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By Lesley Riddoch

Perhaps it's a mistake to read comments and message boards, or perhaps it's the only way to check how columns are received.  Either way there's just one question in the minds of some readers: is she one of us?

Never mind the merits of my first Newsnet Scotland column or the referendum roadshow proposal it contained – the question for some was simple. Is the writer a nationalist? And how can we be sure?

Well I've written for a 'nationalist organ', repeatedly interrupted Advocate General Jim Wallace during BBC Scotland’s Burns Night TV debate, and when asked if I felt British on BBC Radio 4's Any Questions responded: "Born Wolverhampton, parents from Caithness and Banffshire, school Glasgow, university Oxford, post graduate Cardiff, BBC trainee London, first job Edinburgh, never been to the Isle of Man – and 100% Scottish."

Cheeky with unionist politicians, resolutely Scottish and happy to write for an independence supporting news site (which happily pays NUJ rates to journalists.)

Yip – guilty as charged m'lud. But does that mean I must be a card-carrying member of the SNP?  Do readers need to know which way I'll vote in Autumn 2014 before they can read a word about poverty, communities, energy or the Waterboys concert last month?

Perhaps I exaggerate. But since penning a Newsnet column last month, I've had several invitations to speak at SNP branches, a welter of SNP branch Facebook friend requests, and some suspicion from hitherto friendly unionist politicians.

Jings. Is it so hard for people in camps to understand that most Scots are united by one thing – a profound dislike of camps?

As the yes and no campaigns get ready to launch I wonder if either camp knows how encircled, wary and suspicious they appear to the general public. I mention this not as a member of any party but as a progressive Scot who wants the most empowering debate possible over the next two years.

I want the referendum process to open up hitherto taboo subjects like land reform, centralisation, the enduring power of the establishment, Glasgow's sub East European health outcomes, the scandal of Europe's most expensive heating in its most energy-rich country, and the need to fund Early Years Care big-time and fast. Maybe all the levers of an independent state are needed to resolve these big structural problems  – maybe they aren't.  One thing's for sure, this is the way I'll make up my mind about independence. And I suspect I won't be alone.

Doubtless that's why party leaders – particularly Alex Salmond – have called for the debate about Scotland's future to be as profound, respectful and far-reaching as possible.  But that won't happen in a climate of name-calling and knee-jerk sectarian aggression – from either 'side'.

Deprivation, for example, is not automatically tackled by independence (nor indeed by the status quo).  And yet for some indy activists, poverty's only worth debating if it scores points against the Union and thus furthers The Cause. Issues – to warriors on both sides – are only of instrumental interest. All that matters is using them to win the Big Bunfight in 2014. Most people think the other way round. If independence can fix what's broken in Scotland and develop what's overlooked, many voters will seriously consider the indy option. If it can't, they won't.

I understand some folk fervently believe our constitutional status causes every ailment in Scottish life. Discussing anything but independence is like fiddling while Auld Reekie burns.

Comrades. Many of us are old enough and ugly enough to have experienced such thinking before. Feminism – for example – was irrelevant to many socialists. After the defeat of capitalism all inequalities would wither and die. So women's rights, apartheid South Africa, nuclear weapons or Scottish Home Rule were considered 'bourgeois' distractions. Ah, don't you miss the good old days when a cause that beat fiercely in your own heart was always deemed 'incorrect' by some Oracle-like (and usually self-appointed) militant gatekeeper?

Then came the long Labour years before the first Scottish Parliament where those considered 'off message' were simply frozen out of civic life. Only 'our people' got a taste of power. To their credit the new SNP government shared some of the power. Labour's Henry McLeish chaired the Prisons Commission. The non-aligned former BBC News boss Blair Jenkins chaired the Broadcasting Commission. A founder member of the Isle of Eigg Trust (myself) chaired a taskforce to reverse depopulation on the island of Rum. Quietly impressive.  

The SNP's ability to employ the skills of fellow travellers without trying to co-opt or nobble them has been one of its greatest strengths. But are the gloves about to come off now?

Will there be only one game in town? Will a rhinocerous-like hide be needed to venture onto online forums?  Will writers be judged by the presence or absence of their nationalist credentials?

The need for conformity might be understandable if we were living through Scotland's version of the Easter Rising.  We're not.  Happily we are nowhere near the Irish situation where describing your own home as either Ulster, the six counties or the Province 'gave the game away' and meant automatic assignation to a specified part of the unionist / nationalist spectrum.

Of course, self-appointed gatekeepers of ideological purity are present on all sides of the constitutional divide, but some nationalists are spring-loaded to hurl themselves into virtual print at the slightest hint of disloyalty. In many ways, that's not surprising, nationalists were unquestionably denied equal treatment on old platforms like BBC TV and radio and therefore migrated quickly to control new platforms online.

I worked in BBC Scotland for 20 years (leaving in 2004) and found a general tendency to super-serve the Scottish establishment in the selection of guests and callers.  Apart from a few memos suggesting preference for Tory speakers in Radio Scotland debates when that party had one MP north of the border (memos I ignored), there was relatively little direct interference from London. There didn't have to be. The BBC struggles against a near automatic suspicion of anything beyond the mainstream – wherever that mainstream flows. A London-based BBC chief said to me once: "We're all for diversity as long as people agree with us."  He wasn't joking.

The Beeb – tasked by the British Government to reflect nation (singular) onto nation – is the UK personified. So how could it handle the notion that from 1999, the SNP, not the Tories, was the official Opposition in Scotland? Week after week at Queen Margaret Drive I'd point out the SNP had to be included in discussions about everything from truancy or fluoride in water – because the public had elected them to be the Opposition.

And yet many BBC producers believed the important faultlines in politics ran elsewhere – between labour and capital, worker and employer, socialist and tory, even east and west, Highland and Lowland or Scot and Gael – so they couldn't visualise how a nationalist contribution might fit in. Far, far easier to go with the familiar.

That was eight years ago. Things may have changed.

One thing's for sure though. A toxic, defensive environment isn't good for democracy – online, on TV or on Newsnet Scotland.

 

Newsnet Scotland hopes to attract more contributions from well known commentators from across the constitutional spectrum. If you would like to see more of this kind of content then the following donate button will allow you to contribute into a special ring-fenced fund specifically set up for this purpose.

Comments  

 
# zedeeyen 2012-05-15 13:10
Really good article.
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-05-15 13:20
A good frank article Lesley.Worth a second read,and MANY thanks for coming along and giving us your point of view and insight.
Your frankness is appreciated.
I'm off to donate.
 
 
# Macart 2012-05-15 13:22
More of the same please Lesley.
 
 
# Laoch Mór Diabhal 2012-05-15 14:08
Ditto. Although the Isle of Man might be worth a visit. I've only been once, when I was very very young, but I seem to remember it was rather nice. I have an American friend who is nuts about it, too.
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-15 13:23
Lesley if you mean by the great debate, the one about whether Scotland should become an independent country then it really is unionist vs nationalist.

How could it be anything else?
 
 
# John Lyons 2012-05-15 13:51
It could be about anything else because there are so many people in the middle who claim neither Unionist nor Nationalist as their label. Most politicians recognise this, Salmond certainly does with his continual hints that we need to discuss Devo Max or light possibilities. These people are the great undecided, and these people are the ones who will decide the result (Possbly even by not being bothered enough o vote!) So let's be respectful to them and hope it encourages them to come to our side.
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-15 14:12
I think it's great that the debate is becoming more polarised. I was very worried for a while that people who chose to vote Lib Dem, Tory or Labour thought they might be getting something other than the the status quo and hints of some vague local government tinkering.

It's vital that they realise that's all they will get from these parties.

I think in the past a lot of commentators have tried to make Labour more electable by spreading the blame around. In fact Lesley's Quote:
But that won't happen in a climate of name-calling and knee-jerk sectarian aggression – from either 'side'.
unfortunately may fall into that category.

If a person is happy enough with the status quo and happy enough about carrying a British passport I don't think it's disrespectful in the slightest to label them a unionist.

Incidentally I was going to congratulate Lesley Riddoch for not using the term "cybernat" until I saw this sentence Quote:
some nationalists are spring-loaded to hurl themselves into virtual print at the slightest hint of disloyalty.


If only we could all be as restrained online as Labour's Cllr.Terry Kelly.
 
 
# MAcandroid 2012-05-15 15:16
Agreed - Devo-whatever is no more than rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic!
 
 
# grahamski 2012-05-15 13:24
"Many of us are old enough and ugly enough to have experienced such thinking before. Feminism – for example – was irrelevant to many socialists"

I have been a trades unionist since I was 17.

I'd love to know where Lesley met the 'many' socialists who considered feminism to be irrelevant.

[This comment has beene edited. The poster please note that we do not allow personal attacks]
 
 
# McHaggis 2012-05-15 17:26
Sorry Grahamski, this isn't The Scotsman comments section and you will note that most contributors keep pretty much on the main topic.

Lesley's piece is not about socialism or feminism.

The question of how well judged a fairly minor analogy is in her piece, to me, is neither here nor there and I am surprised your contribution made it past the moderators.

The lack of such diversionary tactics such as this are the reason a lot of us actually enjoy the debate on these forums and they haven't been completely ruined by a handful of unemployed nutcases.

Happy to see you post here, and would welcome your views on the substantive content Lesley presents.
 
 
# Angus 2012-05-15 13:27
Thank you for such a great article.
It gets things in the correct perspective.
Would any other media print this? Doubt it, such a shame.
I didnt know Lesley Riddoch is a Scot, thought she was from Northern Ireland!
 
 
# Soixante-neuf 2012-05-17 11:12
Did you not read what she herself wrote in the article above?

"Born Wolverhampton, parents from Caithness and Banffshire, school Glasgow, university Oxford, post graduate Cardiff, BBC trainee London, first job Edinburgh, never been to the Isle of Man – and 100% Scottish."

