By Dave Taylor

On Wednesday, the Times released the results of a question asked in the January Scottish Public Opinion Monitor, on attitudes to the Scottish economy, and Scotland’s standing in the world,  separately “over the next 5 years”, and under independence.

“Do you think economic conditions in Scotland will improve, stay the same, or get worse if Scotland were to become an independent country?”

Overall, 45% thought economic conditions would be worse, 34% that they would improve, while 13% felt there would be no change.

As would be expected, attitudes differed hugely according to people’s voting intention in the referendum.

“Yes” voters were positive and confident about Scotland’s future economy. 75% expected improvement, 16% that things would say the same, 5% worse, while 3% didn’t know.

“No” voters were negative, and much more concerned about the future - whether Scotland becomes independent or not. 81% expected things to get worse in an independent Scotland, 9% no change, with only 5% expecting improvement.

When asked about their expectations of the Scottish economy over the next 5 years within the UK, a similar pattern emerges.

45% of “Yes” voters expected improvement, as opposed to 26% of the “Noes”.

33% of “Yes” voters expected the economy to get worse, as opposed to 44% of the “Noes”.

They also asked “Do you think  Scotland's standing in the world will improve, stay the same, or get worse if Scotland were to become an independent country?”

Among all respondents, 42% thought our standing would be improved, 33% that it  would get worse, while 21% felt there would be no change.

Again, there is a gulf between the positivity of “Yes” voters, 82% of whom expected Scotland’s standing to improve, as opposed to “No” voters of whom only 12% expected that.

Similarly the expectations “over the next 5 years” as to Scotland’s standing in the world differed. 65% of the Yes camp expected an improvement, while only 19% thought that would happen.

The two sets of questions were differently phrased. To make a meaningful comparison between them, the first set should not have asked about “the next 5 years”, but “if Scotland were to remain in the UK”.

Despite that, it seems that there is a gulf within Scotland. Primarily, it isn’t on independence as such, but between those who are confident about the future, and those who fear it. As it happens, these positions line up very closely with attitudes to independence.

SNP Campaign Director, Angus Robertson MP, said:

"These are positive poll findings - the combined figures for those who believe things will improve or stay the same in an independent Scotland show majorities across the issues of up to 69 per cent.

"We are extremely confident of winning the economic and financial case for independence, since with access to all of our resources Scotland would be the sixth-richest country in the developed world in terms of GDP per head – compared to the UK’s 16th place.

"Year-on-year, Scotland is in a stronger financial position than the UK as a whole – taking all Scottish revenues and all spending in Scotland into account, the Government Expenditure & Revenue Scotland (GERS) figures show that, in the five years to 2009/10, Scotland was in a stronger financial position than the UK to the tune of £7.2 billion – or over £1,400 for every person in Scotland."

Comments  

 
# Robert Louis 2012-03-01 08:50
Proof, if proof were needed, that we need to get the FACTS out there, instead of the anti independence lies.

This isn't easy when you have a biased BBC in Scotland, and newspapers such as the 'Telegraph, printing articles like the tawdry, nasty smear piece about Alex Salmond, they printed yesterday;


telegraph.co.uk/.../...

It would seem that the anti independence parties, and the unelected Lords like to call the Scottish Government a dictatorship, and to liken our democratically elected First Minister to a number of brutal dictators, such as Mugabe. Yet in the very same breath, they like to whine about 'those awful cybernats'.

The rank stinking hypocrisy and shameless lies of the unelected lords and the anti independence parties, literally beggars belief. They are an affront to democracy and democratic principles.

David Steel should be ashamed of himself.

It would seem in fact to be true, that there really is NO 'positive case for the union'. Independence cannot come soon enough.
 
 
# Macart 2012-03-01 10:26
I used to have some time for Mr Steel, but on recent showings I've got say he's proven himself no better than any of the other unelected ermine team. I'm disappointed but sadly not surprised. Westminster and party first, electorate way behind in priorities.
 
 
# megsmaw 2012-03-01 11:30
The continued comparisons between dictators and the First Minister are insulting to the Scottish people. Alex Salmond did not walk up to Holyrood and declare himself leader, he was ELECTED by us! It makes me mad when the unionists repeat these slurs and get away with it.

Deep inside I think they are confused that the FM and the SNP are a party who do not share their greed and self interest.
 
 
# John Lyons 2012-03-01 12:21
Megsmaw, take a deep breath and smile. Irritating as it might be, if the Unionists best hope for winning the referendum is negativity and name calling then we will win our independence. Every time it happens the people doing it make themselves look bad. Just remind yourselve of that, smile and don't sink to thier level.
 
