General
Sunday, 05 February 2012 16:06
By G.A.Ponsonby
First Minister Alex Salmond has questioned the political impartiality of the BBC after leaked emails showed the corporation reversed a decision to allow the SNP leader to appear on an afternoon rugby show after pressure from political advisor Ric Bailey.
The refusal to allow Mr Salmond to appear as a pundit in light hearted pre-match coverage of yesterday’s Calcutta Cup match has caused a furious row with the SNP leader likening the behaviour of the BBC to that found in a “tin-pot dictatorship”.
Mr Salmond had been booked to appear alongside former rugby internationalists Andy Nicol and Jeremy Guscott. An email from BBC TV sport editor Carl Hicks had confirmed the booking after the BBC had been reassured that Mr Salmond would not make any mention of politics.
However on Friday the offer was blocked under the orders of Bailey. The London based political advisor cited “heightened tensions” over independence as the reason for withdrawing the offer.
Commenting on the decision Mr Salmond said it appeared that the BBC was now being run from Downing Street. Mr Salmond also revealed that BBC Scotland had again been ignored by London based chiefs who he said had panicked.
“The guy has just obviously panicked and doesn’t know what he’s doing” said Mr Salmond who added: “BBC Scotland, needless to say, weren’t consulted at all. They were just treated as they are normally treated.” BBC Scotland head Ken McQuarrie was not aware of Baillie’s decision.
“I would imagine people like Ric Bailey are in thrall to Downing Street now and that is actually the worrying thing. What this means is that an editorial decision, a journalistic decision on the BBC by the sports editor, has been overridden for political reasons by the political advisors.
“That’s what you get in tin-pot dictatorships. You’re not meant to get it in the BBC.”
The First Minister also questioned whether the BBC could now be trusted to cover the independence debate in a non-partisan manner and said: “It’s a totally unsustainable position which raises all sorts of questions about their impartiality and their role as a national broadcaster and basically if they can be trusted to conduct themselves as an impartial broadcaster in the run-up to the referendum campaign.”
The allegations by Mr Salmond are believed to be in addition to concerns that the Scottish Government were already planning to raise with Chair of the BBC Trust, Chris Patten who is due to visit Edinburgh next week.
The SNP leader said that he anticipated a “lively meeting” with Mr Patten who he is scheduled to meet on Thursday.
One of the concerns that will be raised involves the practice of BBC reporters, including BBC Scotland, of using the pejorative term ‘separation’ or ‘separatists’ when referring to independence and independence supporters.
The First Minister also pointed to widely expected broadcasts by Tory Prime Minister David Cameron in the run-up to the London Olympics as evidence of double standards.
However, speaking on Friday just as the story broke, Scottish Tory leader, and herself a former BBC Scotland presenter, Ruth Davidson defended her former bosses and accused the First Minister of “insulting” rugby fans.
Ms Davidson said: “I’ll be in the stands at Murrayfield tomorrow, proud to support my country. Just because you do not agree with everything the SNP says does not mean you are anti- Scottish or talking Scotland down.
“I am definitely Scottish, but I’m British too, and it’s an insult to me and thousands of others who feel this way to suggest we are somehow unpatriotic.”
A spokesman for Ms Davidson described Mr Salmond’s comments as “bully-boy tactics” and claimed it was “an embarrassing way” for him to behave.
A Scottish Labour spokesperson accused Mr Salmond of wanting to get his face on TV saying: “I’m sure Scottish Rugby fans would rather the First Minister concentrate on getting behind the team rather than getting his face on TV.”
SNP Westminster leader Angus Robertson MP said:
“This ban on Scotland’s First Minister by the BBC’s chief political adviser in London is bonkers. He has overruled his own editors and journalists in the manner you’d expect in a banana republic.
“The excuse about the local elections makes absolutely no sense – they don’t take place in Scotland until May, another three months!
“The serious issue here is the BBC’s excuse about the ‘political debate around Scotland’s future’ – which will be underway for the next two-and-a-half years. Are they suggesting that Scotland’s First Minister is to be banned from ‘business as usual’ programming by the BBC’s political bosses in London until 2014?
“And does this political ban from BBC coverage apply to David Cameron during the London Olympics this year, for example?
“The BBC is Scotland’s national broadcaster, and these are serious questions which raise important issues about the BBC’s coverage of the referendum – which must be fair, impartial and consistent to all participants, and at all times.
“The concern is that these decisions are being taken by the BBC’s political bosses in London in a high-handed, ad-hoc manner – and that is in the interests of no-one in Scotland.”
The row has ignited twitter with comments expressing a mixture of anger and puzzlement. One tweeter asked why it was fine for Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones to comment on the Ryder Cup, and the Rugby World Cup but the Scottish First Minister is prevented from speaking about the Six Nations.
Comments
2012-02-06 23:00
2012-02-05 16:47
2012-02-05 16:58
Given the “heightened tensions” the Beeb had bloody well better stick to their principles and declare all political leaders off limits until after 2014 then.
Not much chance of that. There will be a unionist at a televised sporting event long before the olympics.
Jack Straw for example has been on the BBC Radio 5 fairly recently calling for Blackburn’s Scottish manager Steve Kean
to be sacked.
2012-02-05 21:00
They’ll be going all out on spin to sink independence. They will lie, use quotes out of context, ingore and downplay good news and inflate the bad. Everything in their power will be used to attack. The only difference now is that they are both desperate and finding themselves under more scrutiny than normal, after having gotten away with their bias for many years.
The biased BBC and media are going to be the biggest obstacles to overcome and what everyone here needs to think about how they’re going to challange it in the debates and topics to come. They are afraid of losing the hearts and minds of Scotland.
2012-02-05 16:51
Just keep drawing attention to the BBCs bias and the people of Scotland will begin to see!
2012-02-05 18:09
2012-02-05 21:46
The word ‘rag’ doesn’t come into it :0)
As for Alex taking the BBC to task, not before bloody time I say. The more it’s done the more careful they will become and the more aware the electorate will be. VOTE YES
2012-02-05 23:57
Yes long overdue that the EBC were called out. They might have won the rugby match but i think they lost Scotland yesterday. Vote YES to Scottish independence.
2012-02-06 18:42
Lets hope this is the start of the battle with westminster’s mouthpiece the BBC!
Just keep drawing attention to the BBCs bias and the people of Scotland will begin to see!
Posted this on another thread, but this is my take on what AS is doing…
I think AS has ‘chosen his battle field well’ He has deliberately chosen to attack the London based BBC and has also accused them of overriding the wishes of the Scottish BBC’s sport people. He has therefore at one point looked like he is defending the Scottish BBC’s right to make decisions without London’s interference (chimes with Scots) and at the same time has highlighted to the voters on Scotland that their is decisions being made within the BBC that are highly politically motivated and are also designed to protect the British establishment.
I suspect that Alex has been aware of the BBC bias against the independence cause and he also understood why they were doing this. Like most on here he knew he needed to get this ‘Out there’ into the peoples consciousness, but had to chose the right opportunity.
He has used this situation to tick all the boxes and I even think he has chosen the term ‘gauleiter’ simply because it could be interpreted both ways and he knew the dutiful and not very bright Unionists would think he had boobed and shout from the rooftops about this being a nazi slur. he therefore got far more publicity and he will let this run for a few days then will come on TV and calmly reassure the people of Scotland that he meant it in the modern sense and will explain the behavior of the (London BBC) and how they ‘Dictated’ to the Scottish BBC. So in One swoop he will be suggesting that the anti independence bias at Scottish BBC is perhaps being directed from London !!!
The man is a genius and I’m so glad he is on our side. !!!
2012-02-05 16:55
My observation in recent times is that BBC bias is less blatant than that shown by Helen Liddel.The BBC has refined and developed their expertise in attacking the SNP government.There are some notable exceptions,such as Isobel Fraser,but BBC Scotland remains is predominately unbalanced in their presentation of Scottish politics.
2012-02-05 21:05
As you said, it’s been a problem long before now. The media here don’t seem to do what media are meant to do. Otherwise things like Willie MacRae’s mysterious death and the farce around it should never have been left to blow over and be buried. It happens with big events and small.
2012-02-05 17:43
Alex Salmond compares BBC boss with Nazi official
“The First Minister said Ric Bailey, the corporation’s chief political adviser in London, behaved like a “Gauleiter” by refusing to let him appear on a pundit show ahead of Saturday’s Calcutta Cup rugby match between England and Scotland.”
Now, did he actually use the word ‘Gauleiter’, or is this another fabrication by the Brit Nat press? Does anyone know?
