General
Monday, 12 March 2012 00:53
205 Comments
By a Newsnet reporter
Viewers have complained to BBC Scotland after a headline appeared on an article following an interview with SNP Deputy leader Nicola Sturgeon in which she was asked how an independent Scotland would have coped with the banking crisis.
The headline ‘Sturgeon says an independent Scotland would have relied on UK for RBS bailout’ appeared on an online article despite Ms Sturgeon stating clearly that an independent Scotland could have coped with any banking collapse.
Newsnet Scotland understands that several viewers have complained about the ‘inaccurate’ wording contained in the headline after an interview with BBC Scotland’s Brian Taylor.
The interview, a podcast, saw BBC Scotland’s Political Editor ask Ms Sturgeon a series of questions posed by members of the public.
One question related to the bail-out of RBS and the Bank of Scotland by Westminster and how an independent Scotland could have coped.
Ms Sturgeon answered that an independent Scotland may have had in place an oil fund just as Norway has that would have allowed the banking situation to be easily managed.
The Deputy First Minister also pointed out that jurisdictions in which any bank operated would be responsible for any losses incurred and cited Belguim, Netherlands and Luxembourg as an example of how different nations co-operated in dealing with the crisis when Fortis bank was bailed out.
Ms Sturgeon claimed that Scotland and England would have dealt with the collapse in a similar co-operative manner.
“In the real world people come together to stabilise banks, so the BeNeLux countries for example came together to bail out Fortis bank.
“The fact of the matter is RBS is a Scottish headquartered bank, about ninety per cent of its activity is in England.
“Nat West is one of the biggest English banks. RBS have money from the US Federal Reserve, from the European Central Bank from the Australian Central Bank.
“In reality, Scotland and England would have worked together with Scotland paying its full way to stabilise RBS and the Bank of Scotland.”
“… We would have come together to work together on that.” she said.
However the subsequent headline claiming Ms Sturgeon had admitted that Scotland would have “relied” on UK banks has been met with anger.
It comes as Chairman of the BBC Trust Chris Patten looks into allegations of questionable behaviour by the BBC contained in a dossier handed to him by the Scottish Government.
There are also growing demands that something be done about BBC Scotland’s political coverage with viewers unhappy at perceived bias and threatened cut-backs with shows like Newsweek Scotland facing the axe.
It isn’t the first time BBC Scotland has come under fire following an SNP conference. In 2009, a private apology was issued to SNP Minister Alex Neil after views were attributed to him by BBC Scotland reporter Catriona Renton.
Ms Renton, a former Glasgow Labour councillor and Labour election candidate, had claimed in a broadcast that the Housing Minister had admitted he wanted the Conservatives to win the 2010 General election – Mr Neil had expressed no such view.
There has also been criticism of the corporation after former Labour activist John Boothman, who is the partner of a former Labour MSP Susan Deacon, was appointed head of news and current affairs at BBC Scotland. Mr Boothman had previously been criticised for suggesting that Labour candidates receive media training to help with media appearances.
View the interview here, (Bank question starts 18 mins in): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-17325032
Comments
#
2012-03-12 08:31
And so, not content with giving sub standard coverage of the party conference of the Scottish Government, the BBC have now decided to tell lies.
That headline is quite categorically NOT what the deputy First Minister of Scotland said.
It has been clear for many, many years that the BBC is merely a puppet of Westminster, and simply cannot be trusted to provide fair, balanced political reporting in Scotland.
The BBC in Scotland needs shut down. For the referendum, the Scotish Government MUST insist upon the presence of council of Europe monitors, in order to ensure the biased state puppet broadcaster provides even, fair handed coverage. If they do not do so, then we can be assured of endless ‘pro Britain’, ‘we’re all in it together’ type programming every night running up to the referendum.
Something MUST be done about this blatant political bias by the BBC.
That headline is quite categorically NOT what the deputy First Minister of Scotland said.
It has been clear for many, many years that the BBC is merely a puppet of Westminster, and simply cannot be trusted to provide fair, balanced political reporting in Scotland.
The BBC in Scotland needs shut down. For the referendum, the Scotish Government MUST insist upon the presence of council of Europe monitors, in order to ensure the biased state puppet broadcaster provides even, fair handed coverage. If they do not do so, then we can be assured of endless ‘pro Britain’, ‘we’re all in it together’ type programming every night running up to the referendum.
Something MUST be done about this blatant political bias by the BBC.
#
2012-03-12 16:18
Couldn’t agree more if I tried RL. Shutting them down is the only way to stop this terrible bias.
I have already asked for the same in terms of monitoring on the referendum consultation.
If the BBC misquoted or made something up about Messrs Cameron or Clegg, Patton would be on the carpet before he could say “It wasn’t me”.
It’s a ridiculous state of affairs that needs sorting now.
I have already asked for the same in terms of monitoring on the referendum consultation.
If the BBC misquoted or made something up about Messrs Cameron or Clegg, Patton would be on the carpet before he could say “It wasn’t me”.
It’s a ridiculous state of affairs that needs sorting now.
#
2012-03-12 08:37
The BBC will never change as they are operating to an idea of what Scotland should be rather than what it is. Scotland is not England and the motivations of the English establishment runs diametrically opposite to the thoughts and aspirations of Scots.
The gap between us is widening but not within the BBC. They see themselves as omnipotent and beyond any criticism whatsoevr. How dare we complain about bias, they are not at all biased, they are following their own agenda, endorsed and promoted by London.
Chris Patten probably threw Alex Salmonds dossier in the fire, much like Cameron throwing Salmonds demands for greater control, into the same fire.
We are dismissed by London as quarralsome Scots and their attitude will not change. Witness just how long it took them to wake up to the SNP’s massive victory last May.
As for the BBC, without a short sharp shock they will in no way acknowledge their failures.
Hitting them in the pocket is the only way they might, just might, take notice. Even a mass protest outside Pathetic Key will not work unless, the worlds media is invited to watch.
