By a Newsnet reporter

The Scottish Labour party has been rocked after schoolgirl sex allegations were levelled against head-butt MP Eric Joyce.

According to the Daily Record, the disgraced Labour MP had an affair with a seventeen year old schoolgirl he befriended after she volunteered to help out with his 2010 election campaign.

The teenager was a pupil at Graeme High School in Falkirk when she joined his campaign team, Joyce used her photograph on his election campaign material.

The Labour MP, who was recently charged with three counts of common assault after he allegedly attacked a political opponent in a House of Commons bar, is now under increasing calls to stand down as the MP for Falkirk.

The politician, from Bo’ness, near Falkirk, was bailed last week and is due to appear at West London Magistrates’ Court on March 7.

The controversy surrounding Mr Joyce has brought stinging criticism for Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont who had remained silent.

However, the under fire Labour head finally broke her silence today after the new allegations emerged.

Speaking last night to the Record she said: “This is a man who has abused his position of power and authority.

“I’m disgusted, regardless of any other issues.  I think this makes Eric Joyce unfit to stand for the Labour Party.”

Later on the BBC she appeared more circumspect and added: “I’ve said if the reports are true, I’m gravely concerned about it.

“It is an abuse of trust and power for anybody in his position to have done such a thing and he will provide his own defence.

“But I’ve made clear if these reports are true I do not regard him as somebody suitable to represent the Labour party or the people of Falkirk.”

If Mr Joyce was to stand down it would mean a by-election in Falkirk.  In 2010 Mr Joyce took the seat with the SNP in second place – the majority was 7843.  The Labour party has insisted that it has no power to force Mr Joyce to stand down as an MP.

A defiant Mr Joyce denied that he had an affair with the schoolgirl and said he would be seeking legal advice.

He told the London Evening Standard: “The story is not true and I will be taking legal advice.”

These allegations are only the latest to hit the Scottish Labour party and come weeks after a female councillor alleged that her disabled son’s apprenticeship was threatened by a member of the Glasgow Council Labour group if she did not support the party in a crucial budget vote.

If followed a police investigation into the same Labour councillor two years ago after allegations of sexual harassment were made.  Gilbert Davidson had been accused of making suggestive phone calls to Provost Liz Cameron.  The Labour councillor had also been the subject of an inquiry after he was alleged to have groped a female colleague.

Schoolgirl comments

Ex Labour MSP Frank McAveety, who is to stand as a councillor for the party in Glasgow, was forced to resign as chair of a Holyrood committee after being caught making inappropriate comments about a schoolgirl who was sitting in the public gallery.

The Labour MSP for Glasgow Shettleston was chairing a petitions committee when, during a break in proceedings, he was picked up on microphone referring to a “very attractive girl” in the public benches.

Mr McAveety made reference to the young woman’s skin colour and race adding that she was “dark and dusky” with a “Filipino look”.

McAveety, turning to the committee clerk, said: “She’s very attractive looking, nice, very nice, very slim,” …. “The heat’s getting to me.”

The MSP added: “She looks kinda … she’s got that Filipino look.  You know … the kind you’d see in a Gaugin painting. There’s a wee bit of culture.”

However the most outrageous remark was when he appeared to suggest that the young woman might be pursued in some fashion.

McAveety said: “We’ll maybe put a wee word out for her.”

Related article:


# cjmjr 2012-03-01 20:40
It just gets worse and worse for the Labour party,Johann’s performance at FMQ’s least said soonest mended. Glasgow City Council then South Lanarkshire followed by Stirling Council. Followed be these new sexual allegations is there no end to it.
# Briggs 2012-03-01 20:44
It looks as though the Labour Party hierarchy really know how to select their prospective councillors?

What can the deselected councillors have been guilty of that someone like McCavity is deemed a suitable Party candidate?

As for the Joyce allegation it seems to be a bit like kicking someone when he’s down.

Anything that discomfits Johan is to be welcomed though.
# Legerwood 2012-03-01 21:14
When the Argentinians invaded the Falklands Lord Carrington, the foreign Secretary at the time, resigned immediately.

The US Secretary of State, General haig, was quoted in the newspapers as sying that he could not understand why Lord Carrington resigned because it would not have been seen as a resigning matter in the US.

You could almost hear the mind of the body politic in the UK snap shut on that thought. Since then it has been well nigh impossible to think of any MP who has voluntary resigned no matter what nonsense/illegality/questionable behaviour they have got up to. They all try to tough it out.

It would appear the Mr Joyce is not going to be an exception.
# Skip_NC 2012-03-02 00:31
Legerwood, the only MP I can think of who has done the honourable thing since then is Harvey Proctor in the 1980’s.

Oh dearie dearie me, what a thought.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 21:15
I wonder if Labour will parachute a certain Mr. Macaveety in to Falkirk, if there is a by-election.
# Briggs 2012-03-01 21:17
It would do wonders for the SNP’s chances of winning the seat.

