Thursday, 17 November 2011 06:56
114 Comments
By G.A.Ponsonby 
A Labour MSP has caused controversy after demanding the Scottish Parliament join a national strike to be held on 30th of November.
Paul Martin said that all MSPs should “join the labour movement” and refuse to attend parliamentary business that day. If they did then they would miss a scheduled motion condemning the UK government’s plans.
MSPs from other parties sat bemused and perplexed as Mr Martin, the MSP for Springburn, said: “I would ask on behalf of the Scottish Labour party all trade Unionists in this parliament to join the labour movement in this day of action indeed show your solidarity, stand up for the working people of Scotland by opposing the business motion in the name of the government.”
A national day of action is planned after the UK coalition announced changes to pension contributions. Mr Martin claimed that the SNP were ‘bystanders’ on the Tory/Lib Dem coalition plans and were responsible for implementing some of the changes.
However John Swinney blasted the Labour MSP and explained that the SNP had urged a delay. The Finance Secretary explained that he faced a significant cut in the Scottish budget if the Scottish government refused the coalition demands.
The SNP government had asked for a deferral in implementing the changes until the economic conditions improved. However the changes were forced through after Lib Dem Treasury Chief Danny Alexander warned that any refusal would see the Scottish budget cut.
Bruce Crawford, the SNP minister for parliamentary business, said that MSPs should attend Holyrood on the 30th to debate a Scottish government motion condemning the pension plans.
Mr Crawford said that MSPs had a duty to carry out their duties and added:
“We are afforded the privilege of being elected to this parliament to represent the people of Scotland; that is exactly what we should be doing.
“It is our responsibility, nay, it is our duty to be in parliament on the 30th of November debating issues of such significant importance to the people of Scotland.”
The SNP MSP described the coalition changes as a “naked cash grab” and added:
"This government fully respects the rights of employees who might choose to withdraw their labour, with regards to the day of action planned for 30 November.
"Let me also make it clear the Scottish government is committed to a public sector pension which is affordable, sustainable and fair."
Mr Martin’s demand for a parliamentary strike was defeated by 83 votes to 36, with one abstention. However Labour’s three leadership candidates have announced that they will not turn up that day.
Three million public sector workers are expected to take part in the strike.
Comments
#
2011-11-17 08:00
I hope these three idiots have a days pay deducted from their salaries and pensions like all other workers now we know they are taking strike action. They should be made to pay if they want this kind of publicity.
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2011-11-17 08:40
Perhaps Paul could ask his Dad to dip his hand in his pocket and contribute some funds for the strike pot?
Or maybe Martin senior is doing something special that day, perhaps spending his hard earned expenses that he's been saving for this moment. It's probably Christmas shopping in Harrods which requires Martin minor to turn up to choose his pressie.
Or maybe Martin senior is doing something special that day, perhaps spending his hard earned expenses that he's been saving for this moment. It's probably Christmas shopping in Harrods which requires Martin minor to turn up to choose his pressie.
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2011-11-17 18:31
Quoting Wave Machine:
Aye, and no doubt using a taxi at public expense, just like the ex-Speaker's wife did while he was one of the main expenses troughers in Westminster - while trying to block all inquiries into this scandal!
Perhaps Paul could ask his Dad to dip his hand in his pocket and contribute some funds for the strike pot?
Or maybe Martin senior is doing something special that day, perhaps spending his hard earned expenses that he's been saving for this moment. It's probably Christmas shopping in Harrods which requires Martin minor to turn up to choose his pressie.
Aye, and no doubt using a taxi at public expense, just like the ex-Speaker's wife did while he was one of the main expenses troughers in Westminster - while trying to block all inquiries into this scandal!
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2011-11-17 08:40
Hi there,
The significance in the article is the demonstration of the bully-boy tactics used by Westminster in forcing the Scottish government to take action against its will by their manipulation of the block grant. ie withholding money. Also known as blackmail.
The SLAB MSP's, despite the rhetoric, of course think this a great idea as this is exactly what Gordon Brown did previously.
A plague on all their houses. Surely the Scottish people will see this latest SLAB move for exactly what it is - playing politics.
Regards,
The significance in the article is the demonstration of the bully-boy tactics used by Westminster in forcing the Scottish government to take action against its will by their manipulation of the block grant. ie withholding money. Also known as blackmail.
The SLAB MSP's, despite the rhetoric, of course think this a great idea as this is exactly what Gordon Brown did previously.
A plague on all their houses. Surely the Scottish people will see this latest SLAB move for exactly what it is - playing politics.
Regards,
#
2011-11-17 13:33
Quoting RaboRuglen:
Absolutely agree. Hopefully it demonstrates to what's left of the residual Libdem support and to others, exactly why the coalition is now so opposed to an FFA option.
Having had time to think about it, they now realise that a Scottish Government with FFA would be able to pursue the priorities and policies they were elected to deliver and to Hell with the fact it might show up Westminster.
Hi there,
The significance in the article is the demonstration of the bully-boy tactics used by Westminster in forcing the Scottish government to take action against its will by their manipulation of the block grant. ie withholding money. Also known as blackmail.
The SLAB MSP's, despite the rhetoric, of course think this a great idea as this is exactly what Gordon Brown did previously.
A plague on all their houses. Surely the Scottish people will see this latest SLAB move for exactly what it is - playing politics.
Regards,
Absolutely agree. Hopefully it demonstrates to what's left of the residual Libdem support and to others, exactly why the coalition is now so opposed to an FFA option.
Having had time to think about it, they now realise that a Scottish Government with FFA would be able to pursue the priorities and policies they were elected to deliver and to Hell with the fact it might show up Westminster.
#
2011-11-17 16:03
Aye Rab, but surely the significance of this article is how it shows just how idiotic some members of the Labour party actually are.
Like most of the unions, when faced with a problem they have one answer - strike - no matter what the root cause of the problem actually is. People who are totally incapable of any actual useful thinking before acting should be put down at birth!
Like most of the unions, when faced with a problem they have one answer - strike - no matter what the root cause of the problem actually is. People who are totally incapable of any actual useful thinking before acting should be put down at birth!
#
2011-11-17 08:41
I thought Secondary action was illegal?
Or does Paul Martin consider himself a Westminster Employee?
Has he balloted himself?
Or does Paul Martin consider himself a Westminster Employee?
Has he balloted himself?
#
2011-11-17 09:15
For all the contribution the Labour group make to our democracy, they might as well go on stirke - permanantly !.
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2011-11-17 09:18
just wondering if the Labour MSP's went on strike on a Thursday would FM Questions be postponed or/and would the BBC broadcast a programm without their Labour chums
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2011-11-17 09:46
A Labour politician urging other politicians to 'stand up for the workers'?
Well as they are virtually all on the broo the noo, why doesn't he join them?
They should have been doing this years ago - where were they then?
Typical Labour opportunist chameleon though - too little too late.
Well as they are virtually all on the broo the noo, why doesn't he join them?
They should have been doing this years ago - where were they then?
Typical Labour opportunist chameleon though - too little too late.
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2011-11-17 12:14
I think quite a lot of Labour MSPs boycotted Parliament last time there was a public sector strike, and business was postponed as a result.
Interesting point, have they ever boycotted Westminster?
Interesting point, have they ever boycotted Westminster?
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2011-11-17 12:19
Surely, if the Tories don't boycott, the combined numbers of them and Us should be well above whatever Quorum is required.
I say let them strike. Shove as much business as possible though on the Nod. Then let them explain to their London Paymasters why there was no "opposition" voices heard.