If there is one thing ths independence debate does not need, it is a refusal to acknowledge people who are living and working in Scotland, contributing to Scottish society, see their future in Scotland and themselves as Scottish, purely because of an accident of where they were born. Whether that was Wolverhampton or Belfast or Islamabad.

Apologies if that wasn't what you meant by your post, but considering how long Lesley has been prominent in Scottish public life, not thinking she is "a Scot" seems remarkably perverse.
 
 
# snowthistle 2012-05-17 12:41
Was Angus refusing "to acknowledge people who are living and working in Scotland...."?

I didn't take it that way but maybe I'm insensitive, he seemed to be very happy to accept Ms Riddoch's views and I'm sure would also be very happy to acknowledge her as a Scot. To express surprise is not necessarily a refusal to accept.
 
 
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-05-15 13:28
Thank you for bring Jock Thomson's bairns back to the real debate on Scotland's future as a nation state.

That polarity abounds is unsurprising given the nature of the debate so far by the political media coverage, in general, in such perjorative terms.

Over the last six months I have become wearied by the self same "J'accuse" style headlines that had become the norm in Newsnet production and many comments to the extent I have stopped commenting.

The SNP message is not about left or right, Westminster or Bannockburn or any of the other distillates that emerge to drift to one pole or the other. The independence debate is about the sort of Scotland we wish for ourselves and future generations.

The debate needs to grow up, it is not about Westminster or Labour MPs or scamming councillors or point scoring but Scotland's future and whether you see it attached to Westminster in some form or not.

I agree with Lesley that independence is not the solution to all the ills that beset and are ingrained in Scottish society but it does give us the opportunity to create Scottish solutions rather than the UK's one size fits all.

Micheal Ignatiff, in a BBC Scotland interview, made clear that what ever the outcome in 2014 the UK political structure would change and greater Scottish autonomy will occur as an inevitable process of the debate.

We may consider Westminster to be in 'denial' but that is no reason to take the polar opposite position and blame Westminster for all our ills. The start point to being truly independent is to take responsibility for our own past, present and future actions. Time for the pro-independence camp to face up to its responsibilitie s when it blogs, talks or writes.

We have a choice: we can either use our anger against the UK Establishment to undertake revenge attacks or use it to increase our resilience and purpose.
 
 
# Legerwood 2012-05-15 15:23
Agree completely with all you have said MJMc. Particularly agree about the 'J'accuse' style articles - wearisome. Recently however it has started to move back to the type of article that attracted me to NNS in the fiorst place i.e. they typoe of article which draws comments that contain as much information as the article itself.

This is just such an article. thoroughly enjoyed it.
 
 
# Macart 2012-05-16 06:30
Spot on Mad Jock, couldn't agree more.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-05-15 13:38
I've seen this lady's work and am impressed, and totally agree with her comments on land reform, centralisation, the enduring power of the establishment, Glasgow's sub East European health outcomes, etc. More should be happening in the Scottish Government to tackle these problems, and especially to take on the elite.

But from what you read and learn, it seems that Scotland is condemned to focusing politics through the unionist/independence prism - proof being the astonishing Labour/Tory alliances in local government and semi-declaration of war from COSLA. Don't blame the SNP (except maybe for being naive).
 
 
# Barontorc 2012-05-15 13:39
Lesley, if there's one person I trust from the media it's you and this article does nothing but stimulate my preference even further.

I really am beginning to see a widening chink of light focus on a fair do, ex-UK, for Scotland and the absolute need for a vigorously pursued debate over all aspects of a future YES, or NO, has to be "a given" from any thinking person's viewpoint.

100 weeks to get that done! Go for it!!
 
 
# gus1940 2012-05-15 17:37
Don't forget Rab - he wears a white hat also.
 
 
# bigbuachaille 2012-05-15 13:50
This is a significant step towards moving the debate forward on matters of substance. It is most welcome that contributors of 'national' standing should make their voices heard. Mudslinging and focus on personalities rather than on policy should be regarded by all independence supporters as negative blind-alleys. We are in the positive business of attracting voters, not chasing them away. I would welcome NNS taking steps to encourage more contributions by well-known, non-aligned individuals. A good place to make a start is on Twitter @Celebs4indy.
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-05-15 13:58
bigbuachaille MANY thanks for the Twitter Celebs link.I didn't know about it,but I DO NOW!
 
 
# mountaincadre 2012-05-15 13:55
Well put Lesley, it is to easy to get suckered into a very narrow argument and forget that this is about building a future for all our people.
 
 
# Dcanmore 2012-05-15 13:58
Thank you Lesley for another great article.

I believe what is called for is a proper Independence Movement that inspires debate and discussion on all levels, from national and regional broadcasting, to civic forums, town hall meetings to family discussions expanding and promoting the 'national conversation'. The movement cannot be seen as an SNP bandwagon. Many Scots who like the idea of independence may not be traditionally SNP voters. And while the SNP will champion the cause and provide the vehicle for the referendum, all Scots must be given the chance to be engaged and energised by proper debate free of partisan politics.

It's about the future of Scotland and what kind of Scotland we want to have for our children and grandchildren to inherit. It is so important the SNP recognise this and allow the Independence Movement to breath and expand beyond partisan politics. I believe if that can be achieved then the electorate could be swept up in a wave of optimism and a positive outlook that will lead to a decisive independence vote.
 
 
# Robabody 2012-05-15 17:12
Well put DC
 
 
# Barontorc 2012-05-16 09:49
DC - 100% agreed.
 
 
# alasdairmac 2012-05-19 15:10
Excellently put DC. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the upcoming "YES" campaign launch will reveal a broad base of support for our cause.

For me, the lead would ideally be taken by a weel-kent figure who is not immediately associated with the SNP so as to immediately widen the movement's appeal.
 
 
# art1001 2012-05-15 14:10
Thanks so much for writing an article for Newsnet. It must be a take a bit of courage.

It is good to have your take from the inside about the institutional attitude of the BBC regarding Scotland and their bias towards the UK State and Scotland as a region. They should really stop pretending and openly declare a conflict of interest in the debate and make that clear to viewers on all programs.

BBC bias against Scottish Independence made Russia Today a week ago. Expect more of this to be noticed internationally and the BBC's reputation will become eroded. Since it is the state broadcaster then as we draw nearer to the referendum then the UK Government may well become a candidate for sanctions.
 
 
# European 2012-05-15 14:18
Although I was born and brought up to young adulthood in Banffshire, after my National Service I spent more than 30 years in Denmark (with 18 months in Norway and close contact with Sweden and Germany) - and it was on returning to Scotland from there in the mid 1990s that the good sense of Scotland's independence really struck home to me. Having spent a long period seeing how other northern European countries managed their own affairs, politics, foreign policy, defence, business and every other aspect of the life of a "normal" country I could see absolutely no reason why Scotland didn't do exactly the same thing.

When you leave the family home and experience "the outside world", it makes you want to be like that. You come to appreciate freedom. Freedom to make your own decisions - some of them good, some of them wrong, but all yours. For better or for worse.

My family ties have always been strong but I wouldn't for a second have considered staying in the family home to keep those links strong. My family links are stronger than ever today - enhanced by my own freedom and experience (that's a thinly veiled reference to the fact that, as I see it, Scotland's ties with England will be healthier and stronger after our independence).

So, Lesley, I wholeheartedly agree that we need greater openness in our debate, media that takes a 360-degree view instead of peering into the wrong end of a self-serving telescope, a population that's permitted to build up its self-confidence and self-belief. In short, Scotland must become a "normal" (independent) nation. I would urge people to take a look across the North Sea - better still, go and visit. And see how the UK is cramping our style.
 
 
# Laoch Mór Diabhal 2012-05-15 14:34
Quoting European:
And see how the UK is cramping our style.


If we only get to have one motto for the whole campaign, that gets my vote. √
 
 
# whitburnsfinest 2012-05-16 01:17
Quoting Laoch Mór Diabhal:
Quoting European:
And see how the UK is cramping our style.


If we only get to have one motto for the whole campaign, that gets my vote. √

Nah, sorry... that doesn't do it for me... too negative and rUK-bashing. We don't need that.

This is the bit that really hit home to me:

"
My family ties have always been strong but I wouldn't for a second have considered staying in the family home to keep those links strong. My family links are stronger than ever today - enhanced by my own freedom and experience (that's a thinly veiled reference to the fact that, as I see it, Scotland's ties with England will be healthier and stronger after our independence)."

Much more positive, looking to a great future and one in which we're on good terms with our next-door neighbours, not constantly engaged in battles with them.
 
 
# Macart 2012-05-16 06:33
For a better union - VOTE INDEPENDENCE. :)
 
 
# Fungus 2012-05-16 08:53
Quoting whitburnsfinest :
Much more positive, looking to a great future and one in which we're on good terms with our next-door neighbours, not constantly engaged in battles with them.


Which is all well and good, a sentiment no one can argue with and a state of affairs to strive towards.

It has to be reciprocal though, you can't be all sweetness and light with anti-social neighbours and the current 'discussion' from the British establishment is far from constructive and friendly.
 
 
# whitburnsfinest 2012-05-17 23:57
Fair point, Fungus. I'm just not sure that reciprocal negativity is going to do anyone any favours. If they want to moan, whinge and gripe about everything, let 'em - but we certainly don't have to do likewise in order to prove our point. There is so much about our cause to be positive about.

Quoting macart:

Quote:
For a better union - VOTE INDEPENDENCE. :)


oooo. I like that :-D
 
 
# Macart 2012-05-18 09:47
Twenty odd years in print publishing has to be worth at least one good line. :)
 
 
# jafurn 2012-05-15 14:32
A very interesting and stimulating article from Lesley Riddoch and one which I feel strikes the correct tone for the debate to come.