Surely they couldn’t be so lacking in political nous?
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 21:27
Oh, I dunno Briggs. Have you taken a good look at the current crop of Labour M.S.P.’s? 😀
# deepwater 2012-03-01 22:05
They elected Johann leader – and she’s rapidly fading past Gray.
# Robabody 2012-03-02 00:11
as in, fade to black DW?
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 00:12
More like invisibility Robabody. 😀
# cokynutjoe 2012-03-01 23:13
Arbroath, “Wherr’s the Burdz?”
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 23:20
You been talking to Frank McAvennie again coky? 😀
# bringiton 2012-03-01 21:19
It is tragic that a party which used to stand for high moral principles and a sense of civic responsibility has been brought low by a selection procedure which has produced politicians who exhibit none of these characteristics  .
All principles and morality sold in the pursuit of power for it’s own sake.
We need better than this.
# snowthistle 2012-03-01 21:32
Exactly bringiton, and while we rejoice in their misfortune it really does not benefit our country at all. Good governance needs strong opposition and Scotland needs a vibrant and healthy labour party. I hope that after independence the labour party in Scotland sort themselves out and become a Scottish Labour Party which is capable of serving the people
# Robabody 2012-03-02 00:48
I’m sorry snowthistle but I fundamentally disagree with you on this point. The only thing I want for Labour post independence is oblivion. I’d also add that all I want for the yellow and blue tories is the same. This is based on the premise that if all three parties have spent a lifetime of effort to deny Scotland an independent future, why should they be allowed the levers of power in the new Scotland? I mean how could you trust them to serve Scotland well, when they have strained every sinew to keep us tied to Westminster? Think of the Lords, ladies and gentlemen who have, for example, ensured that while they are comfortable and well placed while we still have children here who have major disadvantages in life. No, No and no again! Out, out out!
Let’s have new parties of the left, right and centre but will one overarching criteria – none of the proposed members will have had any connection to the Labour, Conservative or Liberal democrat parties of today. Brutal? Maybe, but some of the strokes pulled by the gruesome threesome merit it.
I’d rather have inexperienced people, making mistakes, and trying their best to make us prosperous and successful than a bunch of cynical so and so’s thinking they were entitled to power just because they are historically “here”.
PS. You’ll have guessed you’ve struck a raw nerve.
PPS. I understand the point you are making re the useless opposition however, that is their problem.
# oldnat 2012-03-02 01:07
Unless you are suggesting the total denial of human rights of some people in the new Scotland, then the question of which candidates can stand for Parliament would be a decision for the members of those parties. Whether they are elected or not is a matter for the voters.

It’s called democracy.
# Robabody 2012-03-02 02:05
Quite right, it just wouldn’t be the parties that are there just now.
And don’t worry, the nearest I ever get to influencing anything is the occasional vote, so their human rights to carry on with business as usual are safe. So rest easy that I’m having a rant about the dire weary willies that have represented me and the disappointments they have engineered. I look forward to the new Scotland with the words of the “Who” ringing in my ears – “Salute the new boss, same as the old boss” and wonder why I bothered.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 21:38
This is the problem when you let the “bully boys” and their best buddies get into positions of power. Now there are far too many “bully boys” in these positions that, I believe, it will take “a generation” to begin to get back to their core roots.

This of course relies on the core membership actually wanting the leadership to change. In order for this to happen the following, I believe, has to happen.

1) you want to change.

2) you have the conviction to change.

3) you have the strength to face up to change.

4) you believe in the changes you want to make.

5) you follow through with change.

6) you continue to change.

7) you protect the changes that you make.

8) you believe in the changes you make.
# bringiton 2012-03-01 21:53
Yes Arbroath but Blair and Brown also followed these principles in the pursuit of power and we can see now where that led.
There has to be a moral dimension to our politics otherwise none of these principles are worth the candle.
Self determination is,in my view,one of the finest principles any human being can aspire to and those who seek to deny that do so because they are morally and intellectually bankrupt.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 22:05
The problem, I think, bringiton, is that although Blair and Brown followed the ideas I have outlined they, I do believe, did so from a starting point of already having the bullies enscosed in the top positions. This just left the “masses” of the Labour membership playing follow my leader. I say this not necessarily to insult them.

What the problem was, as I see it, was that Labour had been out of power for so long they were desperate to regain power and as such they were blinded to what was coming down the road. Once power was achieved the flood gates were opened and all hell eventually erupted throughout the Labour party.
# NH14 2012-03-01 21:24
1st time poster, long time reader.

O/T I know but talking of saying things you shouldn’t. A few days ago Nick Clegg dropped the ‘C’ bomb and the MSM seemed to have ignored it. I know it was an error on his part but still there in all its glory.…/…

For those who have not seen it wait until about 30 secs in.
# K Mackay 2012-03-02 03:14
Wow, that was some freudian slip there! Nice to know that’s what he thinks of us, out of work 18-24 year olds.

What a nice man
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 03:24
Oops! 😀

Fair dues to him though, he didn’t break step in his answer.

Welcome to the “family” NH14.

I wonder if he’ll repeat this when he speaks in the phone box in Inverness at the weekend!
# rgweir 2012-03-01 21:24
I have just watched FMQs.
The performance from Lamont was what could only be described as lamentable,The words shoogly hook come to mind.The best bit was at the end when Lewis McDonald tried to get a sniper shot at AS but was brushed away with ease.
AS also had good words to say regarding Malchom Chisholm,I think he does this on purpose to wind up the labour benches.
# dogcollar 2012-03-01 21:25
I honestly thought that Johan Lamont has lost the plot. Trying to win cheap political points and thinking she is doing well because the hyenas behind her are thumping their desks. She has been a long time in politics and you might have thought she would be more intelligent with her questions but no she appears to be no more than a junior councillor.
How on earth can the BBC not give a fair reflection on FMQ’s instead of implying both sides were of equal status.
# Briggs 2012-03-01 21:42
It’s the only time they are in any way neutral.

You can always be assured that AS has trampled Johan into the dust.

Mind you those sitting round her as she shovels out her inept sound bites are to be commended for their acting ability.

As they say say in Glesga ……’easy pleased’
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 21:42
Isn’t is amazing. The lamentable one constantly tries, and fails I might add, to score cheap political points. Whenever A.S. responds to any of her pathetic attacks she regularly accuses A.S. of trying to score cheap political points.

