By Dave Taylor

“England Arise!” was a socialist hymn written by Edward Carpenter in 1896.

People of England, when
Will ye rise like men?
Rise and be freemen, for the day is here!
Hear, England, hear! Deliverance is within you

Of course, when he wrote that, few thought that there was any meaningful difference between Britain and England.

100 years on, and little had changed in England.

In 1996 , England was paying little attention to the arrangements for a far away country, of which they knew nothing and 59% described themselves as British, as against 34% saying English. At the same time Scots were getting ready to vote overwhelmingly for the restoration of the Scottish Parliament and 70% described themselves as Scottish, with only 20% saying British.

Today, the identity of the English as a people compared to identification with the multi-national state is the 3rd highest of any of the “subordinate” nations in Europe that were surveyed in the CANS study.

  More Nation than State Equally Nation and State More State than Nation
Scotland 
60%
26%
11%
Catalonia
45%
37%
12%
England
40%
34%
16%
Wales
40%
33%
25%
Galicia  
31%
57%
10%

On Monday’s Newsnight Scotland, John Redwood argued that English nationalism was fuelled more by resentment of the EU than Scotland, yet the IPPR poll suggests that their “idea of Scotland” has got under the English skin – in much the same way that our “idea of England” got under ours in the 70s.

The development of a people from dependency to independence goes through stages, just like the development of a child to adulthood.  In adolescence, we redefine ourselves and, in the process, frequently behave petulantly – lashing out that adults are “unfair”. As adults, we remember our adolescence with embarrassment, or pretend that it never happened.

40 years ago, I used to get a little embarrassed by some of the anti-English rhetoric that was quite commonly used in Scotland – just as much by unionists as nationalists.  Now I’m thoroughly embarrassed by it.  Looking back, our obsession with sporting success, especially against England, seems strange.  We’ll all be supporting Scotland in the Calcutta Cup next month, but if we lose it won’t be the damaging loss to our self-esteem that it would have been 40 years ago.  The Tartan Army exhibit a glorious talent for self-parody (as well as a remarkable capacity for the peaceful consumption of alcohol).  Having the ability to laugh at yourself only happens when you are confident about who, and what you are.

Today, I read the anti-Scottish comments on various blogs, and the English identification of sporting success as a substitute for confidence as a people, and see the immaturity and self-doubt that we once displayed.  An English national politics is beginning to emerge and, like the Scottish national politics that emerged many years ago, is dominated by “adolescent” grievance.

Scotland has become aware, and there are signs that the English are beginning to learn, who we should be legitimately aggrieved against – and it isn’t each other.  The authors of the IPPR report describe the problem group rather well.  “In our view, the main problem is not that the English question is now finally being asked by the country’s electorate, but rather the failure of the British political class to take it, and them, seriously.”

In Scotland, we are aware of the homogeneity of the British political class.  They are the Con/LD/Lab politicians at Westminster, and their clients here.  They are those who make personal gain, in wealth or power, from the British state.  Cameron, Clegg and Miliband personify that class.  Few here, even if they vote for their parties, would have trust in the UK government to work in the best long-term interests of Scotland, as opposed to their own interests as a power elite.

In England, most don’t believe that the UK government acts in their interests either.  Only 35% now think that the UK acts in English interests, “a great deal” or “a fair amount”, while 59% see the UK as acting for them not “very much” or “at all”.

Just as many Scots see the self-interest of the British political class geographically, so do the English.  79% of the English see London as getting preferential treatment, and 63% of Londoners think that too.

The British political class has always used “divide and rule” to maintain its power.  Setting Protestant against Catholic, or English against Scots has allowed them to do that.  Controlling every large political party made that easy.

No wonder that they loathe the SNP.  It is the rise of the SNP to dominance in Scotland that has broken the mould.  Attitudes in England remained generally stable until the election of a minority SNP government in 2007.  Since then, and even more so since 2011, English attitudes have changed and they are beginning to remember who they are.  England lacks a vehicle for their ambition without an equivalent to the SNP, and the rather white-racist English Democrats are certainly not that.

