Tuesday, 05 June 2012 18:52
62 Comments
By Martin Kelly 
The leader of Glasgow Council has been urged to clarify the local authority’s policy on Orange Walks after concerns were raised that bands may be allowed to play music outside places of worship.
Labour’s Gordon Matheson has come under pressure to clarify his party’s stance on parades following recent revelations that he attended an Orange Order hustings in the days leading up to the local authority elections.
Mr Matheson’s attendance at the Hustings is reported to have ended with the Labour council leader claiming, to loud applause, that the council’s policy on Orange Parades was wrong. It followed threats by the Order to campaign against Labour.
Today MSP Humza Yousaf called on Glasgow City Council to reaffirm its commitment to the Parades and Processions Code of Conduct which was described by police chiefs as a “template” for other local authorities.
Mr Yousaf, SNP MSP for Glasgow, has been pressing Mr Matheson for the detail of his proposed review following a letter from the council leader which fails to clarify exactly what changes the council will look at implementing.
Mr Yousaf said:
"My concerns lie in finding the balance between protecting the rights of those who come to Glasgow in order to march and the rights and safety of the people who live, work, play and worship here.
"Mr Matheson's letter outlines an area which will be reviewed is the restriction on playing music on passing places of worship - this is something that I am deeply uneasy about.
"The code of conduct states that parades should not play music while passing places of worship be it a Chapel, a Synagogue, a Mosque or any place of worship. Any relaxation of this would be unwelcome.”
According to the Herald newspaper, the Labour run council is currently looking into increasing the number of processions throughout the city and allowing religious and political parades to start playing their music earlier and also allowing music to be played later.
However, in a letter to Mr Yousaf, Mr Matheson denied this and suggested that he was in fact looking to reduce the number of parades.
The SNP MSP was also concerned that public cash had been handed over by the Labour council to allow the Orange Order to stage events commemorating the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee.
He added:
"I'm also keen to know precisely why the Orange Order was given pockets of public money to hold parades across Glasgow during the Queen's Jubilee celebrations.
"The Jubilee is meant to be a time of inclusive celebration and I'm not convinced this is something which the parades in Glasgow at the weekend achieved. It would be good to know exactly how GCC measure how inclusive parades and marches are."
Mr Matheson has previously claimed that there were no plans to alter the policy and that an annual review had always been scheduled. However, in the eighteen months since the introduction of the policy no such review has ever taken place.
Speaking last month, Anne Keay, of the Merchant City Community Council who worked with Mr Matheson when the policy was being drafted, accused the Labour Councillor of changing his position and of having let her down.
She said: "Gordon Matheson has changed his stance and I feel enormously let down. He has continually given the impression at our meetings that he is in favour of reducing marches through the city centre and re-routing them."
Members of the Catholic community in Glasgow have expressed concern that the large number of Orange Order Marches in the city encourages and promotes sectarian behaviour.
Monsignor Peter Smith, the former chancellor of Glasgow Archdiocese, described the attitude of many marchers towards Catholics as 'appalling'.
Hear Mr Yousaf being interviewed on BBC radio Scotland
Comments
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2012-06-05 19:19
Simply another example of how low Labour party officials will sink in their pursuit of power and defence of the Union.
Ordinary Labour voters must surely see what is happening to their once proud party.
It is no longer a left wing, socialist party, but a reactionary party of the establishment.
Ordinary Labour voters must surely see what is happening to their once proud party.
It is no longer a left wing, socialist party, but a reactionary party of the establishment.
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2012-06-05 19:32
I wonder if the catholics who voted for labour in glasgow will now see them for what they realy are? and think twice in future.
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2012-06-05 19:43
The Tories were of course the traditional party of the protestant orangeman. Given New Labour have largely supplanted the Tories as Scotland's centre-right unionist party, this new alliance with the OO seems seems only natural.
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2012-06-06 17:05
Why CENTRE-right? They left the centre behind long ago. Tony Blair was/is further right than Thatcher.
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2012-06-05 19:42
The marching season along with the old firm is just part of the toxic mix that keeps scotland in the dark ages. iT'S TIME TO CALL A HALT! I was brought up in a town which was economically derelict and educationally and culturally deprived..but people were occupied with fighting about religion and waved irish and english flags!!If people want to march let them do it round the schemes they live in- coz I'm betting not many marchers are uni graduates or own nice houses in the areas blighted by them. I should have the freedom to move around my city without being held up by dinosaurs. And I certainly dont see why such a political organisation should get my tax money.....i didn't vote for that!
