely on the same side as Messers Hague and co!
I suspect you missed a "NOT" in there somewhere, Arbroath.
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2011-07-29 08:00
From the desk of Donald Rumsfeld :-
Alex Salmond knows what I know but he doesn't know what I don't know since the don't knows have never come out. I know that Lybia had nothing whatsoever to do with Lockerbie but he know this known too. What I don't know is if he knows that the denials by those who know trump the ignorance to the don't knows.
However, on the flip side, the knows in Scotland know more than the don't knows and those who know will never admit they know to the don't knows as they don't wish the don't knows to know. The Scots legal establishment know but can't'won't say so they continue to not know, openly.
Therefore the Lybians who know keep mum as they want it to be known that they don't know when in fact, they do.
Other's know a whole lot more than they say they know but it's dangerous to say they know so they tell you they don't know and that's it really.
In everything, the Scots government know that wilist they tell you they don't know, they have known all along but they are bit players who know that they must continue to say they don't know therby protecting those who really know.
There you are, a simple explaination that you can all undersand and of-course, know !.
Alex Salmond knows what I know but he doesn't know what I don't know since the don't knows have never come out. I know that Lybia had nothing whatsoever to do with Lockerbie but he know this known too. What I don't know is if he knows that the denials by those who know trump the ignorance to the don't knows.
However, on the flip side, the knows in Scotland know more than the don't knows and those who know will never admit they know to the don't knows as they don't wish the don't knows to know. The Scots legal establishment know but can't'won't say so they continue to not know, openly.
Therefore the Lybians who know keep mum as they want it to be known that they don't know when in fact, they do.
Other's know a whole lot more than they say they know but it's dangerous to say they know so they tell you they don't know and that's it really.
In everything, the Scots government know that wilist they tell you they don't know, they have known all along but they are bit players who know that they must continue to say they don't know therby protecting those who really know.
There you are, a simple explaination that you can all undersand and of-course, know !.
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2011-07-29 08:35
This whole saga is a bit too serious a threat to universal justice to take so lightly.
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2011-07-29 09:46
It is too easy for Hague to say what he has said when the underlying politic is to undermine the independence case.
We should just ignore him.
If Salmond does release the papers will it be taken up wholeheartedly by the media, or manipulated, or just allowed to die a death because the public are basically bored with it all. They have heard about Al Megrahi so many times before. I suspect we will, once again, have to depend on the English media to place some significance on it.
It could be Salmond's coup de grace - or not!
We should just ignore him.
If Salmond does release the papers will it be taken up wholeheartedly by the media, or manipulated, or just allowed to die a death because the public are basically bored with it all. They have heard about Al Megrahi so many times before. I suspect we will, once again, have to depend on the English media to place some significance on it.
It could be Salmond's coup de grace - or not!
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2011-07-29 10:51
The minute anything from these soon to be released, hopefully, papers comes within a mile of bringing either Westminster or Washington into disrepute the whole matter will be dropped like a hot potato.
No one, either at the EBC or the MSM will have the guts to continue running with the story. THEY have too much to loose and too much egg will be seen to be appearing on their collective unionist faces!
No one, either at the EBC or the MSM will have the guts to continue running with the story. THEY have too much to loose and too much egg will be seen to be appearing on their collective unionist faces!
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2011-07-29 10:06
Quote:
Would this be the same Abdel-Jalil and the same NTC who are to have Lybian assets, frozen by international agreement, released to them by the Westminster government in a manner which some think may be illegal because they are not internationally recognised as the legitimate Lybian government?
Those of a cynical mind may see connections between that fact, Abdel-Jalil's uncorroborated statement, Megrahi's appearance all over the BBC, Hague's attack on our legal system and the results of the Scottish Parliamentary elections in March.
For months now, we have been hearing wholly unsubstantiated claims from Mr Abdel-Jalil, Chairman of the National Transitional Council (NTC) of Libya, that Mr al-Megrahi carried out the Lockerbie bombing.