After Scottish independence, the British political class will morph effortlessly into an English political class.  England doesn’t have much time to arise and save itself from them.

Comments  

 
# Macart 2012-01-24 09:06
Very well observed article Mr Taylor. We still do have anti-English elements in Scotland of course, but thankfully they are on the decline as the persistent voice within the independence movement. Westminster establishment has always been the real enemy of both the English and the Scots. I truly believe we will become better friends apart than reluctant allies force bound together.

IMHO we are ready to grow as a country. We have a newly found voice and confidence as you have correctly pointed out and the next logical step is to begin expressing this confidence as independence in its truest form. Make our own choices, benefit from the good ones and pick ourselves up from the bad. Without the easy out of blaming others for our mistakes we'll grow that much quicker and become that much stronger as a nation.

Just like watching the kids grow up! :0)
 
 
# Jester 2012-01-24 09:21
I agree that we as a nation have moved on and that English Nationalism is at a point perhaps 20 or 30 years behind where we are. While we are being positive and looking to say what we can do, English nationalism is stuck in the "We hate X, Y, Z"* mode.
The English as a nation didn't believe Scottish independence a possibility, and for that reason have never had to formulate answers to a debate they have been forced into taking part in.


*insert minority group of choice. Or the EU.
 
 
# TheNordicCelt 2012-01-24 10:03
The prospect of devolution was an attempt to gain votes for the ailing Labour Party in the 90's. Previous history had convinced Tony Blair that Wales and Scotland wouldn't go for it. He was wrong.
Nobody thought to offer England devolution because they didn't think it would last if the unthinkable happened Scotland and Wales saying yes.
Regional assemblies were offered but not taken up. For the English electorate they see that both Wales and Scotland are doing well and they want a piece of that, however, without an English Parliament they cannot do this.
Scotland's independence may not coming through Scotland but by the English electorate forcing the issue.
 
 
# thomsor 2012-01-24 10:17
The people of England like many many people in Scotland believed the lie. The English believe Scots are scroungers and some Scots believe we are to wee to poor to stand on our own. The Westminster establishment have used this tack effectivly for years. England is awakening to the real possibility that they will be left high and dry with no real power in the world. Contrast that with a confident Scotland moving forward into a world of independent nations.
 
 
# Jings 2012-01-24 10:23
I always wondered why there was never an English National Party.
 
 
# TheNordicCelt 2012-01-24 11:49
At the moment the EDL seem to be the only English nationalist group. The problem is in the past, and to an extent present, English nationalism has been synonymous with racism.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-01-24 12:02
The EDL is not the same as the English Democrats, though neither is an acceptable grouping.

The "Campaign for an English Parliament"

www.thecep.org.uk/

seems to have the credentials to be thought of as a civic nationalist group, though as suggested in the article, they are deeply into the politics of grievance.
 
 
# Siôn Jones 2012-01-24 12:58
The CEP do seem intent on maintaining an orderly campaign, despite attracting their fair share of poisonous nutters, and I have in fact joined the group, as I think an English parliament would be good for all of us. However, I think it comes too late to stop the inevitable march for freedom of the Scottish people, which will in itself be good for all of us - including us Welsh.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-01-24 13:27
"attracting their fair share of poisonous nutters, and I have in fact joined the group"

Cause and effect? :-) :-)
 
 
# EricF 2012-01-24 10:31
I remember hearing that Willie Ross, the arch-unionist one-time Secretary of State for Scotland, was often embarrassingly anti-English in his private conversations. That's the kind of attitude that grows when there is a dependent superior/inferior relationship between people or states, not when there is an independent, equal one.
 
 
# brh206 2012-01-24 19:39
Couldn't agree more. I am married to a Ghanian and my family in Ghana can't believe we would even have a debate about independence. They admit that in the early years of independence in Ghana there was a hatred of everything uk but that has mostly gone now as they see themselves an equal with everyone else in the world. Thats what I want. Plus as has been said before no one has voted to come back to the empire.
 