2012-02-05 18:17
From that Telegraph article:
Alex Salmond compares BBC boss with Nazi official
“The First Minister said Ric Bailey, the corporation’s chief political adviser in London, behaved like a “Gauleiter” by refusing to let him appear on a pundit show ahead of Saturday’s Calcutta Cup rugby match between England and Scotland.”
Now, did he actually use the word ‘Gauleiter’, or is this another fabrication by the Brit Nat press? Does anyone know?
I believe he did use the word. “Gauleiter”. What the anti-independence media wilfully avoid acknowledging, however, is the modern sense of the term to refer to a person in a position of petty or local authority who behaves in an overbearing authoritarian manner.
2012-02-05 19:27
having said that however I think these sort of terms should be avoided. They just give ammunitin to the opposition and an excuse for them to ignore the meat of the argument and gnaw on the grisel instead. Even although Mr Salmond has been compared to every dictator that the opposition can think of it is better not to stoop to their level.
Go into the darkened room and rant then come out and smile quietly. That will annoy the life out of the opposition and be more effective than pejorative terms.
2012-02-05 21:07
wingsland.podgamer.com/…/
Probably not. Typical biased and two-faced London media. No comments allowed, I notice.
2012-02-05 22:04
From that Telegraph article:
Alex Salmond compares BBC boss with Nazi official
“The First Minister said Ric Bailey, the corporation’s chief political adviser in London, behaved like a “Gauleiter” by refusing to let him appear on a pundit show ahead of Saturday’s Calcutta Cup rugby match between England and Scotland.”
Now, did he actually use the word ‘Gauleiter’, or is this another fabrication by the Brit Nat press? Does anyone know?
The word means jobsworth.
2012-02-05 23:53
Definition of GAULEITER
1a : a district leader in Nazi Germany who served as a provincial governor
b : a subordinate political official resembling a Nazi gauleiter in function or in autocratic manner
2: a person with an arrogant overbearing outlook or manner
Take your pick.
2012-02-06 11:27
Take your pick.”
I’ll take the second option thanks.
2012-02-06 11:29
bbc.co2012-02-05 17:14
The BBC have singularly failed to accept and adapt to the changes which have happened in UK politics since the re-opening of the Scottish parliament and devolution across the UK. To this day, in the ‘National’ news bulletins, they have articles about changes within for example the NHS in England, yet never once do they say, ‘meanwhile, in Scotland a different policy of healthcare is being pursued’, or ‘The Welsh assembly are looking to pursue things differently’, and so on.
The focus is merely on English policies, with for example the English education secretary still to this day introduced by the BBC as THE education secretary, thereby giving an impression that the person has responsibility for the UK, all the while ignoring the fact that Education has been wholly devolved to Scotland and Wales for more than a decade.
In a similar fashion, they wilfully to this day obfuscate the issue of Free tuition fees for Scotland resident students, leading to mis reporting and confusion.
The BBC, as a state broadcaster, are a disgrace in ANY kind of democracy. The people of Scotland have quite rightly had enough of the BBC’s manipulation of news stories, like they repeatedly did with the Megrahi release. Most recently, within the last week, they have grossly misrepresented Scotland’s democratically elected First Minister on the Fred Goodwin matter – and they have still not issued and apology or a correction.
The BBC in Scotland is as biased as can be. It will simply NOT be possible for Scottish voters to make a clear choice come the referendum with the state broadcaster making such blatant attempts at gerrymandering the political affairs of Scotland.
As for the rugby, let’s be clear, Alex Salmond has been First minster of Scotland for five years. He is the voice of Scotland, and the national leader. It beggars belief that the BBC saw fit to treat such a high status elected official in such a disgraceful manner. The rugby was being held in the Capital of Scotland, and featured the Scottish national team, so of course the First Minister should have been there.
The BBC are showing themselves for what they really are, a mouthpiece of Downing street, and all that entails. They are no better than Pravda at the.height of the cold war in the communist USSR.
Let’s be clear, the BBC in London, have a vested interest in ensuring the people of Scotland do not vote in favour of independence.
This will not do. Time to get in touch with the Council of Europe.
2012-02-05 17:18
This will not do. Time to get in touch with the Council of Europe.
I agree they are breaking the CoE terms of remit for a national broadcaster.
2012-02-05 20:02
“BBC bias in favour of the Euro or any other obsession buzzing in the minds of the liberal upper-middle class is hard to study because those who perpetuate it are unmanly journalists. Instead of leaving the corporation to propagate their views openly as a politician, author or opinionated writer in the press, they insinuate and manipulate. They subvert BBC neutrality, while pretending to remain inside it, by rigging interviews, asking tough questions of their opponents and soft ones of their friends. BBC bias is a sly and slippery phenomenon, more of a badge of social allegiance than a political affiliation, which is hidden from view for most of the time.”
2012-02-05 22:53
2012-02-05 17:17
The great thing about this episode is that it has pushed BBC bias into the public consciousness. People who were otherwise unaware will type in “BBC bias” into their favourite search engine, and will be amazed at the 16,800,000 results in 0.32 seconds. They really have shot themselves in the foot this time.
Got to give credit to the Herald too for their front page.
2012-02-05 17:44
Ruth Davidson talks nonsense. Ingore her, just like the voters do.
I see you have the measure of the woman.
2012-02-05 21:20
Ruth Davidson talks nonsense. Ingore her, just like the voters do.
Who are we talking about?!
2012-02-06 17:03
2012-02-05 17:33
Ruth Davidson claimed that the FM was “insulting rugby fans”… how the hell does she come to that conclusion? Does she even know what he said?
The great thing about this episode is that it has pushed BBC bias into the public consciousness. People who were otherwise unaware will type in “BBC bias” into their favourite search engine, and will be amazed at the 16,800,000 results in 0.32 seconds. They really have shot themselves in the foot this time.
Got to give credit to the Herald too for their front page.
Just tried it and got….
About 71,700,000 results (0.20 seconds)
so it seems to be rising.
2012-02-05 21:20
It’s like someone is dropping these things in from another planet and they are trying their best to pretend to be people in their conversation and mannerisms but failing miserably. I’ve certainly never met someone in real life who talked and acted as she does all the time.
2012-02-06 11:39
and yes it was a good front page in the Herald yesterday
2012-02-05 17:19
The vast majority of the commentators, summarisers and presenters are English nationals and England supporters – to the extent that it feels like you have tuned in to the match coverage from the broadcaster of a foreign country. Not the Scottish national broadcaster, for which we are forced to pay tax on pain of imprisonment.
Fortunately, the SNP campaign plans for the independence referendum can include the power and reach of the new social media and the industry and expertise of the “cybernats” to ensure that the message still gets out, whatever the filters or distortions applied by the MSM and the state broadcaster.
Roll on the Albanach Spring.
2012-02-05 18:54
…… you have, 😉
2012-02-05 19:50
“- to the extent that it feels like you have tuned in to the match coverage from the broadcaster of a foreign country.”
…… you have, 😉
Indeed we have. There is more coverage of the USA Caucuses than Scottish news.
2012-02-05 21:24
2012-02-05 17:20
It is utterly ridiculous that Gagauzia has control of its own TV but Scotland doesn’t. Gagauzia is a self-governing scrap of territory with fewer people than Aberdeen, situated in the poorest corner of the poorest country in Europe – Moldova. Gagauz people are capable of running their own national telly, but Scots apparently aren’t.
The Catalans are talking about introducing a SIXTH channel of their own. They’ve already got their own 24 hour news channel. We get Reporting Scotland’s murrderr and fitba show and a UK “national” news that devotes much of its time to issues that don’t affect Scotland or Wales.
The Unionists need to be put on the spot over this issue. If devolved control of broadcasting is good enough for every other self-governing territory in Europe – why not Scotland?
2012-02-05 17:21
2012-02-05 17:46
Absolutely. Broadcasting should be under Scottish control, prior to the referendum.
Agreed!
2012-02-05 18:55
2012-02-05 19:52
also agree, but don’t see any chance of this, unless dictated from Europe, there’s no precedent I know of
That is why I have been on about The Council Of Europe. BTW: The UK government has already had CofE judgments against them. Strange that few British People even know the CofE exist.
2012-02-05 21:19
Quoting tartanpigsy:
also agree, but don’t see any chance of this, unless dictated from Europe, there’s no precedent I know of
That is why I have been on about The Council Of Europe. BTW: The UK government has already had CofE judgments against them. Strange that few British People even know the CofE exist.
The council of Europe, is as MOST people don’t know, quite separate and distinct from the EU or the European parliament.
It is a body set up at the end of the second world war, by none other than the Tory Prime Minister, Winston Churchill. The motive following the events that led to the war, was to ensure free and open democracy across Europe. That is its mandate. Make no mistake, they will need to get involved, as London and the propagandist BBC have now shown, they cannot be trusted in the run up to this independence referendum.
