Monday, 12 December 2011 22:33
48 Comments
By a Newsnet reporter 
David Cameron was under increasing pressure tonight as a poll carried out on behalf of the Times newspaper revealed concerns amongst voters over his Euro veto.
The survey carried out by Populus indicated a widespread belief amongst voters that the PM’s refusal to take part in Euro treaty negotiations had weakened the UK’s influence.
The survey showed that in the UK as a whole over half (56%) of those polled believed that the PM’s actions will reduce the influence of the UK inside the EU, in Scotland the figure was 53%.
The poll also suggested a significant UK/Scotland divide when respondents were asked whether they thought Mr Cameron had weakened the prospect of economic recovery. In Scotland more people (27%) thought the PM had damaged the recovery with 21% disagreeing.
However, the UK figure showed a reversal with only 24% thinking the recovery would be harmed against 27% who disagreed.
In a sign of the suspicion with which Mr Cameron's actions are being viewed in Scotland, 39% of Scots, more than in any other UK region, thought the veto was only used because of pressure from Eurosceptic Tories. Less than half those, 17% disagreed.
Commenting on the poll, SNP MEP Alyn Smith said:
"Cameron might have fooled Conservative backbenchers but he certainly hasn't fooled people in Scotland.
"Cameron's actions are being seen for the political posturing they are and there is clear concern that not only has the UK's influence in Europe been sacrificed but that this will do little for the UK's economic recovery.
"David Cameron doesn't just represent Tory backbenchers in Europe he represents the whole of the UK and for as long as that includes Scotland then he is duty bound to provide an explanation of what economic assessment was made and what the impact will be on key Scottish industries from his decision.
"This poll shows that people across Scotland doubt David Cameron's motivation and have real concerns about the impact this decision will have."
The Times poll follows another survey carried out at the weekend for the Mail on Sunday that showed Labour’s UK lead over the Tories had been wiped out following Mr Cameron’s refusal to negotiate with European leaders.
Labour leader Ed Miliband called the PM's move “a bad deal for Britain” that “secures no extra protection for British business." Mr Miliband added: "The Prime Minister made this deal not on national interests but because of the Conservative Party."
Mr Miliband was joined by former Lib Dem leader Lord Ashdown who branded the veto a "catastrophically bad move".
Tonight Deputy PM Nick Clegg further distanced himself from the Tory leader’s decision. When speaking in an interview he confirmed that he “did not agree” with his coalition partner.
The Lib Dem leader, who played down the fact that he was absent today when Mr Cameron was speaking in the House of Commons, said “The Prime Minister and I clearly do not agree on the outcome of the summit last week.
“I have made it very clear that I think isolation in Europe, where we are one against 26, is potentially a bad thing for jobs, a bad thing for growth and a bad thing for the livelihoods of millions of people in this country.”
The Scottish government has demanded that Mr Cameron explain his decision to the other three devolved administrations. First Minister Alex Salmond claimed that the isolation of the UK would have a damaging impact on Scottish industries and the Scottish financial sector.
However the Tory PM’s refusal to negotiate with the 26 other European leaders was praised by CBI Scotland director Iain McMillan who insisted that Germany and France were to blame for not being prepared to give ground.
Mr McMillan said Mr Cameron’s decision was needed in order to “defend the City of London and its position as the financial centre of Europe”.
Populus polled almost 200 people [number being checked] in Scotland as part of a UK wide poll for the Times. Asked do you agree with the following statements the results were as follows:
David Cameron's use of the veto will reduce the influence of the UK inside the European Union (UK average in brackets)
Agree 53% (56%)
Disagree 8% (9%)
DK 18% (17%)
David Cameron's use of the veto weakens the prospect of a UK economic recovery
Agree 27% (24%)
Disagree 21% (27%)
DK 22% (22%)
David Cameron only used the veto because he was under pressure from Eurosceptic Conservative MPs
Agree 39% (35%)
Disagree 17% (22%)
DK 21% (24%)
Comments
#
2011-12-12 22:59
Germany and France are driving the agenda on 'saving the Euro'. Everybody else is behind the 8 ball.
For Cameron and his chums, it's all about the city. QMV in the EU means that despite Cameron's tantrum, they will out vote him leaving him with just one option left. Take the UK out of the EU. That will be great for Scotland as it means the EU is off the agenda and we can concentrate on simply nullifying the Union with England.