The gap between us is widening but not within the BBC. They see themselves as omnipotent and beyond any criticism whatsoevr. How dare we complain about bias, they are not at all biased, they are following their own agenda, endorsed and promoted by London.
Chris Patten probably threw Alex Salmonds dossier in the fire, much like Cameron throwing Salmonds demands for greater control, into the same fire.
We are dismissed by London as quarralsome Scots and their attitude will not change. Witness just how long it took them to wake up to the SNP’s massive victory last May.
As for the BBC, without a short sharp shock they will in no way acknowledge their failures.
Hitting them in the pocket is the only way they might, just might, take notice. Even a mass protest outside Pathetic Key will not work unless, the worlds media is invited to watch.
#
2012-03-12 11:42
Quoting UpSpake:
I think the world’s media should be made aware of the disgusting bias of the BBC and the press.
Maybe we should write letters to foreign newspapers or have a peaceful protest at events where the world’s media will be covering. The outside world should be made aware of the suppression of news and distortion by the media here who attempt to influence the public to support their unionist agenda.
The BBC will never change as they are operating to an idea of what Scotland should be rather than what it is. Scotland is not England and the motivations of the English establishment runs diametrically opposite to the thoughts and aspirations of Scots. The gap between us is widening but not within the BBC. They see themselves as omnipotent and beyond any criticism whatsoevr. How dare we complain about bias, they are not at all biased, they are following their own agenda, endorsed and promoted by London.
Chris Patten probably threw Alex Salmonds dossier in the fire, much like Cameron throwing Salmonds demands for greater control, into the same fire.
We are dismissed by London as quarralsome Scots and their attitude will not change. Witness just how long it took them to wake up to the SNP’s massive victory last May.
As for the BBC, without a short sharp shock they will in no way acknowledge their failures.
Hitting them in the pocket is the only way they might, just might, take notice. Even a mass protest outside Pathetic Key will not work unless, the worlds media is invited to watch.
I think the world’s media should be made aware of the disgusting bias of the BBC and the press.
Maybe we should write letters to foreign newspapers or have a peaceful protest at events where the world’s media will be covering. The outside world should be made aware of the suppression of news and distortion by the media here who attempt to influence the public to support their unionist agenda.
#
2012-03-14 09:57
I listen to BBC radio during the night. No mention is made of BBC Scotland. I rely on Newsnet to keep me informed. I have newsnet on my facebook so i get more information I can feel the frustration from the forum
New on newsnet I wish yoy all well from Australia. Skelf
New on newsnet I wish yoy all well from Australia. Skelf
#
2012-03-12 08:47
Hi there,
So if an Independent Scotland would have to rely on England to bail out “our” banks, who is England relying on just now?
Not themselves. They’re bankrupt.
Europe anybody?
bbc.co.uk/…/…
An Independent Scotland would have had the resources to bail out its own banks and not be reliant on anybody. Either that or we could have done what Iceland did – and leave them to go under, a probably better idea given the banks’ behaviour since having been bailed out.
And as for the BBC, they’re just completely beyond the pale, to where they should be expelled after Independence.
Regards,
So if an Independent Scotland would have to rely on England to bail out “our” banks, who is England relying on just now?
Not themselves. They’re bankrupt.
Europe anybody?
bbc.co.uk/…/…
An Independent Scotland would have had the resources to bail out its own banks and not be reliant on anybody. Either that or we could have done what Iceland did – and leave them to go under, a probably better idea given the banks’ behaviour since having been bailed out.
And as for the BBC, they’re just completely beyond the pale, to where they should be expelled after Independence.
Regards,
#
2012-03-12 09:06
How did the UK Government bail out the banks under their control?? Simple, they borrowed the money.
Their is an implicit suggestion in all this guff by the anti independence parties, that London had the bail out money handily lying around in a big bank vault in London. It ididn’t, it had to borrow the money.
AS was shown across Europe, Scotland would as an independent country have been responsible for the debts which RBS generated in Scotland. The bulk of its debts were generated elsewhere – England (city of London).
Had Scotland been independent, it would have borrowed the money, just like London did (if it had no oil fund) in order to pay ITS SHARE of the SCOTTISH generated debts.
Interestingly, I see the Herald is running with a piece of rank hypocrisy by Darling this morning, once again trying to blame Alex Salmond for the collapse of RBS.
Here is a wee quiz for the Labour party.
1. Who authorised the takeover of ABN AMRO by RBS?
A. Alistair Darling, as Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer.
2. Which chancellor of the Exchequer had Fred Goodwin as an economic adviser?
A. Alistair Darling, as Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer.
It beggars belief that Darling, who at the time had full control over the actions of ALL UK Banks, is openly criticising Alex Salmond, who at the time, and still to this day has NO control over ANY banks either in Scotland, the UK or elsewhere.
Is this selective amnesia yet again on the part of Labour and Alistair Darling??
Their is an implicit suggestion in all this guff by the anti independence parties, that London had the bail out money handily lying around in a big bank vault in London. It ididn’t, it had to borrow the money.
AS was shown across Europe, Scotland would as an independent country have been responsible for the debts which RBS generated in Scotland. The bulk of its debts were generated elsewhere – England (city of London).
Had Scotland been independent, it would have borrowed the money, just like London did (if it had no oil fund) in order to pay ITS SHARE of the SCOTTISH generated debts.
Interestingly, I see the Herald is running with a piece of rank hypocrisy by Darling this morning, once again trying to blame Alex Salmond for the collapse of RBS.
Here is a wee quiz for the Labour party.
1. Who authorised the takeover of ABN AMRO by RBS?
A. Alistair Darling, as Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer.
2. Which chancellor of the Exchequer had Fred Goodwin as an economic adviser?
A. Alistair Darling, as Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer.
It beggars belief that Darling, who at the time had full control over the actions of ALL UK Banks, is openly criticising Alex Salmond, who at the time, and still to this day has NO control over ANY banks either in Scotland, the UK or elsewhere.