Would this be the same Abdel-Jalil and the same NTC who are to have Lybian assets, frozen by international agreement, released to them by the Westminster government in a manner which some think may be illegal because they are not internationally recognised as the legitimate Lybian government?
Those of a cynical mind may see connections between that fact, Abdel-Jalil's uncorroborated statement, Megrahi's appearance all over the BBC, Hague's attack on our legal system and the results of the Scottish Parliamentary elections in March.
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2011-07-29 11:56
When Salmond does get around to passing the law that allows him to release the document, it will be interesting to hear the media responses and the voices that will, no doubt, come out to oppose its release, the vested interest groups. It should be quite revealing.
There are those at the moment who will not give their permission, hence the need for the legislation, and the media should be asking them why.
There are those at the moment who will not give their permission, hence the need for the legislation, and the media should be asking them why.
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2011-07-29 16:38
Dear All
I like this headline, it is quite funny.
“Should the Scottish government offer to bring al-Megrahi back to Scotland?”
I don’t see how this could be enforced and I don’t think Megrahi will be open to wanting to come back, unless it looks like the NTC is going to turn him over to the Americans.
And if he does come back, I would like to see his appeal go forward as would many Scots.
Questions need to be asked and answered.
If an appeal finds the verdict unsafe or otherwise then we would have done what was required of us.
At present there is no prospect of bringing him back, the West has seen their window of opportunity close on land invasion and Gaddafi has turned round a bad situation as least for the present.
Megrahi is gone; there is no Megrahi.
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
I like this headline, it is quite funny.
“Should the Scottish government offer to bring al-Megrahi back to Scotland?”
I don’t see how this could be enforced and I don’t think Megrahi will be open to wanting to come back, unless it looks like the NTC is going to turn him over to the Americans.
And if he does come back, I would like to see his appeal go forward as would many Scots.
Questions need to be asked and answered.
If an appeal finds the verdict unsafe or otherwise then we would have done what was required of us.
At present there is no prospect of bringing him back, the West has seen their window of opportunity close on land invasion and Gaddafi has turned round a bad situation as least for the present.
Megrahi is gone; there is no Megrahi.
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
#
2011-07-29 16:44
Megrahi is on release from jail in Scotland under license. If he breaches the terms of his license he can be recalled to prison. I understand that the Dumbarton probation service was having conversations with Megrahi or his doctors on a monthly basis as required by the license.
One must assume after Hague's hissy fit - throwing out Gadafhi's minions from London - that the terms of Megrahi's license will now have been breached by the UK Government's own 'diplomatic' actions. Is Hague not therefore in contempt of the very judgement he claims to be upholding?
The UK Government in cahoots with the USA came up with the prosecution evidence that 'convicted' Megrahi under Scots Law - though contrary to the actual Scots Criminal Law requiring a jury and proper corroboration of evidence - in itself showing contempt of Scots Law.
Wee Eck and Kenny should take the gloves off, take a leaf out of UK Government practice and 'leak' the incriminating documents that shows where the skeleton's are.
One must assume after Hague's hissy fit - throwing out Gadafhi's minions from London - that the terms of Megrahi's license will now have been breached by the UK Government's own 'diplomatic' actions. Is Hague not therefore in contempt of the very judgement he claims to be upholding?
The UK Government in cahoots with the USA came up with the prosecution evidence that 'convicted' Megrahi under Scots Law - though contrary to the actual Scots Criminal Law requiring a jury and proper corroboration of evidence - in itself showing contempt of Scots Law.
Wee Eck and Kenny should take the gloves off, take a leaf out of UK Government practice and 'leak' the incriminating documents that shows where the skeleton's are.
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2011-07-29 21:28
There is a danger with playing politics with Megrahi. Westminster and Washington are already doing it, and it looks like Holyrood are about to join them.