Ergo, sit back and do nothing and watch it all, unfold. Good news is, that given the 'Respect Agenda', Cameron might take the UK out of the EU without any reference to Salmond. Did he make the call ahead of Friday - No, nor will he ever.
For Cameron and his chums, it's all about the city. QMV in the EU means that despite Cameron's tantrum, they will out vote him leaving him with just one option left. Take the UK out of the EU. That will be great for Scotland as it means the EU is off the agenda and we can concentrate on simply nullifying the Union with England.
Ergo, sit back and do nothing and watch it all, unfold. Good news is, that given the 'Respect Agenda', Cameron might take the UK out of the EU without any reference to Salmond. Did he make the call ahead of Friday - No, nor will he ever.
#
2011-12-12 23:29
And when the dust begins to settle, who knows what Germany and France might decide to do regarding "the city of London". Interesting days ahead.
#
2011-12-12 23:34
Or put another way US,
Angela is on the table, Sar-ko-zee is under the table (as usual), the rest are bar staff except Cameron. He is doing the old trick,... when you're being run out of town, try to make it look like you are leading a parade.
Angela is on the table, Sar-ko-zee is under the table (as usual), the rest are bar staff except Cameron. He is doing the old trick,... when you're being run out of town, try to make it look like you are leading a parade.
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2011-12-12 23:00
(Slightly Off Topic)
Currently The UK has 1 seat in the European council and we elect 79 MEPs. Scotland has 7 Wales 4 and England 64. Ireland with a smaller population than Scotland has 13 MEPs. Post independence Scotland would have 14-16 (at least twice what we have now) England would gain too (I think)and we all get a seat in the council. I estimate that to be a combined total of around 90. If combine Ireland to that then that is the biggest single block in Europe, beating France and Germany.
Just a thought.
Currently The UK has 1 seat in the European council and we elect 79 MEPs. Scotland has 7 Wales 4 and England 64. Ireland with a smaller population than Scotland has 13 MEPs. Post independence Scotland would have 14-16 (at least twice what we have now) England would gain too (I think)and we all get a seat in the council. I estimate that to be a combined total of around 90. If combine Ireland to that then that is the biggest single block in Europe, beating France and Germany.
Just a thought.
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2011-12-12 23:34
Scotland, England, Wales and NI could have 4 seats in the EU Council! In the Parliament set against present standards England 70 Scotland 15 Wales 8 and NI 7 makes 100 but I think the rules for the EU parliament mean that with additional states joining the parliament does not get bigger but the existing number of seats are reallocated. So, how on earth within the EU are we more influential together. It's nonsense!
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2011-12-12 23:02
I have read the papers over the passed few days with a growing sense of irritation. It is apparent that the MSM use the words "England" and "Britain" synonymously. There is no reflective practice in the political analysis that acknowledges the impact that Camoron's actions have upon the devolved administrations .
The man's actions are those of a rich Etonian Buffoon in thrall to the City of London. it is little surprise he is supported by Boris Johnston, that in itself should be a clue to thinking people everywhere.
We must contact our Scottish MEP's to demand that they assist in enabling our steps towards independence being brought to a successful conclusion.
Camoron has no legitimate mandate to speak on behalf of Scotland. Yet still the Pravda via Pacific Quay insists that all is well....
I despair.
The man's actions are those of a rich Etonian Buffoon in thrall to the City of London. it is little surprise he is supported by Boris Johnston, that in itself should be a clue to thinking people everywhere.
We must contact our Scottish MEP's to demand that they assist in enabling our steps towards independence being brought to a successful conclusion.
Camoron has no legitimate mandate to speak on behalf of Scotland. Yet still the Pravda via Pacific Quay insists that all is well....
I despair.
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2011-12-13 00:52
The words England and Britain are the same. I'm quite comfortable with it I'm Scottish not british. Britain was the term the Romans used to describe England. Where's the issue in this?
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2011-12-13 09:47
Quoting Islegard:
Balderdash.
The words England and Britain are the same. I'm quite comfortable with it I'm Scottish not british. Britain was the term the Romans used to describe England. Where's the issue in this?
Balderdash.