Being or not being a Nationalist should not,to my mind, be the prerequisite for having an opinion on this question.
More important is to look at the issues with an open mind.

Just as an aside having watched him both in the debate in question and on tv in the House of Lords and on various occasions being interviewed I would have to say that
"repeatedly interrupting Advocate General Jim Wallace during BBC Scotland’s Burns Night TV debate" can only be seen as an act of extreme kindness and charity as to have let him carry on with.......well you can see where I'm going with that.

I am struck by this paragraph....

"Doubtless that's why party leaders – particularly Alex Salmond – have called for the debate about Scotland's future to be as profound, respectful and far-reaching as possible. But that won't happen in a climate of name-calling and knee-jerk sectarian aggression – from either 'side'. "

This, I feel ,is the nub of the problem faced by anyone who wants an honest and open debate where both sides can be portrayed equitably. Under present circumstances that just cannot happen.

I read with great interest the post from # Mad Jock McMad and I cannot disagree with him when he says ..

"Over the last six months I have become wearied by the self same "J'accuse" style headlines that had become the norm in Newsnet production and many comments to the extent I have stopped commenting."

The problem with that is what do you do ? I don't want to have to stop commenting and I am sure that I won't.
however as Leslie has said...

"And yet many BBC producers believed the important faultlines in politics ran elsewhere – between labour and capital, worker and employer, socialist and tory, even east and west, Highland and Lowland or Scot and Gael – so they couldn't visualise how a nationalist contribution might fit in. Far, far easier to go with the familiar.

That was eight years ago. Things may have changed."

Things may indeed have changed but I for one can see no evidence that that sort of mindset is not still prevalent at BBC Scotland and I do stress Scotland. I think what we see from BBC UK is more a kind of ,if not ignorance, then certainlly disinterest in Scotland as shown by people like Mr Marr and Mr Neill and the like ( it is not lost on me that they are both Scottish).


In essence I agree that

"One thing's for sure though. A toxic, defensive environment isn't good for democracy – online, on TV or on Newsnet Scotland."

That being said I have to add that as long as they (BBC,MSM) keep doing it I for one will keep complaining about it.
Thank you again Leslie a great piece for NNS (which happily pays NUJ rates to journalists.) Maybe more people like yourself will be encouraged to contribute armed with that knowledge.
 
 
# chicmac 2012-05-15 19:07
Agree. If anything in the past 8 years, anti independence bias by the BBC has either got worse or become more apparent/less subtle or both.

I wonder if Lesley feels it has shifted since she left?

For example, I doubt if 10 years ago the likes of David Starkey's anti Scottish rants would have been given the repeated platforms he enjoys from the beeb now.
 
 
# Angus 2012-05-15 22:01
I think the BBC's bias against the SNP has grown with the SNPs growing support, and the more likely an Independent Scotland has become.
It may be probable that Lesley is too direct and honest to be a BBC lackey, such as the non politically aware Call Kaye
 
 
# jafurn 2012-05-15 22:16
Quoting Angus:
It may be probable that Lesley is too direct and honest to be a BBC lackey, such as the non politically aware Call Kaye


I would not underestimate 'Kaye' she strikes me as being a woman who is perfectly aware both politically and otherwise of what she is doing.
 
 
# sid 2012-05-15 22:40
I think Angus is one of many that Kay with an E has managed to fool / pull the wool over their eyes. she may like to act dumb but dumb she is not.she is all there and back again. not fit to lace Lesley's boots mind you IMHO . not a lot of the BBC lot are these days .
look at all the journalists that used to work for BBC Scotland Ken Roy ,Lesley ,Ian Mcwhirter to name but a few who have all left the BBC and went on to contribute to bigger and better things.
Sid
 
 
# snowthistle 2012-05-15 14:35
Well that's my donation done
 
 
# davemsc 2012-05-15 14:36
Thank you, Lesley, for a well thought out and written piece. Food for thought :)
 
 
# dagwells 2012-05-15 14:39
I used to relish listening to Lesley on the Radio and I'm happy to say that i'm also now enjoying her contributions to the Independence debate. It's very refreshing to encounter an opinion grounded in fairness and logic from such a respected figure. As more a reader than a contributor (it's early days politically for me), material like this is very welcome.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-05-15 14:55
Looks as though I'm going to be in a minority of one, hopefully this response isn't too' sectarian'...

A good number of articles written on this website are a reaction to articles from the MSM which are blatantly angled one way or the other, deliberately manipulate headlines and omit pertinent facts. In my book it is these news providers and their journalists that are strangling the chance of any real debate. Is Lesley secretly suggesting that NNS change it's tack and stop responding to those articles for fear of being labelled knee-jerk sectarian aggression
while the MSM continue their narrow form of journalism. ? Or are journalists just generally not allowed to be questioned Lesley, hence their dislike of the online forum ?

And to label the online community in such a sweeping way, when there are genuinely good questions and points raised does nothing to help your case.

My advice is this, don't trust the journalists, like most people that work they are in the pockets of those that pay their wages, question absolutely everything they write and stop visiting newspaper websites. Articles are being written that are deliberately provocative so as to encourage a reaction and get people on to their websites commenting. If newspapers can show a high volume of traffic to their websites, it will only encourage advertisers to spend cash and support that newspaper. If no-one visits the website, especially the particularly foul Scotsman, then that papers recent online investment will prove to be it's downfall.

Boycott the online forums of the Herald, the Daily Record, the Scotsman.
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-15 15:17
Lesley wrote "Is the writer a nationalist? How can we be sure?"

Who knows? I'm guessing not although I appreciate a lot can change in 3 years.

guardian.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Barontorc 2012-05-16 10:17
GK - Day and daily, more considered opinion is coming to the fore in favour of independence for Scotland. To my mind Lesley Riddoch has always shown an independent can-do attitude to all that life throws up at her and this is what we need to inculcate in others. Heartening to see many more breaking through.
 
 
# Exile 2012-05-16 08:39
Make that a minority of two, tf.
 
 
# weegie38 2012-05-15 15:03
Excellent article. The bit about memos she got whilst working at Radio Scotland was very illuminating.
 
 
# Embra 2012-05-15 15:30
The debate should be polarised in my view.
It's not about what future we want in Scotland, as I'm sure that's the same, more or less in every country around the world.


The debate is how we achieve that future, and which mechanism is most likely to achieve it.


i.e. Local decision making vs UK wide decision making on our behalf.

Therefor it is a debate about Unionism vs Nationalism.

There is no middle ground IMO.
 
 
# Exile 2012-05-16 08:49
Agreed. I have no idea what (some) people mean by not 'polarising' the debate. It reminds me of the Rab C Nesbitt episode with the by-election. When Rab was asked by a pollster who he intended to vote for, he answered: "Lib Dem. I'm a Don't Know." The 'devo-max' option is essentially a sort of tarted-up Unionism.

All the policy issues Lesley mentions are indeed central points. They are the sorts of issue that make most Scottish nationalists nationalists. Lesley seems to imply that if they can be addressed within the Union, then she'll vote NO. My question then would be, why haven't they been addressed in the past 300 years? Let's get real about this. The Independence issue is essentially a distillation of all these important issues (land ownership, health outcomes, child poverty, fuel poverty, youth unemployment etc.). It is the key that can open the door to tackling them effectively. The next two years ARE about choosing sides. We can do this with dignity and respect for people with genuinely held opposing views. But when push comes to shove, we all have to choose YES or NO.
 
 
# GerrySNP 2012-05-17 12:58
And the considerable danger in following Lesley's line of thought is that we could spend the "Great debate" arguing about, and splitting the opinion on, so many of these important ideas - when most of them can only be settled by a Scottish government which gets its mandate from the majority opinion when it is asked.
For many years in the SNP I have been asked my opinion, and to vote for or against motions, on this that and the other. While accepting that the Party going to the electorate had to have a position on many things other than the constitution, I have consistently applied one simple test to each question - would it increase or decrease the vote for Independence.If , in my judgment for which I do not claim infallibility, it was more likely to lose us votes when the final battle came, and if, as was often the case (the Monarchy for example),it was something which could not have any action taken until Independence and then not by the Government but by the people, then my answewr was always to leave it alone AT THIS POINT. And that rule of strategy I would apply in the next two years to manyof the arguments which are thought to be necessary now - leave them to a glorious 2015!
 
 
# deepwater 2012-05-15 16:59
It's an interesting perspective, and anyone should agree that most of what's said is correct.

The issues of what could be termed {in it's extreme forms] "rabid cybernatism" and vitriolic "cyberunionism" certainly appear to be founded respectively by denial of voice [nationalists] and fear of where free expression might lead [unionists].

Sadly Scotland's mainstream media and her "journalists" [not all tarred similarly] are primarily those responsible for the creation of this polarisation.

Consider, the referendum has actually been on the agenda, in reality, since 2007. In potentia since 1952's home rule petition.
It's not going to go away until the popular will says it should, that maybe after Autumn 2014, it may be never. The balance is likely between the two.

Irrespective, through the last several years most of the frustration has been created by an environment of almost zero balanced debate. In many cases when balanced debate has happened the mainstream reporting has been omissive, unbalanced or simply woefull.

As Barontorc above states, there are ~100 weeks "to get that [balanced debate] done", but in view of the fact it hasn't happened over the last five years, which is a continuation of debate stifling that's marched happily along for three centuries, I wonder if it's likely?

The only guarentee, without a fully open and fully balanced debate is a cotinuing restfullness amongst the natives - and it doesn't matter what the outcome of the referendum is, or indeed within which particular nation that debate occurrs.

That is my worry for my country as I wait for new policy decisions from Holyrood, first amongst which will include political accountability for all elected officials in Scotland as a stepping stone to re-engaging democracy.