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2012-06-05 19:52
We kids used to be taken to the Belfast Orange Marches. We had no idea but were told it was "Our Brave Boys" marching. My relatives were great people, but to hear them talking about Catholics was frightening. Luckily none of us kids caught the bug.
"Our Brave Boys" should have faded away by now - but then we complain about father-to-son voters of some political parties in particular parts of Scotland. This is one aspect of normality that I do not understand.
"Our Brave Boys" should have faded away by now - but then we complain about father-to-son voters of some political parties in particular parts of Scotland. This is one aspect of normality that I do not understand.
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2012-06-05 20:07
Aye Marga B Its time those days were over...We need our kids to vote "Yes" in order to give their kids a chance to move on from the eternal bigotry that still plagues part of Scotland.
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2012-06-06 07:20
Came from the same world. A tool used by Westminster to keep Ireland and Scotland devided.
Our nationalism is inclusive and I hope will always remain so.
Our nationalism is inclusive and I hope will always remain so.
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2012-06-06 11:43
Quoting clootie:
Clootie, speaking as a now non-practising Church of Scotland member, I am aware of the unfortunate history of anti-Irish and anti-RC attitude and actual preaching on those subjects, by the original Scottish Kirk.
An example was after the defeat of Montrose's Highland and Irish army at the Battle of Philiphaugh, the Kirk ministers were described as "stalking the battlefield like black hoodie craws", exhorting the government (protestant) troops to slaughter the wounded and also the non-combatant camp followers, with the slogan "Jesus and nae quarter!"
In England, Cromwell's New Model Army, mainly hard-line Puritans, had the same attitude to the Irish, whom they regarded in the same way as Hitler's Nazis did the Jews, as a sort of sub-human species (untermensch was the term applied to them).
So, my point is, place the blame squarely where it belongs, with our self-proclaimed "unco' guid" Christians, of all persuasions, who have hated, persecuted and even murdered one another, all in the name of Christianity of course. Unfortunately we now in modern times have the Muslims doing the same thing, Sunni on Shia, Jihadis on anyone who doesn't agree with them, etc.
Solution? If it were possible, eradicate all religions, and that would make a start. We could then get back to fighting over territory and trade - joke!
Came from the same world. A tool used by Westminster to keep Ireland and Scotland devided.
Our nationalism is inclusive and I hope will always remain so.
Clootie, speaking as a now non-practising Church of Scotland member, I am aware of the unfortunate history of anti-Irish and anti-RC attitude and actual preaching on those subjects, by the original Scottish Kirk.
An example was after the defeat of Montrose's Highland and Irish army at the Battle of Philiphaugh, the Kirk ministers were described as "stalking the battlefield like black hoodie craws", exhorting the government (protestant) troops to slaughter the wounded and also the non-combatant camp followers, with the slogan "Jesus and nae quarter!"
In England, Cromwell's New Model Army, mainly hard-line Puritans, had the same attitude to the Irish, whom they regarded in the same way as Hitler's Nazis did the Jews, as a sort of sub-human species (untermensch was the term applied to them).
So, my point is, place the blame squarely where it belongs, with our self-proclaimed "unco' guid" Christians, of all persuasions, who have hated, persecuted and even murdered one another, all in the name of Christianity of course. Unfortunately we now in modern times have the Muslims doing the same thing, Sunni on Shia, Jihadis on anyone who doesn't agree with them, etc.
Solution? If it were possible, eradicate all religions, and that would make a start. We could then get back to fighting over territory and trade - joke!
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2012-06-06 17:11
proudscot, you'd need to eradicate all human beings, and seems like too final a solution to me (pun intended).
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2012-06-05 19:56
After the Jubileefest I am more convinced than ever that we will never move on to remake our country unless we leave behind the privilege and vested social status that is incumbant in the present dispensation. We have a once in an era chance to make something better. I hope Scotland catches the prospect of that opportunity, leaves behind the sectarian nonsense which is a product of the 17th century and has absolutely nothing to do with life affirming values of Christianity. Roll on 2014.