Is this selective amnesia yet again on the part of Labour and Alistair Darling??
#
2012-03-12 13:48
Don’t forget these questions either R.L.
1) Who gave Fred Goodwin his Knighthood?
A. Gordon Brown, Labour
2) Who was most vociferous in demanding the removal of Fred Goodwin’s Knighthood?
A. Ed Milliband, Labour.
Labour, the party that stinks of mediocrity!
1) Who gave Fred Goodwin his Knighthood?
A. Gordon Brown, Labour
2) Who was most vociferous in demanding the removal of Fred Goodwin’s Knighthood?
A. Ed Milliband, Labour.
Labour, the party that stinks of mediocrity!
#
2012-03-12 16:24
Alistair Darling is first and foremost a Labour politician. He will twist the known facts and tell the lie until when everybody has heard it enough, they’ll believe it. (he hopes)
#
2012-03-12 17:28
RL
Quote:
Yes the UK Government had to borrow the money and asked the banks to arrange the loans from the money markets. Then the banks charged the Government fees for arranging the loans!!!
Quote:
Their is an implicit suggestion in all this guff by the anti independence parties, that London had the bail out money handily lying around in a big bank vault in London. It ididn’t, it had to borrow the money.
Yes the UK Government had to borrow the money and asked the banks to arrange the loans from the money markets. Then the banks charged the Government fees for arranging the loans!!!
#
2012-03-12 20:56
An independent Scotland would also have had its own Financial Regulator doing a proper job of monitoring the banks’ activities instead of the FSA which Brown set up and which didnt bother to monitor anything. Neither did Brown and that is where the financial mess came from.
#
2012-03-12 08:47
We need to picket the BBC during and up to the referendum.
We need to shame them in the eyes of the world. The BBC acts Syrian State Television from where I’m standing.
We need to shame them in the eyes of the world. The BBC acts Syrian State Television from where I’m standing.
#
2012-03-12 10:48
Quoting frankyB:
This may be of interest frankyB.
www.facebook.com/…/
We need to picket the BBC during and up to the referendum.
We need to shame them in the eyes of the world. The BBC acts Syrian State Television from where I’m standing.
This may be of interest frankyB.
www.facebook.com/…/
#
2012-03-12 08:55
They should be ashamed of themselves mis-representing both accepted financial facts and the words of an interviewee.
#
2012-03-12 10:22
Recognise the BBC for what it is, simply the propaganda arm of the Union.
Know your enemy.
Know your enemy.
#
2012-03-12 17:29
Glue can come unstuck over time and it is clear that the BBC is in that position now.
#
2012-03-12 09:17
You’ll know them by their deeds: allmediascotland.com/…/…
“John Boothman has worked in a variety of senior roles within news and current affairs over a 26-year career at the BBC and has been particularly involved in the production of political programming following the establishment of the Scottish Parliament.
“Latterly he has been Editor of Newsgathering, and among his credits during that time was winning Royal Television Society Scoop of the Year for 2010, as producer of the story which detailed the release of Lockerbie bomber, Abdelbasset al-Megrahi. He also executive produced the BAFTA Scotland-nominated Wasted Nation documentary and debate programme in 2009. Wacht it here: www.imdb.com/title/tt1608271/
“During his previous roles as Editor of Elections and Political Output, he oversaw coverage and result programmes of four Scottish elections, three General Elections, two European Parliament elections along with annual coverage of Scottish party political conferences.
“….and produced Reporting Scotland for several years.”
The statement quotes Boothman, as saying: “…I’m looking forward to ensuring that BBC Scotland continues to deliver it across all our platforms and for all our audiences.”
(Please notice the it)
And by their friends:
Educated at Musselburgh Grammar School, she completed an MA (Hons) in Social Policy and Politics at Edinburgh University and later an MBA. She joined the Labour Party at 17 while still at school and, as a student, was a campaigner against apartheid, nuclear disarmament and a supporter of the miners’ strike. She was vice president of Edinburgh University Students’ Representative Council, chair of Scottish Labour Students and rose rapidly through Labour ranks serving on the Scottish Labour Party’s National Executive and playing a leading role in Edinburgh City politics during the 1980s. She was a founder member of the pro-devolution Labour pressure group, Scottish Labour Action, which campaigned for non-payment against the poll tax and pressed the Labour Party into join the Scottish Constitutional Convention.
She began her career in local government in 1987 where she worked as in both research and management roles within West Lothian and then East Lothian district councils. In 1994 Deacon joined Eglinton Management Centre in Edinburgh, as a senior training consultant, and then became director of MBA programmes at Edinburgh Business School, at Heriot Watt University. Following the birth of her first child, she worked as a business consultant and organised several major national policy conferences in the run-up to Scottish devolution.
During her time as Health Minister, Deacon led major changes in the governance and leadership of the National Health Service in Scotland and championed reforms in child health, mental health and older people’s care. She was responsible for the first Scottish Health Plan, which laid many foundations upon which subsequent health policy in Scotland has been built, though she is known to have been angered by what she dubbed as Jack McConnell’s “Day Zero” approach [5] on taking office which she claimed meant a loss of momentum in delivering improvements in the NHS in Scotland.
A critic of the flagship policy of free personal care, she argued against its introduction saying future costs were unknown and may not be sustainable – a view rejected by the Scottish Parliament. She won plaudits for her strong stance against militant anti-abortion campaigners, though was criticised by the Roman Catholic Church for her position on issues such as teenage pregnancy and contraception.
Read more here: en.wikipedia.org/…/…
Since leaving Parliament, Deacon has stepped back from party politics while continuing to be an active player in wider public policy debate and an occasional political commentator
In June 2010, Deacon was appointed by the SNP Scottish Government’s Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning to ‘champion’ the importance of children’s early years and “to lead a wide-ranging, national dialogue on how best to take action to improve children’s early years of life.”
Now form your own conclusions.
