By a Newsnet reporter

The rebel Glasgow Labour councillors who voted against the party's budget last week have announced plans to form a new political party which will field candidates against official Labour candidates in the local elections in May. 

The new party plans that at least one candidate will stand under its banner in each of the city's 21 council electoral wards, and hopes that they will attract support from traditional Labour voters who are disaffected with the party's ruling group in the city.

Rebel councillor Tommy Morrison said that an application had been made to the Electoral Commission to register a new party, provisionally titled Glasgow Labour.  The new party believes it would do well to return 3 or 4 councillors, but this could be enough to hold the balance of power between Labour and the SNP.

Councillors Tommy Morrison, Stephen Dornan and Anne Marie Millar resigned from Labour before the vote on Thursday and were joined the following day by Andy Muir, William O'Rourke and Ruth Black.   

Mr Morrison told the Sunday Herald: "I'd like to see this new party give the citizens of Glasgow a wider choice in this election.  I believe it will contest 21 wards in the city. I think there will be 23 candidates, many standing on the banner of re-election.

"We are campaigning against £24 million in cuts.  That's what Glasgow Labour wants to tackle.

"We'll be called all sorts of things by Labour.  They will try everything under the sun to stop us.  But our party will be made in Glasgow, by the people of Glasgow, for the people of Glasgow."

However there remain issues to be settled with the Electoral Commission about the new party's name.  Mr Morrison said: "We have to wait for the approval of the Electoral Commission, which has one or two issues with the application.  Their difficulty is the word Labour.  The commission's view is that anyone else using that word could confuse voters.  I think voters are far cleverer than that."

The move is likely to split the Labour vote at a time when the party is already haemorrhaging support to the SNP, and will further reduce the party's chances of clinging on to majority rule in the city.  Labour is currently returning its lowest polling figures in modern times, with only 23% of Scots saying they intended to vote for the party in the most recent poll of Holyrood voting intentions.  Gaining control of Glasgow is the SNP's main target in May's election.  

Glasgow has traditionally been viewed as a guaranteed power base for Labour in Scotland.  The city has been under a Labour administration for the past 31 years.  Loss of Glasgow Council would be a huge blow to the morale of the party and would seriously damage the authority and credibility of new leader Johann Lamont.   As an MSP for Glasgow Pollock, Ms Lamont is closely associated with the Glasgow Labour party.  Four of the six rebel councillors represent wards in her constituency.  Ms Lamont's husband, Archie Graham, is Deputy Leader of the Labour run council.

Comments  

 
# Keef 2012-02-13 08:31
If the commission has an issue with the name just change it!

Mind you I think most people in Scotland have an issue with the name "Labour". the mere mention of it is starting to give me the boke!
 
 
# Sleekit 2012-02-13 08:42
If I were trying to set up a new party I dont think I would call it "Glasgow Labour" given the connotations of corruption and incompetence that it now conveys.

Perhaps they should rename themselves...

Glasgow Unionist Nepotism Greed and Ermine Party or G.U.N.G.E for short.
 
 
# Ready to Start 2012-02-13 08:46
As letter in Herald this morning points out Electoral Commission is objecting to the use of Glasgow Labour but allows Scottish Labour when no such party is registered and does not public details of its membership or finances.

And some want Electoral Commission in London to run the referendum.
 
 
# Keef 2012-02-13 08:52
What about "Separatist Labour" any other non-unionst party would of course use "Independent Labour".

Good luck to them. At least they had the gumption to do something about the deep rooted corruption of current mob.
 
 
# J Wil 2012-02-13 09:40
How about Party Against the People. (PAP)?
 
 
# rhymer 2012-02-13 12:39
Quoting J Wil:
How about Party Against the People. (PAP)?


Why not The Deadwood Party.
 
 
# Wave Machine 2012-02-13 08:54
While I accept that some of these rebel councillors are tainted with various tones of mud, I'd be interested to understand what the individuals think in terms of the constitution.
It's all very well defining a party as "Glasgow" centric, but they have to position themselves in a wider context.

On a positive note, wouldn't it be a good thing if this was a foundation for some forward, progressive thinking leftist party that had Scotland's best interests at heart?

I won't hold my breath.
 
 
# Bambi 2012-02-13 09:34
Quoting Wave Machine:
On a positive note, wouldn't it be a good thing if this was a foundation for some forward, progressive thinking leftist party that had Scotland's best interests at heart?




Well, the SNP aren't perfect, but...
 
 
# RJBH 2012-02-13 08:57
One presumes ... this was not in the great London plan for Glasgow .. I rejoice
 
 
# clootie 2012-02-13 09:03
Given the original principals neither party should be using the term Labour.
 
 
# .Scot 2012-02-13 09:07
The Future vision of the Scottish? Labour Party. First, corruption being exposed, then internal threats and bullying, then fracture, then rebranding and then more argument over the re-relaunch. As an ex-Labour activist from the west of Scotland, we always voted against Trident, nuclear power plants and always voted for self-determination. London Labour never listened than and they never will. Renaming, fracturing, bullying, abuses and petty arguing will not raise the rotting corpse of the Labour Party. The people's Party? Never again in Scotland. RIP Labour. RIP UK.
 
 
# Louperdowg 2012-02-13 09:09
So they want traditional Labour voters to vote for Labour's rejects?

That'll work.
 
 
# clootie 2012-02-13 09:21
nicely put - that sums it up!!
 
 
# Jim Johnston 2012-02-13 10:11
The chance would be a fine thing to get Glasgows Labour councillors working at anything Louperdowg. Haha
 
 
# Welsh Sion 2012-02-13 09:23
O/t i) 27-13...

O/t ii} Am going to register for the Spring Conference. Hope to see you there - you'll recognise me from the flag I'm wearing...