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2012-06-05 20:02
It seems Scots have been fairly unimpressed by the Jubilee. And it's been noticed.
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2012-06-05 20:15
Only to be expected; why would people want to wave/deck out their street with what is primarily an English flag.
The union jack was adopted south of the border over the St. George's Cross. This was never really the case in Scotland and normally when the jack was flown, alongside would be the saltire. Scottish regiments in the army is a classic example.
Here is the Jack being waved at Wembley in 1966 by English fans:
prints.paphotos.com/.../...
Scottish fans at that time of course waved the saltire / lion rampant.
The St. George's cross has come back into flavour, particularly since devolution, but the Union jack is and always has been a much more an English flag. Likewise celebration of the monarchy.
The union jack was adopted south of the border over the St. George's Cross. This was never really the case in Scotland and normally when the jack was flown, alongside would be the saltire. Scottish regiments in the army is a classic example.
Here is the Jack being waved at Wembley in 1966 by English fans:
prints.paphotos.com/.../...
Scottish fans at that time of course waved the saltire / lion rampant.
The St. George's cross has come back into flavour, particularly since devolution, but the Union jack is and always has been a much more an English flag. Likewise celebration of the monarchy.
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2012-06-06 13:10
A similar point could be used when you consider national anthems SS
When was the last time a Scottish national team of any sport sang GSTQ?
When was the last time a Scottish national team of any sport sang GSTQ?
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2012-06-05 20:44
Quoting Marga B:
After having the Jubilee crammed down our throats for the last couple of months it was rather heartening to see - with the exception of the MSM and shops - a distinct lack of Union flags.
Something make me think though...nearly all the bunting and flags I saw were in council/'low-end' areas, while the more well-to-do areas were pretty much as normal - anyone have any theories to why that was?
It seems Scots have been fairly unimpressed by the Jubilee. And it's been noticed.
After having the Jubilee crammed down our throats for the last couple of months it was rather heartening to see - with the exception of the MSM and shops - a distinct lack of Union flags.
Something make me think though...nearly all the bunting and flags I saw were in council/'low-end' areas, while the more well-to-do areas were pretty much as normal - anyone have any theories to why that was?
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2012-06-05 21:00
I was in St Andrew's for the weekend and there were a fair few Union Jacks and a good smattering of bunting. I guess it depends on area as well as class.
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2012-06-05 21:05
St. Andrews does attract a lot of English students. It's probably also popular with royalists since Wills & Kate went there. Perhaps that had something to do with it?
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2012-06-05 21:09
At St. Andrews Uni, I was one of 5 Scots out of a class of 30.
It is a good uni, but it is where you go if you are from the home counties and didn't make Oxford or Cambridge.
My claim to fame is that it remains a distinct possibility that I have shared a throne with HRH Prince William.
It is a good uni, but it is where you go if you are from the home counties and didn't make Oxford or Cambridge.
My claim to fame is that it remains a distinct possibility that I have shared a throne with HRH Prince William.
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2012-06-05 21:18
Only saw the one Saltire in a garden all weekend
The whole weekend seemed totally contrived and fake to me, it made me pine for the old Gala Days - a real community event, all-inclusive and none of the sentimentalist, Royalist fawning...well,apart from the Gala Queen
The whole weekend seemed totally contrived and fake to me, it made me pine for the old Gala Days - a real community event, all-inclusive and none of the sentimentalist, Royalist fawning...well,apart from the Gala Queen
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2012-06-05 21:31
Never heard of the Kate Kennedy Club?
Bullingdon Boy wannabes?
There is an 'old boys' lot at St. Andrews. However, I enjoyed my 4 years there and made lots of friends from all across the UK. I had good mates from south of the border who were genuinely pleased for me when Scots voted for devolution/we were to have a parliament again (they loved braveheart when we watched it in the cinema incidentally - I never hid my political feelings so it was all a bit of a laugh). I recall a beach party on the isle of Skye (geology field trip) to celebrate.
Bullingdon Boy wannabes?
There is an 'old boys' lot at St. Andrews. However, I enjoyed my 4 years there and made lots of friends from all across the UK. I had good mates from south of the border who were genuinely pleased for me when Scots voted for devolution/we were to have a parliament again (they loved braveheart when we watched it in the cinema incidentally - I never hid my political feelings so it was all a bit of a laugh). I recall a beach party on the isle of Skye (geology field trip) to celebrate.