I say let them strike. Shove as much business as possible though on the Nod. Then let them explain to their London Paymasters why there was no "opposition" voices heard.
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2011-11-17 16:49
I doubt it, this idea of a "pretendy parliament" is exactly what they want to spread about. Lack of respect for their own institituons - or rather the ones they don't control.
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2011-11-17 10:00
Very silly indeed.Laabour MSPs should be in parliament on the 30th trying to stop the London cuts.Are Trade Union Bosses going to go on strike? If so,who will give the TV interviews.I think Scots folk will see this for what it is.London laap dogs grandstanding,w hile the SNP work hard for the Scotlands best interests.
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2011-11-17 10:01
You know, after a 4 year pay freeze I'm not particularly happy with the way the country is either. But I'm not seeing how bringing everything to a grinding halt in the land and costing the tax payer and businesses money, services and lost time is going to help this. Cap that by trying to shut down business in the only working parliament in the country and you may as well put up a billboard to investors to shop elsewhere. Does anyone remember the 70s?
Realistically what is expected from this strike? Full reinstatement of all pensions and wages? As far as I am aware the cupboard is bare. UK PLC is up to its bum in hock and what money is circulating within each union partner's budgets is utilised by robbing Peter to pay Paul. So where is the money coming from to keep all the broken promises?
Yes I do realise that promises and contracts have been broken! Indeed savaged, kicked in the cans and dragged through the dirt.
But that won't reverse time and make it so that a credit crunch, banking collapse and world financial recession didn't happen. I suppose what it will do is give everyone a nice day out where they can march up to someone and say quite clearly, WE'RE NO HAPPY AN YOU NEED TO FIX THIS! Will it be fixed after that and by how long? 5 mins? 5 months? 5 years? 50 years?
We are lucky in Scotland, we do have an out here. By becoming independent and cutting our cloth accordingly we can repair a lot of the damage done by Westminster in the past 50 years and not only repair damage but actually get ahead. Now that is worth something and that is why it should be business as usual in Holyrood.
Realistically what is expected from this strike? Full reinstatement of all pensions and wages? As far as I am aware the cupboard is bare. UK PLC is up to its bum in hock and what money is circulating within each union partner's budgets is utilised by robbing Peter to pay Paul. So where is the money coming from to keep all the broken promises?
Yes I do realise that promises and contracts have been broken! Indeed savaged, kicked in the cans and dragged through the dirt.
But that won't reverse time and make it so that a credit crunch, banking collapse and world financial recession didn't happen. I suppose what it will do is give everyone a nice day out where they can march up to someone and say quite clearly, WE'RE NO HAPPY AN YOU NEED TO FIX THIS! Will it be fixed after that and by how long? 5 mins? 5 months? 5 years? 50 years?
We are lucky in Scotland, we do have an out here. By becoming independent and cutting our cloth accordingly we can repair a lot of the damage done by Westminster in the past 50 years and not only repair damage but actually get ahead. Now that is worth something and that is why it should be business as usual in Holyrood.
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2011-11-17 10:41
I agree with a lot your saying Macart, but for me it's not that the 'cupboard is bare' - it's that any chance of re-stocking it is not being taken.
Get the troops home from Afghanistan - we can't afford it.
Cut the aid pledges to Pakistan- their government can't be bothered to look after their own people, it's not up to us to pay.
Stop the £814m pledged by Cameron over the next three years for vaccines in Africa. Good cause though it is, this money just ends up in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies - exactly where Cameron wants it.
Charity begins at home, and Cameron has failed in his duty. His duty is to look after the lives and welfare of British citizens on these isles and he has failed in that fundamental duty. He need's to go.
If you can strike, you should strike.
Get the troops home from Afghanistan - we can't afford it.
Cut the aid pledges to Pakistan- their government can't be bothered to look after their own people, it's not up to us to pay.
Stop the £814m pledged by Cameron over the next three years for vaccines in Africa. Good cause though it is, this money just ends up in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies - exactly where Cameron wants it.
Charity begins at home, and Cameron has failed in his duty. His duty is to look after the lives and welfare of British citizens on these isles and he has failed in that fundamental duty. He need's to go.
If you can strike, you should strike.
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2011-11-17 11:12
Right back at you tartanf. I agree with a good deal of what you say. But even if all of what you post happened tomorrow. Its still going to take a long time to refill that cupboard. Remember we're talking in trillions these days instead of billions. The strikers still won't get back what they've lost and the same team will still be in charge.
You're right, Cameron has not just failed in his duty he is taking advantage of this situation to push for tory led reforms. But the door was left wide open for him by 13 years of New, Nu, Noo Labour government. If most of the country thought for a second that they were deliberately being sold out and that the whole economic crisis was a kid on, then I could see a point in striking, in fact there would be mass riots on the scale of the 80s. There would also be something to achieve. But as of right now I can only see protest for protests sake.
You're right, Cameron has not just failed in his duty he is taking advantage of this situation to push for tory led reforms. But the door was left wide open for him by 13 years of New, Nu, Noo Labour government. If most of the country thought for a second that they were deliberately being sold out and that the whole economic crisis was a kid on, then I could see a point in striking, in fact there would be mass riots on the scale of the 80s. There would also be something to achieve. But as of right now I can only see protest for protests sake.
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2011-11-17 11:26
Yep, agree once more with everything you say, except that while protesting for protests sake might very well be the case in many circles, I'm beginning to get a whiff of a violent undercurrent. I think theres going to be some real trouble on the streets soon, certainly this winter and its going to cause a major backlash in Parliament.
Cameron has held off/postponed his motion in Parliament on lobbying, 'the next big scandal' as he puts it precisely because of this.
Cameron has held off/postponed his motion in Parliament on lobbying, 'the next big scandal' as he puts it precisely because of this.
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2011-11-17 11:39
Violence at any time is a double edged sword. Especially when committed under the banner of fighting for social democracy. I come from a mining area originally. I watched families and communities torn apart when Maggie broke the back of the unions. I hope they don't go down that route.
Like I said in my original post - We have an out! We can choose a different way. We have a real chance at a government that is answerable to the people, that will offer a proper social charter that works.
Remember tartanf NAE LIMITS!
Like I said in my original post - We have an out! We can choose a different way. We have a real chance at a government that is answerable to the people, that will offer a proper social charter that works.
Remember tartanf NAE LIMITS!
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2011-11-17 11:52
Yes of course, we have an option up here north of the border - in general I'm referring to south of the border in my comments. The riots over the summer I think will be a pre-cursor to something more widespread.
And I an remembering NAE LIMITS ! - but it's good to get a reminder. Cheers.
And I an remembering NAE LIMITS ! - but it's good to get a reminder. Cheers.
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2011-11-17 11:37
Cut vaccines to Africa and millions of children will die, and millions of migrants will want to move to somewhere safer. Do you really want that? Are you really so mean spirited that you think children should die to put a few more pence in your pocket?
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2011-11-17 12:03
No Holebender, I wouldn't withold medical aid to any in need. Its what makes us human, the ability empathise with another's suffering and try and do something about it. But I would like to see our boys and girls back from Afghanistan and some aid given at home to some of the more impoverished areas of our cities.
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2011-11-17 12:09
Yep, it's pretty drastic and of course I don't want to see children die. However, what many people don't appreciate is the full picture. They see the kids getting there vaccinations and thats the end of the story. The general public don't think about where that medicine comes from and where the money ends up, and the vast majority of those funds will end up in the bank accounts of the likes of Pfizer, a number of the individuals on that board donate to whichever party is in power at that time.