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2011-12-12 23:16
Quote:
And why is this isolationist separatist position within (or actually 'without') which is claimed so great in that it pretends that London is the way forward therefore translate as a good thing in Scotland exactly?
McMillan failed to elaborate on that one completely-perhaps he thinks it should be named CBI london?
How does what matters to Cameron, the right wing of the tories and London become synonymous with what is best for the Scottish interest?
Shouldn't the person McMillan) who disses even the thought of an Independence Referendum (although too many business leaders and economists disagree totally) be justifying his claim and show how it is therefore legitimate to use CBI Scotland as a very crude platform to launch his crass rejected unionist tone on to the Scottish public?
However the Tory PM’s refusal to negotiate with the 26 other European leaders was praised by CBI Scotland director Iain McMillan who insisted that Germany and France were to blame for not being prepared to give ground.
Mr McMillan said Mr Cameron’s decision was needed in order to “defend the City of London and its position as the financial centre of Europe”.
And why is this isolationist separatist position within (or actually 'without') which is claimed so great in that it pretends that London is the way forward therefore translate as a good thing in Scotland exactly?
McMillan failed to elaborate on that one completely-perhaps he thinks it should be named CBI london?
How does what matters to Cameron, the right wing of the tories and London become synonymous with what is best for the Scottish interest?
Shouldn't the person McMillan) who disses even the thought of an Independence Referendum (although too many business leaders and economists disagree totally) be justifying his claim and show how it is therefore legitimate to use CBI Scotland as a very crude platform to launch his crass rejected unionist tone on to the Scottish public?
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2011-12-12 23:18
"Tory PM’s refusal to negotiate with the 26 other European leaders was praised by CBI Scotland director Iain McMillan who insisted that Germany and France were to blame for not being prepared to give ground.
Mr McMillan said Mr Cameron’s decision was needed in order to 'defend the City of London and its position as the financial centre of Europe'."
(my bolding.)
'Nuff said. Mr McMillan hit the nail on the head. CBI Scotland? CBI where? What's Scotland? Or ordinary people, for that matter?
I seem to vaguely remember something about a respect agenda way back 18 months ago... Hmph!
Mr McMillan said Mr Cameron’s decision was needed in order to 'defend the City of London and its position as the financial centre of Europe'."
(my bolding.)
'Nuff said. Mr McMillan hit the nail on the head. CBI Scotland? CBI where? What's Scotland? Or ordinary people, for that matter?
I seem to vaguely remember something about a respect agenda way back 18 months ago... Hmph!
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2011-12-12 23:20
"...showed Labour’s UK lead over the Tories had been wiped out following Mr Cameron’s refusal to negotiate with European leaders."
When will labour voters in Scotland finally realize the futility of their future support for Miliband - a lame-duck leader - and a party which an increasingly right-wing English electorate has chosen to reject?
Talk about a wasted vote!
When will labour voters in Scotland finally realize the futility of their future support for Miliband - a lame-duck leader - and a party which an increasingly right-wing English electorate has chosen to reject?
Talk about a wasted vote!
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2011-12-12 23:27
When thieves fall out .....
When the blind lead the blind ....
Keep your friends close, and your enimies even closer ....
I'm off to find the odds on a rapid break up of the Tory/LibDem Pact.
When the blind lead the blind ....
Keep your friends close, and your enimies even closer ....
I'm off to find the odds on a rapid break up of the Tory/LibDem Pact.
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2011-12-12 23:32
Quote:
No Alyn, the episode on the steps of the White House showed right from the start that Cameron represents no one but the British establishment.
David Cameron doesn't just represent Tory backbenchers in Europe he represents the whole of the UK
No Alyn, the episode on the steps of the White House showed right from the start that Cameron represents no one but the British establishment.
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2011-12-12 23:50
Just been looking at the comments on the Tory site, looks like the Torys by and large very anti Europe, but BritNatism is nothing new from these people.
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2011-12-13 00:03
So we have a situation where the Prime Minister cuts us adrift of the EU in order to protect the City of London Financial Systems because they account for 10% of the GDP of the UK...
So it begs the question... what accounts for the other 90% and why is it less important?
Scotland accounts for nearly 10% but we are treated with disdain in comparison.
The truth is that Scotland contributes more to the UK since the money raised in Scotland pays for more wages of ordinary people, that in turn pays for other jobs and contributes to the economy.