Lastly I foresee a radical impact at grass roots level in England as the Scottish debate progresses, and believe this as much as anything may influence our collective futures.
 
 
# gus1940 2012-05-15 17:50
How do we achieve a balanced debate when we have the present situation with BBC Scotland?

I think we shall have a long wait before they broadcast another balanced 'Great Debate' when Lesley and Nicola annihilated the Unionists and ensured that it will be a long time before Jim Wallace volunteers for a re-run.
 
 
# deepwater 2012-05-16 03:05
Sadly you may well have the crux, only time and events will tell.
 
 
# RTP 2012-05-15 17:01
O/T
I wonder if Lamont will welcome this good news or revert to her usual snide remarks about Goodwin,Souter and Murdoch

Aker Solutions to create 500 new Scottish jobs

Oil and gas firm Aker Solutions has announced plans to create 500 new jobs in the north east of Scotland over the next two years.
 
 
# UpSpake 2012-05-15 17:18
I agree with everything you say Lesley. The toxicity you mention only seems to come from one direction - the side of Unionism. There is little or no bile and hatred emminating from the independence side that I can see but its there in bucketloads from those who see their god goven right to belittle the Scots people and asset strip them dry whilst denying them any voice on the international stage.
The ratchetting up of the hatred towards us upstart Scots will only escalate to a much higher level both domestically and internally. The one thing the establishment in England doesn't realise is, the outside world is watching - this time.
 
 
# Barontorc 2012-05-16 10:38
Upspake - isn't it very telling that the most vociferous Unionists are Scots against Scotland's independence?

Does this have its roots founded in strong unionist argument for the continuation of a better life for Scots?

Does this have as its objective that the 5 million Scots and Scotland's assets are needed to make this Union better for all concerned?

Is it more the case that in truth, these vociferous Scots have been drawn into the system, endowed with the riches, trappings and fripperies of Union and in entirely venal pursuit will stop at nothing to maintain their damned lifestyle?

The games-up for them. The penny's dropped and wee Joe MacPublic ain't having any more of it, but what remains a mystery is why the "camp-followers" keep voting for a Union that has been shown to be ripping them off big-time?
 
 
# McHaggis 2012-05-15 17:31
Nice thought provoking piece.

Personally I've never seen independence in any way connected to tartan, shortbread, anti englishness or any other nonsense trotted out by others.

To me its as simple as it could be -
Why does Scotland need to be governed by a parliament that is as remote geographically as it could be, and politically in a different solar system?

Its all about local decisions that affect Scotland and putting Scotland first. Perhaps be flamed, but if Westminster gave us full control over our affairs i.e. our own fully equipped Government I wouldn't be fussed to depart the union (what would be left of it).

What drives me is Scottish governance (in full) for the Scottish people... the consequences of that I leave to others to argue about.
 
 
# dunnichen 2012-05-15 17:35
I have to echo the appreciation of this article and hope for more of this quality. It's true that we can only hope to convert the doubters by remaining open and reasonable. However I have to agree with tartanfever that the terms of reference of this debate are largely set by the unionists who are in almost complete control of the mainstream media. We are beset by one flimsy scare story after another. This doesn't occur by accident - it's a deliberate campaign to scare the public into retaining the status quo. There doesn't have to be much (if any) meat behind these stories in order for them to be effective because many of the viewers/readers have no other source of information.

It therefore behoves those of us who believe in the case for independence to correct these deliberate mistruths as frequently as we can - otherwise the unionists win by default.

Now I agree with all Lesley's litmus tests for independence but these questions are all used by unionists to cast doubt on the case for change because they know as well as everyone else that any change on these fronts depends on what decisions we take after independence - no-one can prove a betterment case prior to this and, indeed, any early move in that direction simply alienates powerful vested interests who would then cling even more tightly to the status quo.

So, for me, this simply comes down to: do you believe that your own countrymen and women would operate more effectively if their government prioritised their own best interests?
This is a no brainer for me but it has to be a matter of belief because we can't 'prove' any independence benefits prior to that happening. We have to accept that some people feel just as strongly the other way and this is where the bad feeling creeps in - it's very difficult to reconcile two opposing beliefs through reasoned discussion because there is no middle way. You either have sovereignty or you don't.

Where I would disagree factually with the article is where it states that constitutional arrangements will be loosened following a 'no' vote. The very first thing the UK state will do following a 'no' vote will be to tighten up arrangements so that it will be a very long time before we are able to threaten the state again.
 
 
# george davie 2012-05-15 21:47
I can understand your concerns "Dunnichen".

But if the "UK State ... tighten up arrangements" after a "no" vote, I am sure there will be an equal but opposite response from Scotland.

A "no" vote is only the first step in a continuing process.

I cannot see the 500,000 people who voted Nationalist simply letting things rest as "the settled will".
 
 
# Barontorc 2012-05-16 10:49
GD - You're absolutely right, this will not just lie down and die. The toothpaste is out of the tube and will not go back in again, but what is totally unacceptable is biased broadcasting and cynical misinformation from the BBC, which is funded and paid for under legal threat. The printed media is in irrecoverable decline as public support dwindles away with pennies kept in pockets, but the main source of concern will be always be the BBC.
 
 
# mordor 2012-05-15 17:36
I would concur with the online comments. I get attacked from both sides, which is always strange hence why I have decided to play no further part in any sort of political debate as it is just getting far too nasty.
 
 
# Robabody 2012-05-15 17:49
I would urge you to reconsider mordor - all voice are welcome and you should not be forced just to "lurk" - otherwise Sauron wins.
 
 
# mealer 2012-05-15 17:59
A good article,Lesley.I would just say that the unionist parties have for many years done all they can to stifle debate on independence.With the support of a compliant media they have continued to misinform the Scottish peeople.We will contribute to a great ddebate on Scotlands future.The type of Scotland we want to see.But I suspect the NO campaign will revert to slagging off Mr Salmond and trotting out the usual drivel that has been disproved so frequently.This debbate may not become polarised Nationalist/Unionist.It could be Positive/Negative.Polarity indeed.
 
 
# Barontorc 2012-05-16 10:54
Mealer - two negatives will repel - and we need to get the voters to come out and vote - the Scottish Government must find a way to relentlessly get the real facts of the matter into every household to inform and comfort the Scottish people.
 
 
# neoloon 2012-05-15 18:04
Lesley Riddoch writes,about her time at BBC Scotland: "That was eight years ago. Things may have changed."
Surely she still has "contacts" within BBC Scotland? She's still better placed than most of us to find out if they have changed.
It would be interesting to know just what the folk within that organization [in high and low positions] think about BBC Scotland's reporting on proposed constitutional changes.
 
 
# EphemeralDeception 2012-05-15 18:08
A great article and look forward to more. The undecided Scots are the most disenfranchised of all and many subjects need to be raised and debated.

However Lesley is rather shy when it comes to the BBC. Come on Lesley, "Things may have changed." Indeed the BBC may have but certainly not for the better. How do you judge the BBC closing down the Blogs in Scotland only? Closing them down during a period of massive constitutional change? And, only opening up selected Scottish stories for carpet bombing comment from an anglocentric UK audience?

How are these actions anything but sinister or nefarious even?

In comparison, STV seem to be doing ok to me but the reach the BBC have, ensures they have a key role to play in providing the framework for what you describe as necessary in order to open up the debate and increase those engaged in the debate.
Conversely, they also have the influence to lead/form public opinion and/or to shut the debate down and I argue this is exactly what they doing.

Online sources such as newsnet do need to be less pro snp and more focused on providing news and information to a wide audience from a Scottish perspective. Having said that the forum is quite open to contributors from all sides and none.

This is where I get back to the BBC: it is a closed shop and law unto itself. If Lesley really wants to open up both the debate and those who participate in it then challenging the BBC would be a really good start.
 
 
# creag an tuirc 2012-05-15 18:43
Well said EphemeralDecept ion, I have a feeling Lesley is being diplomatic here. Yet the BBC is the thing that's going to stiffle the debate. today BBC headline read "Tory/SNP coalition to run council" where were the "Tory/Labour coalition to run council" headlines last week?
 
 
# Alx1 2012-05-15 18:14
Donation sent as promised.
 
 
# Dál Riata 2012-05-15 18:47
Lesley, thanks for the article - well written and insightful.

I'd just like to say that there are plenty of people, like myself, who wish to have a more 'grown up' debate on independence for Scotland and what it entails before and after the vote in 2014. But - and it's an enormous 'but' - when you have a UK-wide print and broadcast media, working in cohorts with 'The Establishment', intent on not letting such a thing happen, it is a huge, huge obstacle to overcome.

The present UK MSM is quite content to constantly produce reactionary negative pieces from now until the election. Not only do these articles implant negatives within the minds of the 'undecided', but they also stifle real debate by deliberately provoking and stirring up resentment and polarization.

I believe that by somehow countering this 'attack' is the best way to win the 'battle'. I wish I had the answer as to how to fight the power. Right now, I don't. But, in times of crisis, the real heroes emerge. Who will it be?
 
 
# pa_broon74 2012-05-15 18:53
I think Leslie is probably right but the MSM aided and abetted by unionist supporters are making it about unionism v. nationalism and portaying the SNP as the sole arbiter of all things Independence flavoured

This is becoming more and more misleading because the SNP doesn't have a monopoly on the independence argument however much the MSM and unionist parties would like us to think so.

Independence itself is a no brainer, most people if supplied with the facts would accept we'd be better off in most regards, only the most stubborn unionist would say otherwise. The only way they can now see to battle Independence is to discredit and smear the SNP and AS and by extension; the idea of independence.

That's why there is no positive case for the union, it truly does not exist beyond the same kind of sentimental platitudes that Scottish Nationalists are accused of making by British Nationalists.