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2012-06-05 23:14
Just watching a program on the Transit of Venus and I was appalled, but not surprised, that they categorically stated on two occasions (so far) that the idea of using the TOV to calculate the distance of the Sun from the Earth was that of English astronomer Edmund Halley. This is a lie.
The person who first proposed using the TOV to do this was Scot James Gregory. He even built an observatory at St Andrews capable of measuring this event, but died tragically young and somewhat mysteriously. Halley merely did further calculations to back up Gregory's proposal.
I did a quick check on the NASA website and on Wiki. Here are the relevant quotes:
NASA:"For example, if by some means the astronomers knew that on May 25, 2012 the calculated distance between Venus and Earth was 0.28 AU and its actual distance was 26 million miles, a simple proportion would show that 26 million/0.28 = X/1.000 so the distance between Earth and sun would be X = 93 million miles.
The idea proposed by Scottish astronomer James Gregory in 1663 was to use the next transit of Venus to measure the distance to Venus, and then perform just this simple calculation"
WIKI:"He[Gregory] also described the method for using the transit of Venus to measure the distance of the Earth from the Sun, which was later advocated by Edmund Halley and adopted as the basis of the first effective measurement of the Astronomical Unit."
Of course, it almost goes without saying, that Scot, Gregory, received no mention at all on the BBC.
Perhaps their research budget does not extend to looking up the NASA or WIKI sites.
I couldn't help myself and pointlessly phoned in a complaint to the BBC which no doubt is already in the shredder basket.
Gregory is the most wronged of Scotland's geniuses. More so than Matthews or Maxwell even.
So many of his contributions, calculus (differentiatio n and integration, First Proof of the Calculus), series(converge nce testing, series for calculating Pi, "Taylor's Series"), inventing the first reflecting telescope (known elsewhere in the World as the Gregorian telescope), first identification of diffraction spectra, have gone attributed, at least in the UK, to others like Newton, Leibniz, Hooke or Taylor; while his true genius remains hidden.
The person who first proposed using the TOV to do this was Scot James Gregory. He even built an observatory at St Andrews capable of measuring this event, but died tragically young and somewhat mysteriously. Halley merely did further calculations to back up Gregory's proposal.
I did a quick check on the NASA website and on Wiki. Here are the relevant quotes:
NASA:"For example, if by some means the astronomers knew that on May 25, 2012 the calculated distance between Venus and Earth was 0.28 AU and its actual distance was 26 million miles, a simple proportion would show that 26 million/0.28 = X/1.000 so the distance between Earth and sun would be X = 93 million miles.
The idea proposed by Scottish astronomer James Gregory in 1663 was to use the next transit of Venus to measure the distance to Venus, and then perform just this simple calculation"
WIKI:"He[Gregory] also described the method for using the transit of Venus to measure the distance of the Earth from the Sun, which was later advocated by Edmund Halley and adopted as the basis of the first effective measurement of the Astronomical Unit."
Of course, it almost goes without saying, that Scot, Gregory, received no mention at all on the BBC.
Perhaps their research budget does not extend to looking up the NASA or WIKI sites.
I couldn't help myself and pointlessly phoned in a complaint to the BBC which no doubt is already in the shredder basket.
Gregory is the most wronged of Scotland's geniuses. More so than Matthews or Maxwell even.
So many of his contributions, calculus (differentiatio n and integration, First Proof of the Calculus), series(converge nce testing, series for calculating Pi, "Taylor's Series"), inventing the first reflecting telescope (known elsewhere in the World as the Gregorian telescope), first identification of diffraction spectra, have gone attributed, at least in the UK, to others like Newton, Leibniz, Hooke or Taylor; while his true genius remains hidden.
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2012-06-06 04:22
Part of hiding true Scottish history which seems to be the order of the day don't you think?
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2012-06-06 15:10
Thanks for taking the time to pass on this info Chic, I found it really interesting....
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2012-06-06 22:13
I'm a very amateur amateur astronomer but watched the previous transit of Venus on 8 June 2004 from our balcony in southern Finland. My boyfrend at the time had a telescope so we projected the image on cardboard, and also used the "welders glass" filter to have a direct look. Had some friends over to witness the phenomenon, and a good time was had by all.