“John Boothman has worked in a variety of senior roles within news and current affairs over a 26-year career at the BBC and has been particularly involved in the production of political programming following the establishment of the Scottish Parliament.
“Latterly he has been Editor of Newsgathering, and among his credits during that time was winning Royal Television Society Scoop of the Year for 2010, as producer of the story which detailed the release of Lockerbie bomber, Abdelbasset al-Megrahi. He also executive produced the BAFTA Scotland-nominated Wasted Nation documentary and debate programme in 2009. Wacht it here: www.imdb.com/title/tt1608271/
“During his previous roles as Editor of Elections and Political Output, he oversaw coverage and result programmes of four Scottish elections, three General Elections, two European Parliament elections along with annual coverage of Scottish party political conferences.
“….and produced Reporting Scotland for several years.”
The statement quotes Boothman, as saying: “…I’m looking forward to ensuring that BBC Scotland continues to deliver it across all our platforms and for all our audiences.”
(Please notice the it)
And by their friends:
Educated at Musselburgh Grammar School, she completed an MA (Hons) in Social Policy and Politics at Edinburgh University and later an MBA. She joined the Labour Party at 17 while still at school and, as a student, was a campaigner against apartheid, nuclear disarmament and a supporter of the miners’ strike. She was vice president of Edinburgh University Students’ Representative Council, chair of Scottish Labour Students and rose rapidly through Labour ranks serving on the Scottish Labour Party’s National Executive and playing a leading role in Edinburgh City politics during the 1980s. She was a founder member of the pro-devolution Labour pressure group, Scottish Labour Action, which campaigned for non-payment against the poll tax and pressed the Labour Party into join the Scottish Constitutional Convention.
She began her career in local government in 1987 where she worked as in both research and management roles within West Lothian and then East Lothian district councils. In 1994 Deacon joined Eglinton Management Centre in Edinburgh, as a senior training consultant, and then became director of MBA programmes at Edinburgh Business School, at Heriot Watt University. Following the birth of her first child, she worked as a business consultant and organised several major national policy conferences in the run-up to Scottish devolution.
During her time as Health Minister, Deacon led major changes in the governance and leadership of the National Health Service in Scotland and championed reforms in child health, mental health and older people’s care. She was responsible for the first Scottish Health Plan, which laid many foundations upon which subsequent health policy in Scotland has been built, though she is known to have been angered by what she dubbed as Jack McConnell’s “Day Zero” approach [5] on taking office which she claimed meant a loss of momentum in delivering improvements in the NHS in Scotland.
A critic of the flagship policy of free personal care, she argued against its introduction saying future costs were unknown and may not be sustainable – a view rejected by the Scottish Parliament. She won plaudits for her strong stance against militant anti-abortion campaigners, though was criticised by the Roman Catholic Church for her position on issues such as teenage pregnancy and contraception.
Read more here: en.wikipedia.org/…/…
Since leaving Parliament, Deacon has stepped back from party politics while continuing to be an active player in wider public policy debate and an occasional political commentator
In June 2010, Deacon was appointed by the SNP Scottish Government’s Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning to ‘champion’ the importance of children’s early years and “to lead a wide-ranging, national dialogue on how best to take action to improve children’s early years of life.”
Now form your own conclusions.
#
2012-03-12 09:25
Hi All,
Cant we sue them for “telling lies”
Be a good time to sneak into Blether Friday meet and ask why he lied to the public with this headline, see what happens, doesn’t have to be a question just stick your hand up during topics conversation
Happy days!!
Cant we sue them for “telling lies”
Be a good time to sneak into Blether Friday meet and ask why he lied to the public with this headline, see what happens, doesn’t have to be a question just stick your hand up during topics conversation
Happy days!!
#
2012-03-12 09:36
Is it any coincidence that today the not quite so new ‘improved’ scotsman.com seems to have gone into meltdown the day after the weekend’s spectacularly successful SNP Conference.
It seems to be very convenient that reporting of the conference in the on-line paper and the ability to comment thereupon is not possible as the usual AIB bunch of cretins would only have made even bigger than usual fools of themselves in criticising the display of sheer quality and competence on display which was in such contrast to the previous weekend’s poorly attended moaning sessions.
It seems to be very convenient that reporting of the conference in the on-line paper and the ability to comment thereupon is not possible as the usual AIB bunch of cretins would only have made even bigger than usual fools of themselves in criticising the display of sheer quality and competence on display which was in such contrast to the previous weekend’s poorly attended moaning sessions.
#
2012-03-12 09:38
The phone number to complain about the BBC has been posted here before and i have used it but, stupidly, forgot to keep a note of it. Can anyone oblige?
I prefer phoning and asking for a written reply, you don’t always get a reply when you do it online
I prefer phoning and asking for a written reply, you don’t always get a reply when you do it online
#
2012-03-12 14:55
Quoting snowthistle:
03700 100 333, I think – can’t read my own writing:-)
The phone number to complain about the BBC has been posted here before and i have used it but, stupidly, forgot to keep a note of it. Can anyone oblige?
I prefer phoning and asking for a written reply, you don’t always get a reply when you do it online
03700 100 333, I think – can’t read my own writing:-)
#
2012-03-12 09:46
Democracy Live Site
“Who’s who by party” Not showing Scotlsnd’s parties SNP largest below is the reply from BBC.
Thank you for contacting us.
Your comments were passed to the Head of News, who has asked that I forward his response as follows:
“Thank you for getting in touch.
The reason the state of the parties is not shown in Scotland at the moment is the graphic designers showed the 2007 election results in error. We removed it as soon as this was highlighted.
We are currently working on a new design for 2012″.
Thank you, once again, for taking the time to contact us.
I posted this on another story but just to remind people about the BBC.
“Who’s who by party” Not showing Scotlsnd’s parties SNP largest below is the reply from BBC.
Thank you for contacting us.
Your comments were passed to the Head of News, who has asked that I forward his response as follows:
“Thank you for getting in touch.