London on the other hand brings in a lot of cash... not as useful though as the money gets siphoned into the bank accounts of the rich, transferred out of country to tax havens and generally does not add to the common weal of the nation.
Fact is I was watching an interesting discussion from a UN body on economic development that bail outs would have had more effect if they had bailed out the people and not the banks since the people would have spent the money and generated growth. Same report also warned against imposing austerity cuts for all governments.
This was not on the MSM as far as I can see and it was only luck that I was flicking through channels and had to see it on Chinese International TV (CCTV News).
This is just another facet of the Tories protecting the rich.
So it begs the question... what accounts for the other 90% and why is it less important?
Scotland accounts for nearly 10% but we are treated with disdain in comparison.
The truth is that Scotland contributes more to the UK since the money raised in Scotland pays for more wages of ordinary people, that in turn pays for other jobs and contributes to the economy.
London on the other hand brings in a lot of cash... not as useful though as the money gets siphoned into the bank accounts of the rich, transferred out of country to tax havens and generally does not add to the common weal of the nation.
Fact is I was watching an interesting discussion from a UN body on economic development that bail outs would have had more effect if they had bailed out the people and not the banks since the people would have spent the money and generated growth. Same report also warned against imposing austerity cuts for all governments.
This was not on the MSM as far as I can see and it was only luck that I was flicking through channels and had to see it on Chinese International TV (CCTV News).
This is just another facet of the Tories protecting the rich.
#
2011-12-13 00:18
BBC Scotland's radio & TV news still in denial about this. Only line they have is how damaging it all is for Independence. They refuse to acknowledge that what these events demonstrate is Scotland is pulled from pillar to post with no control or influence in either the UK or EU. Only Independence can change that.
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2011-12-13 00:48
On the subject of CBI Scotland I'd still like to know who they represent considering they removed the link from the website. There is no evidence CBI Scotland represent any Scottish companies as they have concealed who their members are.
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2011-12-13 02:22
Check out Calum Cashley's blog and stand back in astonishment - shock horror - who does this prat McMillan think he's kidding - tinpot general for a tinpot army!
Give him the bums rush and quick!
Give him the bums rush and quick!
#
2011-12-13 00:48
This situation was always on the cards. First and foremost because David Cameron is one of the most inept politicians around.
The other reason stems in part from that and was his decision to withdraw the Tory Group in the EU Parliament from the main group and ally them with some questionable smaller parties. He was told at the time that this would reduce Britain's influence in Europe which it patently has. In some ways this act could be said to be the start of the isolation of the UK within Europe and certainly sowed the seeds of what was to follow.
During this situation with the Eurozone he should have been talking to the countries not in the Euro and building alliances but he has not done any of that in part because of his earlier alliances with smaller parties which have little influence either within Europe or within their own countries but in greater part becausde of his gbeneral ineptness when it comes to fulfilling his role as PM.
The result is that when it came to the crunch on Friday he had no support and now we will all pay for it.
The other reason stems in part from that and was his decision to withdraw the Tory Group in the EU Parliament from the main group and ally them with some questionable smaller parties. He was told at the time that this would reduce Britain's influence in Europe which it patently has. In some ways this act could be said to be the start of the isolation of the UK within Europe and certainly sowed the seeds of what was to follow.
During this situation with the Eurozone he should have been talking to the countries not in the Euro and building alliances but he has not done any of that in part because of his earlier alliances with smaller parties which have little influence either within Europe or within their own countries but in greater part becausde of his gbeneral ineptness when it comes to fulfilling his role as PM.
The result is that when it came to the crunch on Friday he had no support and now we will all pay for it.
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2011-12-13 01:01
Legerwood - I agree with the ineptitude of David Cameron but what is even more worrying is the fact that he is surrounded by advisers, commitees,cabin et colleagues, and support staff that obviously agree with his decisions or are unable to offer any other alternative - if this is government, then we are really in the shit
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2011-12-13 17:33
# roboftheburnawn
Especially when you look at the alternative although at least in Scotland we have a third option: Independence.
Especially when you look at the alternative although at least in Scotland we have a third option: Independence.
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2011-12-13 05:47
Hey guys. Wondering if yous could help me out a bit. I'm pretty clued up on my politics, read stuff every day. But I will admit even after reading lots of stuff on this veto issue i'm still a little confused.