I'd like to see more effective pressure on these companies to offer vaccines for a vastly reduced fee, if not free of charge. They could then be given a tax break, not that they don't receive such kickbacks already.
Or even better, why not try and encourage these pharmaceutical companies on the virtues of altruism and humanity, values they seem to have forgotten decades ago.
As long as they get their money thats all that keeps them and the shareholders happy.
I'd like to see more effective pressure on these companies to offer vaccines for a vastly reduced fee, if not free of charge. They could then be given a tax break, not that they don't receive such kickbacks already.
Or even better, why not try and encourage these pharmaceutical companies on the virtues of altruism and humanity, values they seem to have forgotten decades ago.
As long as they get their money thats all that keeps them and the shareholders happy.
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2011-11-17 21:02
tartanfever
The Scots are considered remarkable in having an "inclusive" form of independence. One of the dangers during the drive for independence is an inward narrow exclusive focus and the Labour party have tried to suggest that this was taking place - and they will continue to do so.
You cannot have an arguement on social responsibility and caring and then turn a blind eye to imbalance elsewhere.
I agree that nations spending billions on nuclear weapons and missiles such as India and Pakistan should be "advised" to re-direct their funds as we will have a preference to give to those who do not have the option of fund allocation.
I share your frustration with the pharmaceutical industry but once again that is not what should drive a foreign policy. What you do is campaign as a nation to highlight the abuse.
We cannot cure the worlds ills but I would rather spend the money on aid than cruise missiles / Trident / Aircraft carriers / House of Lords / Royal Family / Lottery funds skimmed for Olympics..............and so on.
I see no point in gaining Independence and losing your soul!
The Scots are considered remarkable in having an "inclusive" form of independence. One of the dangers during the drive for independence is an inward narrow exclusive focus and the Labour party have tried to suggest that this was taking place - and they will continue to do so.
You cannot have an arguement on social responsibility and caring and then turn a blind eye to imbalance elsewhere.
I agree that nations spending billions on nuclear weapons and missiles such as India and Pakistan should be "advised" to re-direct their funds as we will have a preference to give to those who do not have the option of fund allocation.
I share your frustration with the pharmaceutical industry but once again that is not what should drive a foreign policy. What you do is campaign as a nation to highlight the abuse.
We cannot cure the worlds ills but I would rather spend the money on aid than cruise missiles / Trident / Aircraft carriers / House of Lords / Royal Family / Lottery funds skimmed for Olympics..............and so on.
I see no point in gaining Independence and losing your soul!
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2011-11-17 21:23
Exactly so clootie! We're trying to be a better place to live. If we didn't show the qualities you have so eloquently outlined we'd wind up no better than Westminster.
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2011-11-17 10:01
The Martins and the Kinnocks of this land are the very worst kind of hypocrites I can imagine. This one is a clone of his father, sitting comfortably in a constituency whilst his flock endure some of the worst social deprivations in the EU.
On another topic, I see the BBC Points of View forum has now closed down the thread on BBC Scotlands censorship and political bias and propaganda. How utterly utterly predictable they now are. The Ukanian state broadcaster.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Please SNP set up a You Tube channel with a weekly digest to expose this disgraceful situation and to rebut the lies of Osborne, Cameron, Mundell, and the rather peculiar Moore. I wonder if Gray will come to Holyrood today waving a piece of paper?
On another topic, I see the BBC Points of View forum has now closed down the thread on BBC Scotlands censorship and political bias and propaganda. How utterly utterly predictable they now are. The Ukanian state broadcaster.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Please SNP set up a You Tube channel with a weekly digest to expose this disgraceful situation and to rebut the lies of Osborne, Cameron, Mundell, and the rather peculiar Moore. I wonder if Gray will come to Holyrood today waving a piece of paper?
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2011-11-17 10:01
Surely the anti-Scottish Labour members should be joining their colleagues on strike? Would anyone notice their absence?
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2011-11-17 10:17
Good of the Labour party leadership candidates and others to demonstrate exactly why they should never be trusted to run the economy ever again.
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2011-11-17 10:35
These idiots should remember that it is the Thatcherite Labour party who are responsible for most of the current mess we are in.They are all acting as if it is business as usual and that once they have conned people into believing that it is all the Tories fault (which indirectly it partially is) they will be voted back into power.
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2011-11-17 10:36
What concerns is the escalating idea that the SNP-led (or dominated as they say) Scottish parliament should be put in quarantine, and opposition which should be channelled through this institution is coming from land, sea, air, UK ministers, UK committees, business buddies, corrupt media, public bodies, and so on.
De-legitimising the Scottish parliament or attempts to do so means sidelining all the people who voted for the current arrangemenst - ah but now we're even told that the voting system is unsuitable.
Where will this end? It is actually quite worrying.
De-legitimising the Scottish parliament or attempts to do so means sidelining all the people who voted for the current arrangemenst - ah but now we're even told that the voting system is unsuitable.
Where will this end? It is actually quite worrying.
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2011-11-17 10:38
Did a quick look in the Scotsman on this story no mention of Martin wonder why.???
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2011-11-17 10:42
It may be the condems that are implementing all these pension changes and indeed added some of their own changes to what was already set in stone by GB Brown and New Labour. Ok so Paul Martin will now be old Labour ( or something ) when will he and all his cowardly lot, stand up and fight for Scotland!
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2011-11-17 10:47
Are his chummies Eddie Moribund and Co. doon sooth joining the strike or is it just the numpties in the NuLabour north contingency?
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2011-11-17 10:51
John Swinney has told Danny Alexander that the Scottish Government cannot support the timetable of changes to pensions Westminster are trying to force through. Had we powers over tax and pensions we could stop these changes being imposed. Will the Labour support the transfer of these powers? No.
Labour - hot air and hypocrisy. Big noise on the picket line when in opposition; shaft the workers when in power.
Labour - hot air and hypocrisy. Big noise on the picket line when in opposition; shaft the workers when in power.
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2011-11-17 11:13
OT Breaking News
Virgin Money to buy Northern Rock
independent.co.uk/.../...
“ Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Money is to buy nationalised lender Northern Rock in a £747 million deal, the Treasury announced today. “
The takeover of the Newcastle-based bank, which was taken into public ownership in February 2008, is expected to be completed by the end of this year.
The Government will receive an initial £747 million with the potential to secure £1 billion in total - less than the estimated £1.4 billion it has injected into the bank during its period of public ownership.
Virgin Money to buy Northern Rock
independent.co.uk/.../...
“ Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Money is to buy nationalised lender Northern Rock in a £747 million deal, the Treasury announced today. “
The takeover of the Newcastle-based bank, which was taken into public ownership in February 2008, is expected to be completed by the end of this year.
The Government will receive an initial £747 million with the potential to secure £1 billion in total - less than the estimated £1.4 billion it has injected into the bank during its period of public ownership.
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2011-11-17 11:27
It's easy for the sons of stinking rich lords to go on strike. They've no need to worry about being penalised financially.
Lord Martin's son should show solidarity with the workers by only accepting and living off of the same wages they do.
Lord Martin's son should show solidarity with the workers by only accepting and living off of the same wages they do.
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2011-11-17 11:30
O/T
On the faint chance that anyone here is interested - the 'BBC' are just reporting that Ms J Lamont is leading with more official backing than her co-challengers. If she does win - what sort of political sandwich will Mr Salmond find himself in at FMQ's - remembering that the LibDems only represent a limp garnish.
On the faint chance that anyone here is interested - the 'BBC' are just reporting that Ms J Lamont is leading with more official backing than her co-challengers. If she does win - what sort of political sandwich will Mr Salmond find himself in at FMQ's - remembering that the LibDems only represent a limp garnish.
