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By Dave Taylor

A new poll from TNS-BMRB shows a 3% fall in support for both independence (23%) and the status quo (29%) since January, with Devo Max (everything devolved except defence and foreign affairs) gaining 7% to 37% support in a two question referendum.

It looks like neither the Yes or No campaign launches have been very persuasive!

But on closer reading the results cast more shade than light, not everyone responding to the poll is consistent.  1.4% of the sample said "No" to independence in a single question, but "Yes" to independence when two questions were asked. 

1.7% were undecided about independence in a straight choice, but for independence when the extra choice was introduced.  2.1% favoured independence on the single question, but the status quo when a little more complexity was introduced.  A further 1.1% of pro independence supporters on the single question didn't know the answer when asked to consider another option.

That's 6.3% of the sample. The 2.1% may contain some fundamentalists who would have liked devolution never to have happened, so that they could leap straight from oppression to freedom.  But it seems likely that 6% of the sample may find it too difficult to decide between turning left or tight at the top of the road when going to the polling station, and will be found standing on the kerb long after the polls have closed.

Then there's a further 8% who are "Don't Knows" whatever the question.  It is to the credit of professional pollsters that they translate the actual response of "I don't give a toss either way" into a more acceptable wording.

This leaves 87% who have an opinion and might vote - unless personal circumstances get in the way.  That would still be pretty high, given that only 60.4% of the electorate voted in the 1997 referendum.

Chris Eynon from TNS noted that when the additional question is included "the percentage undecided declines significantly to virtually half the level recorded on the straightforward question of independence or not.  Around 1 in 4 of those currently supporting independence and almost 40% of those undecided on the 'yes/no' scenario would switch to the 'devo-max'  option of increased powers within the United Kingdom if this were offered.  In the event that it is not offered, whether this latter group decide to vote for or against will have a considerable bearing on the outcome."

He might have also noted that 44% of those currently against independence would support Devo Max.

If we ignore the confused and the "Don't Cares", a slightly different picture appears when we aggregate the responses to the single and double questions, but Eynon's analysis is correct.

29% support "THE" UK, and if they were asked, many of this group would want Holyrood's powers to be diminished or removed entirely.

76% support (or would go along with)  "A" UK, which only had control over defence and foreign affairs, while all other areas of governance were under Scottish control.

70% want an independent Scotland, or at least a massive transfer of power to Scotland.

25% support an independent Scotland, which would also handle defence and foreign affairs.

Arithmeticians will have noted that the total of 200% is attained because most UK and Scottish nationalists are included twice - if they would opt for Devo Max, given such an option.

Indeed, it seems clear that around three-quarters of Scots would happily accept the status of Crown Dependencies like the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands.  That would be somewhat ironic, given the recent calls for Jersey to "be ready to become independent" – but also very hopeful of those of an independentista mind.

"Gradualist? Fundamentalist? Idealist? Pragmatist? Today? Tomorrow?" Those questions were usefully examined by the inestimable Lallands Peat Worrier back in 2010. His article is well worth revisiting , as is his one of his most recent cogitations.

All we can be certain of, however, is that there's still all to play for.

Comments  

 
# scottish_skier 2012-07-10 10:02
Good analysis Dave. This is a good poll - no getting away from that 70% odd that want all but complete independence. As for the Y/N, with Devo Max taking centre stage and just about everyone having heard of it, getting a good idea of what would happen in a straight Y/N is nearly impossible now. People are expecting to be asked about Devo Max. Also, the poll did ask if you would vote for independence tomorrow, which is a lot to ask of the nervous.

If I had the cash, I'd commission a poll asking this:

In an ideal world, would you like Scotland to be an independent country?

I suspect you'd get 70% Y and that's the key...
 
 
# Rafiki 2012-07-10 16:42
The case for devo whatever has to be made by the Unionists; it should not be up to the Yes Campaign to play devil's advocate.

Why not exclude the Status Quo?
 
 
# Mei 2012-07-10 18:16
All we need are two boxes on the ballot :-

Box 1. Would you like Scotland to be an independent country with all the powers that implies?

Box 2. Would you prefer the status quo with no additional powers?

Please tick a box.
 
 
# UpSpake 2012-07-10 18:20
With the SNP advocating that the UK/Westminster control money supply, set interest rates and they maintain the pound as our currency then that is just another form of Devo !.
Not independence as I know it SNP not independence at all !.
 