Before the event I read up on the phenomenon, and knew that it was Scotsman James Gregory who first proposed the calculations, hence the reason why it was so important to observe the phenomenon that many explorers were sent out to far-flung places by many governments to observe it in 1769, among them a certain Captain Cook, who was sent to Tahiti, and then subsequently "discovered" Australia.
Alas, this time the weather was cloudy here so couldn't see it. :-(
As to Halley, he was the first astronomer I got to know about as a wee kid, simply because my grandpa saw Halley's Comet as a young lad, and we were all looking forward to him seeing it again as an old man - which he did.
Before the event I read up on the phenomenon, and knew that it was Scotsman James Gregory who first proposed the calculations, hence the reason why it was so important to observe the phenomenon that many explorers were sent out to far-flung places by many governments to observe it in 1769, among them a certain Captain Cook, who was sent to Tahiti, and then subsequently "discovered" Australia.
Alas, this time the weather was cloudy here so couldn't see it. :-(
As to Halley, he was the first astronomer I got to know about as a wee kid, simply because my grandpa saw Halley's Comet as a young lad, and we were all looking forward to him seeing it again as an old man - which he did.
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2012-06-06 08:37
It seems that the razzle of the Jubilee may have been tarnished by the claims of using unqualified job seekers who were bused in to steward the even. If claims are true these people were asked to sleep under a bridge before their work day started. Is this really an image that we wish to project, one of serfdom and the privileged classes?
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2012-06-05 20:07
I could never understand why they have to march in the west coast to commemorate a battle that took place overseas, why not go to the scene of the skirmish.
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2012-06-05 20:23
They won the battle, but they lost the war. No Union Jacks fly near the River Boyne these days.
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2012-06-05 20:41
Likewise, the battle honour 'Culloden' was removed from the colours of certain regiments.
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2012-06-05 20:34
I thought that the Labour party in the west of Scotland was essentially a catholic dominated party with links to gangsters and a voter base that was rooted within local authority workers.
I may be wrong, but i cant imagine that these links to the Orange Order will go down well with catholic labour voters which after all is their main source of votes in the West of Scotland.
I may be wrong, but i cant imagine that these links to the Orange Order will go down well with catholic labour voters which after all is their main source of votes in the West of Scotland.
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2012-06-05 20:36
We should always remind voters that the anti Scottish independence campaign has the support of UKIP, the BNP and the Scottish Defence League.
Nowadays the Union Jack in Scotland is mainly associated with right wing and religious extremists.
Nowadays the Union Jack in Scotland is mainly associated with right wing and religious extremists.
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2012-06-05 20:42
What does this fool want? To start sectarian street fighting in Glasgow? There will be retaliation and we'll know who to blame. Although that's small comfort when the bodies/casulties are being wheeled into the local hospitals.
Although from Edinburgh, I too was brought up with a vote tory, hate catholic mantra from my parents. Thankfully I saw fairly early on how stupid it all was and rejected both ideas by the time I was in my early teens.
Until Scotland rids herself of this foolish nonsense, we have a problem.
Although from Edinburgh, I too was brought up with a vote tory, hate catholic mantra from my parents. Thankfully I saw fairly early on how stupid it all was and rejected both ideas by the time I was in my early teens.
Until Scotland rids herself of this foolish nonsense, we have a problem.
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2012-06-05 20:51
If any explanation was required for the local election result in Glasgow then this may be it.
Tell the Orange Order what they want to here and they make sure all their supporters vote for the "right" candidate. Meanwhile as this isn't reported the Catholic vote goes along and votes Labour as expected.
I wonder if there are more than a few of the Glasgow electorate who would have voted differently if they had been aware of this story before the elections?
Tell the Orange Order what they want to here and they make sure all their supporters vote for the "right" candidate. Meanwhile as this isn't reported the Catholic vote goes along and votes Labour as expected.
I wonder if there are more than a few of the Glasgow electorate who would have voted differently if they had been aware of this story before the elections?
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2012-06-05 20:53
Labour makes deals with the Tories and the Lib Dems to prevent Scots determining their own future.
Labour makes a deal with the Orange Order to secure their votes in the local council elections.