Firstly, I understand what's going on with the veto and what the treaty proposes (more or less) and that Cameron has listened to a few backbenchers and not the wider people.. But here is a couple of questions, I can't quite answer.
1. Some sources seem to be saying that the treaty would only apply to EZ countries, but at the same time they are saying that Cameron says 'it's not in London's interest to be regulated in this way'.. Does it include UK or doesn't it!? And if so what's the difference between us and EZ countries.
2. Why are certain people, whether it be article writers, people I've talked to personally or online folk complaining about the decision whereas at the exact same time they do not believe the conditions are fair and right.. I've heard many folk say that the new EU rules are unhealthy as country's individual budgets must be checked which in turn makes the EU even more of a state.
There was an article on NNS I believe stating this kind of view recently which I found quite enlightening as I was a virgin to the proposals at the time. Now these same folk are complaining that Cameron pulled out of the treaty? From what I can interpret, it is because he refused to 'discuss' it with parliament and just went ahead and blocked it. Whereas a few others countries said they were not really in favour but would discuss it first with their respective governments first.
I can understand how this is a dick move on Cameron's part as he was doing it just to please the backbenchers and if he asked the whole parliament it may have gone the other way. But what would have happened if he did take it to parliament and the vote still went against it? Would the UK still be 'marginalised' for not agreeing? Or is it purely because Cameron flew in there kicking and screaming and not negotiating and acting like a spoiled brat?
I'm guessing I've maybe answered my own question, but if the UK government voted against it if given the chance, what would have happened then?
I just find it a little odd that I saw some poll results (on the BBC mind) last week that more than half the surveyed claimed they thought the treaty wasn't a good idea. But now more than half the population think the decision has damaged the countries economy.
Firstly, I understand what's going on with the veto and what the treaty proposes (more or less) and that Cameron has listened to a few backbenchers and not the wider people.. But here is a couple of questions, I can't quite answer.
1. Some sources seem to be saying that the treaty would only apply to EZ countries, but at the same time they are saying that Cameron says 'it's not in London's interest to be regulated in this way'.. Does it include UK or doesn't it!? And if so what's the difference between us and EZ countries.
2. Why are certain people, whether it be article writers, people I've talked to personally or online folk complaining about the decision whereas at the exact same time they do not believe the conditions are fair and right.. I've heard many folk say that the new EU rules are unhealthy as country's individual budgets must be checked which in turn makes the EU even more of a state.
There was an article on NNS I believe stating this kind of view recently which I found quite enlightening as I was a virgin to the proposals at the time. Now these same folk are complaining that Cameron pulled out of the treaty? From what I can interpret, it is because he refused to 'discuss' it with parliament and just went ahead and blocked it. Whereas a few others countries said they were not really in favour but would discuss it first with their respective governments first.
I can understand how this is a dick move on Cameron's part as he was doing it just to please the backbenchers and if he asked the whole parliament it may have gone the other way. But what would have happened if he did take it to parliament and the vote still went against it? Would the UK still be 'marginalised' for not agreeing? Or is it purely because Cameron flew in there kicking and screaming and not negotiating and acting like a spoiled brat?
I'm guessing I've maybe answered my own question, but if the UK government voted against it if given the chance, what would have happened then?
I just find it a little odd that I saw some poll results (on the BBC mind) last week that more than half the surveyed claimed they thought the treaty wasn't a good idea. But now more than half the population think the decision has damaged the countries economy.
#
2011-12-13 09:11
Hi D_A_N,
The reason that people are holding their heads in despair is not that Cameron is pulling us out of the EU (we will still be members), it is that the other 26 countries in the EU (There are 27 in total including UK) have agreed to negotiate a new treaty on greater fiscal control but Cameron has refused to even sit round the table and try to defend the UK during these negotiations.
Cameron has walked away BEFORE trying to negotiate any concessions and now that he's gone he wont be let back in.
This leaves us in the situation where we now dont have a say in how this plays out so cannot mitigate any of the more damaging aspects. We are still in the EU but are as virile as a EUnuch...
At the same time we are heavily relienat on trade with the EU, with Scotland being more so.
Basically, Scotland has gone from having a token gesture of support through the UK to having no bloody say at all!