The reason the state of the parties is not shown in Scotland at the moment is the graphic designers showed the 2007 election results in error. We removed it as soon as this was highlighted.
We are currently working on a new design for 2012″.
Thank you, once again, for taking the time to contact us.
I posted this on another story but just to remind people about the BBC.
#
2012-03-12 10:43
That was so long ago .. and they still have not replaced it.
I get the impression that there are so many bitter and resentful Labour connected people at the BBC that they can’t bare to look at a graphic correctly depicting the SNP majority at Holyrood.
I get the impression that there are so many bitter and resentful Labour connected people at the BBC that they can’t bare to look at a graphic correctly depicting the SNP majority at Holyrood.
#
2012-03-12 10:08
re. Scotsman – it works sporadically. Can’t see a proper report of the SNP conference on the fron page but:
In a continuation of the “Salmond dictator” line it has this as it’s lead story:”
Scottish independence: SNP army primed for independence assault
“THE SNP has unveiled the full extent of its massive grass-roots operation to win the argument in favour of independence, with an “unprecedented mobilisation” of members to bombard radio phone-ins, persuade strangers of the merits of secession and use social networking sites to spread the Nationalist message.”
The Scotsman accusing Salmond of a propaganda war, oh irony.
In a continuation of the “Salmond dictator” line it has this as it’s lead story:”
Scottish independence: SNP army primed for independence assault
“THE SNP has unveiled the full extent of its massive grass-roots operation to win the argument in favour of independence, with an “unprecedented mobilisation” of members to bombard radio phone-ins, persuade strangers of the merits of secession and use social networking sites to spread the Nationalist message.”
The Scotsman accusing Salmond of a propaganda war, oh irony.
#
2012-03-12 10:11
Did anyone see the headline at the weekend on the ebc about “Nationalists cheered by Salmond’s speech”?
As a card-carrying member of the Scottish National Party, I certainly dont need ‘cheered’. the First Eck just put the ‘wind beneath our wings’. Certainly the morale in the SNP in Moray Constituency couldn’t be higher and I’m sure it’s reflected throughout Scotland. We’re raring to go so ebc, dont try that bit of nonsense on us. It wont work. You are a bunch of self-serving nincompoops and your day will come. You only get off with this kind of behaviour for so long and then…
As a card-carrying member of the Scottish National Party, I certainly dont need ‘cheered’. the First Eck just put the ‘wind beneath our wings’. Certainly the morale in the SNP in Moray Constituency couldn’t be higher and I’m sure it’s reflected throughout Scotland. We’re raring to go so ebc, dont try that bit of nonsense on us. It wont work. You are a bunch of self-serving nincompoops and your day will come. You only get off with this kind of behaviour for so long and then…
#
2012-03-13 13:37
Nice to meetcha fellow Moray member. Make yourself known at the branch meeting. My other half is the one that never misses an opporchancity to promote Newsnet
#
2012-03-12 10:13
I know you are all very busy but how about a special newsnet page detailing the major incidents of BBC negative reporting in recent months? It could be a point of reference that we could refer interested scottish citizens to.
#
2012-03-12 10:13
Issue should also be taken with Isobel Fraser’s harranging of Alex Salmond yesterday on the currency question and the Bank of England’s role in an independent Scotland. Her incessant questioning on the subject made her look like bumb and dumber when she would not accept Salmond’s comprehensive explanation of the subject which he had to repeat several times for her benefit.
Her persistence looked as though she was working to a programmed BBC agenda to try to wrongfoot Salmond.
Her persistence looked as though she was working to a programmed BBC agenda to try to wrongfoot Salmond.
#
2012-03-12 19:01
I’m not usually inclined to defend the BBC for obvious reasons but on the whole I think Isobel Fraser is a fair minded interviewer. The problem is if the medias proper role (easy to forget currently) is to hold politicians to account then it’s fair to ask the question until its been answered. You could look at it in a different way in that it gave Mr Salmond several attempts to put across his point to the viewer 😉
The BBC is not fit for purpose and needs to change but I don’t think Ms Fraser is part of the problem. If anything she is the best interviewer they have as she routinely asks difficult questions of the AIP politicians.
If and (hopefully) when the changes start to ring for BBC Scotland there should be a lot of people held to account but as far as I’m concerned she’s not one of them.
The BBC is not fit for purpose and needs to change but I don’t think Ms Fraser is part of the problem. If anything she is the best interviewer they have as she routinely asks difficult questions of the AIP politicians.
If and (hopefully) when the changes start to ring for BBC Scotland there should be a lot of people held to account but as far as I’m concerned she’s not one of them.
#
2012-03-12 19:21
I agree. Opposition parties should hold governments to account, but those in Scotland are simply incompetent.
In the absence of decent opposition, we need TV interviewers to ask the difficult questions.
Of course the questioning needs to be precise, persistent and polite! Isobel Fraser does that.
In the absence of decent opposition, we need TV interviewers to ask the difficult questions.
Of course the questioning needs to be precise, persistent and polite! Isobel Fraser does that.
#
2012-03-12 23:07
Do you realize how you’re painting the rest if naming Isobel their best?
I’m sure you do, my question is rethoric.
I’m sure you do, my question is rethoric.
#
2012-03-12 10:15
twitter.com/#!/bbcmarksimpson
BBCMarkSimpson Irish rugby fan to Scottish fan after 6 Nations match in Dublin: “What does SNP stand for? Is it Still No Points?”
BBCMarkSimpson Irish rugby fan to Scottish fan after 6 Nations match in Dublin: “What does SNP stand for? Is it Still No Points?”
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2012-03-12 10:17
Good Morning Scotland was up to its usual standard of editing and selective broadcast. It made out that the weekend conference was solely and mainly about Independence, no mention of council elections and no mention of proposals related to councils.