O/t iii) crossed-flag-pins.com/.../...
 
 
# Aucheorn 2012-02-13 09:51
i) Well done

ii) I'll see you then.

iii) Interesting.
 
 
# gt-cri 2012-02-13 10:32
Welsh Sion,

That's a cracking Pin badge- have you placed an order & for how many? The prices for one-offs look prohibitive...would a group-buy be popular here?

I'd have two!
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 10:52
I'd certainly take one or two if we organised a bulk purchase. I regard myself as half-Welsh, having grown up in West Wales.
 
 
# Diabloandco 2012-02-13 11:23
I'd buy a few of them!
Always thought you lot had the best flag!
 
 
# Welsh Sion 2012-02-13 12:13
Thanks for your comments - I intend to buy one for myself, definitely before Conference. In the meantime, it serves as my identifier on facebook and sometimes as my screensaver here, interchangably with Wales/India (don't ask today).

Additionally, I am alleged (i.e. 'not proven') to have been descended from Scots emigres post Culloden... Welsh Sion is not as purely Welsh as some of you might think!)

As for bulk buying, I don't know how this can be done logistically - maybe something the mods of NNS can come up with.

Please note therefore that my selection is essentially a private affair - I do NOT have any business interests in the company that sells them. Ergo, I am not a member of the Labour Party...
 
 
# Angus 2012-02-13 09:26
Quoting Louperdowg:
So they want traditional Labour voters to vote for Labour's rejects?

That'll work.

I m no sure if they are the Labour rejects, maybe its the Labour party that is the reject. Labour is rife with bullying and corruption, so maybe it is the honest ones who are leaving? I m not from Glasgow and dont know much about the Labour party there, so I m taking a guess
 
 
# Louperdowg 2012-02-13 12:16
You may well be right Angus.

Just think; only a handful of Labour councillors can be deemed honest.

The best bit is that London Labour thought that they were deadwood and not worth keeping.

It tells you everything that you need to know about the Labour Party.
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 09:27
Good to hear Cllr Morrison on Good Morning Scotland at 0750, if you didn't hear it. Talked about London Labour influence, that J Lamont has said nothing for 4 days, culture of bullying and of course the plans for the new party. May be worth updating the article with the fresh quotes.
 
 
# .Scot 2012-02-13 09:43
Quoting Albalha:
Good to hear Cllr Morrison on Good Morning Scotland at 0750, if you didn't hear it. Talked about London Labour influence, that J Lamont has said nothing for 4 days, culture of bullying and of course the plans for the new party. May be worth updating the article with the fresh quotes.



Sadly the BBC only played that on your Micro-region. Here in Galloway, we were treated to the posh Tory tones of former Presiding Officer of Holyrood LibDem Alex fergusson MSP, warbling on about blocking a proposed supermarket and Fuel station in Newton Stewart. Whilst hoping it is not TESCO, I suggest that the competition is urgently required. I have little opinion on the low paid high pressure jobs which can only be regulated through Scottish independence.
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 09:49
Ah of course played in the opt out but at least it will be available on the iplayer soon after the end of GMS. On a broader point I wonder if people actually want these opt outs, not sure I see the point when if the stories are good enough why not play them to a Scotland wide audience.
 
 
# Angus 2012-02-13 09:29
Quoting .Scot:
The Future vision of the Scottish? Labour Party. First, corruption being exposed, then internal threats and bullying, then fracture, then rebranding and then more argument over the re-relaunch. As an ex-Labour activist from the west of Scotland, we always voted against Trident, nuclear power plants and always voted for self-determination. London Labour never listened than and they never will. Renaming, fracturing, bullying, abuses and petty arguing will not raise the rotting corpse of the Labour Party. The people's Party? Never again in Scotland. RIP Labour. RIP UK.

.scot. Intersting to hear that from yourself, who has come from within the party. It kind of explains the whole rotten structure. So this is why Labour has become the Labservative and unionist party?
 
 
# .Scot 2012-02-13 10:16
Quoting Angus:
.scot. Intersting to hear that from yourself, who has come from within the party. It kind of explains the whole rotten structure. So this is why Labour has become the Labservative and unionist party?


Labour in the west are bourne out of the large nationalised employers, heavy industries and mining communities where a certain "strong" personality was once required but with the end of closed-shop and closures of the ship-yards, the Labour party began to control the Trades unions in contradiction to the original purpose. THAT loss of Union control allowed Margaret Thatcher to create Tony Blair's vile New Labour Party.

There still has been no transfer of power-change of government or policies in London since Jim Callaghan's impure government refused the help of Enoch Powell (no less?) to save them from collapse in Westminster.
 
 
# Angus 2012-02-13 09:37
Quoting clootie:
Given the original principals neither party should be using the term Labour.

That depends on the terms of the UN charter, and we could find that the Glasgow Labour party are not allowed to use the pound, will pay for the refurbishment of the new seats in the hall (1/2 million in Euros), they will be deemed too wee, too stupid and unable to fend for themselves, will not be allowed to take part in any of the big debates or budgets, will get their windaes panned in every other weekend.
 
 
# Blanco 2012-02-13 09:48
The concern for the SNP will be if these people mop up the dissatisfied with Labour vote. Under multi member wards I am sure they will pick up at least a couple of seats that might otherwisehave gone to the SNP.

The nightmare for Labour is that this new party will wash all Labours dirty linen in public, and who will vote for Labour then?
 
 
# weegie38 2012-02-13 11:25
Quoting Blanco:
The concern for the SNP will be if these people mop up the dissatisfied with Labour vote. Under multi member wards I am sure they will pick up at least a couple of seats that might otherwisehave gone to the SNP.