The principles upheld by the council of Europe apply in Scotland just as they do elsewhere in Europe.
2012-02-06 00:23
1 –
“Public service broadcasting is a vital element of democracy in Europe. Across the continent, its future is challenged by political and economic interests, by increasing competition from commercial media, by media concentrations and by financial difficulties.
Some post-communist countries have not yet even started the transition from state-controlled to public electronic media. In other countries, public service broadcasting is in crisis.”
2-
“There is political pressure on public service broadcasting in Western Europe too. The BBC was attacked by the British government over its coverage of the war in Iraq. In Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain, situations variously defined as “political clientelism”, “state paternalism” and partitocrazia have prevented the full emancipation of public service broadcasters from direct, “hands-on” political control. Manipulation of information under political influence led to the unprecedented sentencing of TVE for its coverage of the general strike in Spain in June 2002. The politisation of RAI caused by a unique division of the three Italian channels between the main political parties has been further aggravated by the current government.”
CoE report on the same 19/3/2009 –
“In its 1986 report, the Peacock Committee, which studied the financing of the public service broadcaster the BBC in the United Kingdom, set forth eight basic principles that should be observed in public service broadcasting: geographic universality; catering for all interests and tastes; catering for minorities; concern for national identity and community; detachment from vested interests and government; direct funding of at least one broadcasting system by all users; competition in good programming rather than for numbers of viewers; and having guidelines which liberate rather than restrict programme makers. These principles still apply.”
Aye??
2012-02-05 17:55
The interesting development is a big Catalan newspaper’s Catalan-language and Catalanist TV channel venture (8TV) in direct competition with the state company TV3, with private funding and very attractive to advertisers, which is going from strength to strength.
Also there’s 2 thoroughly professional Catalanist press titles Ara and Avui, (managing to hang on for now) as well as 1 local socialist rag, 1 prestige local conservative catalanist paper and the national (centrist) El País as well as a range of right-wing, national, almost all virulently anti-Catalan titles.
The leading Catalan radio company is private, RAC1, sister company of 8TV, but there’s I think more than 4 state radio channels in Catalan (all by definition Catalanist and variously independentist)
Not to mention at least 4 NewsNetScotland -type digital newspapers which are outspokenly Catalanist.
How do you manage in Scotland? It just doesn’t bear comparison.
2012-02-05 22:32
2012-02-05 17:31
Ric Bailey defended the BBC airing on radio racist comments by two BNP members concerning black players representing England.
What does that tell you about the British Broadcasting Corporation?
2012-02-05 19:55
2012-02-05 17:31
As people on here have posted many times before,the antics of the state broadcaster in Scotland would not have been out of place in former communist countries (including China).
Hope the message gets across loud and clear.
2012-02-05 18:20
2012-02-05 17:34
Still, I like the way the FM is not attacking BBC Scotland but the London lot.
If Iain McWhirter is anyone to go by in his evidence to the Scottish government media committee hearing recently, and I’m sure he is, BBC Scotland staff are under a lot of strain already with cost cutting and it’s going to get worse.
2012-02-05 17:40
“A Scottish Labour spokesperson accused Mr Salmond of wanting to get his face on TV” – dear god, what an upstart the FM of Scotland is!
The “Scottish Labour spokesperson” is, of course, an idiot. Alex Salmond is the First Minister. If access to the media is problematic then this is further evidence of serious problems with the media, not Mr Salmond.
2012-02-05 19:42
2012-02-06 17:07
Just saying…
2012-02-05 18:42
2012-02-05 17:51
This suggests that BBC Political editorial policy is not devolved to Scotland. Maybe then it was not Daniel Maxwell who was behind the unique comments ban for Scotland. I think the Scottish Government should throw this into the mix when speaking to Patten.
I missed Andrew Marr today. I bet he did not show the front page of the Herald.
2012-02-05 17:57
Just been having some fun with this bunch of muppets, probably be moderated out though.
2012-02-05 20:56
Just been having some fun with this bunch of muppets, probably be moderated out though.
Just been over and given them a rael bit of sheer hell. Even if they do not post it they have to read it before they do so and they are the ones who posted the daft stuff.
2012-02-05 17:57
2012-02-06 00:09
Always remember being a bit confused as to why Gerry Adams was dubbed in the news.
If not Nigel, perhaps Billy Connolly?
2012-02-06 00:12
Before anyone says anything…
😉
2012-02-05 17:57
In 2012 the BBC censors the SNP’s leader claiming impartiality.
2012-02-05 18:00
A Gerry Adams type voice over.where the elected leaders voice will not be allowed to be heard,instead his words spoken by an actor….its low I know,but there is no limit to how low they will go.
Im surprised the toxic twins in the unelected chamber have not been pressing for exactly that.
2012-02-05 18:01
2012-02-05 18:06
Way to go Alex! It’s good to see Salmond at last call it as it is in regards to the EBC. Liking it. I always guessed the more these Unionist propagandist organisations got more panicky and desperate the more gaping holes they would leave at the back leaving them to score own goals. The EBC has been rumbled. The sooner we are rid of them the better Scotland will breathe.
2012-02-05 18:11
Apparently Ken Mcquarrie knew nothing about it. Aye and a coo flew past!
2012-02-05 18:17
There has to be someone in the BBC who is not happy and could leak some information.
2012-02-05 18:16
It is the BBC itself which is fomenting dissent and heightening tensions.
2012-02-05 18:23
2012-02-05 21:06
2012-02-05 18:25
Eh? I think it’s clear who the bully-boys are here and it’s not Alex Salmond.
O/T
Saw this on the front page of the Sunday Times today: Poll – Union On a Knife Edge
Didn’t have time to read it and can’t find it online. Anyone got any info on this?
2012-02-05 18:35
2012-02-05 18:51
The Scottish National has welcomed the findings of the Panelbase poll for the Sunday Times and Real Radio Scotland – which puts support for independence at 47 per cent, compared to 53 per cent opposition – and finds that support for the SNP is at a high of 50 per cent. An Ipsos MORI poll last week put SNP support at 49 per cent.
The poll puts SNP support at 50 per cent in the constituency vote for the Scottish Parliament, compared to 29 per cent for Labour, and 14 per cent for the Tories.
Compared to last year’s election, SNP support is up 5 points, and Labour are down 3 points. SNP seats at Holyrood would increase from 69 to 71, while the Lib Dems would slump from 5 to 3.
In terms of net satisfaction ratings, this is the first poll to ask about attitudes towards all Holyrood and Westminster leaders – and finds that Alex Salmond’s ratings are hugely positive, and he is the only leader north or south of the Border with a positive figure:
Alex Salmond: +17%David Cameron: -43%Ed Miliband: -41%Nick Clegg: -54%Johann Lamont: -18%Ruth Davidson: -32%Willie Rennie: -27%
The poll also finds that people are enthusiastic about the positive impact independence would have on Scotland’s national life.
More than twice as many people (42%) think that an independent Scotland would be good for the nation’s health than think it would be bad (17%); and they are also very positive about education (47% compared with 19%). Seven times as many (64%) say independence would have a positive effect on Scottish culture than a negative effect (9%), and three times as many (59%) say it would be good for Scottish confidence rather than bad (19%).
Exactly half of Scots believe that independence would be positive for the environment while 15% think the opposite, and more than a quarter (27%) say it would cut crime while 17% think it could rise.
On the question of whether people think they would be at least £500 better off with independence, 72 per cent think they would be better off or it would make little difference (18% and 54% respectively), while only 28 per cent think they would be worse off.
When the three constitutional options are asked alongside each other, independence is the most popular:
Independence: 37%Status quo: 33%Devo-max: 30%
2012-02-05 18:28
The First minister would have got more public exposure if he had attended the match as a supporter.
As to impartiality, pejorative remarks, separation and separatists all perfectly acceptable in the context of this debate.
How about independence, what is the definition the author offers on that equally emotive word?
2012-02-05 18:45
Are you saying you really don’t know what the SNP mean by independence? Or are you just being thick?
2012-02-05 18:52
You know full well that the term ‘seperatist’ is highly charged and associated with extremism. Please stop playing coy exel – say what you really mean. ?
I think he meant to say “federalist” but he forgot what it meant and it has been so long since it was true, he forgot how to spell it too.
2012-02-05 18:49
Much ado about nothing.
!The First minister would have got more public exposure if he had attended the match as a supporter.”
But was that not exactly what he was proposing to do. After all a commitment to not talk about politics had been given? (An email from BBC TV sport editor Carl Hicks had confirmed the booking after the BBC had been reassured that Mr Salmond would not make any mention of politics.)
2012-02-05 19:03
Much ado about nothing.
It says much about you that you can be so blasé about such blatant bias on the part of the BBC. And nothing very flattering.