 
# the wallace 2012-01-24 10:34
When scotland gains her freedom, scotland will leed the way for england as we have always done, so that they get theirs too .
 
 
# clootie 2012-01-24 10:53
Quote
"The development of a people from dependency to independence goes through stages"

Perhaps I am being too sensitive but slipping in a line like this suggests we were dependent. We are moving from exploitation BACK to nationhood.A nationhood that was lost by underhand and devious behaviour of a "partner".

Scotland was a NATION in 1707 this latest con of comparing regions around Europe is a red herring. Norway had been a country before independence from Sweden - it was not a region of Sweden and this is only one example - The baltic states / USSR break up / etc etc.

I respect the desires of the Cornish ,the Catalonians, the Galacians and even the strong case of the people of Wales. However the UNION was Scotland and the rest.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-01-24 11:40
The term "region" is not used in the article.
 
 
# clootie 2012-01-24 11:57
The table is headed more nation than state and is a mix of regions and nations. I considered it inferred by the presentation format.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-01-24 12:08
To which of the peoples in the table, do you wish to deny the status of nation?
 
 
# clootie 2012-01-24 14:37
I think you misunderstand my point.
I do not wish to deny anyone that status.
My point is that the union was between Scotland as an established nation and another nation (inc Wales & Cornwall).
It is therefore a clear debate on that point. To introduce various comparisons can re-enforce current unionist propaganda.This propagada is intended to demean the claim in the eyes of the general public. We already have Shetland / Rockall arguement - then it will be the borders and then Troon ! (sorry troon)
We need no comparison the established facts of the union and self determination are sufficient.
However if I have failed to explain my point we can agree to disagree :D
 
 
# oldnat 2012-01-24 14:53
The article was about England.
 
 
# Scrog87 2012-01-24 18:00
However, the Kingdom of Galicia existed until 1833 and Catalonia seems to have joined with Castille etc to form Spain in the 15th Century. Most of the large European states were formed from some kind of union in early modern period. In fact look at Germany and Italy which are very recent compared to the UK. I feel it's a completely valid comparison that shows how little success the great powers of Europe have had in removing the previous nationalities.
 
 
# Siôn Jones 2012-01-24 13:01
Don't forget the Bretons, the Occitaines, and the Euskadi (Basques)
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-01-24 15:45
The article was not quite right, for sure. As a Scottish child my first school was a village school in Midlothian. However, my father was woulded not long after the D-Day landings and returned to the UK to be hospitalised. My mother packed her bags and we moved to a Hampshire village to be with him. At that time they were evacuating children to the north. I attended the local school and it was a nightmare. The older English children attempted to bully me for no better reason than I spoke with a Scottish accent. I was from farming stock, wiry, broad shouldered and very, very strong. No one bullied me and with impunity. So I was involved in fights from day one. The real nightmare was that the English staff also beat me and always took the bully boys part. This in the 1940s when we were supossed to be fighting the NAZI forces. This may have inspired my political interests post WWII but I did not then or since, blame the English nation for the actions of a few numpties. I met and mixed with the early party leaders and activists in the post-war Edinburgh and have always been a die-hard SNP supporter. I can honestly say I have not found there to have ever been much of a problem with anti-English members. The accent has always been based upon good economic and political matters. So what if there was some bother with, for example, "Siol nan Gaidheal", or other such nutters? They don't last long within the party.
 
 
# Mac 2012-01-24 12:26
Can we say that the English are fundamentally not unionists. They like neither the British union or the EU because they now feel strongly that both penalise England.

The question can Scottish-like devolution and a repartriation of powers from the EU appease the English because the status-quo certainly doesn't?

Have the English discovered a place where they want to be - an independent nation state outwith the EU?

Are the English unionists???????
 
 
# mudfries 2012-01-24 13:46
C'mon England! boot the self serving Unionists and their lies into touch! dont let anybody tell you your too wee, too poor or too stupid to stand on your own two feet! I think you can make a right good go of it.
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-01-24 15:52
Ah! mudfries, the English don't do irony.
 