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2011-11-17 11:42
I'm afraid that if we Had Johann, Ruth and Willie, we would be getting FMQs reported as "Cruelty to Dumb Animals".
Hang on, FMQs today ? I wonder if the BBC Political Editor for Northern Britain will be writing his usual hagiography.
Hang on, FMQs today ? I wonder if the BBC Political Editor for Northern Britain will be writing his usual hagiography.
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2011-11-17 12:16
Marga - I was about to post something along the lines of what Salmond would be stuck between, the word bull was in both sides, but thought the better of posting. You will just have to imagine ;)
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2011-11-17 12:07
One has to wonder why Paul Martin and the three leadership candidates are so anxious to avoid the debate and vote on the Scottish government motion condemning the pension plans. Could it be because their British nationalist prejudice won't allow them to vote with the SNP? While fear of the electorate won't allow them to vote against the motion?
Referendum Debate: www.referendumdebate.com
Referendum Debate: www.referendumdebate.com
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2011-11-17 12:19
Have we not been here before with Labour MSP joining some strike or other in 2010if I remember correctly.
I seem to remember Ian Gray being photographed with them outside the Scottish Parliament.
I seem to remember Ian Gray being photographed with them outside the Scottish Parliament.
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2011-11-17 14:07
Yes, I think you're right, Legerwood.
I vaguely recall something of an incident where Gray was photographed outside the parliament showing solidarity with the protesters - then voted against an SNP motion backing said protesters.
I vaguely recall something of an incident where Gray was photographed outside the parliament showing solidarity with the protesters - then voted against an SNP motion backing said protesters.
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2011-11-17 12:24
The UK political system doesn't have to react to things like riots, strikes and the like. Once they're in thats it, they stop pretending to listen.
SLAB people are being hypocritical about this, pretending to support the people who's lives they've helped destroy.
If reports and comments are to be believed and I understand them correctly, I support these folks because it seems their pension pot is in good shape, if it was in deficit then yes, cuts need to be made. That makes this a smash and grab and unfair.
I know folks complain aout the generosity of these pensions but we all start from the same block (more or less.) I don't think its fair to condemn public sector workers for their career choice and the benefits there-of.
Its the cheif-high-heid-yins that need to be brought to task, the high level bankers and establishment figures in government and all the mutual back scratching that goes on, its that that causes all this financial mess, not some gym teacher with his or her decent pension.
SLAB people are being hypocritical about this, pretending to support the people who's lives they've helped destroy.
If reports and comments are to be believed and I understand them correctly, I support these folks because it seems their pension pot is in good shape, if it was in deficit then yes, cuts need to be made. That makes this a smash and grab and unfair.
I know folks complain aout the generosity of these pensions but we all start from the same block (more or less.) I don't think its fair to condemn public sector workers for their career choice and the benefits there-of.
Its the cheif-high-heid-yins that need to be brought to task, the high level bankers and establishment figures in government and all the mutual back scratching that goes on, its that that causes all this financial mess, not some gym teacher with his or her decent pension.
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2011-11-17 12:43
The Pensions are not in a good shape, if you look at all the facts.
The truth is that the age demographic is going to change in the coming decades and people are going to have to work longer as they are living longer.
Effectively Public Sector workers like myself are going to have to work longer and contribute more to their pensions to offset this change. It is the projections into the future which are of concern, not the current financial performance of the funds.
Ps. I opted out of the Public Sector pension, as I just don't see it as a good deal for someone currently in their 30's. I prefer getting my full wages and investing them in other ventures.
I am not the only one who thinks like this. There are increasingly more and more Public Sector Workers opting out and this trend will only see increased pressure on the pension funds; as less folk are paying in to support increasing numbers who are making withdrawls.
The truth is that the age demographic is going to change in the coming decades and people are going to have to work longer as they are living longer.
Effectively Public Sector workers like myself are going to have to work longer and contribute more to their pensions to offset this change. It is the projections into the future which are of concern, not the current financial performance of the funds.
Ps. I opted out of the Public Sector pension, as I just don't see it as a good deal for someone currently in their 30's. I prefer getting my full wages and investing them in other ventures.
I am not the only one who thinks like this. There are increasingly more and more Public Sector Workers opting out and this trend will only see increased pressure on the pension funds; as less folk are paying in to support increasing numbers who are making withdrawls.
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2011-11-17 12:44
Good point pa_broon! I have no gripe that these people have done well for themselves in their career choice. I only wonder what difference striking will make at this particular point in time?
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2011-11-17 21:08
Fully agree and let us all remember the biggest raid on pensions was made by Gordon Brown!
I would still like to see an estimate of the cost of selling our gold reserves at rock bottom prices (What was the gap between low price and high price times volume sold)- this does not show on the debt list left by Labour. Labour lives on false accountancy e.g. PFI etc
I would still like to see an estimate of the cost of selling our gold reserves at rock bottom prices (What was the gap between low price and high price times volume sold)- this does not show on the debt list left by Labour. Labour lives on false accountancy e.g. PFI etc
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2011-11-17 12:42
OT:
So Abertay University wasn't on Mike Russells 'Hit List' afterall.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
and a reminder of Elmer at FMQ regarding this.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
So Abertay University wasn't on Mike Russells 'Hit List' afterall.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
and a reminder of Elmer at FMQ regarding this.
bbc.co.uk/.../...
#
2011-11-17 12:45
Well, presumably, The First Eck may take the opportunity to perhaps wave a piece of paper at said unfortunate during FMQs today should the opportunity arise.
Perhaps an enterprising backbencher about to go into the Chamber could try and catch the POs eye and ask about it ?
Perhaps an enterprising backbencher about to go into the Chamber could try and catch the POs eye and ask about it ?
#
2011-11-17 13:03
It is as it appeared - Elmer's piece of wavy paper was as blank as Elmer's political convictions, pity Elmer had not thought to wave a 'tissue' instaed as we could now be suggesting it was all just a 'tissue of lies'.
#
2011-11-17 13:22
...Or a wee white flag.
On FMQ's, wee Ruthie was dire. She will not last out the remainder of the financial year (if as long as that!)
Alex, easily dealt with Iain Gray. They both got heated and animated... Iain Gray because of lack of control and Alex Salmond in measured doses as required.
Edit: Wow, the Tory's just got badly beaten up by Salmond regarding their North of England counterparts comments on "what Action are the Conservatives going to take to counter Scotlands' economic advantages".
On FMQ's, wee Ruthie was dire. She will not last out the remainder of the financial year (if as long as that!)
Alex, easily dealt with Iain Gray. They both got heated and animated... Iain Gray because of lack of control and Alex Salmond in measured doses as required.
Edit: Wow, the Tory's just got badly beaten up by Salmond regarding their North of England counterparts comments on "what Action are the Conservatives going to take to counter Scotlands' economic advantages".
#
2011-11-17 15:19
Ruth Davidson was simply pathetic today. Annabel, even with her contrived humour, seemed statesman-like – or should that be stateswoman-like? Davidson’s own party seemed embarrassed at her performance. After a couple of weeks in the job and I think her jaicket is on a shoogly peg already.
Afterwards I switched to a news channel and caught Milliband delivering an economic speech. He has all the gravitas and authority of a 10 year old boy on this subject. Compared to Alex Salmond how could anyone take this man seriously?
Afterwards I switched to a news channel and caught Milliband delivering an economic speech. He has all the gravitas and authority of a 10 year old boy on this subject. Compared to Alex Salmond how could anyone take this man seriously?