But, if I recall correctly, you profess to wear the fully reversible coat of the Liberal Democrat. So the language of principle will surely be a foreign tongue to you. The idea of impartiality in public service broadcasting just one more principle to be sacrificed on the altar of political expediency.
2012-02-05 19:05
“How about independence, what is the definition the author offers on that equally emotive word?”
‘ll go with this …
en.wikipedia.org/…/…
Independence is a condition of a nation, country, or state in which its residents and population, or some portion thereof, exercise self-government, and usually sovereignty, over its territory.
Attainment of independence should not be confused with revolution, which typically refers to the violent overthrow of a ruling authority. While some revolutions seek and achieve national independence, others aim only to redistribute power — with or without an element of emancipation, such as in democratization — within a state, which as such may remain unaltered. Furthermore, some countries were granted independence without any revolutionary acts. The Russian October Revolution, for example, was not intended to seek national independence; the United States Revolutionary War, however, was.
you next?
2012-02-05 22:43
2012-02-05 21:19
How about independence, what is the definition the author offers on that equally emotive word?
Here is a cut and paste from a hard disk based Concise Oxford Dictionary.
—-
separate adj., n., & v.
adj. // (often foll. by from) forming a unit that is or may be regarded as apart or by itself; physically disconnected, distinct, or individual (living in separate rooms; the two questions are essentially separate).
n. //
1 (in pl.) separate articles of clothing suitable for wearing together in various combinations.
2 an offprint.
v. //
1 tr. make separate, sever, disunite.
2 tr. prevent union or contact of.
3 intr. go different ways, disperse.
4 intr. cease to live together as a married couple.
5 intr. (foll. by from) secede.
6 tr. a divide or sort (milk, ore, fruit, light, etc.) into constituent parts or sizes. b (often foll. by out) extract or remove (an ingredient, waste product, etc.) by such a process for use or rejection.
7 tr. US discharge, dismiss.
—-
independent / adj. & n.
adj.
1 a (often foll. by of) not depending on authority or control. b self-governing.
2 a not depending on another person for one’s opinion or livelihood. b (of income or resources) making it unnecessary to earn one’s living.
3 unwilling to be under an obligation to others.
4 Polit. not belonging to or supported by a party.
5 not depending on something else for its validity, efficiency, value, etc. (independent proof).
6 (of broadcasting, a school, etc.) not supported by public funds.
7 (Independent) hist. Congregational.
n.
1 a person who is politically independent.
2 (Independent) hist. a Congregationali st.
independently adv
—-
The basic idea is that separate is to physically break apart.
Independent is to NOT be under another’s control.
Another thing to note is that you are either independent or you are not. Anything less is dependent upon another.
2012-02-05 23:09
In the states at the moment, their is clear evidence that the media is part of rigged elections. The media being owned by the same interests as arms companies etc. Heck, Goldman Sachs are the main sponsor of both Obama and Romney… some choice, but the media gloss this and create the illusion of choice as the media are an important part of the control over the American people. It is bad here, the SKY coverage of the American elections follows Rupert Murdochs stateside agenda and the BBC just regurgitate AP press releases.
Media propaganda is extremely powerful and very dangerous… and woe betide those who let it go unchecked… www.youtube.com/…/
2012-02-05 18:28
The absolute bare minimum he should be insisting on is parity on ALL political programmes, i.e. when it specifically concerns the independence referendum then one pro and one anti, whether that means an SNP MSP or Margot MacDonald or whatever, but definitely NOT the three against one we’ve become far too accustomed to. If they still want to go down that road then it should be time about with the questions, not three opportunities for the anti side for every pro one.
2012-02-05 18:37
When the main opposition political parties in Scotland threw their weight behind “not an inch further” as far as enhanced powers for our parliament they forfeited the right to having specific party policies.
So they need to elect a spokesperson for their united policy (we would get very bored hearing the same old same old from three apparently different parties).
2012-02-05 18:38
Now it is being applied to Scotland – UK relations ?
Has this London based political advisor shown us the future ?
2012-02-05 18:38
2012-02-05 18:48
2012-02-05 22:47
2012-02-05 18:44
it will influence how they proceed….
2012-02-05 19:05
o/t slightly, went up to my local garage at lunchtime, Sunday Herald was sold out, usually a few copies there, so i presume the headline caught the attention of people, which can only be good, be interesting to see how their sales were compared to other Sundays,
it will influence how they proceed….
The Sunday Herald today is indeed interesting reading. a rather shocking article about Dalgety Bay. In short, if the MOD dont buck up thier ideas, and soon, then SEPA “will formally designate the bay as Britain’s firstradioactiv ely contaminated land”!!
Also they will be having a referendum debate with Ian McWhirter hosting on March 10th, tickets £6
2012-02-05 18:49
2012-02-05 18:52
For instance they very often have an SNP piece on the news with an SNP spokesperson. This is then followed by an attack on the Scottish Government by some unionist,very often on an issue unrelated to the previous SNP piece. No SNP or Scottish Government spokesperson is called to refute or comment on the destructive piece. The normal protocol in broadcasting is when Government gets criticism the Government spokesperson is called on to give final comment.
Just watch it on BBC UK news. If Millibean is on to criticise ConDem Government policy a ConDen spokesperson is on after it to comment.
They managed last week to promote the opinions of Bleak Midwinter last week, describing him as an economic expert which he is not, (he is a Professor of Politics) and never mentioning he was elected as a Labour councillor in the past.
2012-02-05 19:37
2012-02-05 18:52
“heightened tensions” over independence
then I hope that all high profile Lib-Dem, Labour and Conservative politicians are also either banned from appearing in non-political shows or blocked from broadcast in Scotland because otherwise it would be blatant bias.
2012-02-05 18:52
Should he not be required to enlarge on that?
2012-02-05 19:02
I find Ric Bailey’s use of the words ‘heightened tension’ very interesting.
Should he not be required to enlarge on that?
I fully expect Angus Robertson to bring this up at PMQ this week 🙂
2012-02-05 19:06
I find Ric Bailey’s use of the words ‘heightened tension’ very interesting.
Should he not be required to enlarge on that?
Utterly inflammatory language. Designed to make the point that the unionists are in a fight.
2012-02-05 19:23
2012-02-05 19:38
2012-02-05 23:52
Tanks at the border maybe?
Trust me, I’ll be the first to know on that score. I’ll send you warning!
2012-02-05 19:11
2012-02-05 19:27
I think there could be an agenda to get Salmond into a spat with the BBC.- then ‘ultimately’ rubbish his claims. This would get the ‘bias challenge’ out of the way as we head to 2014
I think Salmond should let BBC’s actions speak for themselves, and keep ‘very cool’ on this.
It is enough that the public begin to awaken to the exploits of the BBC- but it would not be in our interest for Salmond to enter this debate’ too deeply’.
That is for others. Not Salmond himself.
2012-02-05 19:38
I think Salmond should let BBC’s actions speak for themselves, and keep ‘very cool’ on this.
Normally I would tend to agree with you. But on this occasion the BBC’s behaviour was so “bonkers” that it would have seemed odd if the First Minister had not commented.
2012-02-05 20:11
Quoting millie:
I think Salmond should let BBC’s actions speak for themselves, and keep ‘very cool’ on this.
Normally I would tend to agree with you. But on this occasion the BBC’s behaviour was so “bonkers” that it would have seemed odd if the First Minister had not commented.
I tend to agree with you on this # Electric Hermit this is now out and open and not before time also it brings into sharper focus the fact of the visit of Mr Patten to Hollyrood .
2012-02-05 22:24
I agree, I think the First Minister had to comment on this to make it public knowledge. But having seen the way the media works, and spins and manipulates, I think it is now up to ‘others’ to ‘back’ his case.
This will give the perceived bias more credibility, and give the MSM less to spin on.
The fact that Ms Davidson has already begun the ‘Salmond = bully’ comments, indicates how the argument will evolve in MSM.
2012-02-05 19:53
2012-02-05 21:40
Ever the cynic.
That is for others. Not Salmond himself.
That is the reason I have been advocating involving the Council of Europe. They deal in, democracy, elections, referenda, Government Propaganda, Broadcasting and many many more and including Human Rights. Every one of which is being abused by the United Kingdom just now. I suspect that the way to involve them is best done by individuals rather than an official devolved government involvement. After all it is we, the sovereign people of Scotland, who are suffering these interferances in our rights human and otherwise.
2012-02-05 22:29
Let the BBC discredit itself.
2012-02-06 00:46
Yes, I think you are right. Things are being observed internationally just now, and Alex Salmond getting into a major spat with the BBC will not help.
Let the BBC discredit itself.