And I know its hair splitting but it annoys me slightly and I know you folks here will know this already, but unionism is just nationalism, which is why any arguments deployed by unionists about Scottish nationalism being 'a bad thing' are intensely hypocritical, because all they're talking about is British Nationalism.

What this really is: is Nationalism v. Nationalism.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-05-15 18:53
Lord Fraser also thinks that "The 'Great Debate' isn't just Unionist versus Nationalist"!

There are those on both sides who have genuinely held intransigent positions, and can't comprehend that anyone could think differently from them.

Both will have their votes in the referendum, but the decision will be made by those who, on the basis of the arguments deployed, decide whether they and other Scots have a better future in an independent Scotland, a Scotland with a "semi-detached" relationship to rUK, or the status quo.

Pro-independence supporters need to regularly push the positives of independence in comparison to dependency.

Unionist supporters need to do the same for their argument - it still seems strange that so many Unionists have been arguing the need for outlining the positives of the Union for so long, but no such coherent argument has emerged.
 
 
# Dougthedug 2012-05-15 18:56
Quote:
Do readers need to know which way I'll vote in Autumn 2014 before they can read a word about poverty, communities, energy or the Waterboys concert last month?
Voting no to independence means you are in favour of the current arrangements and political establishment which got Scotland into this state. Voting yes means you want to change the way Scotland is governed. Saying you aren't decided means that 45 years after the SNP won their first parliamentary seat that you still haven't made up your mind one way or the other. That knowledge for the reader informs them about the underpinnings and rigour of all your opinons on poverty and every other topic in Scotland.

Quote:
most Scots are united by one thing - a profound dislike of camps?



Is that actually true? The tendency in Scotland seems to be that sides are taken on every issue and the use of the word "camps" when talking about independence makes the issue seem one divorced from mainstream public opinon.

Quote:
Feminism - for example - was irrelevant to many socialists. After the defeat of capitalism all inequalities would wither and die
Capitalism was never defeated and that statement has never been tested. It can't be used to say the nationalists are wrong about independence solving Scotland's problems. Scotland's problems are not 'irrelevant' to nationalists like me as they form one of the significant reasons why we conclude that Scotland should be independent.

Quote:
I wonder if either camp knows how encircled, wary and suspicious they appear to the general public.
The assumption here is that both nationalists and unionists are somehow isolated segments or "camps" of the general public rather than the body of the general public. Since the 'don't knows' in most polls are around 20% then that assumption again seems wrong as the majority seems to take to one side or the other.

Quote:
Maybe all the levers of an independent state are needed to resolve these big structural problems - maybe they aren't
Since the big structural problems have arisen within the Union then looking at small independent states around the North Sea and elsewhere in NW Europe and comparing their problems with Scotland's would be a good pointer to the answer. I would say on my limited knowledge that they have coped better as independent states than Scotland's status as a region in a large one.

Quote:
But that won't happen in a climate of name-calling and knee-jerk sectarian aggression - from either 'side'.
What examples of name-calling and sectarian aggression are there out there. Most blogs and their comments that I read don't seem to fit into this category.

Quote:
Will a rhinocerous-like hide be needed to venture onto online forums?



Again the assumption that online forums are nasty, dangerous places but from my experiences they are not.


Quote:
but some nationalists are spring-loaded to hurl themselves into virtual print at the slightest hint of disloyalty
Why single out nationalists? Some of the comments which link nazism to the SNP and Alex Salmond to various historical dictators from the unionist side are worse than anything said by nationalists.
Quote:
" A toxic, defensive environment isn't good for democracy - online, on TV or on Newsnet Scotland."
Again there is this idea that online debate is toxic. The myth of the 'cybernat' is pernicious and toxic is certainly not a word I'd associate with Newsnet.
 
 
# Holebender 2012-05-17 15:52
Ahem... the SNP won its first parliamentary seat in a byelection in 1945. That was 67 years ago.

The SNP has had continuous representation in parliament for the past 45 years.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-05-15 18:58
Cameron reported to be "not fussed" about the date of the referendum.

Autumn 2014 it is then.
 
 
# proudscot 2012-05-16 11:33
Quoting oldnat:
Cameron reported to be "not fussed" about the date of the referendum.

Autumn 2014 it is then.


I imagine he's more "fussed" about the date for his appearance before the Leveson Commission, Oldnat.
 
 
# jafurn 2012-05-15 19:04
Sorry to change the subject but Mr Cameron has just said (according to BBC) that "he is not fussed about the date" of the referendum.
Is that toryspeak for 'naechoice'
 
 
# Dancemaster 2012-05-15 19:50
I suspect he never was bothered about the date.

Going forward, when the real discussions begin, he can claim that he compromised on the date!
 
 
# jafurn 2012-05-15 20:12
Yes I guess he will but if he says now 'he's not fussed' he can hardly claim later it was a great compromise.
I am only surprised he never waited till formal talks to announce this as then he could have claimed it as a compromise.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-05-15 21:27
He's probably given up.

'I'm not fussed' is commonly what people say when nobody cares what they think after they tried to impress everyone with their initial, firmly stated views and failed miserably.

Dave is an asset to the independence cause. I suspect he's going to bow out a bit now after finally being convinced of this.
 
 
# xyz 2012-05-15 20:10
That was actually reported in March .. not sure why this has surfaced again now. .. Last time Cameron was reported as being 'not bothered about the timing' the Libdems were reciting the mantra "sooner rather than later" .. and they looked particularly silly .... .. but as with all the anti-indy nonsense ... around it comes again.
 
 
# A_Scottish_Voice 2012-05-15 22:37
I think given the losses Cameron suffered the other week, holding onto Scotland might not be his number one priority.
 
 
# Juteman 2012-05-15 20:23
I agree with everything you said, Lesley.
Apart from the 'nationalist V unionist' point.
Once you have looked at the arguments, you have to be one or the other.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-05-15 20:27
Yep! At the end of the day, a decision has to be made between these two positions. However, the end of the day is autumn 2014, and the trick is to persuade more than 50% of Scots to vote for change by then.
 
 
# lochside 2012-05-15 20:32
Beguiling article, but really just fundamentally a liberal illusion of what could and should have been by now. The reality is that there will be no fair or honest debate from the 'Unionist' side (is there any other way to describe an unholy alliance of the denial of Scottish sovereignty by all the main political parties except the Greens?). If Lesley doubts this, then she hasn't really been paying attention to the unremitting storm of lies and deliberate smears being perpetrated on a daily basis by the MSM and the BBC in paticular. Her characterisatio n of the 'springloaded' response by nationalists is pandering to the illusory 'cibernat' conspiracy cooked up by the Brits. Polarisation in this, the biggest issue in our existence as a nation is necessary. Marxism may be redundant, but as a political tool of analysis it is useful in that the inherent contradictions of the 'union' are now working themselves out, in the manner of an ugly boil on the body politic of Scotland. The question is: do we lance it or put a cosmetic disguise on it. Sitting on a fence produces squashed balls..let's all get off the fence and make the choices clear to all the undecided. Unionist or Nationalist is the only game in town in the real world.
 
 
# mitchyboy 2012-05-15 20:33
Lesley, sorry but Oxford or not you speak in riddles and gobbylygook, almost like a female version of Ed and David Miliband. You seem to want to keep your options open, your feet in both camps. In my view BBC Scotland has had long enough to come to terms with the new political reality in Scotland, yet they still misreport and lie. The Scottish licence payers are seriously being short changed. Look at the latest example, according to them Labour won the recent local elections. All focus on Glasgow. I tend to think like Boris Johnson that there is serious Labour bias in fact is not the head of BBC Scotland a partner of a former Labour Minister? Whatever, please smell the coffee. What do you think of comments being disallowed on political aritcles on BBC Scotland website? What do you think about this site often being shut down? Impartial they are not and this will be a serious aspect to the truth getting out to voters in the great debate you think we should be having. Shame on you but I realise you have a living to earn.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-05-15 21:33
This site is "often shut down" because of overload due to its popularity - hence why it has just moved to a new server.

Not that facts will probably change your view. Hopefully, you aren't a paranoid conspiracist, but not posting as if you were would remove any such doubts.
 
 
# Robabody 2012-05-16 15:52
Quoting oldnat:
This site is "often shut down" because of overload due to its popularity - hence why it has just moved to a new server.


New server - well done, when was that announced? And when we do have a "shut down" can we an explanation afterwards as to why? That would stop me getting paranoid.
 
 
# jafurn 2012-05-15 20:44
Meanwhile the real debate continues....

snp.org/.../...

Strategy urged for 'High North' opportunities

Speaking in the Queen’s Speech debate on foreign affairs in the House of Commons SNP Westminster leader and Foreign Affairs spokesperson Angus Robertson MP criticised the UK Governments failure to take a serious approach to the economic and military opportunities in the Arctic and “High North” Atlantic.
 
 
# Aplinal 2012-05-15 20:46
Thank you for this article, Lesley. I would hope that in the future we will see this open, honest, factual debate that you seem to espouse. However, for that to transpire will require a 180 degree turn round by the MSM and BBC Scotland (in particular).

Quote:
I worked in BBC Scotland for 20 years (leaving in 2004)...That was eight years ago. Things may have changed


MAY have changed? Come on, Lesley! You can be a bit more open than that! I would suggest that by any objective analysis over the last few years, and especially since May 2011, things have DEFINITELY changed for the worse at Pacific Towers.

The other thing I will comment on is this,
Quote:
I understand some folk fervently believe our constitutional status causes every ailment in Scottish life.


Not every ailment, no. But can you really state with a straight face that the fact that Scotland has contributed 300 Billion to the exchequer in oil ALONE in the last 30 odd years, and received back a pittance might just have a little to do with the plight of Scotland's economy, and as you put it, "Glasgow's sub East European health outcomes".