#
2011-11-17 15:55
I seen Milliband in another interview blaming the Tories for the economic mess. Miliband you prat.
#
2011-11-17 13:11
holebender - I hate to be trite and say charity begins at home - BUT there are lots of vunerable people here that need our help. Should we not try to solve our own problems first before trying to solve the problems of other people ?
#
2011-11-17 13:30
We have the ludicrous situation of the Labour no hopers not turning up to work and the remainder at Holyrood debating an issue reserved to Westminster.
One lot making empty gestures and the rest contributing to global warming.
One lot making empty gestures and the rest contributing to global warming.
#
2011-11-17 13:52
ituna semea
“ We have the ludicrous situation of the Labour no hopers not turning up to work and the remainder at Holyrood debating an issue reserved to Westminster.
One lot making empty gestures and the rest contributing to global warming. “
Never mind ituna given time the Scottish Government will be taking over the business of improving the conditions of the Scottish people, to help them realise their aspirations, under more beneficent conditions than they currently have.
So don’t worry your wee head off on that score.
“ We have the ludicrous situation of the Labour no hopers not turning up to work and the remainder at Holyrood debating an issue reserved to Westminster.
One lot making empty gestures and the rest contributing to global warming. “
Never mind ituna given time the Scottish Government will be taking over the business of improving the conditions of the Scottish people, to help them realise their aspirations, under more beneficent conditions than they currently have.
So don’t worry your wee head off on that score.
#
2011-11-17 13:34
Gray was frothing at the mouth stating someone had to stand up for the young umemployed. Listen mate I would not have you stand up for me if I was unemployed in fact i would tell you to ---- off as you have no credible policy for getting me a job. The man over there you are shouting at has so I want him to stand up for me.
#
2011-11-17 13:38
Isn't it strange that the strike is to take place on St. Andrew's day when any media display of Scottishness will be taken up by this national strike?
#
2011-11-17 13:41
As usual, to save everybody checking BwB, I've written his piece for him.
The time, dear friends, is drawing near. Every First Minister’s Questions brings it closer.
That Giant of the Northern British Political Scene, That Colossus, the best First Minister that Scotland never had, Iain Grey, will soon step nobly aside to allow one of his talented colleagues to take up the task of bringing the megalomaniac secessionists to task.
But, weep not. To hand, dear friends, for we have Him still, however little time remains.
Once more, imperiously, Iain Grey stood up to ask his questions. You could see the blood drain from the collective cheeks of the separatist benches. His command of facts and figures stupendous, his rhetorical technique almost surgically precise, he sliced and diced the so-called First Minister.
His humorous comments so gut-wrenchingly amusing that even the serried ranks of the secessionists, our Land’s disgrace, had to suppress laughter as Alex Salmond pathetically squirmed and writhed with his tongue-tied incapability to deny the truth of the words of this stupendous political force.
And so, to the Fragrant Ruth Davidson. Already filling and indeed stretching the sensible flatties of the Sainted Bella, her delivery perhaps lacking in the good humour of the doyen of the right, she was left very little to do. Her kick-boxingly toned muscles straining, she swung the cudgel at what was left of Salmond, reduced as he was to a quivering and nervous wreck sinking back feartedly into his seat.
It was almost unfair – Iain Grey had already done everything but administer the coup de grace. Ruth tried and came close, but it fell to the white shining Richard Baker, one of those on whose shoulders the future of this poor region relies, to finish the job.
His brain working overtime to keep up with his mouth, Baker hammered the final nail with his prescient question on female unemployment. Didn’t the secessionists realise that it was all their fault and that no matter how they tried to manipulate the figures that showed that Female Unemployment in North Britain was actually falling, they should don the hair shirts and whip themselves into bloody insensibility before handing the keys to the Parly back to their rightful owners ?
Oh people of Northern Britain, I weep. What have you done ? Reflect and Repent on your work of May 5th, taken in by promises of Fixed Referendums, Free Prescriptions and Competent Government.
And that’s how it was at FMQs today. And hey, you know the really great thing.
Nobody is allowed to say any different on the BBC.
The time, dear friends, is drawing near. Every First Minister’s Questions brings it closer.
That Giant of the Northern British Political Scene, That Colossus, the best First Minister that Scotland never had, Iain Grey, will soon step nobly aside to allow one of his talented colleagues to take up the task of bringing the megalomaniac secessionists to task.
But, weep not. To hand, dear friends, for we have Him still, however little time remains.
Once more, imperiously, Iain Grey stood up to ask his questions. You could see the blood drain from the collective cheeks of the separatist benches. His command of facts and figures stupendous, his rhetorical technique almost surgically precise, he sliced and diced the so-called First Minister.
His humorous comments so gut-wrenchingly amusing that even the serried ranks of the secessionists, our Land’s disgrace, had to suppress laughter as Alex Salmond pathetically squirmed and writhed with his tongue-tied incapability to deny the truth of the words of this stupendous political force.
And so, to the Fragrant Ruth Davidson. Already filling and indeed stretching the sensible flatties of the Sainted Bella, her delivery perhaps lacking in the good humour of the doyen of the right, she was left very little to do. Her kick-boxingly toned muscles straining, she swung the cudgel at what was left of Salmond, reduced as he was to a quivering and nervous wreck sinking back feartedly into his seat.
It was almost unfair – Iain Grey had already done everything but administer the coup de grace. Ruth tried and came close, but it fell to the white shining Richard Baker, one of those on whose shoulders the future of this poor region relies, to finish the job.
His brain working overtime to keep up with his mouth, Baker hammered the final nail with his prescient question on female unemployment. Didn’t the secessionists realise that it was all their fault and that no matter how they tried to manipulate the figures that showed that Female Unemployment in North Britain was actually falling, they should don the hair shirts and whip themselves into bloody insensibility before handing the keys to the Parly back to their rightful owners ?
Oh people of Northern Britain, I weep. What have you done ? Reflect and Repent on your work of May 5th, taken in by promises of Fixed Referendums, Free Prescriptions and Competent Government.
And that’s how it was at FMQs today. And hey, you know the really great thing.
Nobody is allowed to say any different on the BBC.
#
2011-11-17 13:59
chiefy1724
Excellent post, it has brightened up an otherwise dull day for me.
Go give your braces a twang for me. I would do it for you but I am still ROFLMAO.
Excellent post, it has brightened up an otherwise dull day for me.
Go give your braces a twang for me. I would do it for you but I am still ROFLMAO.
#
2011-11-17 13:58
And so, to the Fragrant Ruth Davidson. Already filling and indeed stretching the sensible flatties of the Sainted Bella, her delivery perhaps lacking in the good humour of the doyen of the right, she was left very little to do.
ROFLMAO! :0D
ROFLMAO! :0D
#
2011-11-17 14:15
Am I the only one that takes offence at a UK union voting for strike action on a Scottish public holiday*?
*I am aware this is not an official public holiday, but legislation has been passed to allow banks to close on this day, and I believe it is planned for this to ultimately be a national holiday.
*I am aware this is not an official public holiday, but legislation has been passed to allow banks to close on this day, and I believe it is planned for this to ultimately be a national holiday.
#
2011-11-17 15:03
"Am I the only one that takes offence at a UK union voting for strike action on a Scottish public holiday*?"
You can conjure up a grievance if you like about these people striking on a Scottish Public Holiday which is not a Scottish Public Holiday. Me, I take offence at Public Servants striking against the Public.
You can conjure up a grievance if you like about these people striking on a Scottish Public Holiday which is not a Scottish Public Holiday. Me, I take offence at Public Servants striking against the Public.