Exactly. And if the gap between Labour and the SNP is narrow after the election, who would bet against the councillors of this party hopping back into bed with Labour, as soon as appropriate baubles were offered to them ?
Ruth Black went from being an elected Solidarity candidate to being Purcell's best pal. Colin Deans went from the SNP to Labour. On Glasgow council, it's not hard to buy someone.
 
 
# Blanco 2012-02-13 15:21
I wouldn't be too worried about that. Provided they do what they need to do, which is going round Glasgow telling everybody about how corrupt and out of touch Labour are, then Labour have more to lose than the SNP from this new party. (obviously it will help if the media reports this new party's attacks on Labour). 
 
 
# Louperdowg 2012-02-13 09:49
"We are campaigning against £24 million in cuts. That's what Glasgow Labour wants to tackle".

Idea #1: Don't pay £500,000 for colour coordinated chairs.

Idea #2: Don't pay £15,000 for portraits.
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-13 15:50
Quoting Louperdowg:
"We are campaigning against £24 million in cuts. That's what Glasgow Labour wants to tackle".

Idea #1: Don't pay £500,000 for colour coordinated chairs.

Idea #2: Don't pay £15,000 for portraits.



Idea #3:A bit less of this type of thing...

dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# J Wil 2012-02-13 09:51
Very appropriate! The Scotsman has an advert for Toshiba laptops right at the top of the page, but the name is partly obscured for some reason, so that it reads TOSH.
 
 
# dogbite 2012-02-13 10:08
o/t Kirsty Wark standing in for Kayeeee ths morning if further proof were needed that London rules at Pacific Quay
 
 
# Jester 2012-02-13 10:33
Quoting dogbite:
o/t Kirsty Wark standing in for Kayeeee ths morning if further proof were needed that London rules at Pacific Quay


Is Kayeee alright? She hasn't been involved in a suspicious accident has she?
 
 
# Mac 2012-02-13 11:00
I believe she got panned for her Friday show on windmills when everything was kicking off in Glasgow City Council chambers. In pursuing an another political attack on Alex Salmond thru false association with Donald Trump the show's producers simply got it all wrong. Trump has little news traction whilst the melt down of Labour in Glasgow and the potential loss to the SNP in the forthcoming local elections has everybody's attention. I would imagine there were 'heightened tensions' in Pacific Quay after this broadcast.
 
 
# CapnAndy 2012-02-13 11:40
She's standing in for Gabby Logan on the Wright Stuff.
Nice work if you can get it, being able to pick and choose what work you do.
 
 
# chiefy1724 2012-02-13 16:40
Hmm. General backchat on WWJ this morning suggested that Kay with an E was off "because it was half term" rather than because she was choosing to go back on the telly.

What is the "real" reason - time off with the kids or getting her mug back on "the national" screen again in the hope that some kind broadcaster will rescue her from purgatorial posterior parking on the backwater that is Radio Northern Britain ?
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 16:56
Interesting point. I can't think of any London based freelance BBC broadcaster that would have a contract that allows them to take time out from their main BBC job to appear on a rival broadcaster around the same time of their BBC commitment. Would be like Naughtie taking tme out from the Today programme to host whatever ITV does of a morning, yet more evidence that there's no real commitment to the audience in Scotland, if there was the same basic standards would apply. And this is not the first time she's appeared on the Wright programme at the same time someone else is presenting the eponymous programme, the irony, the irony.
 
 
# Mac 2012-02-13 10:38
If this is BBC London's answer to stem the nationalist tide and reduce "heightened tensions" in Scotland well they are in for a rude surprise. The truth is that Kirsty's star has fallen in both London and Scotland. Nowadays she commands little respect north and south of the border.
 
 
# X_Sticks 2012-02-13 10:57
That'll be the Kirsty Wark, best friend of Jack McConnell, ex Labour (northern british branch) leader, now Baron McConnell of Glenscorrodale?

That'll be the totally unbiased Kirsty Wark who in no way supports Labour or the Union.

Aye, that improves my view of the impartiality of the BBC.

Aye, right!
 
 
# Angus 2012-02-13 11:56
Quoting X_Sticks:
That'll be the Kirsty Wark, best friend of Jack McConnell, ex Labour (northern british branch) leader, now Baron McConnell of Glenscorrodale?

That'll be the totally unbiased Kirsty Wark who in no way supports Labour or the Union.

Aye, that improves my view of the impartiality of the BBC.

Aye, right!

Aye, Kirsty is seen a pretty able political presenter, but she is no more able than the rest of them, but has the Paxman type arrogance and bullying nature. Reckon the media are moving the big guns into to fight Independence
 
 
# FREEDOM1 2012-02-13 12:18
After Independence kirsy will not be required north or south of the border. She is already downsizing having to come to her second country to get work. One of the Parcel. Soon hedgehog heid will be scraping the barrel for work also.
 
 
# Islegard 2012-02-13 10:22
New Labour, Old Labour, Any old Labour as long as its Labour.

Is this the latest plan to keep control of GCC to keep them all from going to prison and keep the brown envelopes coming? Confuse the voter into keeping Labour with a different name.
 
 
# Exile 2012-02-13 11:32
But you might be on to something there, Islegard. They could definitely be so devious, but I think it might be intellectually beyond them to hatch such a scheme.

[Comment edited by NNS Mod Team]
 
 
# Mac 2012-02-13 10:32
We have the British Labour party and the Glasgow Labour party with Scottish Labour playing piggy in the middle.

Johann Lamont is in the worst position possible. In effect her constituency party has rebelled over London interference and bullying from Glasgow council's leadership and it is plain she is not in control of events.

If Labour lose Glasgow then there is no way back for the party in Scotland, no matter what tag you put on the party.
 