Perhaps before she continues to accuse anyone of trying to score cheap political points she should look in the mirror!
# Keef 2012-03-01 21:26
Everytime we think Labour has reached the very bottom, they find new ways to stretch the parameters.

No small wonder then the state of Scotland, when we have had to endure decades of this party in power.

Honestly, if this last weeks’ events had been perpetrated by the SNP, they would have been all but disbanded.

What we are seeing is the complicity of the MSM and the EBC keeping this dying body alive. In doing so, they cause a great injustice to the people of Scotland.

Is it any wonder!?

Comment edited by NNS Mod Team
# Hirta 2012-03-01 21:37
Labour has imploded.
# Mako 2012-03-01 21:41
To be honest I don’t think Labour have bothered promoting anyone other than Joyce in Falkirk, believing him to be a safe bet. They will be starting from scratch and banking on the Labour name to get them through the by election. I am sure the SNP supporters of the 2010 election the will still vote for the local SNP candidate. I also believe that it is likely that disgruntled Labour voters, last minute labour voters and Lib Dem deserters will also vote SNP. Bring on the by election.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 21:50
I think this Falkirk fiasco is a real problem for Labour. This is the last thing that was on their minds. They are now in a serious dilemma. As others have pointed out here. Labour is, I think, seriously on the verge of a major implosion, an implosion that they will never be able to recover from. At least in their current form.
# Mako 2012-03-01 22:00
this may sound nasty but….I hope you are right. They need to completely clean house before they can recover. At the moment they are painting over cracks and serious repairing structural faults with silly putty. Sometimes you just need to tear it down and build something new.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 22:23
The problem is Mako, there is no one in Labour who appears to have the backbone to stand up and take charge of the party. Before any real change can be made in Labour they first of all need a leader. They do not have one at the moment and it will be a very long time before, in my view, some one steps up to the plate and takes on that mantle. Who ever does so needs to have some very, very broad shoulders.
# Edna Caine 2012-03-01 23:58
AB –

It’s looking more and more likely that only Malcolm Chisholm can save them.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 00:10
Trouble is Edna, does Malcolm want to take up this almighty challenge.From what I can remember Malcolm Chisolm is one of the “outsiders” within the Labour party. I think he may have burnt too many bridges in the past to become the Leader of Scottish Labour.
# call me dave 2012-03-01 21:45
There comes a point where it is difficult to say anything about the Labour party leadership in Scotland and their Lords; MP’s and MSP’s who in recent years have consistently let their core vote down by their utterances and deeds.

No policies
No integrity
No inspiration
No pride
No respect

This latest revelation which finally forced a public comment from Ms Lamont must be the low point.
We don’t know any real details only insinuations so let us be careful here not to make too much of it.

Labour voters must reflect on whether to stick with a discredited and bungling set of representatives or make a break and seek out a party that can help realise their aspirations for a better Scotland.

Their opportunity to show how they feel will soon be here in May 2012.
# clootie 2012-03-01 21:50
Several years ago many companies ran programmes to change workplace culture. The basis was to change the language first then the thinking/mindsets would follow. The surface issues such as colour /age / sex / disability are obvious but it extended to the “hidden” differences sexuality / religion / mental health etc.

No modern business would tolerate the language and behaviour that many currently display in the Labour party.

This is before we get to the more recent extreme behaviours involving acts of violence or threats.

I would have thought that those who represent the people would have needed such coaching least – I was wrong.
# nottooweeorstupid 2012-03-02 11:55
I know what you mean clootie. They got away with that in a less-aware era but it’s just not on now.
Nowadays when I think of labour policians, I think of shiny suits, dandruff, bigotry and casual sexism. That’s just the men.
# From The Suburbs 2012-03-01 21:54
Do thuggish MPs and Councillors have to be suspended by the Labour Party before Lamont speaks out.

Seems to me Labour leaked story to Daily Record to give Lamont a platform.
# Briggs 2012-03-01 22:00
She should keep clear of any sort of ‘platform’

It’s not a pretty sight as proven at FM’s questions
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 22:14
Thing is FtS, the lamentable one is the leader, allegedly, of Labour in Scotland. Therefore she, you would think, can step in at any time and call for an investigation, suspension etc. The problem is she has sat back with her feet up and done absolutely nothing!

A leader of any party who was actually in control of their party would surely have stepped in as soon as this situation emerged. I, for one second, do not believe we would be holding these discussions if the same situation had occurred in either the SNP, Tories or, yes even, the Lib/Dems in Scotland. Only in Labour do we have a party where all hell breaks lose and the leadership does absolutely nothing!
# PrideoftheClyde 2012-03-01 22:01
It speaks!

I suppose now we know what it takes for Lamont to actually say something. Take note ‘Scottish’ Labour, punch as many tories as you like but don’t get accused of sleeping with a girl 34 years your junior. Then Lamont will have to talk to the press and we all know how much Labour HQ don’t like it when she has to speak in public.

Lamont also pretty much outdone herself today with one of the worst performances at FMQ’s I can remember. She really has to stop reading from that piece of paper in front of her. It is truly painful to watch and listen to. I’ve had more joy listening to my five year old niece struggle through one of her kids books than listen to Lamont struggle through a script which clearly she has never seen before entering the chamber. Plus her eyes are looking down at the desk so much it looks like she is asleep on her feet.
# clootie 2012-03-01 22:22
I sometimes start to feel sorry for her ………..and then I remember what they are doing to Scotland.
# Robabody 2012-03-02 00:53
indeed clootie!
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 22:29
Most new leaders normally start from a low point and gradually improve over time.