#
2011-11-17 14:32
OT
Currently Scotland Bill being discussed with John Swinney taking part
live
scottish.parliament.uk/.../...
Currently Scotland Bill being discussed with John Swinney taking part
live
scottish.parliament.uk/.../...
#
2011-11-17 15:55
McLetchie tried to be clever in twisting things, much to the annoyance of John Swinney
Willie Rennie, was hopeless in asking inane questions, such as, who would collect excise duty? - let me guess, could that be who currently collects excise duty, Rennie is such a no mark!
The committe is now in recess till 3pm, when I think we have mental Micky Moore on stage
Willie Rennie, was hopeless in asking inane questions, such as, who would collect excise duty? - let me guess, could that be who currently collects excise duty, Rennie is such a no mark!
The committe is now in recess till 3pm, when I think we have mental Micky Moore on stage
#
2011-11-17 15:59
Agree with you:
He argues that reduced alcohol intake through the SG new proposals on pricing would bring in less revenue so SG has less to spend. (BAD)
Swinney says ach BUT savings in the health service because less drunkeness and emergency calls to hospitals etc etc.
(GOOD)
McLetchie then says this would reduce the costs in the health service and therefore the SG has a plan to cut spending in the Health service.
You could not make that up.
He's a wrecker only out to create headlines in the MSM and has no interest in the Scottish people other than to keep them under the heel.
The snake!
He argues that reduced alcohol intake through the SG new proposals on pricing would bring in less revenue so SG has less to spend. (BAD)
Swinney says ach BUT savings in the health service because less drunkeness and emergency calls to hospitals etc etc.
(GOOD)
McLetchie then says this would reduce the costs in the health service and therefore the SG has a plan to cut spending in the Health service.
You could not make that up.
He's a wrecker only out to create headlines in the MSM and has no interest in the Scottish people other than to keep them under the heel.
The snake!
#
2011-11-17 14:58
Fact remains folks that private pensions come nowhere near the level of public sector pensions.
As someone pointed out recently, to get a pension worth £25,000 a year - which is what a teacher on a salary of £37,000 can expect - would require you to have a pension pot of £500,000. Nowadays that's an almost impossible amount for someone in the private sector to achieve so the real question is how do we improve the lot of people that aren't working in the public sector?
As someone pointed out recently, to get a pension worth £25,000 a year - which is what a teacher on a salary of £37,000 can expect - would require you to have a pension pot of £500,000. Nowadays that's an almost impossible amount for someone in the private sector to achieve so the real question is how do we improve the lot of people that aren't working in the public sector?
#
2011-11-17 15:20
"...the real question is how do we improve the lot of people that aren't working in the public sector?"
Dead right. The main aim for the private sector is to make money at the expense of the standard of living of their workers.
Why should the private sector be taken as the norm for all things that are good?
By their very nature they require a race to the bottom.
Dead right. The main aim for the private sector is to make money at the expense of the standard of living of their workers.
Why should the private sector be taken as the norm for all things that are good?
By their very nature they require a race to the bottom.
#
2011-11-17 15:35
Quoting Wee-Scamp:
Strikes me that this is symptomatic of 'divide and rule'
Fact remains folks that private pensions come nowhere near the level of public sector pensions.
As someone pointed out recently, to get a pension worth £25,000 a year - which is what a teacher on a salary of £37,000 can expect - would require you to have a pension pot of £500,000. Nowadays that's an almost impossible amount for someone in the private sector to achieve so the real question is how do we improve the lot of people that aren't working in the public sector?
Strikes me that this is symptomatic of 'divide and rule'
#
2011-11-17 21:05
Are you sure about your figures. I have a feeling this was the revised proposal from westminster aired on BBC as the UK example which only applies to England and maybe Wales but reported as UK.
The figure of £37000 salary is not one I recognise. I think the top of the main scale is Scotland is closer to £32000 unless you have qualified as Chartered Teacher and then it rises to £39000. The current 40/80ths if you manage to stick it for 40 years would give a 50% final salary pension so between 16-20000 annually for a class teacher. Management will have its own figures.
Your figures are, I think, the offer which was rejected in England as a lower lump sum and a higher percentage, but if not accepted on that day was removed from the table by Alexander (and I would assume from Scotland due to English reluctance to accept?)
The change recently made I think to my pension was to calculate it using the highest salary in the last three years. This was because of McCrones phased retirement which could seriously reduce your pension if your phasing became part time. I think the current changes were trying to introduce a system of calculation based on 40/100ths rather than 40/80ths so giving a 40% rather than 50% final salary pension and was trying to introduce an average salary rather than final, so all of my salarys from the last 32 years of teaching would be aggregated. It was also going to be cut to 75% of amount paid if anyone elected to go before 66 years old.
As a side issue this might actually end up costing more as there was some research a few years ago that found teachers of my subject had a life expectency of 2 years after retirment if they kept going to 65. If it is raised to 66 the payments for dying in service are a lot more than dying out of service.
The figure of £37000 salary is not one I recognise. I think the top of the main scale is Scotland is closer to £32000 unless you have qualified as Chartered Teacher and then it rises to £39000. The current 40/80ths if you manage to stick it for 40 years would give a 50% final salary pension so between 16-20000 annually for a class teacher. Management will have its own figures.
Your figures are, I think, the offer which was rejected in England as a lower lump sum and a higher percentage, but if not accepted on that day was removed from the table by Alexander (and I would assume from Scotland due to English reluctance to accept?)
The change recently made I think to my pension was to calculate it using the highest salary in the last three years. This was because of McCrones phased retirement which could seriously reduce your pension if your phasing became part time. I think the current changes were trying to introduce a system of calculation based on 40/100ths rather than 40/80ths so giving a 40% rather than 50% final salary pension and was trying to introduce an average salary rather than final, so all of my salarys from the last 32 years of teaching would be aggregated. It was also going to be cut to 75% of amount paid if anyone elected to go before 66 years old.
As a side issue this might actually end up costing more as there was some research a few years ago that found teachers of my subject had a life expectency of 2 years after retirment if they kept going to 65. If it is raised to 66 the payments for dying in service are a lot more than dying out of service.
#
2011-11-17 15:47
I thought people strike to improve their pay and conditions. They aren't. Idiots.
#
2011-11-17 15:53
For people striking on the 30th November we in Scotland have a solution to the problem - Independence. Once we are up and running and on our way to being wealthy by keeping our surplus in taxes and oil and gas revenues we can reverse the changes.
#
2011-11-17 16:18
They actually mananged to do something half-right (probably a quarter right)political ly speaking.
Yes, it's a nonsense when this bunch of politicians go 'on strike' to show solidarity because they are not affected in the slightest personally.
They have mananged to put the SNP in the slightly uncomfortable position of not acting against the Tories the way they are 'acting' against them.
In truth the SNP won't come off badly because people expect the SNP to be in business looking after the affairs of the ship of state.
Yet in a small token way, Labour gained here.
I suspect the SNP would have ultimately come over as irresponsible had they closed up shop for the day...
Labour - a joke but they managed a wee political thingamajig here - not much of anything but the first time they've actually managed anything for 30 years.
Yes, it's a nonsense when this bunch of politicians go 'on strike' to show solidarity because they are not affected in the slightest personally.
They have mananged to put the SNP in the slightly uncomfortable position of not acting against the Tories the way they are 'acting' against them.
In truth the SNP won't come off badly because people expect the SNP to be in business looking after the affairs of the ship of state.
Yet in a small token way, Labour gained here.
I suspect the SNP would have ultimately come over as irresponsible had they closed up shop for the day...