This is another reason we need independence.
The reason that people are holding their heads in despair is not that Cameron is pulling us out of the EU (we will still be members), it is that the other 26 countries in the EU (There are 27 in total including UK) have agreed to negotiate a new treaty on greater fiscal control but Cameron has refused to even sit round the table and try to defend the UK during these negotiations.
Cameron has walked away BEFORE trying to negotiate any concessions and now that he's gone he wont be let back in.
This leaves us in the situation where we now dont have a say in how this plays out so cannot mitigate any of the more damaging aspects. We are still in the EU but are as virile as a EUnuch...
At the same time we are heavily relienat on trade with the EU, with Scotland being more so.
Basically, Scotland has gone from having a token gesture of support through the UK to having no bloody say at all!
This is another reason we need independence.
#
2011-12-13 07:53
@D-A-N the EU is a major export market for Alba in goods such as whisky and Scotch Beef to name a few, this decision was taken purely to serve the London Bankers interests and without a thought about the adverse effect it may have on Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland interests.
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2011-12-13 08:13
thanks for the reply. I do understand that. It just seems that people who are protesting this veto were the same people who protested the new EU conditions in the first place.. or have I misinterpreted it? :( - ah well. I'll do some more reading I guess. Just been very busy with work.
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2011-12-13 08:38
@ D-A-N, there are some people who believe that Alba should leave both the UK and The EU. I forgot to mention that the veto impacts much more on Alba than on England as we have important Foresty and agriculture industries which are heavily regulated by the EU and now the UK is left without a voice.
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2011-12-13 08:45
I see. Thanks for that.. well, the sooner we get out of the UK the better. The EU can be decided later, but at least we'd have a voice for a start. :) Right off tae work.
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2011-12-13 08:44
This report contain the words "...in Scotland, 39% of Scots, more than in any other UK region,...". Scotland is not a region, it is a nation.
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2011-12-13 10:44
Hold on a minute. Why should Cameron care about what voters in Scotland think? We have more pandas than Tory MPs! So claims that he is under pressure from Scotland is over egging it somewhat...
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2011-12-13 12:51
Does that mean, in Scotland, pandas carry a greater popular support?
Thus the Tories are a group Scotland no longer pandas to?
Dan - The reality is folk are waking up to what Cameroon did - for short term, internal party gain he blew the long term aim.
The EU will be able to treat the UK just like an EFTA nation in terms of forcing fiscal regulations and controls on the UK (including the City of London) while the UK is still paying for full EU membership.
Cameron has ensured that EU fiscal policy will be defined by Germany which has its own financial industry to protect where many of the Bavarian Landesbanks debt to capital ratios make RBS /Natwest look containable.
The problem with UK MSM is they are so London orientated they give us little or no idea of the real Sh!tstorm that is about to break over European Banks as the Fed runs out of cash.
A number of analysts are predicting the next crash is imminent and UK pension funds are getting out of 'funny money' and into commodities as even Government bonds are begining to look high risk.
The question is just when will the markets take fright at the financial situation in the US and EU - how long is a piece of string?
Thus the Tories are a group Scotland no longer pandas to?
Dan - The reality is folk are waking up to what Cameroon did - for short term, internal party gain he blew the long term aim.
The EU will be able to treat the UK just like an EFTA nation in terms of forcing fiscal regulations and controls on the UK (including the City of London) while the UK is still paying for full EU membership.
Cameron has ensured that EU fiscal policy will be defined by Germany which has its own financial industry to protect where many of the Bavarian Landesbanks debt to capital ratios make RBS /Natwest look containable.
The problem with UK MSM is they are so London orientated they give us little or no idea of the real Sh!tstorm that is about to break over European Banks as the Fed runs out of cash.
A number of analysts are predicting the next crash is imminent and UK pension funds are getting out of 'funny money' and into commodities as even Government bonds are begining to look high risk.
The question is just when will the markets take fright at the financial situation in the US and EU - how long is a piece of string?
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2011-12-13 12:48
I watched Camerons rhetoric yesterday and when he was asked by our Scottish representative as to why the devolved parliaments in Belfast, Edinburgh and Cardiff were not consulted he replied "This was a reserved matter". That made my blood boil. Who is this oik that is pulling the rug from under my countrymens feet?