To me it's no surprise that the UK wants to hang on with a grim fist to Scotland's cash cow and trillion dollar oil reserves as these are necessary for the UK to retain its AAA status and place at the "top table".

Unionism, or rather as I prefer it DEPENDENCY is about Scotland giving, and rUK taking. Well, I for one am fed up with giving.

By all means let's have your open debate about "land reform, centralisation, the enduring power of the establishment, Glasgow's sub East European health outcomes, the scandal of Europe's most expensive heating in its most energy-rich country, and the need to fund Early Years Care big-time and fast." But when and how is that going to happen? As I see it,never with the current biased media.

Wake up, Lesley, it really is time to smell the porridge.

Saor Alba!
 
 
# Proadge 2012-05-15 20:49
Thanks for this stimulating article. But I’m with the few on this one.

Of course, the great debate is between Unionist (or British Nationalist, as pa_broon74 points out) and Nationalist. How could it not be? The key issue is power – whether decisions about how Scotland is run should be made by Scotland, as is the normal state of affairs for a country; or whether those decisions should be made for us by our neighbouring country, which is in practice what the current constitutional set-up means. Everything else flows from this.

In Scotland to talk of divorcing, say, the issue of poverty from the matter of the country’s constitutional future, is to display the same intellectually bankrupt stance of the Unionists who argue that people want a focus on the ‘real’ issues of health, jobs and education, rather than on political independence; ignoring the fact that the reason the SNP want independence is precisely to gain control of the levers that will empower them to deliver transformative change in health, jobs and education.

As Alex Salmond said, ‘Countries are better when they govern themselves.’ In essence, it’s that simple. For evidence of this, just look at Scotland and its disastrous mismanagement under the current constitutional set-up, resulting in some of the most shameful poverty in Europe, one of the worst health records in the world, and mass emigration for generations – all in a country that has the resources to be one of the most successful in the world.

The debate between Unionist/British Nationalist and Nationalist isn’t just the most important in Scotland; ultimately, it’s the only one that matters.
 
 
# BirdOnTheWire 2012-05-15 21:25
I find I'm not really interested in journalists' opinions or what party they vote for. I would like them to concentrate on reporting facts do a bit more investigative journalism.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-05-15 21:47
How do you define a "journalist"? and why are their opinions of less interest than those of other people?

There are lots of "facts". Some of them support one argument, and others support another.
 
 
# Exile 2012-05-16 09:13
You seem to be in attack mode today, oldnat. I'd have thought the term journalist was as self-explanatory as the term Independence. And I get the impression BOTW was meaning their opinions are no MORE IMPORTANT than those of other people. Seems a fair enough point to me.
 
 
# BirdOnTheWire 2012-05-15 21:44
'Will a rhinocerous-like hide be needed to venture onto online forums? '

What I've found with the online forums on all the mainstreams newspaper sites ie The Scotsman/The Telegraph what you need more than a rhinocerous-like hide is a high boredom threshold. This site is so refreshing because all the comments here are interesting & informative. Thank you all.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-05-15 21:50
Agreed. Many newspaper blog sites are notable for the lack of sensible debate.
 
 
# handclapping 2012-05-15 21:45
As well as the terms of the Great Debate, we should remember that as 70% of the people of Scotland want the referendum to take place so they mandate that the Great Debate should take place.

If the Beeb and the MSM conspire to deny the platform for the GD to happen, then not only will they loose the interest of those who want to hear the debate but they are likely to push people into considering the argument for themselves. I do not think that people thinking for themselves will be beneficial for the British cause.
 
 
# km 2012-05-15 21:52
Thought-provoking article, thanks Leslie.

You wrote,

Quote:
I want the referendum process to open up hitherto taboo subjects like land reform, centralisation, the enduring power of the establishment, Glasgow's sub East European health outcomes, the scandal of Europe's most expensive heating in its most energy-rich country, and the need to fund Early Years Care big-time and fast.


But I have to ask, why do you think it needs a referendum process to open up these questions? And if solving these problems required more money be thrown at them, do you think that money would be forthcoming under the current constitutional arrangement?

It's all about priorities. And an independent Scotland would at least be able to define its own priorities.
 
 
# brusque 2012-05-15 21:55
When I watched the Debate referred to; my admiration for Leslie's handling of the odious Jim Wallace, who was so furious at being challenged he was actually spitting!, was very high.

I've not changed my mind, but I'm a little concerned about a couple of comments in the article, in particular the references to:-

a) "a climate of name-calling and knee-jerk sectarian aggression - from either side"
and
b) "Will a rhinocerous-like hide be needed to venture onto online forums?"

I think that most, if not all, of the contributors on this site are willing to debate, and if possible, educate. I personally, have learned much on NNS, and continue to do so every day. I realise that Leslie is trying to find a balance, and not "blame" anyone in particular - but speaking as someone who spends a great deal of time explaining Scotland's current situation, and the reason why I want Independence. I speak from the heart on this issue, but I'm very, very aware that I need to be able to use facts to persuade people. I've had a couple of successes, and can honestly say that I get no feedback at all from some people, other than "We are stronger in the UK", no reason, no rationale, just that stiffening of the spine as though I have exposed myself as a "Nationalist nutter" simply for for wanting my own Nation to manage itself.

I am not belligerent, I don't impose on anyone, I answer questions when asked (mostly with the information I've gained from some of the superb contributors here on NNS)and am patient when doing so.

I would love if the SNP were able to hold meetings in every civic centre and village hall in Scotland, to tell people the facts about what we can expect from Independence, but since this is probably an impossible task, it is for those of us who believe that we are worth more than to be Chattels of the UK/Westminster Government, who have been sucking the life out of Scotland since the Union began.

I am not interested in Scotland being a "power on the World's Stage", I'm not interested in marching into someone else's country for profit.

I AM interested in what we (all of us, regardless of political stance) can do to make life better for our children and grandchildren. In getting people into employment, into education, into regaining pride in making things!

I'm hoping it won't be soon, but I really do want to die in an Independent Scotland.

And thanks to Leslie, it is an excellent article except (for me) the pieces I've quoted, which make me think that Leslie has listened to one too many Unionists.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-05-15 22:04
Unfortunately, lots of Scots have "listened to one too many Unionists."

What I take from Lesley's article is that the tone of the debate is just as important as the content.

Let's leave the strident posturing to the Unionist side, and carry on presenting the positive view ourselves.
 
 
# george davie 2012-05-15 22:27
We need to be thinking about how to convince a) those people, who, at the present time, are marginally against Independence b) those who are undecided and c)those who are ambivalent or in two minds.

To do this we must be mindful of two things

1. The content of our message must be academically sound. And if it is ...

2. We should consider the manner in which we deliver it.

Adopting an aggressive, dismissive or paternalistic style will not convince the concerned or undecided.
 
 
# ButeHouse 2012-05-15 22:05
Well done Newsnet for getting one of the UK's big hitters to write an article, the first of many I hope.

I thought this line was most pertinent:

"..the scandal of Europe's most expensive heating in its most energy-rich country..."

These are the facts which class Acts like Lesley and others, in and out of the SNP will bring to the fore.

These are the facts which will win Independence for Scotland.........in fact, I'm half thinking about VOTING YES myself in 2014 :0) .......a date which Cameron has tonight conceded apparently. No more the sooner rather than later mantra, thank God!
 
 
# Angus 2012-05-15 22:18
Couldnt imagine Lesley Riddoch as a BBC puppet, they had to turn to call Kaye, so the BBC is lowering the quality of its journalism in persuit of its political bias and aims, which must start at the very top of the BBC organisation, not in BBC Scotland.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-05-15 22:34
"which must start at the very top of the BBC organisation, not in BBC Scotland."

Why should that be the case?

Many have suggested that the BBC has a tendency to be compliant to the UK Government in power - as they decide the BBC's funding. Other than that, I doubt that the BBC central hierarchy are any more concerned about political opinion in Scotland than they are in Wales or Northern Ireland.

They rely on their "regional" sub divisions to apply that general policy within their own "local" circumstances.
 
 
# Angus 2012-05-16 07:55
I think your answer repeats what I said?
Whatever way it works, it works for the British government against the SNP.
There is no way the BBC would employ anyone with Independence leanings to head BBC Scotland.
 
 
# Exile 2012-05-16 09:20
Was it not some American journalist (term undefined, sorry) or perhaps even Noam Chomsky(?just a vague recollection) who said BBC Scotland headquarters was one of the most oppressed places he'd ever experienced?
 
 
# cirsium 2012-05-15 22:50
Lesley - thank you for an interesting article. Being a founder member of the Isle of Eigg Trust, you will know how beneficial it has been for the people on that island to have gained their independence from exploitative landlords. The same goes for Gigha and the other community buyouts. Do you not think that the same will apply to Scotland?
 
 
# velofello 2012-05-15 22:50
Name calling and knee-jerk sectarian aggression:
Leslie, have you watched recent FM Question Times? And noted:
Lamont referring to Salmond as "Wee Eck".
Referring to herself "as a mother" - Salmond has no children.
And saying that "he likes rich men". Try removing the adjective rich.
Lamont, Leader of "Scottish Labour, a mother, former schoolteacher, graduate of Glasgow University, descends to this level of abuse and you hope for a balanced reasoned debate on Scotland!
Please continue publishing here. And you did attorney whatshisname a kindness on the great debate.
 