 
# snowthistle 2012-07-10 18:33
If we were free to make that choice (and we would be able to change our policy when it suited us)then we would be independent.
We would not be using the pound because we have too but because it makes economic sense to do so. If that situation changes then, as an independent country, we can react.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-07-10 18:36
Yes, that's the idea. Doesn't sound scary does it - just like Devo max really but with knobs on (sovereignty). So when Devo max is not forthcoming as a second option....

I thought this was obvious.

Out of interest, are you sure the SNP will win a majority in the first SGE post independence? I'd have thought that unlikely. I'm not 100% positive I'll vote for them; need to see manifestos for all the parties come the time.
 
 
# snowthistle 2012-07-10 18:57
Not sure I would vote for them either, like you I want to know what the other parties offer. One thing's for sure, they won't be in power for ever after
As for currency, I really do believe that it makes perfect economic sense to keep the pound in the early stages of an indy Scotland.
 
 
# uilleam_beag 2012-07-10 21:09
I'd have said it was a given as the unionist parties would all be stuck in a tailspin, but perhaps the closest comparable in UK voting terms is the first general election after WWII. Churchill didn't fare so well, did he?
 
 
# Hugo 2012-07-10 20:29
I think you are incorrect saying that the SNP advocates that the UK/Westminster control money supply, etc. As I understand it the SNP are advocating a Scottish pound which initially will be tied to the Westminster pound, 1 for 1. However, this exchange rate parity will not last for ever. The government of an independent Scotland will have the power to change the exchange rate. This is the difference between a devolved Scotland and an independent Scotland.
 
 
# Fungus 2012-07-10 20:03
There needs to be a stop to this wittering about Devo Max. If it is included would it be 'I'll tell what powers we'll return to you after you vote' or 'there you go have it all until we get round to taking it back bit by bit'
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-07-10 20:30
This is quite interesting. The better together parties have brought together a number of experts to decide the question for the referendum on Scottish independence, which it seems they now strongly advocate.

bbc.co.uk/.../...

First they adopt the saltire as their campaign flag, then they propose the question. I can't help but feel they're warming to the idea of Scottish independence. Kind of looks that way; to the casual observer anyway.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-07-10 22:21
To be accurate, the report says that they are going to "compose a single question".

Fair enough. I've seen lots of people compose single and double questions.

But to have the Electoral Commission test a particular proposal for a question, the proposer has to be able to get a majority of the Scottish Parliament to agree to that proposal.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-07-10 22:40
Incidentally, did you see this absolutely shocking example of "push polling" being endorsed by a formerly reputable polling company?

comres.co.uk/.../...

It follows on from the scandal of Populus taking Tesco cash for this poll populus.co.uk/.../...

ICM's Scottish June poll had to be seriously questioned due to its agreement to have Reform Scotland's political chicanery included.

As someone who has argued that professional polling companies generally ask fair questions, I'm disappointed to see a number of polling companies adopting banking, rather than polling, ethics.

The poll that is the subject of this article at least has the benefit of being questions determined by pollsters, not partisan clients.

As far as I am aware, the Herald doesn't pay for the TNS polls. TNS simply give their political polls to the Herald as a publicity device.
 
 
# Aplinal 2012-07-11 19:17
The Electoral Commission has already stated that they will NOT consider another question, and that it is for the Scottish government to propose.

Another stupid move by the pro-dependents to muddy the waters. Don't they have anyone in their campaign that thinks before acting?
 
 
# UpSpake 2012-07-11 08:47
Keeping a pound, English or Scottish is muddying the waters somewhat. Having a quite seperate Scots currency both in name and presentation properly seperates the two even in in the run up to the independence vote and beyond, they are at parity, until the inevitable happens and the Scots currency soars ahead.
You can choose the currency of your choice from ATM's and that lets the people decide.
This is the policy of the SDA and seems fair enough to me.
 
 
# McDuff 2012-07-11 09:03
Popularity for devo max is bad for independence as the electorate feel comfortable and safe with it believing that it is a kind of independence which of course it is not.
The SNP is about complete seperation and they should remember that.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-07-11 09:46
Remember that most - if not all - of those that support devo max are actually supporters/like the idea of independence. They're just nervous. They are the ones that say 'Independence is a nice idea but...' They do actually mean this.

Support for the status quo is only ~30%. The Jubilee, Olympics etc and the outpouring of british nationalism that is accompanying these is irrelevant. As is the no campaign - it has already lost; it lost in 2007. The electorate in Scotland already supports independence in majority; they just need to feel that it is safe proposition, primarily with respect to economics.