The fact that Mr Salmond brushed off the nonsensical utterances from Mr Paxman the other week shows that he is not overeacting /looking for a fight with the bbc. I think it only correct that these things are raised for the awareness of the general public. When Mr Patten comes to Scotland he, perhaps, can explain the decision/s currently being taken by the bbc with regard to what is happening in Scotland at this time.
2012-02-06 01:52
I do think, due to the manipulation and distortion within reporting in the mainstream media that in this instance anything he now says (about this issue) will be misquoted and distorted, and in the end the BBC will come out ‘unscathed’. That is my big fear.
Salmond will become the headline, not the BBC bias.
2012-02-06 08:31
2012-02-05 19:41
2012-02-05 21:48
2012-02-06 00:54
2012-02-05 19:48
newsnetscotland.com/…/…
But the SNP need to proceed with caution as regards reacting against this, given that the BBC is, however surreally, still largely viewed as impartial. It would be very easy for the forces of reaction and their army of media allies to paint the SNP as shooting the messenger, attacking a respected British institution etc.
But censoring Eck in this way represents a tactical miscalculation on their part and provides an excellent opportunity for the SNP to highlight the broader failings of the BBC to provide anything resembling impartial political coverage.
Hopefully the SNP will take this opportunity. The importance of doing everything possible to curtail the BBC’s pronounced anti-independence bias in good time for the referendum can’t be over-estimated.
2012-02-05 19:53
The BBC is institutionally anti-Scottish
That is it in a nutshell.
Since its foundation it has ever been the mouthpiece of perfidious Albion.
What next? Our First Minister to be seen but not heard?
I seem to recall that the BBC has a history
on that procedure.
2012-02-05 22:11
It is headed, “Swinney defends EU nationals vote”. Swinney explained that the same rules would apply as applied in the last Scottish Parliament Election.
However, they then go on to say, “That would mean about 60,000 EU nationals living in Scotland would be eligible to vote”. That is bad enough reporting, (more on that later). But they then go on to say, “But hundreds of thousands of Scots who are not living in the country would not get a vote under the plans”.
So just let’s see how they have distorted the facts. In fact there are another 5 plus million EU nationals living in Scotland. We are all members of the EU, are we not?
Why would Scots NOT living in Scotland be eligible to vote is quite plain – they are not Scottish residents.
The plain fact is that Scotlands Government is charged with running Scotland not just Scots born people. I had my first wifes sister living in our home when she had twins. She had never set foot in Scotland before that visit, her husband was from Portsmouth and they went home soon after but those twins were Scots born.
The people the SNP always talks about are, “The People of Scotland”, and they make it very clear that includes all ethnic peoples, all races and even the English people who have made their homes in Scotland. Furthermore, the three main dependency Britnat parties MSM and BBC know this full well.
2012-02-05 22:24
2012-02-06 00:49
I also accept that I cannot vote for MPs in Durham or councillors in Bedfordshire.
Am I missing something here? Or is it that I am listening to Unionist lies yet again?
2012-02-05 20:05
association with the BBC. True enough,
She was an economics journalist for the Beeb.
(BA Economics Strathclyde Uni).
Some interesting stuff on Wiki-
Working as Robert Maxwell’s aide she famously followed him on one occasion in to a Gents’ toilet while being recorded by a TV crew, she was also the public affairs director of Maxwell’s Scottish Daily Record.
After Maxwell’s disgrace she tried to distance herself from him claiming that she had never worked for Maxwell.
Now that is very Labour!
2012-02-05 22:08
2012-02-05 20:18
2012-02-05 20:28
telegraph.co.uk/…/…
2012-02-05 20:33
‘Democracy the way we’d like it’, maybe?
Encouraging to see the Herald making this a headline ( not a cheep on Not Reporting Scotland tonight.) I wonder if they’re beginning to realise they’ve been alienating their readership?
2012-02-05 20:33
I, like other commenters above, wonder if this rudeness by the bbc is an attempt to create some drummed up ‘scandal’ re AS, I wouldnt put anyhting past them. At the same time, I am very glad the bias has been brought out to the public. I guess it is up to us now to use humour and general discussion to bring up the ongoing bias in a subtle and non-aggressive way to keep it in folks’minds till it (the bias) becomes one of these items of social knowledge that everyone is aware of. Just my humble thoughts on the matter
2012-02-05 20:41
2012-02-05 20:56
Anybody willing to set up a radio station on Rockall?
2012-02-05 22:44
Anybody willing to set up a radio station on Rockall?
Ever seen the place? You would be lucky to even hang on to it on a fairly mild breezy day. The top is more under the waves than above them?
2012-02-05 20:57
Reson for asking, usually at these big sporting events, the programme director love to pick out well known people or leaders in the stadium.Strangely this doesnt seem to have been done or was avoided
2012-02-05 21:01
We know that the Director of BBC Scotland Ken MacQuarrie was not informed of Bailey’s decision to censor Alex Salmond even though Bailey did claim that he did.
So Ric Bailey ignored BBC guidelines and lied about it. That makes his position untenable.
2012-02-05 21:06
2012-02-05 22:33
Is Scotland, “a nation”?
Is England, “a Nation”?
Is Wales, “a nation”?
Is N.Ireland, “a Nation”?
IS THE UNITED KINGDOM A NATION”?
As they actually all are, is this numptie attempting to keep ALL politics out of broadcasting?
What this statement highlights is that this numptie is institutionalis ed racist.
2012-02-06 19:11
The United Kingdom is not a nation, It’s a state.
2012-02-05 21:06
Quote:
“BBC Scotland, needless to say, weren’t consulted at all. They were just treated as they are normally treated.”
liked this remark and doesn’t it have echoes of another group of loyal office staff working for London and the union?
BBC Scotland and “Scottish” Labour, two British branch offices afraid of being promoted above their station. When big decisions are made neither of them even get consulted.
2012-02-05 21:46
How many times have we seen debates on independence or Scottish issues that had only the unionist parties (usually Labour, Tory, Lib Dem) present? Often when they bother to have some independance representation to pretend to be balanced it will be one SNP member who will get a tiny wee three or four minute phone or on-screen in from Aberdeen to their London studio with the sneering London Broadcasting Corp. host before he’s told cheers and goodbye and then they spend the rest of the show talking to several unionists in the studio and rubbish everything he says and give him no chance to counter it as he has been cut off. Debates are regularly held with similarly ridiculous biased leanings from the London Broadcasting Corporation. They are making the independance supporters have to fight with gloves on and one hand tied behind their backs when it comes to the media.
2012-02-05 21:55
In a single action they have justified what everyone one of us have being bleating on about for the past 5 years.
Every discussion we’ve had, every debate in the pub, every chat at work has all included the bias of the bbc.
And, on one chilly, bright winter Saturday afternoon in February they laid bare exactly every single word we have said. Every newstand throughout the Country had the Sunday Herald front page stand out- ahead of every other headline, with a single word CENSORED.
You’ve really got to hand it to them, they’ve saved us so much time and energy by doing the job for us.
SNP membership up, Yes vote up, trust in the bbc down.
Saor Alba
2012-02-05 22:18
2012-02-05 22:29
Some years ago I read a thoughtful piece regarding the process of Scotland’s cultural assimilation with her larger neighbour England.
(“Craig Beveridge, Ronald Turnbull, The Eclipse of Scottish Culture. Inferiorism and the Intellectuals, Edinburgh: Polygon, 1989.”)
The chapter relating to how externally imposed perceptions of Scotland (and its people) have evolved and then subsequently become part of an accepted (but unchallenged) “narrative” is fascinating.
If you believe that Scotland should be an independent country, I would recommend that you take some time to source this book. Although academic in nature, the concepts within are clearly explained and easily understood.
2012-02-05 22:50
A GOOD BLOG ON THE BBC INFECTION:
gaiusmarcellus.blogspot.com/…/…
A list of BBC-Labour people who control our information
Here we have evidence of the stitch up by Labour and the BBC and how they have controlled the information we are allowed to hear.
The effect of the presentation of news by the BBC is now so awesome that it now completely dominates the outcomes of elections.
To pretend that the BBC does not have a political effect is ludicrous.
Labour supporters have been at the very heart of the BBC holding key political roles. These people have been open and declared political party activists before, after and even during their BBC service.
For the last 15 years or so, the BBC has had a declared Labour supporter/donor as either Chairman or Director General – or both.
The two key people in charge of the BBC’s strategic direction in the run up to Labour’s 1997 election victory have had VERY close links with Brown and Blair.
Ed Richards worked for Gordon Brown and was later to become BBC Controller of Corporate Strategy, and is now boss of OFCOM
Bill Bush was Head of Political Research and Analysis at the BBC. He then became “Head of Research” for Tony Blair. He later took a position as Special Adviser to New Labour culture minister Tessa Jowell. As Minister for Culture, Media and Sport, Jowell and Bush were responsible for Government policy towards the BBC including renegotiating the licence fee.