Note I said most. Unfortunately this can not be said about the lamentable one. She started from a low level, just like every other new leader. However, instead of improving she has sunk lower and lower and ……..
# jjmac 2012-03-01 22:19
Her shakey hands definitely give the game away. A very frightened woman i would say.
# Jiggsbro 2012-03-01 22:29
O/T, Scotland is obviously influencing Europe:…/… (Sarkozy hides in bar amid protest)
# Fungus 2012-03-01 22:31
Sorry folks but this was a consensual affair between two people of legal age, how does that amount to an abuse of power? There is no suggestion Joyce made the young woman do anything against her will to merit what happened being described as abusive. It may be distasteful and unprofessional and stupid but abusive? Also describing her as a ‘schoolgirl’ may well be technically correct but isn’t it being used as an emotive term to make the story seem worse than it is? Something we, quite rightly, berate the MSM for constantly.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 22:44
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there Fungus. Unfortunately, the lamentable must have been feeling a wee bit of heat in the Labour kitchen. Unfortunately no one told her that this was, more than likely, a consensual affair.

Net result the lamentable one only sees some one “over 21” having an affair with someone “under 21”. OH MY GOD! What was he thinking! This really is too much.

Will someone open the lamentable ones eyes to the fact that:

This was, allegedly, a consensual affair between two consenting adults.

This was, allegedly, a consensual affair between two adults of legal age.

No illegality, apparently, has happened.

So what is the problem oh great lamentable one?
# doctor_zaius 2012-03-01 23:19
And interesting that the illegal act (viz assault allegation) is ignored entirely by Lamont. Having said that, although not illegal, the affair would certainly be distasteful.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 23:27
Whilst the “affair” is distasteful to many D.Z. lets not forget that affairs, engagements and marriages happen between people who have large age differences between them.
# doctor_zaius 2012-03-01 23:33
Agreed. Hence how bizarre the emphasis of lamont on the legal (but in her view ‘disgusting’) affair was. But it does feel like a man in power taking advantage of an infatuated young girl (although we don’t have the facts and the beeb/record are v reliable/neutral are they not?)
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 23:37
True D.Z.

Isn’t it amazing how the lamentable one seems to have picked up on what is really the totally wrong aspect of the whole Eric Joyce debacle!
# gregalach 2012-03-02 07:14
The issue is not whether this was legal, but that it was ethically and morally reprehensible. He was in a position of seniority, power and authority with respect to her,and used/abused this position for his own indulgence. Although over 16, the girl could still be seen as vulnerable and impressionable in this situation If a teacher has an affair with one of the schoolchildren in their care, age is immaterial. It is the imbalance of status and authority, the opportunity to coerce, that is the important aspect of this kind of abuse. He was in a position where he could have used promises, or threats regarding her future prospects therefore this is clearly an abuse of his position and he is rightly condemned for it.
# Holebender 2012-03-02 08:03
I’m sorry, I can’t agree with you. Joyce used his position of power and influence to get into the knickers of an impressionable young woman who was working for him. There was nothing illegal as far as age of consent goes, but it was definitely an abuse of power. Imagine it in terms of a senior manager in a company seducing the office junior.
# Jake62 2012-03-02 09:41
Quoting Holebender:
I’m sorry, I can’t agree with you. Joyce used his position of power and influence to get into the knickers of an impressionable young woman who was working for him. There was nothing illegal as far as age of consent goes, but it was definitely an abuse of power.

And this is fact? Or the speculation of the press?

# Holebender 2012-03-02 11:07
OK, whether it’s fact or speculation, I disagree with the posters above who say there is nothing wrong with Joyce having sex with this woman because she’s old enough. The wrongdoing is in using his position of power over her to seduce her, not the act of sexual intercourse between two people of legal age.
# Jake62 2012-03-02 11:24
Quoting Holebender:
The wrongdoing is in using his position of power over her to seduce her, not the act of sexual intercourse between two people of legal age.

Leaving aside for the moment the pejorative use of ‘seduce’ (because we really don’t know if that’s what happened), think about this example . . .

A woman of 43 works with a man of 26 at RBOS, with her being his boss. They have an affair. Would you say she abused her position of power too?

Then say hello to Mrs and Mrs Salmond 😉

Unless there is real concern of an abusive relationship, or the roles have implicit positions of trust (teacher and student, for instance) we cannot interfere or pass judgement on an affair between two consenting adults, especially in circumstances where political posturing seems to be taking the driving seat. Where would this stop?

# Holebender 2012-03-02 15:18
It would depend on the power relationship between the couple involved. If there was little difference between the “rank” of the two, or if they were in entirely different departments where one had little or nothing to do with the career prospects of the other I’d say no problem. On the other hand, if one was significantly senior to the other and/or had the ability to have a major impact on the career of the other I’d say there was an abuse of power.

In the case of an MP and a young acolyte working on the MP’s election campaign and having political ambitions of his/her own I think there is a significant power relationship which is open to abuse.
# Jake62 2012-03-02 22:36
So, what do you suggest? That every potential relationship in the workplace is assessed for age disparity and the potential level of abuse/exploitation before it’s allowed to proceed? Who gets to judge? How much is too much disparity in age?

Unless abuse is really suspected, if the people involved are legally adults thn we can’t and shouldn’t interfere, and certainly not when the purpose of press opinion appears to be to use the case just as a convenient cudgel for picking on Labour.

# Jake62 2012-03-02 09:39
Quoting Fungus:
Sorry folks but this was a consensual affair between two people of legal age, how does that amount to an abuse of power?

Agreed. If she’s old enough to be considered for a vote in the referendum, then she’s old enough to choose her own afairs. The stories going about look more like a club to beat Labour with than proper moral indignation.