 
# gopher3 2012-02-13 11:11
Should that not read,"when Labour lose Glasgow"???
 
 
# Islegard 2012-02-13 11:49
I'd like it to but voters.....
 
 
# Roll_On_2011 2012-02-13 11:00
I cannot see a problem using the word ‘Labour’. After all the SLP have:

www.socialist-labour-party.org.uk/.../
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 11:03
I can see a problem with "Glasgow Labour", because the existing Glasgow Labour party have a prior claim to the name. They could probably use "Independent Labour for Glasgow" or something similar.
 
 
# Mac 2012-02-13 11:28
If the British Labour party can use "Scottish Labour" on the ballot, when there is no such thing as Scottish Labour, it doesn't exist; then "Glasgow Labour" as opposed to the Glasgow Labour party (or variation of) seems entirely appropiate.
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 12:03
It's entirely appropriate for the existing Glasgow Labour candidates, certainly. Candidates who don't want to represent what Labour has become should think of a new name. 'Old Labour', perhaps. Or 'Labour Classic'. Or 'Scottish National Labour'.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-02-13 12:09
I believe 'Scottish Labour' is not registered as a party name?

Johann's lot could use 'Labour (North Britain)'.
 
 
# Mac 2012-02-13 12:36
That is correct "Scottish Labour" is not a registered name or party. It is an allowable ballot description. If the British Labour Party (it's offical title) is allowed to put "Scottish Labour" on the ballot; then the Glasgow Labour party or the Labour party of Glasgow, etc, can argue that "Glasgow Labour" is an appropiate ballot description.
 
 
# amfraeembro 2012-02-13 14:57
How about "Labour Parcel"?
 
 
# oldnat 2012-02-13 15:26
The Electoral Commission's wording is "may add the word Scottish to the party name at the beginning of the party name or after the word 'The' if that is the first word of the party name"

So we could have "The Scottish Scottish National Party", or "The Scottish Scottish Green Party", or "The Scottish Scottish Socialist Party"!
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-02-13 18:06
Sounds a bit like Spam!Spam!Spam! Spam!Spam!
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-13 15:53
Quoting Jiggsbro:
I can see a problem with "Glasgow Labour", because the existing Glasgow Labour party have a prior claim to the name. They could probably use "Independent Labour for Glasgow" or something similar.



Would that not have to be 'seperatist labour' for glasgow?
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-02-13 11:02
While I don't want to labour the point, I think they may be labouring under the misaprehension that a Labour by any other name would smell so sour as NuLabour or new Old labour or new nulabour.
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-13 11:25
What seems strange to my way of thinking is if these people are so disgusted with the shenanigings of labour why on earth would they even want to have a connection to the name Why do they not have the courage of their convictions (that could be taken two ways) and stand on their own feet Show the people of Glasgow you will be different and that starts with the name If they were looking for my vote and I felt as they say they do the word labour would be a turn off from the word go
 
 
# dogbite 2012-02-13 11:47
Old habits die hard mato21 I mean they are probably still thinking 'stick a red rosette on the donkeys arse and we will get the votes oh and mention we are still anti Thatcher'.
I hope they all wither on the vine and retire respectfully as they have no place in the modern Scotland which is looking forward not backwards
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-13 11:56
Well that being the case lets hope the thought process of the people of Glasgow has moved on

Still no word from call me a mammy I take it
 
 
# dogbite 2012-02-13 15:24
Not a cheap from the LEADER
 
 
# rhymer 2012-02-13 19:59
Quoting dogbite:
Old habits die hard mato21 I mean they are probably still thinking 'stick a red rosette on the donkeys arse and we will get the votes oh and mention we are still anti Thatcher'.
I hope they all wither on the vine and retire respectfully as they have no place in the modern Scotland which is looking forward not backwards


By coincidence I had somebody bang on the door and give me a "leaflet" from Rutherglen's dynamic duo - McAvoy & McKenna.
They wanted to know what I thought were the most important issues in my area. My neighbour commented sarcastically that there must be an election coming up as somebody from the labour party was out during the daytime - and she is a labour supporter.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-02-13 11:35
Their only logical way out is for them to declare themselves independentist. How otherwise could they justify casting off London and remaining a unionist party? But then that would be logical ...
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 12:06
They could call themselves 'End London Rule For Us But Not You Labour'.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-02-13 12:16
Deadly logic indeed, Jiggsbro, sounds about their level ...
 
 
# Arraniki 2012-02-13 12:18
Pace Dogbite

The 'Donkey's Arse' party.

Like the sound of that.

Used to get barrowloads of votes!
 
 
# Marga B 2012-02-13 12:31
What chance their new name will include "socialist"? I'm not betting on it, needless to say.
 
 
# dogbite 2012-02-13 15:25
Arraniki my friend that is quite awful but I like it
 
 
# edinburgh quine 2012-02-13 12:33
Does anyone know the backgrounds of those that are trying to form the new party? It's just that they seemed content with the bullying prior to this.
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-13 12:49
ed quine

That was the point I was making above Why would they want to be associated with the name labour if they were trying to distance themselves from the unsavoury behaviour I cannot understand that Seems to me to be another branch of the same old tree
 
 
# Marga B 2012-02-13 12:42
Labourhame appears to be off-line at the moment. ;))
 
 
# X_Sticks 2012-02-13 12:50
The lights are on but no-one seems to be "hame".

I wonder if they are out celebrating?
 
 
# Alba4Eva 2012-02-13 12:44
The Peoples Front Of Judea....

Nah 'SPLITTERS!'... The Judean peoples front.

...certainly not the Popular Peoples Front!

*;o)
 
 
# Marga B 2012-02-13 12:47
Have folks seen the Herald:

heraldscotland.com/.../...

Labour councillor wants enquiry into threats.