This is NOT a reserved matter because we say it's not.
I'm ranting, I'm sorry folks - takings pills now.
Roll on the referendum. (Or UDI, I don't care).
This is NOT a reserved matter because we say it's not.
I'm ranting, I'm sorry folks - takings pills now.
Roll on the referendum. (Or UDI, I don't care).
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2011-12-13 13:10
Mr Cameron appears to have crookedly filed this matter under 'Foreign Affairs' thus 'reserved'. However, many consider the real panda in the room is the Euro and its future survival being in similar impotent straits? Just a day and a half to save the cute bears - just a wing and a prayer to save the shilpit Euro.
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2011-12-13 13:21
Both Cameron and Clegg played a 'blinder' on Europe.
They have made it certain that the UK will now break up, with Scotland becoming independent and being part of the EU, and England becoming the 51st US state.
They have made it certain that the UK will now break up, with Scotland becoming independent and being part of the EU, and England becoming the 51st US state.
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2011-12-13 13:43
Cameron has gambled with our economic recovery to protect the 'spivs and speculators' who got us into this damned mess in the first place.
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2011-12-13 13:44
Mac - I sincerely, with every fibre of my being hope you're right. Having the US next door might be better than westminster - we'll see.
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2011-12-13 13:55
BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China will withhold aid to the European Union until the region meets certain conditions, including the "conferral of market-economy status" on China, a Chinese scholar said in a commentary ...
A few weeks ago the suggestion China would buy Eurobonds came just as the head of the European bail-out fund was in Beijing. He went away empty handed. Now it's the idea of investing in UK infrastructure that comes just ahead of the UK chancellor's midweek statement on how he plans to boost growth. Good timing for maximum PR impact.
"Here comes China once again, riding to the rescue of a struggling European nation, delving into its bulging wallet to help out. That at least is what we are encouraged to believe from today's talk of China investing in UK infrastructure. But it's not quite so simple." (Damien Grammaticus BBC)
bbc.co.uk/.../...
This suggests that Cameron and Osbourne's flounce out of the EU could be based on the shoogly peg of China coughing up for Osbourne's £60 billion infra - structure 'blow out' having said 'No' to the EU.
Given the ease China blows 'hot and cold' on overseas investment a bit of a high risk strategy.
A few weeks ago the suggestion China would buy Eurobonds came just as the head of the European bail-out fund was in Beijing. He went away empty handed. Now it's the idea of investing in UK infrastructure that comes just ahead of the UK chancellor's midweek statement on how he plans to boost growth. Good timing for maximum PR impact.
"Here comes China once again, riding to the rescue of a struggling European nation, delving into its bulging wallet to help out. That at least is what we are encouraged to believe from today's talk of China investing in UK infrastructure. But it's not quite so simple." (Damien Grammaticus BBC)
bbc.co.uk/.../...
This suggests that Cameron and Osbourne's flounce out of the EU could be based on the shoogly peg of China coughing up for Osbourne's £60 billion infra - structure 'blow out' having said 'No' to the EU.
Given the ease China blows 'hot and cold' on overseas investment a bit of a high risk strategy.
#
2011-12-13 14:03
By some accounts (Golem for one) China has its own economic troubles brewing, they're just a year or two behind everyone else.
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2011-12-13 15:32
As some-one said on another board: The UK is 94,060 square miles - Cameron's only concern was in protecting one of them.
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2011-12-13 17:57
THE TRICKLE DOWN EFFECT.
Anyone recall the amount of times, prior to the financial meltdown, we heard the boast of the UK being the worlds fourth largest economy?
On Newsnight(Mon) a conservative MP let slip the UK is now the sixth or seventh largest world economy.
Doesn't look as though this concentration on the square mile is working does it?
Anyone recall the amount of times, prior to the financial meltdown, we heard the boast of the UK being the worlds fourth largest economy?
On Newsnight(Mon) a conservative MP let slip the UK is now the sixth or seventh largest world economy.
Doesn't look as though this concentration on the square mile is working does it?
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2011-12-14 20:15
It is clear to one and all that Cameron wasted his veto trying to protect his "old-boys network" pals in the city of London and to hell with the rest of the UK. It was wasted as he has probably failed to protect the jewel in the English Crown (the City of London) and merely alienated the rest of the EU.
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