 
# clachangowk 2012-03-01 18:29
For some obscure reason I landed - I think yesterday - on BBC Parliament showing the Lord's debate on the Scotland Bill. It was so incongruous that I had to keep watching as I couldn't really believe it was actually happening

Foulkes had an amendment where he wanted to add the word " devolved" to something. This gave our noble Lords the opportunity to talk for ages about how good devolution was but that it must be realised that Westminster is the boss and according to Labour Lord Maxton ( I think that was his name) should take powers back.

It was forcefully said by one noble Lord and supported by a noble Dame that the present Scottish Government is undemocratic by forcing its will on Councils and not allowing Councils to increase tax - no mention of course of the additional money to Councils and that they could refuse this and increase local tax if they wished. This is an obvious downside to Devolution because you get irresponsible Government.

No word, of course, that the SNP got an overwhelming democratic mandate

I only saw part of the debate but finally Foulkes agreed to withdraw his motion - which, it seems, he wasn't really serious about

I was left with the impression of complete futility where the boys and girls could chat among themselves in complete agreement that Westminster knows best ------- and we pay for this!
 
 
# Holebender 2012-03-01 08:57
The poll results show the wisdom of the SNP's relentless positivity. By increasing the general confidence levels in Scotland they are bolstering the numbers who will be willing to vote yes in 2014.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-03-01 09:43
The poll can be spinned in a negative way, but what it says is this:

*Support for Devo Maxx / FFA = 69.6%
Against = 25%

(7 in 10 every time)

*Tight on independence even if Devo Maxx being bandied around:
Yes = 37.2%
Would like but unsure = 13.1%
No = 49.7%

So neck and neck, as per recent ICM etc.

(*I understand from tables, IPSOS will likely confirm soon)

Effect of independence on…

Personal finances:
Stay the same or get better = 57%
Get worse 36%

Job security:
Stay the same or get better = 69%
Get worse 26%

Economic conditions:
Stay the same or get better = 47%
Get worse 45%

Scotland’s world standing:
Stay the same or get better = 63%
Get worse 33%

So a majority are consistently content (stay same) or positive (get better) about an independent Scotland economically.

Averages (excluding don’t knows):
Stay the same or get better = 63%
Get worse 37%

And the average is your referendum result, which will be the same as Y+Y in 1997 (62.5% Y on Q2). As shown in the last SSAS survey, the Greens, SNP etc don’t need to persuade Scots the streets will be paved with gold on independence (nobody believes that!); a majority will say YES so long as they believe things will not be worse (SSAS if economic situation to ‘stay the same’, 59% would vote yes, likely higher if the unsures said yes as they normally do in such situations).

As an aside, Labour voters the most negative about Scotland as a country economics-wise; even more negative than the Tories!:

Economic situation worse if independent:
48% of Labour voters
46% of Tory Voters
42% of Lib Dems
26% of SNP voters
 
 
# Holebender 2012-03-01 09:59
spinned?
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-03-01 10:12
It can be, but the 'stay the same' must be grouped with the 'get better' as people will be inclinded to vote YES as long as they feel the sky will not fall on their heads.

Self governance, a modern parliamentary system, no London Tory rule etc are value enough; no need for 'and riches beyond your wildest dreams'.

EDIT. Those holding 'get worse' views are hardcore Tory/Labour/Lib unionists who are very unlikely to be persuaded otherwise.
 
 
# Macart 2012-03-01 10:28
I used to be quite dismissive of polls skier, but you're beginning to make a believer of me. How do you do this???
 
 
# Holebender 2012-03-01 10:35
I was questioning your use of "spinned" rather than "spun".
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-03-01 12:17
LOL, I guess I've become too used to 'spin' politics - spin on the brain now! That and too early in the morning...
 
 
# Briggs 2012-03-01 21:51
It's the new way of writing and speaking and should be commended, so some on here think. It shows a language is growing and out of it's 'straight jacket' apparently.

As in Ken Roy's ditty 'Islay was shook'
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-03-01 22:23
Straitjacket. Apparently.
 
 
# Briggs 2012-03-02 11:23
I've always used that spelling.

Apparently both 'strait' and straight' are acceptable.
 
 
# helpmaboab 2012-03-01 09:48
"We welcome this poll as the results show that the majority of Scots see that things would stay the same or improve / get worse" (delete as appropriate depending on preferred spin)

Assume the same results are being reported in msm but instead of Angus they quote the unionist take on it...?

O/T but is anyone else rolling their eyes at the Guardian this week? Yes we've had all these debates and been having them for years. Do keep up!
 
 
# Marga B 2012-03-01 10:38
Yes, Boab, for the expert posters on there, many known to this board, it's a case of educating the English and keeping their patience.