# Jiggsbro 2012-03-02 09:52
To be fair to Lamont, she doesn’t consider that this girl was old enough to vote in the referendum, despite being legally an adult.
# Holebender 2012-03-02 11:10
As someone pointed out above, if a teacher has sex with an over-16 pupil it is still considered an abuse of power. Ditto if a boss has sex with an over-16 employee.

It’s not about the sexual relationship, it’s about the power relationship.
# lumilumi 2012-03-02 23:16
The teacher-pupil situation is very clear, boss-employee also fairly clear, there is the element of power.

However, the allegations against Mr Joyce concern a volunteer. If anything did indeed happen, the young woman in question wouldn’t have been in danger of losing her job. There is an element of power there as well, I’m not denying that, but it’s not comparable to a teacher-pupil or boss-office junior relationship.

That said, I’m disgusted at grown men falling for “starstruck” and perhaps slightly naive young women.
# pictic-1 2012-03-01 22:35
A free interpretation of Wullie Shakesbeer:


“Who is it in the press that calls on me?
I hear a tongue shriller than all the music”

Cry “Lamont!”

Speak, Lamont is turn’d to hear.


“Beware the ides of May”.


“What man is that?”

Alexius Salamondius:

“A soothsayer bids you beware the ides of May.”
# megz 2012-03-01 22:38
Ok first off i will start by saying that even though it isnt legally wrong, to take advantage of a young girl like that (who was clearly infatuated) is morally wrong.

Second I wonder how this story got into the media so quickly, i would suspect that someone/someone’s within the party knew about this ‘affair’ (the article suggests that people were already concerned with his closeness with young volunteers yet said/did nothing) and has leaked it to the ever compliant daily record, therefore trashing this young girls life and treating it as just collatoral damage whilst claiming faux indignation an disgust at something i suspect they have known about all along. Just because they have no proper mechanism to remove someone from their position (all this is just my opinion and just based on reading between the lines)
# Jenny2603 2012-03-01 22:49
Agree. I also think it was completely wrong to identify the girl the way the Record did. Not to mention somewhat hypocritical, the article presents her as a victim in all this, yet they add to that by printing her picture, details of her social media use and name.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 22:57
Do the Record not have history on this type of story?
# Robabody 2012-03-02 01:01
Quoting megz:
people were already concerned with his closeness with young volunteers yet said/did nothing
The key in a nutshell – they did nothing!
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 01:06
These wouldn’t be the same people who were “concerned” about his health after his little “tete a tete” in the Stranger’s bar would they?
# alexb 2012-03-01 22:38
While I agree with your other points, Arbroath 1320, I think you would have the same outcome with the Tory/LibDem leadership in Scotland if one of their members had stepped out of line. As I have said before they are mere puppets, put in position by their Westminster masters to do their bidding. As for Lamont,s comments on Joyce she, once again, completely missed the main point in her statements. Instead of rambling on about his “alleged” affair, which he denies and has stated he is taking legal advice over the allegations, she should have, admitted belatedly, condemned him for the assaults in the House of Common,s, for which he has been charged, and will appear in court shortly. As usual, she got it wrong, and is impotent if Joyce decides not to resign his Falkirk seat.
# C2DEalba 2012-03-01 22:48
Words fail me here. In my opinion, Mr Joyce has abused his position as an MP in respect this young girl. I feel for her splashed all over the newspapers.

I think Labour leaked this information to get rid of him. However, I doubt, Mr Joyce has the grace to resign.
# scotus 2012-03-01 22:52
O/T – It looks as if Sarkozy has been taking lessons from somebody we know!…/…
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 22:55
Now I wonder whoever you could mean? 😀
# Hirta 2012-03-01 23:05
You can see the individual at the very end of today’s FMQ’s on the (E)BBC iPlayer.

Looked like the right place for him – at the very back, tucked away.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 22:53
Thing is alexb, I was trying to be kind to the other leaders. They have been in post a wee bit longer than the lamentable one and I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. After all we are talking about a hypothetical situation here. I do, all the same take your point. After all if we look at past indiscretions at Westminster none of the unionist parties have covered themselves in much honour there. So yes I bow to your “correction” of my original post.
# alexb 2012-03-01 23:02
Thanks, Arbroath 1320. But really we agree in principle, not a word to be used in earshot of the Labour party. I actually believe in having a strong opposition in Parliament, just not this parcel of rogues.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 23:08
Agreed alexb. 😀
# Marga B 2012-03-01 23:04
I heard tonight that if you want international support for independence, you have to have cross-parliamentary support. If that’s true, Scotland’s got a very long way to go.
# Exile 2012-03-02 09:40
Just that it’s not true, Marga. Don’t believe everything you hear. A clear YES vote followed by a clear statement of intent from the Scottish government is all the ‘international community’ will need.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 23:06
Looks like it is not just Scottish Labour who are in a wee bit of trouble.…/…

I love the first two sentences.

ED Miliband has been holding secret talks with former PM Tony Blair to discuss Labour’s strategy.