READ MORE:
gaiusmarcellus.blogspot.com/…/…
2012-02-05 22:58
………Slightly O/T The BBC are also afraid of English identity and this evening’s TV news coverage referred to snow and ice disruption in “most of Britain” when there was no such problems in Scotland.
2012-02-05 22:59
Now they have a legitimate ‘excuse’ to bring up EVERYTHING with Patton. Not that I regard him at all, but this will have to be reported in the MSM.
Given the Heralds apparent Damascene conversion, perhaps they will carry the story in full after the event on Thursday?
Together with the poll results this week has been a good one, and another small step to Independence.
2012-02-05 23:54
This is the first big mistake the BBC has made, and wisely the SNP have kept their council till now. They do not need to jump at everything, and this is the reason. Crying ‘wolf’ (even if the SNP complaint is justified, the MSM fire-storm opposing it would appear to be crying wolf) or ‘grumbling’ is negative and perceived as such. By biding their time, they have sucked the BeeB into a mistake.
Now they have a legitimate ‘excuse’ to bring up EVERYTHING with Patton. Not that I regard him at all, but this will have to be reported in the MSM.
Given the Heralds apparent Damascene conversion, perhaps they will carry the story in full after the event on Thursday?
Together with the poll results this week has been a good one, and another small step to Independence.
I agree. For AS or the SNP to start moaning to the Bbc about every infringement of impartiality will only bring complaints from the anti-independence brigade of a one party state trying to influence the news output. it is much better this way to snare some fool who has tried to “do the best thing” for higher authorities off his own back (and by that I mean act against the SNP as instructed by those higher up exerting influence) and end up in this mess of their own doing than any nationalist complaint. Now AS can justifiably suggest that “auntie” might not be all sweetness and light. This can’t be done forcefully by the ScottishGovernm ent. The forcefully complaint has to come from us, the punter.
2012-02-05 23:05
The words “heightened tensions” were used last week by the BBC news announcer to describe the aftermath of a series of shooting incident in Syria.
Now some BBC idiot in London is applying this SAME description to Scottish-UK relationships and using it as an excuse to ban the First Minister from discussing a rugby game.
You couldn’t make this stuff up.
2012-02-05 23:25
1. The BBC said it had an obligation “to ensure it achieves due impartiality across all its output.
2. ……..it was decided that it would be inappropriate to give undue prominence at the moment to any single political leader….
Both quotes from today’s Sunday Herald.
Well, if these are the criteria in this period, “Given the nature of political debate around Scotland’s future” then we just have to sit back and wait for the BBC to go ahead and break its own prescriptive rules.
Let’s get ready for when the BBC does not observe its own asserted guidelines and let’s blast them.
In passing, note the habitual use of the passive voice “it was decided”, thus avoiding giving us, the feepayers, the information as to WHO decided. This is normal BBC junk linguistic manipulation to avoid giving the people the information about WHO is behind these idiotic decisions.
2012-02-06 11:40
“It is unknown” sounds so much better that “we don’t know” or “we haven’t tried to find out”, the typical language of the lazy “journalist”. They know most people will swallow “it’s not clear” when they really mean “we haven’t a clue”.
2012-02-05 23:35
2012-02-06 00:14
World English Dictionary
Gauleiter (ˈɡaʊˌlaɪtə)
— n
1. a provincial governor in Germany under Hitler
2. informal ( sometimes not capital ) a person in a position of petty or local authority who behaves in an overbearing authoritarian manner
[from German, from Gau district + Leiter leader ]
2012-02-06 11:49
2012-02-06 19:02
I think the FM has carefully chosen the subject matter for FMQ this week, whether the opposition want it or not. The scripts for the opposition “questions” and follow-ups are in prep. The FM will provide a lesson in history, language and the responsibilitie s of the bbc.
Spot on farrochie…just to re-post:
I think AS has ‘chosen his battle field well’ He has deliberately chosen to attack the London based BBC and has also accused them of overriding the wishes of the Scottish BBC’s sport people. He has therefore at one point looked like he is defending the Scottish BBC’s right to make decisions without London’s interference (chimes with Scots) and at the same time has highlighted to the voters on Scotland that their is decisions being made within the BBC that are highly politically motivated and are also designed to protect the British establishment.
I suspect that Alex has been aware of the BBC bias against the independence cause and he also understood why they were doing this. Like most on here he knew he needed to get this ‘Out there’ into the peoples consciousness, but had to chose the right opportunity.
He has used this situation to tick all the boxes and I even think he has chosen the term ‘gauleiter’ simply because it could be interpreted both ways and he knew the dutiful and not very bright Unionists would think he had boobed and shout from the rooftops about this being a nazi slur. he therefore got far more publicity and he will let this run for a few days then will come on TV and calmly reassure the people of Scotland that he meant it in the modern sense and will explain the behavior of the (London BBC) and how they ‘Dictated’ to the Scottish BBC. So in One swoop he will be suggesting that the anti independence bias at Scottish BBC is perhaps being directed from London !!!
The man is a genius and I’m so glad he is on our side. !!!
2012-02-06 00:03
2012-02-06 00:08
“You know full well that the term ‘separatist’ is highly charged and associated with extremism. Please stop playing coy exel – say what you really mean.”
Separatist: “A person who supports the SEPARATION of a particular group of people from a larger body.
Separation: “The action or state of moving or being moved apart.
Secession: “(derived from the Latin term secessio) is the act of withdrawing from an organization, union, or especially a political entity. Threats of secession also can be a strategy for achieving more limited goals.
Scottish Independence is the political ambition of some political parties, advocacy groups and individuals for Scotland to secede from the Union and become a sovereign state, separate from England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
2012-02-06 00:14
I really dont know what serious point you are trying to make, and you are really in danger of becoming a pedant. However, to engage you on 2 specific points:
Separation: Scotland isn’t going anywhere
Secession: Scotland won’t secede from the Union – the Union will be dissolved. There will be no Union to have seceded from. You fatally misunderstand the constitutional make-up of the United Kingdom.
Instead of trying to make some weird point about semantics why not try to make a positive case for the Union. We’d all love to hear it. Really.
2012-02-06 00:21
You start to discuss the term “seperatists” and its meaning, obviously taken from the dictionary but then you go on to say ” Scottish Independence is the ….” why did’nt you say – Scottish Separation.
Just looked up Independence in the British/English dictionary –
Definition
• freedom from being governed or ruled by another country
Mexico gained its independence from Spain in l821.
• the ability to live your life without being helped or influenced by other people
It’s important that parents should allow their children some independence.
Need to make up your mind
2012-02-06 00:35
The best response is to re-focus on the key topic, ignoring the silly technicalities.
2012-02-06 19:11
doe 2012-02-05 17:45
“You know full well that the term ‘separatist’ is highly charged and associated with extremism. Please stop playing coy exel – say what you really mean.”
Separatist: “A person who supports the SEPARATION of a particular group of people from a larger body.
Separation: “The action or state of moving or being moved apart.
Secession: “(derived from the Latin term secessio) is the act of withdrawing from an organization, union, or especially a political entity. Threats of secession also can be a strategy for achieving more limited goals.
Scottish Independence is the political ambition of some political parties, advocacy groups and individuals for Scotland to secede from the Union and become a sovereign state, separate from England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
personal attack on another poster removed – NNS Mod Team
We are talking about modern usage of language not the definition of the word.
Language is fluid and if a word becomes associated with an action such as in the case of ‘Separatists’ and ‘Terrorism’ then using the word ‘Separatist’ to describe a movement will cause the other related word ‘Terrorism’ to be associated with this movement.
In recent history a group who are called ‘Basque Separatists’ engaged in a ‘terrorist campaign in Spain. You like all unionists are well aware of this and this is why every single Unionist politician uses the term ‘Separatism’ to describe ‘Independence’
It is as pathetic as it is dishonest, so please do not insult our intelligence by coming on hear and pretending you believe the word separatist is a reasonable way to describe the Independence movement.
2012-02-06 00:34
“Swinney defends EU nationals vote”
This is a complete non story, being hyped by the BBC. Essentially the people who will be allowed to vote in the referendum are the same as those who can vote in Scottish parliamentary elections, this includes people who live in Scotland, regardless of where they were born.
This has NEVER been criticised by ANY politicians before. Indeed, if the Scottish Government said that people who live in Scotland can vote, except those born outside the UK, they would be guilty of racism. Is that what Labour, the Tories and the BBC want??
It is a silly story, and ridiculous that a member of the Scottish Government had to go on TV to defend it from these nonsensical accusations.