"Former party loyalist Anne Marie Millar last night told The Herald that despite repeated claims by Labour that the allegations would be fully investigated, no-one has been in contact four days after the incident."

Johann surely can't let this go on.
 
 
# Mac 2012-02-13 13:06
Well since Johann Lamont is the self-claimed champion of equality, the family and disadvantaged children then it would be politically disasterous to be labelled a hypocrite if she ignored such bullying and discrimination to go on under her own nose. If she can't stand up for a former female colleague and her disabled son then she obviously can't stand up for Scotland.
 
 
# hiorta 2012-02-13 13:02
Shouldn't these back-door councillors resign and stand in the resulting bye elections, allowing their beloved electors their democratic right to choose their political representatives ?

This is just swan song politics from the rump of an utterly discredited former political Party.
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 13:31
Realistically, it's too close to May to run bye-elections. As long as they continue to represent their constituents - and I'm guessing it was a desire to do so that led to their deselection - then I'm happy for them to stay for three months.
 
 
# rob4i 2012-02-13 13:16
I, as an SNP supporter would like to congratulate the six individuals who resigned from the Labour party and showed the courage of their convictions, a trait that Scots admire!
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 13:28
I'll hold off congratulating them until I find out whether they're prepared to prop up a minority Labour administration after May.
 
 
# Alba4Eva 2012-02-13 13:42
That is the reality here... they will be liable to return to form as soon as the election is over.
 
 
# Islegard 2012-02-13 13:29
O/T I see the latest scare story of the last couple of days has been all Scotlands ship building yards will close post independence because the navy wont award contracts to Scotland! What navy? I think the Scottish Navy in whatever form will! We are rather good at setting up navies considering it was Scots who created and set up the Russian and US navies.

These stories are utterly ridiculous I've never heard of an independent country with a coast that doesn't have shipbuilding capabilities. Apart from the fact we have established England is going to be economically poorer than Scotland. We would be in a better position than England to pay for ships. Also we would be better placed to be more competitive in securing foreign contracts. The English companies would be struggling to have the same level of competitiveness . Who is going to win European contracts? Eurosceptic xenophobic England or Euro friendly Scotland?
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-13 13:37
Isleg

This should dispel those scare stories then


"THE two BAE Systems shipyards in Scotland will survive despite fears over independence, a leading expert has claimed."

dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...

"The SNP say Govan and Scotstoun would still get Navy and other contracts, thanks to the quality of their work.
es then"

[Edited on grounds of copyright - NNS Mod Team]
 
 
# Islegard 2012-02-13 13:41
Good stuff Mato! We need to counter this guff evertime they open their lying faces.
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-13 13:59
Isleg

It's interesteing is it not that instead of our yards not getting work if the scenario above was played out Scotland alone would have the yards capable of carrying out the work that according to the Murph and others we would not get Where then will they give the work to Spain Germany maybe even China

Them that laugh last laughs longest as the saying goes
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-02-13 17:17
It is plain they just don't understand the implications of the end of the Treaty of Union. They obviously still think that England took over Scotland instead of joining them in a union.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-02-13 13:59
Can you tell us the source for that, please?
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-13 14:25
oldnat

I picked it up from a tweet from Shona Robison 2hours ago



shonarobisonSho na Robison





Defence analyst Howard Wheeldon, snr strategist City firm BGC Partners says good future for Clyde shipyards post #indyref @Daily_Record
 
 
# Mac 2012-02-13 13:58
I know that in the US President Obama has set up an AttackWatch site that collects all the personal smears aimed at him and fears aimed at the Democrats and offers a rebuttal on every false claim. It has been quite successful in exposing the Murdoch media and right-wing shock jocks to the point that some of the people involved have been sacked, or punished for slander.

The SNP should set up a similar AttachWatch site for the coming referendum to deal with personal attacks on the First Minister, the SNP, Scotland and the Scots themselves by their opponents in politics and the media.

Perhaps a submission to the Levenson Inquiry is also appropiate. There is fine line to be drawn between the the normal political rough-and-tumble as reported in the media and media sponsored poltical slander.

We have a situation where news is being deliberately combined with comment plus prejudice plus smear plus falsehoods.

News + comment + prejudice + smear + lies = slander.

That equation is being equally applied by unionist politicians and the unionist media to Alex Salmond, the SNP, Scotland and the Scots.
 
 
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-02-13 14:37
Under Scots Law there is only defamation.

A case for defamation must be made by the appelant and submitted along with a financial bond to cover the estimated costs of the case.

Then the appelant has to prove beyond reasonable doubt the actions of the defendant have caused serious damage to the appelant's character and reputation.

In a nutshell this is why very few defamation cases make it to the courts in Scotland and under current international agreements all cases the actions have to be raised first in the country of origin of the 'defamatory words or pronouncement' before any secondary action can be taken in the appellant's own home jurisdiction.
 
 
# dogbite 2012-02-13 15:33
I think we should all collect data and put it into a database somewhere with times, dates and where they came from. Then combat these lies at once.
 
 
# rhymer 2012-02-13 20:04
Quoting dogbite:
I think we should all collect data and put it into a database somewhere with times, dates and where they came from. Then combat these lies at once.


How about a regular press conference to dispose of each week's lies and propaganda ?
 
 
# Signal Rock 2012-02-13 23:43
Something like this definitely needs to be done - there is so much at stake!
 
 
# J Wil 2012-02-13 14:55
The MOD have been so bad at organizing and monitoring their contracts that they have run out of money (the labour government can be blamed for most of that). The MOD announced not so long ago that they would go for the cheapest options in procurement, which seems to me an intention to place orders overseas in many cases.

Every time there has been a shipbuilding order placed in Scotland it's as though they are doing Scotland a favour by keeping the work within the country. It's a type of political blackmail which we need to get rid of as soon as...
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-02-13 17:13
They have not yet got their heads round the fact that there will be no United Kingdom Parliament post Treaty of Union breakup. That includes no UK armed forces, civil service, diplomatic service. et al.
 