There is nothing Scottish about Scottish Labour.
Labour makes a deal with the Orange Order to secure their votes in the local council elections.
There is nothing Scottish about Scottish Labour.
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2012-06-05 20:54
Why is Michael Kelly so quiet about his lovable Labour Party supporting the Orange Order.Glasgowsmilesbe tter. Once chairman of Celtic and Lord Provost, until recently available at any notice to smear the SNP. He has vanished, anyone know why.
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2012-06-05 22:20
Michael Kelly should be thoroughly ashamed to see his beloved Labour Party via Glasgow City Council apparently prostitute itself to the Orange Order for votes. From his personal position it must be the mother of all kicks in the teeth.
Why no outrage?
Why no outrage?
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2012-06-05 21:58
Amazing article by Ewan Crawford in the Scotsman of all places!
How are they allowing it?, without their collective blood presure going through the roof, seems impossible.
scotsman.com/.../...
"In a debate in the Scottish Parliament last week the old time anti-independence religion was much in evidence with Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont even at one point suggesting parents wouldn’t be able to feed their children if the SNP had its way"
How are they allowing it?, without their collective blood presure going through the roof, seems impossible.
scotsman.com/.../...
"In a debate in the Scottish Parliament last week the old time anti-independence religion was much in evidence with Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont even at one point suggesting parents wouldn’t be able to feed their children if the SNP had its way"
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2012-06-06 14:10
Also the circulation is in free fall, so they need to try and attract readers of all political persuasions other than the North British Midlothians.
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2012-06-05 23:27
Matheson would sell his granny first and then his soul to hold onto 'power' ..... I do not understand why anyone is surprised after all we are still awaiting Matheson's permission to allow Strathclyde Police to access key documents to do with the City Building contracts with Purcell's pals and the dodgy land deals with Sir David (lets sell Rangers down the swanney) Murray.
I have no sympathy for the good folk of Glasgow, they got what they voted for - another four years of New Labour corruption.
I have no sympathy for the good folk of Glasgow, they got what they voted for - another four years of New Labour corruption.
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2012-06-06 06:23
Quoting Mad Jock McMad:
Mathieson's permission is required for Strathclyde Police to investigate possible criminal activity? Have things really got to that stage?
.. we are still awaiting Matheson's permission to allow Strathclyde Police to access key documents
Mathieson's permission is required for Strathclyde Police to investigate possible criminal activity? Have things really got to that stage?
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2012-06-05 23:31
As a young (protestant) boy in Lanarkshire I was told by my neighbour not to play with a boy because he was a catholic. I was glad I moved to Dundee where the attitude was so different, wish the relics in the West would let this history rest and just learn to get on with each other!
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2012-06-06 01:46
Cockers writing usual drivel in the Telegraph, again slated in the comments section, it brigtens the start of my day.
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2012-06-06 07:07
Cockers is that particular type of commentator who likes to supply the ammunition and have his rag fire the gun. He then sits back and allows the shrapnel to fly. I've never actually seen him comment BTL to answer his many, many critics, he's too happy to spout nonsense and let others rage against his accusations. I gave up reading and commenting on the Telegraph months ago. My IBS cleared up almost immediately. :)
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2012-06-06 01:51
BTW, it is the 'Union Flag', it is the 'Jack', when flown from the pointy end of a RN SHIP.
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2012-06-06 02:40
Completely unrelated but, I see the Scotsman are running a poll asking Should there be a minimum price for alcohol to cut drinking?
Its got today's date on it and remarkably there are nearly 28500 votes with 89% against and 11% for!
Its got today's date on it and remarkably there are nearly 28500 votes with 89% against and 11% for!
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2012-06-06 06:48
I was just wondering what sort of coverage this had got in the Catholic newspapers.I looked at the online version of the Observer last week and couldn't see anything.I also understand that their paper version did not cover this either which is a bit strange.
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2012-06-06 07:33
Remember Camerons comments when he said that Londons rich care about the Scottish poor and the Scottish rich care about the poor in london? Seems like Molly Prince - the director of Close Protection UK doesnt care about any poor people as his company (Close Protection UK)used unemployed jobseekers for unpaid Labour as stewards during the Queens Diamond Jubilee celebrations. up to 30 of them were forced to get changed in the rain and sleep under London Bridge. I thought that "Britons NEvER NEVER MEVER shall be slaves". Worse still is that the BBC have failed to run with the story because it will cause embarrassment. Once again it seems like we are not all in it together
guardian.co.uk/.../...
guardian.co.uk/.../...