The bottom line of this whole issue is that Megrahi - whether innocent or guilty - is not coming back, and any attempt to do so - in my opinion - would be political suicide.
Why? Because interest has gone. Westminster is reminding us in the vain hope it will cause problems to Salmond, but the simple truth is no one really cares, bar a relative few such as Robert who wrote this article.
What is worrying is if the SNP start to play political games here over the conviction.
If Salmond decided to start leaking documents, it would be taking a huge and frankly unnecessary risk.
Let Hague chuck his toys out of the pram, because no one is going to pick them up.
The bottom line of this whole issue is that Megrahi - whether innocent or guilty - is not coming back, and any attempt to do so - in my opinion - would be political suicide.
Why? Because interest has gone. Westminster is reminding us in the vain hope it will cause problems to Salmond, but the simple truth is no one really cares, bar a relative few such as Robert who wrote this article.
What is worrying is if the SNP start to play political games here over the conviction.
If Salmond decided to start leaking documents, it would be taking a huge and frankly unnecessary risk.
Let Hague chuck his toys out of the pram, because no one is going to pick them up.
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2011-07-29 21:52
I don't understand the logic?
So it is OK for Hague to peddle lies and other misinformation that whistles around the UK media as 'truth' along with rehashes of previously leaked 'Megrahi' detail along with the concept that Megrahi was allowed to go 'free' rather than the case that like Ernest Saunders he was released on license but, unlike Saunders, Megrahi is actually in the terminal stage of his disease.
So let's not be vague and put the boot into Hague.
So it is OK for Hague to peddle lies and other misinformation that whistles around the UK media as 'truth' along with rehashes of previously leaked 'Megrahi' detail along with the concept that Megrahi was allowed to go 'free' rather than the case that like Ernest Saunders he was released on license but, unlike Saunders, Megrahi is actually in the terminal stage of his disease.
So let's not be vague and put the boot into Hague.
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2011-07-30 09:03
Should the Scottish Government offer to bring Al-Megrahi back to Scotland??
No.
The only people (with one exception) who obsess over the man are those who wish to use him as a means to bash Scotland and the Scottish Government. I'd include in that list, William Hague, David Cameron, the Tory party, Labour, the Libdems, oh, and of course our beloved state propagandist broadcaster, the BBC.
It is a nonsense, the man IS dying. Nobody has doubted he ACTUALLY HAS terminal cancer.
The only exception is those such as prof Black who question the veracity of his guilt.
All the rest is just nonsense.
No.
The only people (with one exception) who obsess over the man are those who wish to use him as a means to bash Scotland and the Scottish Government. I'd include in that list, William Hague, David Cameron, the Tory party, Labour, the Libdems, oh, and of course our beloved state propagandist broadcaster, the BBC.
It is a nonsense, the man IS dying. Nobody has doubted he ACTUALLY HAS terminal cancer.
The only exception is those such as prof Black who question the veracity of his guilt.
All the rest is just nonsense.
#
2011-07-30 20:20
The answer must be yes.
If he is threatened by any of the action posed by the article Scotland must extend this offer to Megrahi and his immediate family.
It isn't Megrahi who is rubbing the UK nose in the dirt, it's Gaddafi who is using him. He was incarcerated in a Scottish jail for eight years on, I believe, a politically motivated conviction.
If he want's to come back and contribute to clearing his name I consider Scotland has a moral duty to aid him. If for no better reasons than to underline our compassion is strengthened by the integrity of our justice.
If he is threatened by any of the action posed by the article Scotland must extend this offer to Megrahi and his immediate family.
It isn't Megrahi who is rubbing the UK nose in the dirt, it's Gaddafi who is using him. He was incarcerated in a Scottish jail for eight years on, I believe, a politically motivated conviction.
If he want's to come back and contribute to clearing his name I consider Scotland has a moral duty to aid him. If for no better reasons than to underline our compassion is strengthened by the integrity of our justice.
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