 
# From The Suburbs 2012-02-13 18:31
OldQuoting Auld Bob:
They have not yet got their heads round the fact that there will be no United Kingdom Parliament post Treaty of Union breakup. That includes no UK armed forces, civil service, diplomatic service. et al.


On BBC "Scotland" Fred MacAuley show this morning was a lot of talk about nominations for New Elizabeans when this the first Elizabean era in Scottish history.
 
 
# alasdairmac 2012-02-13 13:32
Johann Lament is waiting for someone down south to tell her what to do. If you think otherwise you're wrong: the woman is not capable of independent thought which is why (a) the unions voted her into office, and (b) the electorate have already seen through her.
 
 
# Islegard 2012-02-13 13:34
Perhaps everytime these ridiculous scare stories surface Newsnet Scotland can do a piece on the truth of these matters with commenting. That way everytime a scare story arises. We have a source for the truth with information.
 
 
# sneckedagain 2012-02-13 13:41
The Labour Party in Glasgow has reached the Deadwood stage - very appropriate for bunch of cowboys.
(with Gordon Mathieson playing the part of Calamity Jane)
 
 
# Fungus 2012-02-13 13:48
Has she apologised for the fabricated rape case? No she is ignoring it in the hope that it will go away.

Has she condemned the councillor who stated that a 9 yr old was raped because she was probably asking for it, then go on to rant about the age of consent being far too high? No she is ignoring it in the hope it will go away.

Will she spearhead an inquiry into Glasgow Council? No she ignoring the problem in the hope that it will go away.

I would not think of suggesting that she is scared of what will crawl out when stones are turned, her husband being Vice Chair and all. No I get the impression that Ms Lamont is peculiarly inept and just doesn't have a clue what to do. Look at this weeks FMQs when she seemed totally unable to assimilate the simple fact that no Scottish firms were given steel fabrication contracts for the replacement crossing purely because there are no firms in Scotland fabricating steel. She just keeps on reading what is in front of her.
However her peculiar ineptness may well be the reason why she is in the position she is. Easier for Mr Balls to pull the strings when the puppet is limp.
 
 
# dogbite 2012-02-13 15:34
Is the fabricated rape case on youtube?
 
 
# Fungus 2012-02-13 16:03
www.youtube.com/.../

It wasn't so much fabricated as based on the actual rape of a young woman from Ayrshire, 17 yrs old. She had such a terrible ordeal at the hands of the defence, including having to hold up her underwear for all to see, that she went home and took her own life. That happened in 2002. To rehash that into spin for Lamont is the lowest of the low. How must that girl's family feel?
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-02-13 17:34
Ken MacIntosh was spouting the same rubbish. Are these people really so ill informed? Are they, perhaps, just spouting anything knowing the BBC and MSM will bury their mistakes?
 
 
# .Scot 2012-02-13 23:19
Quoting Fungus:
She just keeps on reading what is in front of her.
However her peculiar ineptness may well be the reason why she is in the position she is. Easier for Mr Balls to pull the strings when the puppet is limp.


And the BBC keep insisting "the New Labour leader is hitting the target, scoring points and getting her act together at each FMQ's, supported by daft tweets backing up their weird truth-conflicting position?

The BBC appear to have ended their "BIG TV DEBATE" in favour of Brian's blether on Friday radio which are more audience selective and controlled questions lest we see a repeat of the debacle where Lamont and the British Law Lord claimed Scotland would be treated like KOSOVO by the remainder of the Britain and have gunship guarded trade embargoes placed around our shores. Their fellow Ulster Unionist and BBC employee Lesley Riddoch pointed out how ridiculous they were making the Unionist argument look in the eyes of the public. 3 Unionists against demure Nicola Sturgeon and yet Sturgeon still kept her dignity and won the debate.
 
 
# daveniz 2012-02-13 13:53
technically the SNP should now be the controlling party in GCC after the last council elections which labour were very lucky to be in power its because the SNP didn't field enough candidates that labour won by default this time the SNP are going to make sure there is enough candidates and I'm sure that's why labour have been imploding recently knowing they won't be in power by default again!
 
 
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-02-13 14:23
A quick skyte through the names gives the picture they have all been hoofed out of some nice little earners on ALEO or SPT / Strathclyde Police Authority type jobs.

I understand their move as being more about them taking revenge on Murphy, Alexander, Matheson and if they can take a few of Murphy's placemen and women in Glasgow with them (including Ms Lamont) - so much the better.

My main concern is just who is funding this 'new party' given the alleged links made in the Sunday Times and the Herald on Sunday between a number of Glasgow Labour Councillors and Glasgow's Organised Crime families - especially around the provision of hire cars, vans and the use of a particular taxi firm.

I find it difficult to see these characters putting their hands in their own pockets to fund this and suggest they would not have gone ahead with out a financial backer, maybe one of the smaller Unions have jumped ship from New Labour on the QT.

Anything that brings up the longstanding divisions in what is left of Labour's Scottish Region has to be good for the independence argument and the SNP but the stench of vested interest lies heavy on my nose.
 
 
# D_A_N 2012-02-13 15:49
Their new name should be, wait for it...


Council Rebel Alliance Party
(C.R.A.P. for those who are a bit slow today)


I'm here all week
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 16:48
O/T Rangers lodge papers at the Court of Session of their intention to go into administration.
 
 
# D_A_N 2012-02-13 17:01
can't help but laugh.. sorry if this offends anyone
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 17:07
Certainly doesn't offend me, the writing has been on the wall for a long time and Scottish football could do with a shake up, then I am not a supporter of either old firm side.
 