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2012-06-06 08:50
I am a non practicing protestant and have never been into the marches, however my catholic neighbors used to go out and watch the bands with my dad, my father just loved the music. However I have never lived in Glasgow. Balance is needed, I do not like the symbolism but recognise they are also part of our culture, for some bands its one of the few chances they get to showcase as local galas are closed down. Here mariners days has be shut for several years and FDC would love to close the Grangemouth galaday and Boness fair which have been running for over 100 years.
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2012-06-06 09:12
Same story as a number of posters here. Brought up in a small mining and textile community in the central belt, you couldn't move for right or left foot mindset. It was always counterproducti ve, destroying and hampering communities across the board, that's what it was intended to do. Hopefully a new generation and a newly independent Scotland can do something about that.
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2012-06-06 09:29
Mathieson is a creepy little guy who is used to getting his own way, he is nothing I ever imagined that the people of Glasgow would elect.
He has obviously played with some serious emotion if deals on orange Parades just to secure votes has been done, as seems likely.
It shows that he and the whole of the labour elite would and did, do anything and everything to win votes.It lies with the people of Glasgow whether or not Mathieson should get away with this or should he be held to explain it all and see how and if they can really agree with it.
He has obviously played with some serious emotion if deals on orange Parades just to secure votes has been done, as seems likely.
It shows that he and the whole of the labour elite would and did, do anything and everything to win votes.It lies with the people of Glasgow whether or not Mathieson should get away with this or should he be held to explain it all and see how and if they can really agree with it.
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2012-06-06 10:15
What's this article in the Scotsman:
Glasgow City Council is preparing a review of its processions policy
Music ban on Orange marches in Glasgow could be overturned by council
• Review will also consider use of public spaces such as George Square, Nelson Mandela Place and parks
• Stewarding arrangements, timing, costs and unauthorised processions will also be considered
I understand the bit about the lifting of the music ban, but not the rest - does this imply more privileges for the OO or less?
How much did Mathieson promise them?
Glasgow City Council is preparing a review of its processions policy
Music ban on Orange marches in Glasgow could be overturned by council
• Review will also consider use of public spaces such as George Square, Nelson Mandela Place and parks
• Stewarding arrangements, timing, costs and unauthorised processions will also be considered
I understand the bit about the lifting of the music ban, but not the rest - does this imply more privileges for the OO or less?
How much did Mathieson promise them?
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2012-06-06 10:19
The Orange Order in Scotland is a shadow of its former self. Traditionally Tory voters, their supporters were used to break up ILP meetings in the good old Red Clyde days of Maxton & Co. Just how much influence this organisation has on the electorate is very doubtful as Glasgow's largely Protestant population has consistantly voted Labour,apart from a spell of Tory control in the 60's. The city now apparently has more Orange demonstrations than Belfast & Derry combined and the disruption can be imagined.
Personally I think the solution would be to limit Orange & Republican parades to the confines of Strathclyde Park where the brethren can march around the loch until they drop.
The views of the Labour Supremo, who featured prominently in the press kissing Matheson during the campaign! would be of some interest. (Whit wan's the frog?).
Personally I think the solution would be to limit Orange & Republican parades to the confines of Strathclyde Park where the brethren can march around the loch until they drop.
The views of the Labour Supremo, who featured prominently in the press kissing Matheson during the campaign! would be of some interest. (Whit wan's the frog?).
#
2012-06-06 10:26
Someone needs to ask Jim "holier than thou" Murphy what he makes of this , wonder what his take is on his beloved party doing this, he is usually first to start if anyone questions the catholic church, never mind allowing parades that glorify their slaughter.
#
2012-06-06 14:22
OT.URBAN POWER proposed in Consultation document.Right to buy LAND in towns/cities,for the community.Local people DIRECT say.
This is right up Labour's street---I'm waiting for Lamont's doom and gloom spin.
Phone a Friend?
news.stv.tv/.../...
Local Government Minister Derek Mackay said: "This Government believes that Scottish communities are a rich source of creativity and talent. Our people are our greatest asset.