The BBC is completely out of control, and is no longer working as an unbiased broadcaster should.
2012-02-06 00:37
2012-02-06 00:44
The BBC and the unionists in London AND Scotland are getting more desperate by the day, as polls show increasing support for the restoration of Scottish independence.
2012-02-06 19:16
It seems like the BBC are keen to carry on as before, with their main news story online for Scotland headlined as follows;
“Swinney defends EU nationals vote”
This is a complete non story, being hyped by the BBC. Essentially the people who will be allowed to vote in the referendum are the same as those who can vote in Scottish parliamentary elections, this includes people who live in Scotland, regardless of where they were born.
This has NEVER been criticised by ANY politicians before. Indeed, if the Scottish Government said that people who live in Scotland can vote, except those born outside the UK, they would be guilty of racism. Is that what Labour, the Tories and the BBC want??
It is a silly story, and ridiculous that a member of the Scottish Government had to go on TV to defend it from these nonsensical accusations.
The BBC is completely out of control, and is no longer working as an unbiased broadcaster should.
I agree my friend, but Alex knew this would happen so used the word ‘gaultierer’ to stir up some silly unionists and generate a lot of publicity. believe me the BBC are embarrassed by all of this, as they know they have fallen head long into a deep ditch of their own making.
2012-02-06 00:50
Mar sin leibh
2012-02-06 00:52
They are steadily being reduced to the support of the feart and the thick
2012-02-06 01:44
The “EU Nationals” story is, as usual, appealing to the lowest commom denominator which is where their target audience is. This is what the unionists and the BBC routinely do – they aim their efforts at their remaining audience of half wits and some racists thrown in as well.
They are steadily being reduced to the support of the feart and the thick
“All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. Thus its purely intellectual level will have to be that of the lowest mental common denominator among the public it is desired to reach. When there is question of bringing a whole nation within the circle of its influence, as happens in the case of war propaganda, then too much attention cannot be paid to the necessity of avoiding a high level, which presupposes a relatively high degree of intelligence among the public.
The more modest the scientific tenor of this propaganda and the more it is addressed exclusively to public sentiment, the more decisive will be its success. This is the best test of the value of a propaganda, and not the approbation of a small group of intellectuals or artistic people.
The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses. That this is not understood by those among us whose wits are supposed to have been sharpened to the highest pitch is only another proof of their vanity or mental inertia.
Once we have understood how necessary it is to concentrate the persuasive forces of propaganda on the broad masses of the people, the following lessons result therefrom:
That it is a mistake to organize the direct propaganda as if it were a manifold system of scientific instruction.
The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. If this principle be forgotten and if an attempt be made to be abstract and general, the propaganda will turn out ineffective; for the public will not be able to digest or retain what is offered to them in this way. Therefore, the greater the scope of the message that has to be presented, the more necessary it is for the propaganda to discover that plan of action which is psychologically the most efficient”
Mein Kampf – Volume I, Chapter VI
2012-02-06 02:37
“Exel
I really dont know what serious point you are trying to make, and you are really in danger of becoming a pedant. However, to engage you on 2 specific points:
Separation: Scotland isn’t going anywhere.”
I do not doubt your assertion that Scotland is not going anywhere, physically, but moving apart is not necessarily a physical action, is it?
“Secession: Scotland won’t secede from the Union – the Union will be dissolved. There will be no Union to have seceded from. You fatally misunderstand the constitutional make-up of the United Kingdom.”
How pray will this dissolution of the union be achieved?
I would also be very interested in your interpretation of the constitutional make-up of the United Kingdom
“Instead of trying to make some weird point about semantics why not try to make a positive case for the Union. We’d all love to hear it. Really.”
I am not making a point for or against the union. I pointed out that the language used in the article did not constitute bias or impartiality of the BBC.
2012-02-06 12:20
2012-02-06 15:07
I am not making a point for or against the union. I pointed out that the language used in the article did not constitute bias or impartiality of the BBC.
You’re right there – you’re not making any point at all. You’re playing semantics and being a pedant. I for one am not playing that game with you anymore.
If you can’t see that pejorative language from either side has no place in the reporting of our public service broadcaster, which is supposed to be impartial, neutral and completely without bias, then quite frankly there is no point discussing anything at all with you.
Anent your additional questions, they have been answered at length ad nauseum on other threads. Try to see the principles and the big picture rather than diverting and disrupting with meaningless pedantry.
2012-02-06 03:00
2012-02-06 05:08
2012-02-06 14:24
Must do better SNP.
2012-02-06 04:11
2012-02-06 14:50
Oh no I’m becoming paranoid….
2012-02-06 16:42
The first of my posts was held up here for moderation but subsequently I have been allowed to post. I’ve had an odd successful posting on BBC sites but I’ve never managed to post on the Herald.
2012-02-06 04:32
There will be lots of opportunities for Boris Johnson, David Cameron and Lord Coe to be political on the Narrow-minded nationalist state broadcaster at both the Olympics and with his FIFA job-for-the-boys!
2012-02-06 07:59
2012-02-06 16:47
2012-02-06 07:59
A well!
2012-02-06 08:50
2012-02-06 09:55
Lead Story – Syria. Thousands being massacred by Assad Regime as Russia and China Veto. Interview Piece with Douglas Alexander
Second Story – Labour Call for Government to slap down bonuses in Railtrack.
I turned off then……
2012-02-06 10:18
2012-02-06 11:30
2012-02-06 11:19
I honestly don’t know enough from this one story to know if there is any reason for concern. Maybes aye, maybes naw?
2012-02-06 11:27
carnegieuktrust.org.uk/…/…
2012-02-06 12:06
An extension to the darkened room will be urgently required I think!
2012-02-06 12:26
I have had similar thoughts already. It does not take much thinking in MI5/6 etc. to have the idea that an act by an ‘agent provocateur’ would create a negative perception in the publics’ mind. It’s not as though this is a new thing by the British state machinery.
Imagine the comparison with the IRA! The pro-Union MSM would love it.
2012-02-06 14:43
The very existence of the British state is at stake. It would be very easy to simply stuff every ballot box full of “no” votes and would be very difficult to prove.
International observers have to be involved in this referendum to make sure that there is no tampering with the ballot papers or other paperwork.
Off topic, but recently I bought a nice bottle of *cough* GLENROTHES *cough*. However, shortly afterwards I noticed that the RECEIPT had gone missing, so I can’t RECOUNT the exact amount that it cost. I think I was surprised at the time that it was LOWER than I, and many others, expected.
2012-02-06 13:20
Maybe I’m being paranoid, but, I’m beginning to wonder if all of the recent MSM pejorative coverage, including todays Herald is actually some form of collective incitement. Are they trying to get someone somewhere to turn violent to give them an excuse to use terrorist legislation to clamp down on all things supporting Independence- including newsnet.
An extension to the darkened room will be urgently required I think!
They would do this, no question, manufacture an incident then put in the boot against Scotland. They have far too much to loose. They have done this before!
2012-02-06 12:25
please bring up the BBC bias and propaganda problem and get some kind of action taken ?
2012-02-06 13:00
I think they have already started. Between the late start, the over talking by the BBC commentator and the clipping off at the end.
You will have noticed that nothing like that happens with PMQs. They have a whole 1.5 hours to cover it now.
2012-02-06 17:27
In contrast, First Minister questions is shown incomplete, only in Scotland, on one channel.
The BBC has failed in its mandate since the day the Scottish parliament re-opened. It is NOT behaving as an unbiased broadcaster. It most certainly cannot be trusted to be fair and impartial with regards to the referendum.
2012-02-06 13:14
This bit of scare mongering is funny, feel free to fill your boots with comments.
2012-02-06 13:38
2012-02-06 14:00
I wish we could fast-forward through all this cr*p and just vote, then move forward.
2012-02-06 15:08
I see the BBC are up to no good again and twisting facts.
‘Scottish firms ‘locked out’ from procurement contracts’
bbc.co.uk/…/…
Article and news reports are about Scottish firms not getting contracts for Scottish projects
The report was put together by the Cuthberts.
According to Douglas Fraser ‘The Cuthberts’ research on procurement looks like friendly fire in the direction of the SNP government’
He does have the grace to admit that the Cuthberts were looking at past tenders. What he doesnt clarify is that this was looking at tenders before the SNP took office. Listened to the Cuthberts being interviewed and it was clearly stated that in the main it was the PFI contracts.
It was also made clear during the interview that due to the size of most projects some firms just couldnt cope with the size of them, It also came to light that some councils, such as North Lanarkshire would bundle work up and place for tender, again the bundles were too big for exsiting companies to handle
2012-02-06 15:11
so you can compare with hwat the report states to what is and will be churned out by the BBC
…/Reid%20Foundation%20Procurement%20Report.pdf
2012-02-06 16:26
2012-02-06 16:42
The contract arrengents that have now come to light in Scotland seem to be the same ones that have largely excluded Scottish companies from the Olympics largess.