 
# chiefy1724 2012-02-13 17:16
For those of us of a certain age, I couldn't resist re-posting this one from The North Briton on the subject of Jim Leishman being selected as a Labour candidate in Dunfermline Central

"Crikey.................it won't be long before Labour are putting Glen Michael's wee mate Paladin up for a seat somewhere".
 
 
# hektorsmum 2012-02-13 19:45
Just rejoined the SNP today, as I am in Dunfermline it will be a pleasure to assist in whatever capacity I can to defeat Mr Leishman's ambitions.
 
 
# the wallace 2012-02-13 17:31
Why dont they call it, the jumping from a sinking liebour ship party?
 
 
# EdinScot 2012-02-13 17:47
Sorry to be so cynical but i just wouldnt trust this attempted breakaway of the former Labour councillors. I just wonder if its a ploy for Labour and themselves to hold onto power in Glasgow whether it be a joint coalition or seen to be propping up a minority Labour administration, allowing the gravy train to go on for all of them. It just seems a tad desperate and policies thought of on the hoof, cobbled together in an attempt to save their own skins.

Years of living in Scotland watching our Unionist media and political parties and their dirty tricks has given me the necessary grounding in mistrust. As for Lamont, Salmond should bring her silence to an end when she comes out of her bunker and gets a question put to him at fmq by an SNP member so that we finally see her implode. One thing is clear, she is no leader as we all suspected. Her woman and equality card is lying in tatters as we speak.
 
 
# hektorsmum 2012-02-13 19:49
Could not but agree with you, this lady was so desperate to be leader that it was apparent during the count at the Parliamentary election. She was an extremely boring speaker and I have to say if she was the best Labour could do, they were and are destined to see the end of the Party in Scotland.
 
 
# From The Suburbs 2012-02-13 17:58
Off topic Edinburgh Evening News reports that former Dunfermline Football Manager Jim Leishman is to stand for Labour at May's council elections. Look forward to many appearances on BBC and this explains why he was awarded an MBE by Labour in 2007 despite not winning any major titles as a player or manager.
 
 
# Auld Bob 2012-02-13 18:17
Big Jim lives, (mind you I've not seen him for ages, at Keltybridge on the outskirts of my home village. Jim was born in Lochgelly so comes from the heartland of the Communist and also the Labour Party. All former mining communities.
 
 
# hektorsmum 2012-02-13 19:50
How does he swallow NuLabour then? I forgot they don't realise that the Labour Party they voted for no longer exists.
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 18:09
Seems recent comments posted which still appear in the right hand side have vanished from this page, any ideas anyone?
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 18:12
A clash between modding and browser caching?
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 18:15
Not understanding I'm afraid ...
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 18:24
Posts may have been modded off, but your browser still shows an 'old' version of RHS comments because it hasn't bothered to fetch a new one, and just uses the one it fetched earlier and stored in its cache. CTRL+F5 does a 'hard refresh' and forces your lazy browser to fetch the page again and get an up-to-date version.
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 18:13
The ones bolded taken from the rhs summary have gone ....

Rebel Glasgow Labour councillo...
Agreed, on another thread they're discus...
Mundell adds to UK coalition d...
LibDems were strong in my area and a vot... Rebel Glasgow Labour councillo...
Sorry to be so cynical but i just wouldn... Rebel Glasgow Labour councillo...
Some good points. In 2011 May elections ... Glasgow 'deserves better than ...
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 18:15
It's also possible that the 'recent posts' function takes pre-moderation posts which don't yet show up beneath articles.

Or the internet is broken.
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 18:17
They were there if that makes sense which is why they appear in the RHS summary of recent comments.
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 18:21
Then the internet is broken. Clearly this happened some time ago while I was not online, leaving you as the responsible party. Have you tried switching the internet off and then on again?
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 18:24
Haha, anyway while I may not understand what's happened there's now a summarised response on the RHS to one of the vanished comments, whatever.
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 18:30
You're right. Comments that aren't there. Doesn't seem to be a browser caching problem, though, which makes it a server/software problem. Probably.
 
 
# Albalha 2012-02-13 18:30
This is the summary of the response
Rebel Glasgow Labour councillo...
If STUC came

If they have been modded off I thought that appeared, anyway.
 
 
# Roll_On_2011 2012-02-13 18:23
OT

Rangers to go into administration:

scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# From The Suburbs 2012-02-13 18:33
Quoting Roll_On_2011:
OT

Rangers to go into administration:

scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/.../...


How much will they get for the portrait of the Queen that hangs in the home dressing room?
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-13 19:08
That will keep labour.... glasgow or otherwise off the main news for a bit
 
 
# sneckedagain 2012-02-13 18:40
I figured this was the plan for Rangers some time ago.
 
 
# Newsnet Moderation Team 2012-02-13 18:50
This thread is not about football. While NNS doesn't insist that all comments are on topic, the moderation policy does insist that comments do not derail the thread. That looks to be the case here, so the moderation policy will be strictly applied.
 
 
# D_A_N 2012-02-13 19:02
that's fair enough, but you've moderated the wrong posts imho. You left my posts that were just about football in general. But got rid of my post about a possible division between religion and supporters of certain teams which is a legitimate cause for concern. I was trying to address this as we do not want divisions like this in the cause for independence.
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 18:53
Ah, but what happens if the rebel Glasgow Labour councillors decide to call themselves Rangers Labour? Then we'd be back on topic.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-02-13 18:57
Lone Rangers might be more appropriate, given the likelihood of the deselected cooncillors' having minimal electoral success.
 
 
# rhymer 2012-02-13 23:36
Quoting oldnat:
Lone Rangers might be more appropriate, given the likelihood of the deselected cooncillors' having minimal electoral success.