The pair have met four times to review the party’s direction under Mr Miliband’s leadership.
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-03-01 23:24
Blair – yep, that’ll steady the sinking ship that Blair as chief rat jumped off in the first place before he was shot …

Don’t tell me Labour are going to bring back their golden boys – Blair and Brown – for a come back tour …. save New Labour, save the Union and still be home fer their tea ….. MATRON! the darkened room and pronto
# Fungus 2012-03-01 23:36
Wonder how much Blair is charging for his consultancy services.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 23:39
I believe his “consultancy” fees start in the £10,000 per hour bracket. 😀

Come to think about it, can the millpede’s Labour afford £10,000 per hour on consultancy fees?
# scotus 2012-03-01 23:32
Just looked at the headline again – what is this ‘Scottish Labour left’?
# jjmac 2012-03-01 23:45
Joanne Lament is always reading from a script.
Wee Eck is definitely not.
Who is the real plotician?
# Fungus 2012-03-01 23:50
Nothing wrong with using a script, her problem is she hasn’t the wit to deviate from it.
“Why are Scottish companies not making steel for the bridge”
“Because there are no Scottish companies with the capacity to make the steel”
“But why are Scottish companies not making the steel”

The woman really is at the bottom of the heap.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-01 23:55
The trouble is no one has told her that she is allowed to deviate from the written script!
# David Alexander 2012-03-02 00:08
At the time of the 2000 by-election Labour put forward a short list of 2 for the seat, Joyce and a certain Jim Devine. As for the Labour Party in Falkirk, it has been dominated by the Goldie family for years and either Dennis Goldie will be selected or one whose strings he can pull.
# oldnat 2012-03-02 00:25
From the SLAB website – “Dennis Goldie has been a Labour Party member for over forty years. Dennis is married with two children and two grandchildren, he and all of his family live in the Falkirk West Constituency. He is a former TGWU shop steward and branch secretary.

During his time in the Labour Party, Dennis has held the posts of Branch Chair and CLP Chair many times and has also been Treasurer of Camelon Labour Club for over twenty years.

Dennis was a local councillor for 27 years during which time he was elected Provost three times and Council Leader Twice, as well as chairing many of the Council committees.”
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 00:18
I’m sorry. So very sorry. 😀

I’ve just seen this and am left on total incredulity.…/…

To quote the well used NNS phrase:

you couldn’t make this up! 😀
# Marga B 2012-03-02 00:44
And to be held in Azerbaijan … is there something in the water over there?
# J Wil 2012-03-02 01:03
He couldn’t do any worse than the others.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 01:08
Hell, who knows he might actually win! 😀

Wouldn’t that be something. The oldest singer in Eurovision history WINS! 😀
# call me dave 2012-03-02 00:23
Hurling boomerangs at ‘The First Eck’ is as good as she can manage. The skills involved in a political fencing match are too horrible to contemplate. He could run her through in a trice.
‘The First Eck’ will dispose of her in good time, he is allowing the world to see how incompetent she is until the right moment.
# Stravaiger 2012-03-02 00:24
Sorry for sounding a trivial note but has anyone else just watched the interview on News-Night Scot-Land with Gordon Brew-Er, John Curt-Ice and Iain MacWhir-Ter concerning the alleged misdeeds of Major Joyce?

Is Gordon angling for a new job Dahn Saff or has he been so thoroughly indoctrinated by his superiors that he thinks the ancient Cowal clan name of Lamont should be pronounced La Mont?
# oldnat 2012-03-02 00:30
I noticed that too. Doubtless he is accepting Miliband’s version as being the correct one.

Of more interest, however, was Curtice’s comment about getting rid of MPs not being up to the party, but that they remained there until the next election for the Parliament “as long as that Parliament exists”!

Also noted McWhirter’s comment that Douglas Alexander is going to make a pitch to SLAB this weekend, that they should move to the DevoPlus position.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 00:43
Also noted McWhirter’s comment that Douglas Alexander is going to make a pitch to SLAB this weekend, that they should move to the DevoPlus position.

Boy I bet that will be an “interesting” meeting.

I wonder what [edited] sister has to say about all this!
# oldnat 2012-03-02 00:48
It will be interesting. It will be at the SLAB Spring Conference this weekend (the Scottish LDs conference is also this weekend).
# call me dave 2012-03-02 01:10
Will it attract a bigger attendance than last time. OBAN was it??

Will it be live on the TV? Will Glen& Brian be there or even Ed.

Policies Ms Lamont we need to know what Labour intend to do apart from howling at the moon and cussing the ‘The First Eck’
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 01:13
Perhaps they will change their policies around, you know….

1) Howling at A.S.

2) Cussing at the moon.

Hell they might actually work cause their current policies sure as hell don’t!
# oldnat 2012-03-02 01:16
“Will it be live on the TV?”

I haven’t bothered checking the schedules. Parties have Spring and Autumn Conferences, and they get to choose which one they want the TV companies to cover.
# oldnat 2012-03-02 01:24
Looks like both SLab and SLib have opted for coverage of their Autumn Conferences.
# millie 2012-03-02 01:28
Re :Douglas Alexander’s embracing of ‘Devolution Plus’.

For Devolution Plus- read ‘son of Calman’…/….
# oldnat 2012-03-02 01:46
Thanks for the link. Of course, the article omits the real reason for the panic in Unionist ranks. It isn’t the polling on independence/devolution/status quo, but the voting intention polls, which continue to demonstrate a big SNP lead.

Without that, we would be offered nothing.
# govanite 2012-03-02 00:35
Yes, saw that and again the assertion that Eck wants a 2nd question cos he thinks he’ll lose the Big One. Whatever. They never think that Eck doesn’t really want a 2nd question.

Also,Stv, interview unionist and explore all the supposed difficulties of Independence. Then interview a single nat and yet a other unionist.
Stv had been doing so well recently but they are being leaned on.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 00:47
Isn’t it interesting how A.S. can say, consistently, that all the SNP are interested in is a vote on Independence.

Perhaps we should help them to take the spuds out of their lugs. Once they have been de-spudded they may actually start to hear what A.S. is saying and stop putting words into his mouth!

A.S. has never said he wants a devo “whatever” option in case he loses the Independence referendum vote. A.S. doesn’t do “planning to lose” options!
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-03-02 00:37
I’m knackered, its late but I think the most likely folk to leak the story about the wee lassie and the galloping major would be the Falkirk Constituency Party who have never supported nor liked the man … anyone been bothered to find out what Joyce’s Falkirk mouthpiece, Grahamski, is making of his hero’s downfall over at the Hootsmon?
# Stevie Cosmic 2012-03-02 11:31
You could look here:

….but….oh look, nothing! Not a single mention.