2012-02-06 16:55
Yes and more worryingly slavishly following the Scotsman front page, I wonder how many people really do consider the editorial decisions behind where to place stories; on this one Scotsman and BBC Scotland have it as their respective lead stories meanwhile it’s a side column on page 7 of the Herald.
2012-02-06 17:22
It will be interesting to see what false angle the BBC will keep alive this week, in order to assist Lamont in FMQ’s. Could it be the misleading procurement story??
As we know, Labour in Scotland have had repeated secret meetings with the London Tory Government since the election in May 2011. and we can safely assume they are working hand in hand with them.
The very notion of democracy is at threat here, and it is wholly disgraceful that Labour are involved. The key point now however, is this, the people of Scotland simply cannot trust Westminster, Labour or the BBC anymore. For the referendum, the Scottish Government MUST at the very least ensure observers from the council of Europe and the UN.
London cannot be trusted in ANYTHING they say anymore.
2012-02-06 18:45
2012-02-06 17:30
I for one cannot envisage another few years of this. Bad enough we have to pay through the nose for this 5th column subversion against the Scots state.
I think that in just a day or two this whole issue, and others besides is about to come under a different focus. It will be for others to address the situation here that for one reason or another, the SNP seems powerless to address.
I doubt the SNP are feart of the media but they do aly themselves open time after time to manipulation and twisting of their comments. They are either very slow to learn or incompetent, I’m not sure which ?.
Anyhow, we will be in another game very soon.
2012-02-06 20:06
Any chance you could pick my lotto numbers for Wednesday night 🙂
2012-02-06 18:54
2012-02-06 18:56
Quote:
I doubt the SNP are feart of the media but they do aly themselves open time after time to manipulation and twisting of their comments. They are either very slow to learn or incompetent, I’m not sure which ?.
I agree with you and this story about the censorship by the BBC and ther First Minister’s comments is a case in point.
As soon as I read the Sunday Herald’s article yesterday the word that jumped out of the page was ‘gauleiter’. i knew immediately that that would becomew the story in Monday’s papers and the behaviour of the BBC in thios matter would come way second and indeed that has proved to be the case – see today’s Herald front page.
Someone thought they were being smart by using that term but they definitely were NOT clever. When making a speech or in an interview the SNP must not use analogies or emoticve terms that become the story rather than the message they are trying to get accross and this is a prime example of that.
Keep everything tight, no off the cuff remarks, weigh every word and keep it simple and on message.
I know that the pro-Union side are targetting the First Minister in the most personal way but he must not respond in a like manner no matter how much he may want to. Give him a seat in the darkened room for those times when it gets too much.
In a recent blog about FMQs Brian Taylor noted that Ms Lamont’s tactic was to indulge in personal attacks on the First minister. He seemed to consider this as a legitimate tactic. Ho it does Ms Lamont no credit what so ever because she is using her gender knowing full well that the FM cannot respond in kind to her.
Leave the ‘smart’ to the opposition CLEVER will win this and that is what the SNP and its followers have to be 24/7. A tough call but no one said gaining Independence would be easy.
2012-02-06 19:32
2012-02-06 19:48
Quote:
Yes overall I tend to agree, elsewhere earlier on the site I raised the spectre of it probably being deliberate, hardly a word you just drop into conversation
I agree with you and the article in the Sunday Herald does tend to suggest that it had been used deliberately because it gave an explanation of the term and how it is used today and I had the feeling that the FM may have given that explnation. However, it is now the story not the BBC so not a good plan as others seem to think.
Get the message accross and do not give any amunition in the message that distracts from the message.
The FM has got a lot of positives out of his treatment by Paxman but this tends to neutralise it.
2012-02-06 19:40
I am complaing about the BBC’s treatment of Alex Salmond.
First of all, there is the cancelling of his appearance in the rugby commentary after his agreeing, specifically to him not bringing up political issues on this occassion. This decision smacks of hypocrasy from the BBC as Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones has been involved with previous rugby and I believe Ryder cup commentary.
Your reasons (I pararphrase) being too close to local elections in Scotland is immaterial. A.S is not standing as a councillor, but merely acting as an embassador for Scotland,him being First Minister and this being a home tie.
Secondly, I want to complain about the use of Susan Egelstaff’s interview. Whilst she may have valid points about the politicistion of sport. I believe this interview is used a blatant side swipe aimed at the First Minister who has valid grounds for complain regarding the way he was treated on Saturday. Instead of the BBC showing a little humility over this affair, I believe they have decided instead to inflame the situation with an ill considered further attack.
I trust that following the BBC’s statement of “obligation to impartiality accross all output” means that no further political figure will be invited onto sports programming, including David Cameron and the Olympics. Otherwise the veil of impartiality, with breaking thier own editorial guidelines on these matters will be seen by more for what it is. A sham.
2012-02-06 19:37
theweek.co.uk/…/…
“Eurosceptic Tory MP Peter Bone told the newspaper: “The Germans would be dictating what happens in Greece without any reference to the will of the people. I find it incredible that they would think of sending some latter-day gauleiter to Athens.”
dailymail.co.uk/…/…
“Eurosceptic MPs urge Athens to resist ‘economic domination’ as Berlin calls for EU ‘gauleiter’ to run Greece’s economy”
2012-02-06 19:43
“We have taken this principled – if unusual – stance because we have been offered only limited rights of access by that Gauleiter of Holyrood’s catering facilities, Labour MSP Duncan McNeil”
scotsman.com/…/…
I have a suspicion that Alex may have been aware of this usage when he made his.
2012-02-06 20:00
2012-02-06 22:44
There are some decrepit little manipulators in BBC Scotland. The whole rat pack needs cleaned out.
I am surprised there is not more poublic reaction to the BBC shennanigans.
2012-02-06 23:01
I am surprised there is not more poublic reaction to the BBC shennanigans.
A few people have mentioned a demonstration at Pacific Quay. It would have to be a biggy to get noticed the way we want but I’m certain that many here would be up for it.
2012-02-06 20:01
2012-02-06 21:40
So if the BBC don’t play fair, is there a way in which the Scottish Government can decriminalise non-payment of the TV Licence?
it isnt a CRIMINAL offence under scots law, so there is nothing to decriminalise!
2012-02-06 22:52
does the BBC only depend on scare tactics by issuing warning letters?
I believe there are a number of celebs who won’t pay on principle and haven’t done so for some time. It seems the BBC is reluctant to prosecute them, possibly because these people have a valid point and might win their case, thus embarassing Aunty and setting precedents in law for others to follow.
2012-02-06 23:37
Surely the test is, has anyone been prosecuted and fined for non-payment or
does the BBC only depend on scare tactics by issuing warning letters?
The majority of women in prison, or at least in the 90s… it may have changed, are inside for not paying the licence. These tend to be single mothers on benefits who just don’t have the money to feed the kids and buy food, clothes and heat the house as well as the TV licence. They are hoicked up to court fined, can’t meet the fine so are jailed, necessitating the kids going into care. They reckon 3% of the prison population are women and 50% of the suicide attempts in prison are women.
Quote:
I believe there are a number of celebs who won’t pay on principle and haven’t done so for some time. It seems the BBC is reluctant to prosecute them,
Noel Edmunds I know of but I doubt that is the reason they are not prosecuted. The BBC do not enforce the licence fee, it is contracted to a private firm, Capita I believe, who are paid by results. So do they waste time and money chasing Edmunds knowing he has the resources to fight it legally or do they just go after the poor who can’t afford to pay the fines never mind fight in court? Simpler, more efficient and a higher return.
2012-02-06 21:48
I agree with the person that said that it was a good thing that the SNP had not jumped at every slight and that they should only take on the big ones, this might not be seen as a biggie but sport reaches where others do not.
2012-02-07 09:01
I grudge paying all that money each year for them, and I d like to find away not to pay it, for the reason that they tell lies about Scotland.
2012-02-08 15:11
I know this was merely a snapshot,but in my opinion the BBC strays way out into the tramlines when reporting/commenting any SNP/Scottish Government news.
It’s actually worrying—-not the occasional mistake,but to quote John McEnroe—,”YOU CAN’T BE SERIOUS”.
So terribly sad when these well known and loved Reporting Scotland newsreaders (male and female) are reading,straigh t to camera,question able,biased ‘news’ at times,prepared by others from the political newsroom.
Methinks Head Office,London,o ught to pay a spot visit to BBC TV News Scotland.
Nothing else is going to save the BBC reputation north of the border.
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