"Looking for a loan" rangers ?
 
 
# oldnat 2012-02-13 23:51
LOL

But that the UK still controls (or rather doesn't bother to control) finance companies which rip off the people is less funny.

www.wonga.com/

"Representative APR 4214%"
 
 
# cynicalHighlander 2012-02-14 00:05
Moody's are downgrading UK to negative!
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-14 00:28
As high a rating as that
How much better they would do without that drag round their neck that is Scotland
 
 
# oldnat 2012-02-14 00:40
moodys.com/.../...
"Moody's changes the outlook on the United Kingdom's Aaa rating to negative

Moody's Investors Service has today changed the outlook on the United Kingdom's Aaa government bond rating to negative from stable.

The key drivers of today's action on the United Kingdom are:

1.) The increased uncertainty regarding the pace of fiscal consolidation in the UK due to materially weaker growth prospects over the next few years, with risks skewed to the downside. Any further abrupt economic or fiscal deterioration would put into question the government's ability to place the debt burden on a downward trajectory by fiscal year 2015-16.

2.) Although the UK is outside the euro area, the high risk of further shocks (economic, financial, or political) within the currency union are exerting negative pressure on the UK's Aaa rating given the country's trade and financial links with the euro area. Overall, Moody's believes that the considerable uncertainty over the prospects for institutional reform in the euro area and the region's weak macroeconomic outlook will continue to weigh on already fragile market confidence across Europe.

Concurrently, Moody's has today also changed to negative the outlook on the Aaa debt rating of the Bank of England in line with the change of outlook on the UK's sovereign rating.

RATIONALE FOR NEGATIVE OUTLOOK

The primary driver underlying Moody's decision to change the outlook on the UK's Aaa rating to negative is the weaker macroeconomic environment, which will challenge the government's efforts to place its debt burden on a downward trajectory over the coming years. These challenges, reflecting the combined effect of a commodity price driven hit to real incomes, the confidence shock from the euro area and a reassessment of the lasting effects of the financial crisis on potential output, were already evident in the government's Autumn Statement. The statement announced that a further two years of austerity measures would be needed in order for the government to meet its fiscal mandate of achieving a cyclically adjusted current budget balance by the end of a rolling five-year time horizon, and to reach its target of placing net public sector debt on a declining path by fiscal year 2015-16.

Moody's central expectation is that these objectives will be met, with a general government gross debt-to-GDP ratio peaking at just under 95% in 2014 or 2015, before gradually declining thereafter. However, Moody's expects the UK's debt to peak later, and at a higher level, than in most other Aaa-rated countries. Moreover, risks to the rating agency's forecasts are skewed to the downside. In part, these risks are the by-product of a necessary fiscal consolidation programme and the ongoing parallel deleveraging process in both the household and financial sectors. Moody's also believes that the further cutbacks announced last autumn indicate that the government has a reduced capacity to absorb further abrupt economic or fiscal deterioration without incurring a further slippage in its consolidation timetable.

A combination of a rising medium-term debt trajectory and lower-than-expected trend economic growth would put into question the government's ability to retain its Aaa rating. The UK's outstanding debt places it amongst the most heavily indebted of its Aaa-rated peers, alongside the United States and France whose Aaa ratings also carry a negative outlook."
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-14 00:52
And the uncertainty of the ref never even warranted a mention
They'll be most disappointed at that oversight
 
 
# Begbie 2012-02-13 18:55
"We'll be called all sorts of things by Labour. They will try everything under the sun to stop us.
What? why would they think labour would do such a thing
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-13 18:58
They have rather shot themselves in the foot with that comment.
 
 
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-02-13 19:31
It will not just be Labour who will belabour them.... :-D
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-13 19:13
Spotted on STV news the great spotted Broon even speaks Thought this male species of the bird was extinct
 
 
# millie 2012-02-13 19:17
O/T, but..

Good news on potential investment front:

google.com/.../...
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-13 20:28
Thanks millie, thats a good news story.
 
 
# Jim1320 2012-02-13 20:21
Johann has little to say although she is apparently "worried" that Eck and Moore haven't settled definitely on the referendum date (well Eck has, Moore is pretending he has a say in the matter). Johann has probably let this concern occupy her waking thoughts and is too busy to discuss the car crash that is Glasgow Labour.
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-13 20:26
I just knew that there would be a reasonable answer to her afore mentioned reticence Well done for winkling that out and her being worried and all
 
 
# enneffess 2012-02-13 21:07
The elections will be interesting in May.

There is a good chance that the Labour vote will be split, which should benefit the other parties, primarily the SNP in most areas.

However, many councillors will probably be popular in their wards (electoral, not clinical), so that will influence the votes.

If the rebel councillors and the regular Labour ones manage to win an equivalent majority, will they form a coalition, or will the the rebels side with the SNP?

Whatever happens, the control of the council is likely to be lost by Labour.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-02-13 21:31
Labour, side with the SNP? They may be rebels, but they're still Labour.
 
 
# oldnat 2012-02-14 00:13
I have no idea about whether these deselected Labour councillors are popular in their wards or not. I suspect that most people don't actually know anything about their councillors, and care less.

However, in 2007 in North Ayrshire, a number of former Labour people were elected as Independents because there was a groundswell against Labour's PFI schemes.

Whether something similar would happen in Glasgow, I have no idea. However, it seems a reasonable guess that Labour won't have a majority on the council after the election, the Tories won't advance, the LDs will collapse.
 
 
# rhymer 2012-02-13 23:46
Why had the labour party classed them as "dead wood" ?
Even if you are a useless councillor you will not take kindly to some guy in London labour HQ getting you fired. Did these HQ idiots actually believe that these people would meekly go away ?
I am curious as to why they were deselected. Anybody know ?
 

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