They had Taylor and the ‘political editor’ of the Sunday Post on to provide their joint and couthy wisdom. Again ignoring anything to do with council elections. Interesting though they Sunday Post man did acknoeledge that the attendance of the ‘SNP faithful’ was far more than attended both Labour and Libdem conferences the weekend before, puting a figure of 600 inside the main SECC hall and 400 in ‘another ajoining hall’
Is there actual attendance figures available?
They had Taylor and the ‘political editor’ of the Sunday Post on to provide their joint and couthy wisdom. Again ignoring anything to do with council elections. Interesting though they Sunday Post man did acknoeledge that the attendance of the ‘SNP faithful’ was far more than attended both Labour and Libdem conferences the weekend before, puting a figure of 600 inside the main SECC hall and 400 in ‘another ajoining hall’
Is there actual attendance figures available?
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2012-03-12 11:43
Between 0700 – 0730 more time spent reporting on what people buy for their babies, etc. than on SNP conference.
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2012-03-12 17:18
The main hall could have hels between 600 – 1000 and the 4 overflows would easily have held 100 each so not so inaccurate in my estimation. Brian Taylor had a face like a skelped ar*e as he was probably upset that anyone attended.
We need a bigger hall next time. The great thing is that no one was coerced into attending and it created a fantastic atmosphere. It was just a grouping together of “friends” and that made it special. All the big guns were there and I shouted “Angus” across the reception and Angus Robertson MP came over and talked to me and Mrs Saltire Groppenslosh for a while. That’s how you do it. From top to bottom, everyone is given their voice. (:D)
I highly recommend that everyone on here gets to the next conference (book early to avoid disappointment y’all). You will be made to feel welcome.
We need a bigger hall next time. The great thing is that no one was coerced into attending and it created a fantastic atmosphere. It was just a grouping together of “friends” and that made it special. All the big guns were there and I shouted “Angus” across the reception and Angus Robertson MP came over and talked to me and Mrs Saltire Groppenslosh for a while. That’s how you do it. From top to bottom, everyone is given their voice. (:D)
I highly recommend that everyone on here gets to the next conference (book early to avoid disappointment y’all). You will be made to feel welcome.
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2012-03-13 03:37
I could’ve had a rare time at the SECC at the weekend. The SNP conference + the Knitting and Stitching show. Pity I was skint!
I saw on the Scottish group on Raverly there was a wee photo of one of the Rav ladies with oor Nicola, both wi giant smiles! Apparently Nicola was buying knitting needles, glad to see we share the same hobby – knitting has a calming and relaxing effect on folk. Maybe that’s how she can handle the BBC?
I saw on the Scottish group on Raverly there was a wee photo of one of the Rav ladies with oor Nicola, both wi giant smiles! Apparently Nicola was buying knitting needles, glad to see we share the same hobby – knitting has a calming and relaxing effect on folk. Maybe that’s how she can handle the BBC?
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2012-03-12 17:46
I wondered that too! Compare it to the other parties and see who has the most going!
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2012-03-12 10:19
The issue over potential harm during the referendum debate and vote, such as bias and partiality by the BBC has already been raised with the appropriate European bodies who oversee the UK’s endorsement of the Vienna Convention. This was done only a couple of months ago by the Scottish Democratic Alliance.
I don’t know what, if any, feedback has been received on this. I sincerely hope that the matter will be taken seriously by these bodies.
Perhaps the SDA can update on this?
I don’t know what, if any, feedback has been received on this. I sincerely hope that the matter will be taken seriously by these bodies.
Perhaps the SDA can update on this?
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2012-03-12 21:59
Barontorc, the issue is being taken seriously by the CoE and OSCE. The first stage of such an action is to contact the government concerned, in this case the UK, to ask for its observations on the submission. That is the stage we are at for the moment.
We must bear in mind that the UK has the chairmanship of the Council of Europe’s Committee of Ministers until 14 May. This was the principal reason why the SDA adopted the Scotland-UN tactic of “saturation bombing” all the individual member governments with copies of the Memorandum, in order to ensure that it could not be swept under the carpet. There is not the same danger with the OSCE, which is under Irish chairmanship till the end of the year.
Both of these major international organisations have an interest in monitoring the referendum, because they cannot keep pressure on the former Communist reform countries of eastern Europe to maintain strict standards of pluralist democracy while relaxing their standards for Western member states. They have just finished monitoring the Russian presidential election, when they uncovered quite a lot of very undemocratic practices – albeit not enough to nullify the result.
We know that William Hague and the Coalition are not amused by the SDA action in Strasbourg and Vienna, and we know that Ruth Davidson and the Scottish Tories have been contacted over the SDA Memo. However, the matter is now in the hands of the CoE and OSCE specialist departments. It will take some time yet to collate a consensus on the matter, and possibly even longer to persuade the London government to agree to international monitoring without anyone having to force the issue, as the CoE had to do over devolution. Discreet diplomacy is always tried first.
So, for the meantime, the international diplomatic wheels are turning at their usual leisurely speed. The SDA will be backing up its original submission with additional information from time to time in the light of the campaign, just to keep the pot boiling, but you can rest assured that its shot across the bows has already had an effect, and more will be heard of it. If it is any comparison, the time bomb that the Scotland-UN Committee planted in Strasbourg in 1993 took several years to explode. I think that this one will go off a lot sooner.
Incidentally, the CoE/OSCE Memorandum is now in the Scotland in Europe section of the SDA web site, as is my article on Devolution and the Labour Myth.
We must bear in mind that the UK has the chairmanship of the Council of Europe’s Committee of Ministers until 14 May. This was the principal reason why the SDA adopted the Scotland-UN tactic of “saturation bombing” all the individual member governments with copies of the Memorandum, in order to ensure that it could not be swept under the carpet. There is not the same danger with the OSCE, which is under Irish chairmanship till the end of the year.
Both of these major international organisations have an interest in monitoring the referendum, because they cannot keep pressure on the former Communist reform countries of eastern Europe to maintain strict standards of pluralist democracy while relaxing their standards for Western member states. They have just finished monitoring the Russian presidential election, when they uncovered quite a lot of very undemocratic practices – albeit not enough to nullify the result.