Labour - a joke but they managed a wee political thingamajig here - not much of anything but the first time they've actually managed anything for 30 years.
#
2011-11-17 16:34
scottish.parliament.uk/.../...
Moore concedes things are different since May 6th.
A lot of fencing with the 'safety point' on here, lots of dialogue but no ice melting. He's stalling big time.
He's going to look at prudential borrowing and bonds.
The Scottish Government wants more (oliver Twist) but UK is not sure about affordability.
The UK financial situation ain't gonna allow the present arrangements to change.
The UK government never promised to implement the Scotland Bill in full it depends on consultation process.
He is asked if the Bill at present satisfies what Scottish people want.
Lots of feedback and issues raised in UK 2010 election and parties supporting the Bill got 75% of the votes ( unionists)
David Mundell chips in arguing that the Bill has had an extensive airing.
The 2011 elections has not given the new SG a mandate to 'beef up' (my words)
the Scotland Bill.
It's all the usual stuff
Moore wont acknowledge the new 6 proposals to the Bill.
Its all polite fencing practise.
Suggestion by Mundell to bring it on (referendum)
Chair Fabioni reminds Mundell it's the Unionist Scotland Bill that's being discussed.
He retorts with the 2010 election 75% of voters voted for (unionist parties)
Moore concedes things are different since May 6th.
A lot of fencing with the 'safety point' on here, lots of dialogue but no ice melting. He's stalling big time.
He's going to look at prudential borrowing and bonds.
The Scottish Government wants more (oliver Twist) but UK is not sure about affordability.
The UK financial situation ain't gonna allow the present arrangements to change.
The UK government never promised to implement the Scotland Bill in full it depends on consultation process.
He is asked if the Bill at present satisfies what Scottish people want.
Lots of feedback and issues raised in UK 2010 election and parties supporting the Bill got 75% of the votes ( unionists)
David Mundell chips in arguing that the Bill has had an extensive airing.
The 2011 elections has not given the new SG a mandate to 'beef up' (my words)
the Scotland Bill.
It's all the usual stuff
Moore wont acknowledge the new 6 proposals to the Bill.
Its all polite fencing practise.
Suggestion by Mundell to bring it on (referendum)
Chair Fabioni reminds Mundell it's the Unionist Scotland Bill that's being discussed.
He retorts with the 2010 election 75% of voters voted for (unionist parties)
#
2011-11-17 17:31
Is he for real?
There is no real point in setting this up apart from confusing everone and trying to drive a wedge between Scottish Business and the Scottish Government
Moore is clearly empire building and justifying the existance of the Scotland Office.
'aims to tackle problems facing the Scottish economy and businesses' I thought that was supposed to be the Scottish Government that is supposed to do this through the its agencies.
'Its activities will feed into the UK Government's Growth Review.'
Will that also include the Scottish Government, which as a basic matter of courtesy should be included, somehowI suspect that will not happen.
The end result that Moore is probably hoping for is that any business successes will be claimed by the UK Government and aim to stop the SNP business train
There is no real point in setting this up apart from confusing everone and trying to drive a wedge between Scottish Business and the Scottish Government
Moore is clearly empire building and justifying the existance of the Scotland Office.
'aims to tackle problems facing the Scottish economy and businesses' I thought that was supposed to be the Scottish Government that is supposed to do this through the its agencies.
'Its activities will feed into the UK Government's Growth Review.'
Will that also include the Scottish Government, which as a basic matter of courtesy should be included, somehowI suspect that will not happen.
The end result that Moore is probably hoping for is that any business successes will be claimed by the UK Government and aim to stop the SNP business train
#
2011-11-17 17:37
This will be part of the two governments idea that Moore and friends have been spouting recently.
The colonial governor telling the natives who is really in charge.
The colonial governor telling the natives who is really in charge.
#
2011-11-17 19:13
The more they attack the Scottish seat of power,
The more they attack the Scottish people,
The closer we get to being free.
Then it will all change... there will be no more attacks to see.
The more they attack the Scottish people,
The closer we get to being free.
Then it will all change... there will be no more attacks to see.
#
2011-11-17 17:17
O/T I see that there is to be no university merger on Tayside - just another occasion for an apology from Elmer then. I won't hold my breath.
#
2011-11-17 17:35
I will be right behind Hoy trying to push him off his bike. That cretin has gone on record saying he'd prefer to be in a british team even if Scotland was independent. He's also refusing to attend the Commonwealth Games for Scotland because it interferes with his training for the british team.
#
2011-11-17 18:10
Is there a link for Hoy not riding or even attending in 2014... the Velodrome is named after him.
#
2011-11-17 18:20
This is from a few years ago now, but here he is saying that he's keen to represent Scotland in 2014:
telegraph.co.uk/.../...
Don't worry, though, he's still a tube:
telegraph.co.uk/.../...
telegraph.co.uk/.../...
Don't worry, though, he's still a tube:
telegraph.co.uk/.../...
#
2011-11-17 18:28
Whether he rides or not will depend on whether he retires or not... but I would be shocked if he decided not to turn up. I think Islegard may have picked up a random rumor somewhere. The reason of 'interference with training' kinda backs this reasoning up.
Edit: I wouldn't doubt he is a self serving Unionist... any Scot who it seems does well at something and gets their Knighthood, almost without exception; forgets their roots and those they left behind (often evidenced by their over keenness to state that they always remember where they come from!)
Money and the illusion of power does that to many men!
Ps. Any true patron of the Scottish nation would tell them where they could stick their Knighthood... "You try pointing that sword anywhere near my neck and I'll take it off you Wallace style queenie... and ram it up yer!!!" *;0)
Oops... just gave away my leanings for a Scottish Republic *:o)
Edit: I wouldn't doubt he is a self serving Unionist... any Scot who it seems does well at something and gets their Knighthood, almost without exception; forgets their roots and those they left behind (often evidenced by their over keenness to state that they always remember where they come from!)
Money and the illusion of power does that to many men!
Ps. Any true patron of the Scottish nation would tell them where they could stick their Knighthood... "You try pointing that sword anywhere near my neck and I'll take it off you Wallace style queenie... and ram it up yer!!!" *;0)
Oops... just gave away my leanings for a Scottish Republic *:o)
#
2011-11-17 17:45
Moore on Scotland Bill in the committee
-----------------------------------
Asked by Stewart Maxwell about the Scottish 'veto' on Bill he talked round the question and would not say Yea! or Nae! , he anticipates an agreement.
It is most unhelpful and wont be drawn into that discussion it's negative!
Asked about what would be in a basket of taxes available apart from income tax.
He wouldn't care to list them - we have to ask.
Why was the 10% selected to calculate a value for taxes.
Moore did not have a good reason to justify it.
Wullie Rennie!
Starts by saying he thought 10% rate was OK.
Corporation tax reduction = less revenue and may be compensated with higher business activity.
Moore being fed by his pals on the committee (Kelly LAB) (Rennie LIB)
now stale stuff.
Wee baker has left the committee room his heed's nipping!
Mundell says he accepts that some members of the committee (SNP) wont ever agree with some aspects of the Bill.
He seems briefed to say the things that Moore can't say in public.
Moore reminds the SNP chair that they did not contribute to the Calman Commission but found common ground with labour and others and that formed the debate and consequent legislation on offer.
Fabioni reminds Moore that Independence wasn't allowed on the Calman agenda so that was why SNP did not participate.
Clarity clause ! Moore says that no one has brought that forward to him for debate.
Fabioni?
If a clarity clause was brought forward would it be put on the agenda. No answer!
Will the UK government intervene in the referendum or put it in the Scotland Bill.