Oh well, at least there’s plenty of Salmond/Nat bashing hysteria to keep you going until your sides, quite literally, split in two.
# Ready to Start 2012-03-02 00:35
If Labour did leak this story to the Daily Record then it is disgusting that they should drag this young girl through the gutter press just to make Johannn look important.
# call me dave 2012-03-02 00:44
I will give Ms Lamont the benefit of the doubt ( more than she gives AS ). I thing it is more likely the DR had the story and made her an offer she couldn’t refuse.

If Labour has leaked this story . . .well limbo dance record holders they will become. . . And that’s setting the bar very low

# govanite 2012-03-02 00:46
Dear Toodeloothenoo

Watching FMQs, How long can lamont go on being a figure of ridicule ? Today’s effort was particularly pathetic. Schadenfreude.
# ButeHouse 2012-03-02 02:43
On the contrary govanite, I thought Johann was comic gold today. Her timing and po face would have gone down well at any comedy club in the country. She was even funnier than Alex today, his best line was visitors at Bute House only get a cup of tea and a Tunnock’s biscuit compared to Rupert’s lavish champaign Garden parties attended by Tory and Labour Ministers past and present.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 02:48
Let’s face it the lamentable one is really in the chamber as the comic warm up act.

If Labour were serious about being an opposition party in Holyrood they would surely have picked some one else as leader, wouldn’t they?
# Vincent McDee 2012-03-02 00:50
I particularly loved the end of Mrs. Lament FMQ’s intervention as presented by the Scotsman (despite Alex being as usual, under fire):…/…

Lament: “Despite what the First Minister said, the editor of the Sun says it is October 18 2014. He is so sure he told Twitter ‘See what odds you can get on it. We are right’.”

She then asked: “Is the First Minister saying the editor of the Sun is wrong?”

Mr Salmond told her: “The First Minister is saying Johann Lamont is wrong.”
# J Wil 2012-03-02 01:07
Laamont tries to lay all these bear traps for AS which turn out to be mouse traps and easily avoided.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 01:09
Oh I don’t know J Wil. I think they could be bear traps…….for herself! 😀
# roboftheburnawn 2012-03-02 01:14
Anyone any links to todays FMQ’s
# Edna Caine 2012-03-02 01:30
Rob – link –…/…
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 01:30
Looks like the Labour chaos machine has found its way over to the Hootsmon.…/……/…

And here is the Hootsmon’s slant on the Murdoch story.…/…
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 01:50
Oh dear, methinks we will not be having any of these aircraft on our aircraft carriers for quite some time yet.…/…
# Jimbo 2012-03-02 12:18
One thing that struck me from that article, Arb:

Moreover, the government added, it will be cheaper. It would also enable French planes to land on British carriers, and vice versa, inkeeping with the new UK-French defence spirit of co-operation.

They reeled out the Unionist General Mike Jackson the other night on STV to tell us child-minded Scots that the SNP’s plan for a Scottish-UK defence spirit of co-operation is nonsensical and unworkable.
# Marga B 2012-03-02 02:00
MacWhirter article in the Herald on Devo Max just doesn’t make sense nor does it seem to tie up with some of his previous articles. Afraid he’s taking his eye off the ball these days. Pity.
# Stravaiger 2012-03-02 02:24
I agree, Marga B. A very strange article. I think he came very close to saying what he feels in his heart which is that Scotland deserves better but that he can’t just bring himself to support Scottish self-determination.

However, he is clearly in despair at the paucity of talent among the politicians he is dependent on to maintain the argument in favour of the union.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 02:15
And the fightback begins.…/…

Nick Clegg will say the SNP must come clean on its plans, while Ed Miliband will argue the move would undermine work to build a fair society.

I guess the unionist parties are not so keen to de-spud their lugs after all.
# Vincent McDee 2012-03-02 02:36
The best part is this:

Andrew Black

Political reporter, BBC Scotland

Once upon a time, it was Labour and the Liberal Democrats which were the main political force in Scotland.

They served for eight years in coalition government at Holyrood, but, the voters’ desire for change has seen the SNP win more popular support at the polls than any other party since devolution in 1999.

Ahead of the independence referendum – likely to be held in autumn 2014 – Labour and the Lib Dems face the challenge of teaming up to make the case for the union.

At the same time though, they also have to rebuild their parties in the face of tough losses at the last Scottish election.

For Labour, it has to up its role as an effective main opposition party and government-in-waiting.

And the Lib Dems have to counteract their perceived unpopularity in Scotland, after doing a deal with the Tories at Westminster.

Before the referendum though, comes the council elections in May, which could well bring further electoral woes for the two parties

Will wonders never cease? An un-biased BBC situation report; no more, no less.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 02:58
There has been a story recently about Rebekah Brooks “acquiring” a horse from the Metropolitan Police. Well looks like it has taken another twist.

When will it get through to these idiot politicians. They keep going on about NotW and phone hacking etc. Now we have “Call me Dave” going around on horseback.…/…

I wonder. Did Ruth Davidson “know” about this?

Perhaps this is why there was no “Murdoch” attack from her at FMQ’s.
# Massacre1965 2012-03-02 09:12
Quoting Arbroath1320:
There has been a story recently about Rebekah Brooks “acquiring” a horse from the Metropolitan Police. Well looks like it has taken another twist.

When will it get through to these idiot politicians. They keep going on about NotW and phone hacking etc. Now we have “Call me Dave” going around on horseback.…/…

I wonder. Did Ruth Davidson “know” about this?