We know that William Hague and the Coalition are not amused by the SDA action in Strasbourg and Vienna, and we know that Ruth Davidson and the Scottish Tories have been contacted over the SDA Memo. However, the matter is now in the hands of the CoE and OSCE specialist departments. It will take some time yet to collate a consensus on the matter, and possibly even longer to persuade the London government to agree to international monitoring without anyone having to force the issue, as the CoE had to do over devolution. Discreet diplomacy is always tried first.
So, for the meantime, the international diplomatic wheels are turning at their usual leisurely speed. The SDA will be backing up its original submission with additional information from time to time in the light of the campaign, just to keep the pot boiling, but you can rest assured that its shot across the bows has already had an effect, and more will be heard of it. If it is any comparison, the time bomb that the Scotland-UN Committee planted in Strasbourg in 1993 took several years to explode. I think that this one will go off a lot sooner.
Incidentally, the CoE/OSCE Memorandum is now in the Scotland in Europe section of the SDA web site, as is my article on Devolution and the Labour Myth.
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2012-03-12 10:22
The BBC is in reality the voice of London in Scotland, rather than the voice of Scotland. If I turn on BBC then it is normally Radio nan Gaidheal and I often watch BBC Alba. I do not believe any news item from BBC as I know their lazy journalists don’t do any real checking of facts.
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2012-03-12 10:26
Saoilidh mi gur e deagh phrogram a th’ann an Eorpa cuideachd. If only BBC Beurla were as good at finding news in Scotland as the Alba squad are in finding interesting material in Europe/Eorpa.
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2012-03-12 10:28
It comes as Chairman of the BBC Trust Chris Patten looks into allegations of questionable behaviour by the BBC contained in a dossier handed to him by the Scottish Government.
I think that dossier will be in the bin by now, Patten is too busy dining in Soho’s finest with his political chums. The idea that the BBC Trust is run by a politician and the head of BBC news in Scotland is worse, he’s a political activist – makes a mockery of the whole impartial line that they spin.
I think that dossier will be in the bin by now, Patten is too busy dining in Soho’s finest with his political chums. The idea that the BBC Trust is run by a politician and the head of BBC news in Scotland is worse, he’s a political activist – makes a mockery of the whole impartial line that they spin.
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2012-03-12 10:28
The paucity of coverage of the SNP conference by BBC Scotland yesterday, when they are only a 5 minute walk from the conference centre speaks volumes about the BBC’s agenda on Scottish politics.
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2012-03-12 10:29
On this mornings CBBC Newsround there was a report about a charity in Glasgow which arranges supervised play in order to keep kids safe while playing outside. Filmed in Barrowfield the report is quite upbeat but the portrayal of Barrowfield is the usual stereotypical stuff.
www.bbc.co.uk/…/13877119
It starts about 01.8 in and is only a couple of minutes long
When they scan the area in the introduction it is filmed in black and white.
www.bbc.co.uk/…/13877119
It starts about 01.8 in and is only a couple of minutes long
When they scan the area in the introduction it is filmed in black and white.
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2012-03-12 15:05
Quoting snowthistle:
I know this part well–grew up a couple of miles away,and Mum and Dad still there.
The usual film clips of desolation which give us no credit at all.
On this mornings CBBC Newsround there was a report about a charity in Glasgow which arranges supervised play in order to keep kids safe while playing outside. Filmed in Barrowfield the report is quite upbeat but the portrayal of Barrowfield is the usual stereotypical stuff.
www.bbc.co.uk/…/13877119
It starts about 01.8 in and is only a couple of minutes long
When they scan the area in the introduction it is filmed in black and white.
I know this part well–grew up a couple of miles away,and Mum and Dad still there.
The usual film clips of desolation which give us no credit at all.
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2012-03-12 10:32
I noticed in today’s Herald there was a ‘news’ item, and a longer article, featuring A. Darling. In the ‘news’ item he was castigating Mr Salmond for his ‘support’ of RBS in the ABN AMbro takeover. Much of this rests on an obvious over-interpretation of a short letter from Mr Salmond to Sir, now Mr, Fred Goodwin
Clearly the theme of the week from the Unionist camp is going to be banking.
Clearly the theme of the week from the Unionist camp is going to be banking.
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2012-03-12 11:32
I did post a reply to the one comment on there first thing this morning but all comments appear to have disappeared.
I assume this is because Darling has been shown up to be suffering from selective memory loss regarding his own actions in the matter.
I assume this is because Darling has been shown up to be suffering from selective memory loss regarding his own actions in the matter.
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2012-03-12 14:55
Perfectly timed to coincide with the possibilty of Fred the Shred having an action taken against him in court.
It is ironic that Darling is castigating the SNP when it was his and Brown’s massive failure to regulate which has led us down this garden path.
PS: Going by the responses to Darling’s piece in the Herald, he is not being taken seriously. I have not seen one comment that supports what he is saying. The impression given is that he was a lame duck chancellor and now he is a lame duck non-entity. What he definitely is though is a mangler of the truth.
It is ironic that Darling is castigating the SNP when it was his and Brown’s massive failure to regulate which has led us down this garden path.
PS: Going by the responses to Darling’s piece in the Herald, he is not being taken seriously. I have not seen one comment that supports what he is saying. The impression given is that he was a lame duck chancellor and now he is a lame duck non-entity. What he definitely is though is a mangler of the truth.
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2012-03-12 16:56
Sorry been out all day hence the delay in responding.
Yes I did notice that that story about people suing Fred G was on the front page of the Herald.
I also noticed in my quick scan of the Darling story about AS that he said he, Darling, said he would like to take a more active role but he had his commitments to Parliament. Wondered if that was a sly did at GB and his non-appearance in the House of Commons.
I shall now head off to look at the on-line comments in the Herald – if they are still there.