 
# GuidedByPollard 2012-01-24 16:22
Aren't the BNP and UKIP English nationalist parties? The names don't really fool anyone.
I always thought it was a bit sinister that English nationalists seem to be 'Anti-Anything not English' rather than Pro-English
 
 
# oldnat 2012-01-24 16:45
No the BNP(plus the National Front) put up candidates for Holyrood last May - as did UKIP.

They are British nationalist parties, though like the Tories and the LDs they aren't very popular among Scots.
 
 
# alba 2012-01-24 17:03
Nope, theyre not. There may be some English nationalists amongst them but overall these partys are British. In much the same way Gordon Brown was British.

On-line there have been a few different English nationalist groups, but the actions/opinions of a very few soon have the more responsible English nationalist leaving the forum in disgust.

I’ve had a run in with more than i care to count, but generally I'd say there are those who don’t know the difference between English and British (which is why a few resort to race), but there are also those whose remit seems to be to drag any debate into the gutter where it can be killed off. Understandable, as the threat to the UK from England going it alone is mind boggling! Yet for the most, my impression is they fully realise who our common enemy is, genuinely wish the Scots the best of luck, and are highly frustrated at the democratic inequalities their nation is being subjected to.

Overall, my own experience of English nationalism is I’d rather have an English nationalist watching my sons back than someone who described themselves as British. But hey, being one of those SnG nutters myself, I guess my opinions are extreme .
 
 
# Angus 2012-01-24 17:01
Britain is England and England is Britain, many Scots are starting to realise this.
English nationalism is supremist, Scottish Nationalism is one of survival and progression.
The 2 types of nationalism are polarised.
 
 
# Angus 2012-01-24 17:04
Quoting mudfries:
C'mon England! boot the self serving Unionists and their lies into touch! dont let anybody tell you your too wee, too poor or too stupid to stand on your own two feet! I think you can make a right good go of it.

Aye, but they re no getting our pound, they will get the Euro and we are keeping the army, and they have to pay for the removal of their trident and they are due us oil and whisky revenue, back dated, so not much chance of them making it alone, eh?
 
 
# bringiton 2012-01-24 17:20
Slightly O/T but Lord Ha Ha of Caithness is apparently trying to insert a clause into the Scotland Bill to allow Orkney and Shetland to opt out of Scotland should they vote NO in the referendum and so remain with the UK (what UK ?).
This also goes for the seabirds of Rockall should they decide similarly (except they won't even get a say in the matter).
Why not Arran or Harris or Raasay etc etc.
He should simply put a clause into the bill saying that all of Scotland's oil,gas or anything else of value to Westminster will remain with England should we vote for independence which would have as much legitimacy as what he is proposing.
 
 
# Legerwood 2012-01-24 17:53
I think the article hits the nail on the head when it talks of the English in terms of frustration that they do not have the equivalent of the SNP to stand up for their interests. For example, they have three parties who ALL support the privatisation of the NHS. The Labour Govt started it and the Coalition has continued that programme and expanded it and Labour have not put up any opposition. Remember how the audience applauded Mr Salmond when he warmed them on Question Time to watch out because all three parties could not be trusted with the NHS. Or indeed tuition fees. But what realistic alternative do English voters have to those three parties?

So what seems like expressions of resentment by the English towards the Scots and the growing differences in approach to things like the NHS and tuition fees etc. may be for many an expression of the underlying frustration with their own situation.

I think they would love to have politicians like Mr Salmond who would be responsive to their wishes rather than what they have got.
 
 
# banditti 2012-01-24 19:49
I accept that some of the stories from london are laughable but it shows we must all work harder than ever to make sure we win the referendum because if we don't westminster would hammer the scottish people as never before and the unionists would be responsible
 
 
# SolTiger 2012-01-25 01:32
Totally aside from the more important central issues I've no problem with the sporting rivalry side of things.

That is not "anti-" anyone, that is just local rivalry as seen all over the world in sports.

I wouldn't want them to win a game of tiddlywinks, but there is no malice in the feeling.
 

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