This is right up Labour's street---I'm waiting for Lamont's doom and gloom spin.
Phone a Friend?
news.stv.tv/.../...
Local Government Minister Derek Mackay said: "This Government believes that Scottish communities are a rich source of creativity and talent. Our people are our greatest asset.
#
2012-06-06 14:25
Mathieson should be hounded until he drops over this. It's one issue that could really divide the Labour vote in Glasgow: Catholics will fear and loathe it, and moderate Protestants ( the majority) will be embarassed and condemn it. Murphy and Lamont should be forced to comment on this as well. One commentator on here suggested that the Strathclyde Police have been held at arms length by Mathieson over investigating Purcell's 'dealings'. Can this be true?I've been moderated on here before for suggesting impropriety on the previous incumbent's behaviour and protection by said polis. I'd be delighted for someone else to give concrete facts regarding any progress on any investigation into the rotten borough that is Glasgow.
#
2012-06-07 08:48
Do not expect any worthwhile comment from Murphy ( aka the REV JOLLY! ) or from Lamont any time soon.
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2012-06-06 14:53
I was brought up in the Church of Scotland , where my father was one of the Elders. His comments re the orange marches were generally sarcastic as he considered that the boy scouts marched better, the boys brigade had a better band, the girl guides were prettier, and the wolf cubs had a higher IQ.
In the 21st century the kind of attitude that supports this type of religious march is obsolete and outdated.
In the 21st century the kind of attitude that supports this type of religious march is obsolete and outdated.
#
2012-06-06 16:15
I was brought up in the Church of Rome, the Orangeman's right to march is part of the democratic tradition of this country and is immutable.
If people like "lochside " wish to politicise it as SNP v Labour more fool he.
If people like "lochside " wish to politicise it as SNP v Labour more fool he.
#
2012-06-06 16:38
Yes, and the Labour party have every right to seek the support of a group known for bigotry, just as the Tories have done traditionally. The Orange Order are after all citizens of Scotland. Given Labour have supplanted the Tories as Scotland's centre-right unionist party, it seems fitting that they take over from the Tories in being the OO's party of choice anyway.
It's just that it might not go down to well with the rest of the electorate, that's all.
----
EDIT. Just a reminder:
static.guim.co.uk/.../...
.../EdM+Speech+5.jpg
Look familiar? This is where you've seen it before:
i.telegraph.co.uk/.../...
It's just that it might not go down to well with the rest of the electorate, that's all.
----
EDIT. Just a reminder:
static.guim.co.uk/.../...
.../EdM+Speech+5.jpg
Look familiar? This is where you've seen it before:
i.telegraph.co.uk/.../...
#
2012-06-06 17:23
Indeed they have a right to march, but no right to march to the serious inconvenience or the offence of anybody else and there are rules and regulations that can perfectly democratically be applied to prevent them doing so.
Their history of marching through the centre of Glasgow (and other large conurbations)an d bringing the city to a standstill is an offensive,aggre ssive and proprietorial gesture and should be stopped.
Let them march round Bellahouston Park or, better still, St Kilda
Their history of marching through the centre of Glasgow (and other large conurbations)an d bringing the city to a standstill is an offensive,aggre ssive and proprietorial gesture and should be stopped.
Let them march round Bellahouston Park or, better still, St Kilda
#
2012-06-07 00:00
Don't know how much effect cosying up to a bigoted organisation still living in the 17th century would have had in the local elections in the 21st century.
Maybe they don't realise that they're mostly of Irish descent themselves - descendents of a tribe called by the Romans the Scotii from Northen Ireland - who colonised the west of Scotland calling it Dalriada. They were all converted to Christianity (as Catholics) and spread their religion throughout Scotland.
Ironic, isn't it. They don't know where they came from or, it seems where they're going in the 21st century. I reckon they'll die out like the dinosaurs pretty soon.
Maybe they don't realise that they're mostly of Irish descent themselves - descendents of a tribe called by the Romans the Scotii from Northen Ireland - who colonised the west of Scotland calling it Dalriada. They were all converted to Christianity (as Catholics) and spread their religion throughout Scotland.
Ironic, isn't it. They don't know where they came from or, it seems where they're going in the 21st century. I reckon they'll die out like the dinosaurs pretty soon.
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