If the tendency is at the moment for people to favour devo max over indepedence (only a couple of polls mind), then it is sweet FA to do with the UK/no campaign/MSM etc, but a reaction to the current European/global economic crisis. It was the same in 2008-9 during the banking crisis. People are scared right now, and when people are scared, they are less willing to take a big leap. In time, this fear will dissipate as the sky singularly fails to fall in.
 
 
# Ped 2012-07-11 15:10
I have never been polled. If I had been asked to vote on the one question of Independance three months or so ago, my very firm vote would have been "N0". However, if asked the same today my vote would be a tentative "YES" as my views have been shifted somewhat, but it should also be considered that the actual vote is still some time away and my opinon could very well swing right back again as I am not 100% convinced by the arguments I have seen tus far. (I would say that the Unionist side of debate is at best dissapointing).

This whole second question thing puzzels me as it looks to be more of a leap in the dark than a straight out question and I tend to think it can only confuse the issue, though how a second question would sway my vote at the time, I have no idea.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-07-11 18:29
Yes, the poll question did ask if you would vote for independence tomorrow.

I imagine the result would be quite different if what you would vote in 2014 was asked. I suspect the don't knows would be much higher.

Polls are fickle things - they can tell you a lot about the general feelings of the electorate, but rarely give you a straight answer to anything.
 
 
# ramstam 2012-07-11 23:05
Ca canny wi this poll. Unlike other recent polls the question proposed by the Scottish Govt. was not the one asked, though it maybe was the one used by the same polling company in previous polls they have done. To have 30% two years out from the referendum is not a bad position to be in, though I feel the YES campaign should begin to expose the claim that we are in an "equal union" with England. In the union parliament Scotland has less than 10% representation and England with 500 MP's is clearly political "Bossman". What England wants will inevitably happen. Any benefits to Scots are mainly on a personal level. Darling,Rifkind ,Blair,Brown,Re id,Forsyth,Camp bell,Douglas-Home,Cook,Smith and the rest would rather strutt their stuff in a "big country" than fight for a better Scotland. The 5 Million of us who live here have more than a passing interest in welfare of Scotland and we all cant get a top job in London. I'm really surprised nobody in the YES camp has trumpeted that Alasdair Darling campaigned against a Scottish Assembly in 1979! Wasnt he a heid-bummer in the Labour Says No camp, along with Brian Wilson & Co?? Mibbe the auld memory isnae working right. Could somebody check this out. Could be useful ammo to counteract claims of jam tommorrow if Scots vote NO!?
 
 
# lumilumi 2012-07-11 23:33
The thing about devo-max (or devo-plus or devo-whatever) is that it has never been defined properly. And any devo would be in the gift of Westminster. After NO in the 2014 referendum, they could just hold off the jam - like they did before.

I've seen devo-max touted as everything but foreign policy and defence. Is that to allay fears? Might I point out that the scariest thing about remaining in the UK is that 'Britain' will tie helpless Scotland down to Washington-led aggressive UK foreign policy, with illegal wars overseas and WMD right next door to the biggest concentration of Scottish population. Another union divident, or the short straw.

Economy is important, of course it is, but independence is NOT about short-term money. It's about making a better future for your kids or grandkids, and the way the UK is going now, Scotland and every future generation of Scots is better out of it.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-07-12 02:03
Of course, all independence supporters agree with you BUT we haven't yet persuaded the majority of Scots of that case.

Hopefully, we will. However, if we can't then the options are

1. to have a vague hope that, at some time in the future, the sovereign UK Parliament will decide to cede some more powers

2. to have the Scots, by a huge majority, demanding all powers short of defence & foreign affairs to be ceded to Holyrood. If the UK then says No, the next step to independence is small. If they do cede those powers then they can theoretically remove them, but politically that would be impossible without Scottish secession.

Its the old argument of gradualism v fundamentalism. Thus far gradualism has been pretty successful. Without it we would still be in the position of arguing for at least the powers that Scotland gained 13 years ago!
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-07-19 15:30
Some statistics for fun...

Share of total facebook likes for YesScotland and BetterTogether:

Yes Scotland = 77%
Better together = 23%

No chance of better together catching up based on current trends.

Yougov UK Government statisfaction in Scotland (running average):

Dissatisfied = 71%
Satisfied = 18%

Been like that for ages now.

Ties in with that 70% for Devo Max...
 

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