 
# Bobelix 2012-05-16 02:35
Lesley's touched on a very important point: there are many in Scotland who would prefer to occupy a mid-point position, call it devo-max, whatever, and would vote for that.
However, I'd say the chances of getting a question on devo-max onto the referendum paper are miniscule to non-existent. Cameron doesn't want it; Alex doesn't really want it, but is at least conceding the view should be taken into account. The problem is that devo-max would be a treaty amendment, not a treaty withdrawal and would therefore require the consent of both parties to the Treaty of Union. Two things make that impossible (one more legalistic than real, I will concede): there is no English Parliament to agree this, and (more relevantly) Cameron does not see it as being in his interests to permit a 2nd question.
We therefore are faced with the position that those disenfranchised by this must be persuaded of the advantages of voting "Yes". This means a much more detailed airing of the possibilities and intentions associated with Independence. While it is valid to claim that the SNP may not even BE the first government of Independent Scotland, it would be pretty naive to imagine that they wouldn't be in with the biggest shout. Many voters therefore regard the elaboration of post-Independence policy as being very much the responsibility of the SNP.
The Opposition sense this and constantly attack what they portray as the vacuum at the centre of SNP policy. To counteract this, and to sway unconvinced voters, we need to set out, at the very least as discussion documents, what we would like to see changed in an Independent political environment. For reasons I don't understand (since I don't regard an attributed special ability to wage war as laudable except in a very few, very particular cases), the continuation of our military regiments* and the organisation of our forces post-Independence exercises many people's minds. It should therefore be discussed fully and in detail. Land reform is long overdue - let's have a policy! A Constitutional Committee/Convention needs to be set up and to report back well before the vote. More grassroots democracy, more local, not central, funding and organisation, more support for what makes life more than just a mechanical exercise - art, literature, music, theatre - all these are required. Proposals for the EU re fishing policy need to be articulated. A broadcasting policy needs to be discussed along with finance. All those shovel-ready projects need to be explained.
The association in people's minds with post-Independence and the SNP is very strong. They see it as the SNP's duty, therefore, to formulate the plans for that society - and to do so now. The unconvinced and undecided will not be further swayed by the arguments presently advanced - they've moved politically as much as they are going to on that basis. We need bold new policies, and radical plans to make the difference.

*despite the origins of Highland regiments, and particularly the Black Watch, as government agents used to suppress their home territory
 
 
# km 2012-05-16 06:20
Watched the debate on Youtube:

www.youtube.com/.../

Actually, Leslie asked my question in that debate, of Lamont and lord Wallace - why does it take a referendum for them to even think about votes for 16 year olds, or to set out what they think the best "devomax" option is, assuming that they don't think the Scotland Bill is perfect.

Oh. And please, please, please can lord Wallace lead the anti-independence campaign.
 
 
# Jim Johnston 2012-05-16 07:29
Hi Lesley,
I hope your article serves its (I suppose) purpose and opens a few minds to the need for a real referendum debate. It's all one sided right now, I suspect because the broad front Unionist approach is a shambles. On the other hand do Unionists really want the truth to be set out. Think of the turmoil it will cause in hugh areas of England outside London and the south east.

Scotland deserves a full open and honest debate, I sincerely hope we get one.
 
 
# Blanco 2012-05-16 07:35
I think what Lesley is saying: we who have made up our minds need to approach people who have not made up their minds in a manner that will persuade them to do so. 

It's not about us. It's about the undecideds (and their children). 

Hard to argue with that. 
 
 
# Exile 2012-05-16 08:21
"...nationalists were unquestionably denied equal treatment on old platforms like BBC TV and radio..."

Lesley, why the use of the past tense?
 
 
# frankyB 2012-05-16 08:51
Lesley, spot on. The only issue is that debates need vehicles to carry them and the mainstream media in Scotland is not fit for purpose. The SNP is continually shut out and misrepresented. Only Labour and unionist arguments are voiced, and every lie propagated as though it was truth.

What can be done about this?

You cannot have a debate when the main party in Scotland is ignored and misrepresented by the media.

I want a debate but not if it is a one-sided Labour roadshow.
 
 
# UpSpake 2012-05-16 08:57
Bobelix. You'll find that most of what you seek is already on the SDA web-site. Anything not there that you seek I would suggest that you contact them via their web-site or even offer to help create policy. Now, there's a new opportunity for you ?.
Independence and the desire to see our country operate by its own hand is not exclusively the domain of the SNP. Where they are weak or ill-prepared they have to be hepled along. Salmond said himself that the SNP were not the harbingers of all wisdom but, by elxluding all other ideas other than their own, developed or not, they do seem to be exclusive to those not necessarily of a left of centre bias.
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-16 09:31
Ruth (don't call me a unionist) Wishart has been to see Angus Robertson at the Ceilidh Place. She tells us en passant that she is a member of no party.

I wondered if I'm the only one who reads what's obviously intended to be a detached, waiting to be persuaded style piece as having an undercurrent of faint resentment for the whole independence malarkey?

scotsman.com/.../...
 
 
# Caadfael 2012-05-16 09:36
Excellent article Lesley, thank you!
Heres a wee grenade, hot off facebook ,,

"Damn the architects of society's ill no-one will deny your logic.

But beware the man who waters your roses, who's life you deem as tragic.

For he is but one of the massing throng who provoked will surround your castle,

With rage in his heart and steel in his hand, a rebel is born of the vassal."
Jock, 2011.
 
 
# Embradon 2012-05-16 10:02
Thank you Lesley. Each appearance here and elsewhere in the media serves to remind of the enormous loss of talent that BBC Scotland has suffered since the mid 90s.

Feisty thought provoking debate replaced by inane drivel, music with musack, arts programmes with The Kitchen Cafe ... ochone ochone..

As some others have commented, recently I had become a bit disillusioned with NNS, having come to expect better than replacing the MSM's "SNP accused...." with "unionists accused..." several times too often.

I have just made a donation for the first time in a wee while and feel inclined to spend the morning debating many of the points in article and contributions but the need to earn a living intervenes - for the moment.
 
 
# 1scot 2012-05-16 10:25
A breath of fresh air.
 
 
# MikeVickers 2012-05-16 12:01
Lesley
‘I want the referendum process to open up hitherto taboo subjects like land reform, centralisation, the enduring power of the establishment, Glasgow's sub East European health outcomes, the scandal of Europe's most expensive heating in its most energy-rich country, and the need to fund Early Years Care big-time and fast. Maybe all the levers of an independent state are needed to resolve these big structural problems – maybe they aren't. One thing's for sure, this is the way I'll make up my mind about independence. And I suspect I won't be alone’
As I understand it, from a recent RSE review on the Independence issues, the amount of money from oil revenues will roughly balance the Barnett Grant. This being so, I can’t see why the SNP, which currently has an overpowering mandate in the Scottish Parliament to do as it likes, can’t pull all the levers now on your key areas of concern rather than wait for the vote: this would convince me one way or the other that an independent Scotland would be any different from a joined up part of the UK.
 
 
# exel 2012-05-16 12:57
“Will there be only one game in town? Will a rhinocerous-like hide be needed to venture onto online forums? Will writers be judged by the presence or absence of their nationalist credentials?”

It certainly does need “a rhinoceros-like hide” to venture here Lesley. The sycophants hiding behind “monikers” does not encourage debate, and the lack of relevant proof of the sometimes frantic claims/accusations does nothing to enhance argument for or against.

Party political advantage/spin all too often gets in the way of sensible discussion/debate.

Is it too much to ask, that the politicians present their case to an open forum of CITIZENS for debate, then butt out until a consensus has been reached?
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-16 13:27
well fair play to you for not "hiding behind a moniker".

Are you the Fife Exels or the ones from the Borders?
 
 
# exel 2012-05-16 13:54
GrassyKnollingt on 2012-05-16 13:27
“well fair play to you for not "hiding behind a moniker". Are you the Fife Exels or the ones from the Borders?”

No I am the EXEL who registered on this site in 2010, who has been unable to edit the registration to, short of buying another computer, to my own name.

You can follow my opinions on the Herald site, under the name Alex Sloan, Fife.
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-16 14:21
apologies Alex wasn't concentrating there, I forgot you're the Federalist / written codified constitution chap who's penned a piece on Newsnet before.
 
 
# Holebender 2012-05-17 16:24
What's stopping you from registering under your own name if you wish to do so? I'm sure it would take no time at all to let others know that you are the poster formerly known as exel if you want to add a little continuity to your posts.
 
 
# exel 2012-05-16 14:30
Bobelix 2012-05-16 02:35
We are certainly singing from the same “song sheet”. There is only one small alteration I would make to your text.

You list under “post independence policies which need elaboration: A Constitutional Committee/Convention needs to be set up and to report back well before the vote.”

I would suggest that this is not a policy that needs elaboration; this is at the heart of the DEBATE. A Written Constitution offered to and accepted by the Scottish people is the reason we are having the DEBATE at all.

I submit that the best reason for seceding from the UNION is that the political system is broken and out of date. The UK has no Written Constitution and the political parties operate an elective dictatorship.
 
 
# Holebender 2012-05-17 16:29
It is a logical fallacy to think that one is caused by the other. The UK with a written constitution would be just as broken as one without. It's not just a matter of having any old piece of paper, it's far more important to have the right constitution.

I know of no example of a country which followed the route of first a written constitution then independence, do you?
 
 
# lumilumi 2012-05-17 18:46
Sorry, haven't read all of the above, but this thing about written constitutions sort of caught me.

I mean, just about all western democracies have a written constitution. The Americans make a great song and dance about theirs, and even in Finland, when the constitution was amended about ten years ago, they sent a booklet to every home, explaining the changes and giving the full text of our constitution.

I think that it is very undemocratic not to have a written constitution. The English establishment might think it great and quirky and all Magna Carta, but it's undemocratic. The Mother of all Parliaments in Westminster is hopelessly undemocratic due to the outdated FPTP system and their perseverance in old customs. Thank god Holyrood is a bit more modern!
 