Waffle waffle the priority is for the Scottish Gov to bring it's referendum Let's get it done
Wont answer the question asked 4 times now,
Fabioni says disapointed at no answer!
Then asks it for a 5th time
No answer !
He just wants to get out of there.
Asksed again if the words he said last year that there would be no interference in the referendum
No answer!
Well Fabioni gets marks for persistence
I would have been irked with her myself
Moore is not a happy bunny!
That's all folks!
-----------------------------------
Asked by Stewart Maxwell about the Scottish 'veto' on Bill he talked round the question and would not say Yea! or Nae! , he anticipates an agreement.
It is most unhelpful and wont be drawn into that discussion it's negative!
Asked about what would be in a basket of taxes available apart from income tax.
He wouldn't care to list them - we have to ask.
Why was the 10% selected to calculate a value for taxes.
Moore did not have a good reason to justify it.
Wullie Rennie!
Starts by saying he thought 10% rate was OK.
Corporation tax reduction = less revenue and may be compensated with higher business activity.
Moore being fed by his pals on the committee (Kelly LAB) (Rennie LIB)
now stale stuff.
Wee baker has left the committee room his heed's nipping!
Mundell says he accepts that some members of the committee (SNP) wont ever agree with some aspects of the Bill.
He seems briefed to say the things that Moore can't say in public.
Moore reminds the SNP chair that they did not contribute to the Calman Commission but found common ground with labour and others and that formed the debate and consequent legislation on offer.
Fabioni reminds Moore that Independence wasn't allowed on the Calman agenda so that was why SNP did not participate.
Clarity clause ! Moore says that no one has brought that forward to him for debate.
Fabioni?
If a clarity clause was brought forward would it be put on the agenda. No answer!
Will the UK government intervene in the referendum or put it in the Scotland Bill.
Waffle waffle the priority is for the Scottish Gov to bring it's referendum Let's get it done
Wont answer the question asked 4 times now,
Fabioni says disapointed at no answer!
Then asks it for a 5th time
No answer !
He just wants to get out of there.
Asksed again if the words he said last year that there would be no interference in the referendum
No answer!
Well Fabioni gets marks for persistence
I would have been irked with her myself
Moore is not a happy bunny!
That's all folks!
#
2011-11-17 18:15
Thanks Dave, Just got in and missed all this afternoon's events, the running summary was excellent.
#
2011-11-17 20:16
"Why was the 10% selected to calculate a value for taxes."
I believe Calman has already adnmitted that it was an arbitrary figure with no calcultions to measure its likely effect, but it was a good question to ask Moore and it seems he is admitting to nothing. Silence confirms what we already know.
I believe Calman has already adnmitted that it was an arbitrary figure with no calcultions to measure its likely effect, but it was a good question to ask Moore and it seems he is admitting to nothing. Silence confirms what we already know.
#
2011-11-17 17:55
Thanks, call me dave.
Has anyone noticed that no one else has published anything about the Scottish Gov's discussions with the big6 to reduce energy costs?
Wonder why.
Has anyone noticed that no one else has published anything about the Scottish Gov's discussions with the big6 to reduce energy costs?
Wonder why.
#
2011-11-17 18:20
As most people here will be aware, BBC Scotland is currently prohibiting comments on the Brian Taylor (politics) and Douglas Fraser (business and finance) blogs. In response to requests and suggestions from various quarters I have now established board dedicated to countering this blatant censorship.
Brian Taylor: referendumdebate.com/.../...
Douglas Fraser: referendumdebate.com/.../...
Brian Taylor: referendumdebate.com/.../...
Douglas Fraser: referendumdebate.com/.../...
#
2011-11-17 18:40
O/T (but to do with Mr Moore)
I was just looking at some stuff on Mr Moore(there is such a lot) but I was curious about this ...
"Moore supports work placements for young people"
scotlandoffice.gov.uk/.../...
Can anyone tell me if this is the same scheme as the one highlighted below.
Because if it is then I hope there is some way that this can be stopped as ....well what a despicable way to treat our young folk in these trying (enough) times.
I hope it's not but given their record......
"Young jobseekers told to work without pay or lose unemployment benefits"
guardian.co.uk/.../...
I was just looking at some stuff on Mr Moore(there is such a lot) but I was curious about this ...
"Moore supports work placements for young people"
scotlandoffice.gov.uk/.../...
Can anyone tell me if this is the same scheme as the one highlighted below.
Because if it is then I hope there is some way that this can be stopped as ....well what a despicable way to treat our young folk in these trying (enough) times.
I hope it's not but given their record......
"Young jobseekers told to work without pay or lose unemployment benefits"
guardian.co.uk/.../...
#
2011-11-17 19:21
Off topic.
According to an article in today’s Telegraph, Lord Robertson is going to make a speech criticising the SNP’s position on NATO amongst other things.
Below is what the Scottish Government said in the white paper they published in 2009 as part of their plans for a referendum. Plans that had to dropped in the face of obdurate Unionist opposition to the idea of a referendum.
From Your Scotland, Your Voice
Quote:
Link to full document: www.scotland.gov.uk/.../10
The Telegraph article does not appear to be on their web site but the article was on the front page of the dead tree edition.
According to an article in today’s Telegraph, Lord Robertson is going to make a speech criticising the SNP’s position on NATO amongst other things.
Below is what the Scottish Government said in the white paper they published in 2009 as part of their plans for a referendum. Plans that had to dropped in the face of obdurate Unionist opposition to the idea of a referendum.
From Your Scotland, Your Voice
Quote:
Alliances
8.42 An independent Scotland would have choices regarding its membership of international alliances. For example, countries such as Norway and Denmark are members of NATO whereas countries such as Finland and Ireland are not. Scotland, and this is the stance favoured by the SNP, could co-operate with international alliances such as NATO through its Partnership for Peace programme while not being a member.
8.43 Whatever the outcome of a strategic defence review, an independent Scotland's closest allies would remain its current partners in the United Kingdom. Continued defence co-operation on training, basing and procurement arrangements would benefit both Scotland and the other nations of the United Kingdom.
Link to full document: www.scotland.gov.uk/.../10
The Telegraph article does not appear to be on their web site but the article was on the front page of the dead tree edition.
#
2011-11-17 20:26
I am sure I saw a picture of Lord Robertson in the Herald this morning, with a similar article attached, but I can't see it now.
Are they saving it for another day?
Are they saving it for another day?
#
2011-11-17 22:43
I did not see it when I looked at the Herald this morning so had a look in the Digital Herald but did not see any sign of it.
Probably tomorrow's front page.
Probably tomorrow's front page.
#
2011-11-17 23:12
Apologies. It's a story in the Daily Record. That's where I saw it.
Robertson's predictions about devolution were short of the mark - "Devolution will kill Nationalism stone dead" - so how can anyone be listening to him now?
Robertson's predictions about devolution were short of the mark - "Devolution will kill Nationalism stone dead" - so how can anyone be listening to him now?
#
2011-11-17 19:53
Firstly if the Labour MSPs decide to strike on 30th November then they should automatically lose a day's wages. Secondly, the day's business should go ahead whether they are present or not. If decisions are made in their absence, tough, they were the ones who chose to accept themselves.
However, if business is set aside because of their absence, then Labour have effectively won and this must not be allowed to happen. Who are they to dictate that 30 November should be a holiday for all.
Also, the legality of such action must be looked at.
However, if business is set aside because of their absence, then Labour have effectively won and this must not be allowed to happen. Who are they to dictate that 30 November should be a holiday for all.
Also, the legality of such action must be looked at.
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