The one yesterday hosted by Severin Carroll was curious - he typically hijacked what is meant to be an introduction to the theme as a platform for his own negative views and it was paired with another article with a negative spin.

See it's Carroll ("but can they") again today, let's see what gloss he puts on it this time.
 
 
# helpmaboab 2012-03-01 14:47
What gets me most is this revelation by the Guardian and others that being an independent country means that we'd have responsibility for, well, everything.

"But what about defence?"
"Yes, Scotland would have responsibility for defence and a budget to spend on that as it saw fit."
"So what about spending and taxation and borrowing and all those dead hard sums that countries have to do?"
"Well yes, we'd do those too. Just like everyone else."
 
 
# Marian 2012-03-01 10:31
Watched the French TV 24 hour news channel on SKY this morning and was annoyed by a piece on the Scots independence referendum because the French reporter in London parroted a biased Michael Moore of the Scotland Office disinformation and scaremongering line in dealing with the issue.

The SNP must reach out to this French TV channel to put the record straight on what the independence referendum is really about.
 
 
# velofello 2012-03-01 12:24
Sc Skier: I much appreciate your analysis. Polls, its the way you phrase the questions:-
"In the event that Scotland votes No to independence and so continue within the Union governed from Westminster, are you confident that":

The NHS will not be privatised in Scotland in line with England's policy?

That free prescriptions will continue in Scotland?

That university fees will not be introduced in line with England's policy?

What is your view on Trident? Should the several billions annual investment continue?

And finally, do you consider that your living costs would be essentially unchanged?
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-03-01 13:57
In response to both yourself and Macart above..

Polls are useful indicators of public feeling. Of course they must always be treated with caution and never in isolation. The first thing I do is go and look at the detailed tables which the most professional pollsters produce; who (age, party affiliation, region) answered in which way, how the weighting was done, what questions were asked in what sequence etc; all these factors can play a role in how people answer and the way the data is presented. Also, it is not the raw numbers that are crucial, but what they actually mean in terms of what people are thinking and that is where people can start ‘spinning’ things to suit, even though the data is saying something quite different.
The media have jumped to an extent on this poll saying ‘Scots think independence looks more risky economically’ because they see a modestly greater number of negatives that positives. However, you can’t equate this to meaning people would vote no as it excludes the neutrals. So some people are nervous about independence. Wow! I would never have expected that! Of course they are – the ‘status quo’ is almost invariably seen as safer by those who are not informed sufficiently by circumstance; it’s human nature. So the simplest interpretation of the result of this poll – as presented by some in the MSM - is just telling us what is blindingly obvious/would be expected in that sense, and of course it is unionist party voters that are the most worried because their parties are telling them to be (presumably). However, what is important for the referendum is not the negative responses, but the total neutral + positives; the people that think ‘Scotland would be just fine or better economically alone’. In this poll, these people are in consistent majority; i.e. most people are not worried about the economics of independence. Hence, this poll is fine and should be welcomed. If we consistently had >50% of people panicking that Scotland would be up doo doo creek without a paddle upon independence, then we would need to worry. That is very far from the case.

That 7 in 10 for FFA is the major headache for the unionists; it is always there in every poll and won’t go away. The vast majority of Scots wish to Scotland to look after just about all of its own affairs and that is why there is no going back from here now; it is far too late for that. Hell, even if Scots voted ‘no’ by a slim margin in after falling for ‘jam tomorrow’ promises (which I severely doubt), and there was no jam, they can just vote SNP in a general for independence with no referendum needed. The SNP are no longer perceived as some sort of radical fringe group with delusions of grandeur (as they were traditionally portrayed), but a competent and hardworking, popular governing party. They are going to be a dominant force in Scottish politics for a long time to come now, albeit they will unlikely retain a majority, particularly in a post-independence scenario.

Personally, I’d love a poll asking simply:

If Westminster does not agree to any meaningful further devolution of powers to the Scottish Parliament, e.g. in the form of Devo Maxx / FFA, would you agree that Scotland should become an independent state?

That will get you ~62.5% YES.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-03-01 14:09
SS, just want to say thanks - thats a really useful interpretation of this poll - makes it simple for the likes of me !

It seems that many polls either don't have a purely Scots poll, we always seem to be a little subset in a wider spread - or that they aren't asking a 'range' of questions as you have suggested.

I'd love to know why this is ? Is there an 'agenda' at work here ?
 
 
# Macart 2012-03-01 14:52
Nice clear explanation skier and excellent work on all your polling posts. It really helps having someone about who actually understands the things and can forensically evaluate them.

Gold medal for sheer stamina. :D
 
 
# clootie 2012-03-04 08:36
SS
I like that question
 

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