 
# Holebender 2012-05-17 19:38
I agree with everything you have written here. Please don't make the mistake of thinking I am arguing against having a written constitution, because I fully support having one. My argument with exel is that he is determined that the only problem we have is the lack of a written constitution, that no-one can vote for independence without knowing in advance what every word and punctuation mark of the written constitution will be, and that everything will be perfect as long as we have a written constitution in place. His obsessive narrow focus on what isn't even the real problem is somewhat... irritating.
 
 
# lumilumi 2012-05-17 21:21
Na offece taken, Holebender.

I just find this constitution tiff a bit weird. I mean, the unionists are arguing for status quo and countinuing an unwritten constitution, but demanding a fully developed written constitution from the SNP Scottish Government before the referendum. Talk about double standards!

If they're so hung up on history, maybe we ought to remind them that it was the King of Scots, James VI, who kindly took over the English monarchy as James I, a hundred years before the disastrous union of Parlaments.
 
 
# Robabody 2012-05-16 16:05
Thank you Lesley for the article. The title of your article speaks volumes and as you can see from the responses, there's loads of healthy debates going on in the nationalist communities. Well done for lighting the board up.
 
 
# Davy 2012-05-16 18:06
A fine article Lesley, and the reasons for a great debate are many. But their is a very onesided battle going on which needs to be resolved first.

The BBC and most of the rest of the MSM are not even trying to hide their unionist bias to the SNP, Scotland and their government. And until they can be shown to present an honest, honourable and open face to any Great-Debate, its never going to happen.

Its only through the use of the internet and other such media that their constant lies and half-truths are exposed. And they hate it.

So sorry, until the BBC (which we bloody pay for) and the rest of the MSM start to play fair, I'm keeping my keyboard loaded, my memory clear and Im ready to party heed on.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-05-16 20:34
Just like to mention Lesley's website, her weekly podcasts and the 'Nordic Horizons' website, of which Lesley has been involved. I've just listened to Lesley's last podcast from Monday, where she talks about minimum pricing and interestingly, the political coverage on television in Scotland. It's well worth a listen to.

Lesley's website is here: www.lesleyriddoch.com/

Here you can read the latest blogs, listen to the podcasts etc.

Nordic Horizons is here : www.nordichorizons.org/

Here's some info copied from the website:

Welcome to Nordic Horizons

Interest in the Nordic nations is high and political parties in Scotland and Westminster are starting to borrow policies which have worked well in Scandinavia. So far though there’s been little discussion about the underpinning ‘Nordic Model’ which puts Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark and even debt-rattled Iceland at the top of almost every international league table for wellbeing, equality, health and productivity.

Nordic Horizons is an informal group of Scottish professionals who want to plug that gap and raise the standard of knowledge and debate about specific Nordic policies. We aim to hold six meetings in Edinburgh in 2011 where Nordic specialists can debate with their “opposite numbers” in Scotland. We invite decision-makers, practitioners, MSPs, academics and the public to join us.
 
 
# uilleam_beag 2012-05-16 21:27
Muckle thanks for this column, Ms Leslie.

I trust if you cast your een over the comments here, you'll not feel too disparaged.

As far as I'm concerned, I couldn't care two hoots how you plan to vote in the referendum [not to say I don't care about the outcome!] so long as you are able and willing to set out your arguments in a reasonable and open manner. I would love to hear proper engagement from those opposed to Scotland reasserting its full sovereignty rather than the tired negativity we are used to. Not only is this guff too easy to poke holes in, it causes the majority of ordinary folk (real people, as opposed to us anoraks) to switch off from the debate ... in exactly the same way as Saltire-waving, plaid-clad Braveheart nationalists do.

I salute your attempt at broadening debate and please, please keep at it. We need to engage everyone in Scotland in this debate, from (so-called) top to bottom, left to right of society. This has to be a decision we take as a whole nation, not something dictated by a minority with vested interests -- and I include us committed nationalists in that.

One final thought: independence isn't in itself the medicine. It's the assertion of the right to decide which medicine to use to treat various ailments as and when they may occur.
 
 
# fifestevie 2012-05-17 00:05
Very good open and honest Article .
 
 
# gus1940 2012-05-17 08:34
I see that Grahamski that star of Stage, Screen, Television and the 'new improved scotsman.com' has stuck his head in the noose and joined us.
 
 
# Nautilus 2012-05-17 14:02
Lesley says, “Deprivation for example is not automatically tackled by independence (nor, indeed, by the status quo)”.

Well, we’ve given the status quo a fair crack of the whip over hundreds of years and if anything, relative deprivation has got worse, especially geographically. Let’s try something new.

Deprivation brings us back to the economy. It looks, up to now, as if a home-bred government can do it better. Net emigration has been reduced and Holyrood seems to be getting better results from our economy than the rest of the UK.

Everyone talks as if economic matters are the be all and end all. Most of us are concerned by the simple matter of democracy. Most Scots would wish a government that will do their bidding on election. Not one that does diametrically the opposite. Independence might just give us that.

She also says, “Some folk fervently believe that the constitutional status causes every ailment in Scottish life”. No we don’t, but it certainly causes quite a few of them. The pointless loss of life engendered by futile endless war and the resultant generation of mutual xenophobia is something that irks many Scots, which an independent Scotland may avoid. Similarly, a Scots government may eschew the use of nuclear weapons and remove them from our waters. These ‘ailments’ at least could be removed.

Lesley also wants to open up the debate to hitherto taboo subjects like Land Reform, Centralisation, etc. Try telling that to the Unionists. The only 'debate' they’re capable of is the asinine: ‘Stronger together, weaker apart’.

I am sure that many other parts of England would wish some independence from Westminster. The difference is that we already have a parliament with an independence-minded government and we can do it. They cannot.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-05-17 14:58
Good points Nautilus.

Lesley says, “Deprivation for example is not automatically tackled by independence (nor, indeed, by the status quo)”.


Isn't it astounding sometimes the way journalists will phrase things. This particular phrase used by Lesley just begs to be responded to with

'well, if you're not sure how to cure deprivation, then why not look a lot closer at the causes '
 
 
# snowthistle 2012-05-17 16:22
Do we have to debate with unionists? maybe we should try to debate with the undecideds instead. Probably easier to convince them
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-05-17 19:58
Oh don't worry too much about the undecideds. If they don't say they are against independence, then they'll vote yes on the day. The mere fact they say they are unsure means they like the idea, but are just a little nervous. Put them in the booth and they'll be unable to help themselves. I mean, what harm could it do, just one more yes vote...
 
 
# lumilumi 2012-05-17 18:00
Thanks, Lesley, for this piece. I already read it when it first appeared but didn't have time to comment - and now I apologise to all commentators above, I haven't had time to read all your comments.

What reading this piece most did to me was the sense that nationalism/unionist positions shouldn't be entrenched, and indy-supporters really ought to reach out with a positive message to the people.

Don't be negative like the anti-independists.

This newssite has been good in providing 'the other side of the story' , but lately, if not the articles, maybe the comments have descended into negativity, and it's not attractive. Puts people off from reading the site.

Independence is way beyond party politics. The SNP doesn't own Scottish independence, and they won't be the only party in an independent Scotland. Right now they're a vehicle, after independence the SNP will splinter, and new parties will emerge, left, right and centre. (With Murdo Fraser heading the not-Tory-right-of-centre party.)
 
 
# rob4i 2012-05-17 19:05
excellent article by Lesley Riddoch, at the end of which she mentions the BBC and its Unionist agenda and for all its failings "...they couldn't visualise how a nationalist contribution might fit in.
That was eight years ago. Things may have changed."

No Lesley, they have NOT changed and are never likely to. And as far as a nationalist contribution might fit in within the BBC's Political and Business ideology, it also will never happen.

Just consider recent events when they doctored or edited holyrood footage for Newsnight that same evening to mislead the Scottish electorate with what they wanted them to see, rather than how it actually happened from the original Holyrood TV footage! only one of many deceptions of the past!

This should tell the Scottish electorate exactly what the BBC stands for which is blatant biased reporting and deception purely for their own undemocratic ends!!

They are an absolute disgrace of a news media and are definitely politically anti-Scottish when things are not going their way. Remember, a Leopard NEVER changes its spots!

I hope and believe that the people of our nation sees this obvious "in yer face" corrupt reporting and vote YES at the Referendum and that would put their 'gas in a peep' for good!
 
 
# lumilumi 2012-05-17 20:57
Good rant, rob4i.

BBC Scotland are not servicing news output for the country (or region, as they call it). It's all fitba, fitba, murder, fitba, cute animal story (and fitba is Rangers/Celtic). Not exactly a trustworthy national broadcaster. Rather a joke. But what can we do?

Hit them where it really hurts. Make it known that the BBC isn't as great and impartial as we thought. Spread the word about their despicable practices in Scotland, call their whole global operation into question. Because polite complaints aren't going to achieve anything. But a campaign against their global brand might.
 
 
# velofello 2012-05-17 21:42
Aye, quality always sells. 140 responses so far. and constructive responses too.
A weekly slot would be great Leslie. Commentary on FM Question Time goes abegging, so much material there to have acerbic fun with.
 
 
# gus1940 2012-05-18 09:26
Please can we have a clip permanently available for our entertainmemt of the part of yesterday's FMQ's when Eck had MSP's and the galleries rolling in the aisles when he quoted The Scotsman's apology for lying and their ludicirous boast of impartiality and fair reporting.
 
 
# redcliffe62 2012-05-18 09:58
It is great when someone as competent as Lesley Riddoch argues a story; if only Cochrane and McKenna had half her nuances.
We need good people, with different views, in Scotland.

If STV was clever they would give her a show and she could discuss real politics instead of the guff I watch now.
BBC would not allow debate of that intellectual level, o substance, but it may happen in another lifetme.

sadly I learned more about Cumbernauld and the declaration of Arboath from CBS in America via Craig Ferguson than I have ever learned from the BBC. Fascinating document.
 

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