Perhaps this is why there was no “Murdoch” attack from her at FMQ’s.

It would have been a far better story if he had rode Rebecca Brookes instead of the horse – I may have considered buying this trash then
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 15:20
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 16:45
And here is “Call me Dave’s” response to the accusations that he went riding horses, or whatever.…/…
# lumilumi 2012-03-02 07:43
The Labour in Scotland really are inept and incompetent.

Take the scenario: “candidate hides from protesters”. Scottish Labour comes up with this:…/

Here’s the French showing how it’s done:…/…
# flyingscotsman 2012-03-02 10:34
The only reason Johann Lamont spoke out in this case was that she is a known campaigner for women’s rights, she is a one trick pony as that is all she really seems to know. But even though this girl is only 17, the age of consent is now 16 so there arent any laws broken as far as I know. The fact that she didnt speak out when male against male violence occurred which is far more serious imho, it speaks volumes.
# J Wil 2012-03-02 10:43
What about the shenanigans at Glasgow City Council. Where was her committment to womens rights there?

It seems that principle goes out the window when it comes to saving face for the party.
# flyingscotsman 2012-03-02 14:14
Well thats the point I was making. It’s hypocrisy and she hasnt got the political skill to deal with other party issues like what happened at GCC or the rape case that may, according to her party, take precedence over her own personal views. She just doesnt know what to do and it shows she isnt in control.

And I am just saying that this political party leader should reflect the views of the electorate and not concentrate on their own female-biased personal agendas and ignoring the other half of the population. She spoke out about the less serious accusation while ignoring the other more serious one which involved male violence. Her “as a mother” attitude grates on me, she would best try to be a politician instead and not focus on a subset of the people.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 15:26
Political leader?

What political leader?

Labour’s political leader?

You mean Labour have a political leader?

“Darkened Room” Make way I’m coming through! 😀
# admiral 2012-03-02 12:35
Quoting flyingscotsman: 
The only reason Johann Lamont spoke out in this case was that she is a known campaigner for women’s rights, she is a one trick pony as that is all she really seems to know.

Then why hasn’t she apologised for misleading (errr – lying to) Parliament over the fictitious rape case that she raised some months ago?

Why hasn’t she spoken out against the Labour leader Red (sic) Ed accepting Tory cuts, which will disproportionat  ely affect women’s employment, whilst railing against the impact of the self-same Tory cuts at FMQ’s, as a stick with which to beat the Scottish Government and Alex Salmond?

Hypocrisy and Labour? Nae comment!!!!!
# Holebender 2012-03-02 15:38
Why hasn’t she commented on the alleged intimidation of a female Glasgow councillor by a male Glasgow councillor during the budget vote?
# weegie38 2012-03-02 23:40
Quoting Holebender:
Why hasn’t she commented on the alleged intimidation of a female Glasgow councillor by a male Glasgow councillor during the budget vote?

Because her husband is the Deputy Leader of the Labour council group which scraped through in that vote.
# tilly 2012-03-02 11:50
Joyce denies having an affair.

The Herald: Labour MP denies he had secret affair.

What now for Lamont?
# heraldnomore 2012-03-02 12:41
I’m sure these are the leadership skills which Mrs Balls has in mind in her view that there will soon be a female leader of The Party (over at the HuffPo) – where Scotland leads etc

It’s only been a few short weeks but it must be leadership and gravitas as displayed by Mrs Graham which the fragrant Yvette has in mind. Of course I could be wrong….
# Dundonian West 2012-03-02 13:14
To the Record,Lamont said,in relation to the 17 year old “I’m disgusted, regardless of any other issues.I think this makes Eric Joyce unfit to stand for the Labour Party.”

Really? Where is common justice? Eric Joyce is being pilloried by Lamont based only on a newspaper report.

Has she no sense of fair play,when a man is down? To make a sweeping statement, like the above,she is treading on VERY shaky ground.

Vilification by the man’s Leader—-NO.

Several hours later she tells the BBC—-,”If true”.
Her penny finally dropped.
# Arbroath1320 2012-03-02 15:27
I was wondering what that clanging noise was! 😀
# raisethegame 2012-03-02 14:33
“Scottish Labour has ‘great deal of talent’, says leader Lamont”

Listen To Johann Lamont being interviewed here:…/…
# clootie 2012-03-02 14:53

“great deal of talent” can be a relative measure and on a range of topics.
Expenses claimed – top quartile
Longest time spent in a subway branch – winner.
Most family members in council positions – a first.
Ability to Bully – world class
Party with guarantee to ermine – first again.

Being able to achieve maximum personal benefit from any given situation is a talent.

detail is everything.
# Tom Pullings 2012-03-04 18:26
The only real talent these wastes of space possess is the ability to reply to a question without answering it. They have it down to a fine art and the interviewers often let them off the hook. ‘Should Eric Joyce resign?’ “Ah’ve pure dead telt him that if the allegations ur pure true, he’s no right fur the joab.”
‘Yes, yes but should he go?’
“Ah’ve pure dead telt him so ah’ve ur.”
‘Great thanks for putting us right on your position…..NOT!”
# lumilumi 2012-03-02 22:50
La Lamentable really is a lamentable party leader. Compared to her, Iain Gray was charismatic and politically astute.

What I really find distasteful is her riding on this “women’s issues” ticket. “Feminists” like her set modern, capable, self-assured women back decades. Maybe she thinks she’s still there, when it all started?

As to her total silence on criminal charges and then opening her mouth on newspaper allegations of a relationship with a girl over the age of consent… It’s just cheap moralism, not morals, ethics or integrity, for she has none.

(Neither does Eric Joyce but that’s beside the point here.)

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