Yes I did notice that that story about people suing Fred G was on the front page of the Herald.
I also noticed in my quick scan of the Darling story about AS that he said he, Darling, said he would like to take a more active role but he had his commitments to Parliament. Wondered if that was a sly did at GB and his non-appearance in the House of Commons.
I shall now head off to look at the on-line comments in the Herald – if they are still there.
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2012-03-12 10:40
As has been accurately pointed out, the BBC have self-diminished themselves to no more than being a propaganda wing of UK Unionism.
Truth, honesty and integrity have been jettisoned for anything, just anything, that might be seen to serve this cause.
If they had been so disgracefully deceitful in promoting Independence, the uproar would be deafening.
It can safely be assumed that the political desparation of Westminster and its accomplices, has been given free reign and any veneer of civilised debate long abandoned.
It’s going to be a long night, but every Free Nation has had to undergo something similar to achieve its Right to self determionation.
Truth, honesty and integrity have been jettisoned for anything, just anything, that might be seen to serve this cause.
If they had been so disgracefully deceitful in promoting Independence, the uproar would be deafening.
It can safely be assumed that the political desparation of Westminster and its accomplices, has been given free reign and any veneer of civilised debate long abandoned.
It’s going to be a long night, but every Free Nation has had to undergo something similar to achieve its Right to self determionation.
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2012-03-12 11:10
When is the protest at pathetic quay going to happen?i think that even if only 10% of NNS posters and readers turned up that would be great and would develop into a major story and red neck for the beeb,i may be wrong but i think it would be the first protest of its kind against them,and it also may get some international coverage,no bad thing,a large protest against them would certainly put the ebc on the back foot and let them know weve got their number,and that we are going to start exposing them to the eyes of the world.
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2012-03-12 11:22
We are hoping to meet and arrange dates for a first protest in the next few days. Please anyone who hasn’t done so like the page linked below to be kept informed of developments www.facebook.com/…/
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2012-03-12 15:07
I think that a protest at pacific quay would be an incredibly bad idea. They already portray us as raving cybernats who are trying to bully the brave BBC, Imagine what they will portray us as if they have “proof” of out bullying tactics. Our tactics are working well at the moment, partly because people do not believe that there is an army of cybernats who can be organised to do the bidding of the party (which is actually true). However if we can be shown to have organised an actual demonstration then they can say “look we told you, there they are, in the flesh. Do you believe us now?”.
Please do not organise any sort of demonstration, but please do continue to counter any propoganda that you hear.
John
Please do not organise any sort of demonstration, but please do continue to counter any propoganda that you hear.
John
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2012-03-12 17:44
I’m sorry, but the general consensus is that we need to take action. We will be well behaved, delegate a good speaker and try and get our message across.
We will do everything we can and hold prior discussions to make sure it’s done correctly and try and get other media outlets involved. Many of whom would be happy to criticise the BBC.
You are right of course to show concern and this has been noted.
We will do everything we can and hold prior discussions to make sure it’s done correctly and try and get other media outlets involved. Many of whom would be happy to criticise the BBC.
You are right of course to show concern and this has been noted.
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2012-03-13 00:21
The “general consensus” is a very poor reason for doing anything. Or at least it is for anyone who is prepared to think for themselves.
Any form of direct action will open a large can of worms, that will likely scare off more people than it will attract. The British media would love to portray us as some sort of lunatic brown shirt brigade.
Attacking the BBC before it is blatantly obvious that it is completely biased (to everyone) is just the sort of tactic that will give free rein to the media.
At the moment they are being held in check because most of the general population do not realise that there is a media battle going on. We are slowly winning this battle, because we only need to put doubt about the BBC in the minds of the public. Once that is done, we have won. The UK media can only win if they completely discredit us. Any sort of premature placard waving outside the BBC offices will hand them victory.
The way forwards is to slowly and surely chip away at the credibility of the BBC, and other media outlets, without opening ourselves up to the attack of being some sort of extremists. Putting a dossier in the hands of Patten is one step, replying to any and all online forums is another. the falling sales in the tree press is a clear sign that we are winning.
Think on this: we do not have a long earned place in the hearts of the Scottish people. the BBC does (in many at least). If we give them a choice now: believe us or them, who do you think that they will turn to? Let the elected politicians, who have the credibility, make the attacks. We need to continue to do what we have proved best at, and that is to inform.
John
Any form of direct action will open a large can of worms, that will likely scare off more people than it will attract. The British media would love to portray us as some sort of lunatic brown shirt brigade.
Attacking the BBC before it is blatantly obvious that it is completely biased (to everyone) is just the sort of tactic that will give free rein to the media.
At the moment they are being held in check because most of the general population do not realise that there is a media battle going on. We are slowly winning this battle, because we only need to put doubt about the BBC in the minds of the public. Once that is done, we have won. The UK media can only win if they completely discredit us. Any sort of premature placard waving outside the BBC offices will hand them victory.
The way forwards is to slowly and surely chip away at the credibility of the BBC, and other media outlets, without opening ourselves up to the attack of being some sort of extremists. Putting a dossier in the hands of Patten is one step, replying to any and all online forums is another. the falling sales in the tree press is a clear sign that we are winning.
Think on this: we do not have a long earned place in the hearts of the Scottish people. the BBC does (in many at least). If we give them a choice now: believe us or them, who do you think that they will turn to? Let the elected politicians, who have the credibility, make the attacks. We need to continue to do what we have proved best at, and that is to inform.
John
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2012-03-13 02:06
John.
Quote- “Attacking the BBC before it is blatantly obvious that it is completely biased (to everyone) is just the sort of tactic that will give free rein to the media.” – end quote.
I think you are correct, John.
Quote- “Attacking the BBC before it is blatantly obvious that it is completely biased (to everyone) is just the sort of tactic that will give free rein to the media.” – end quote.
I think you are correct, John.
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2012-03-13 13:39
We won’t be attacking the BBC. It will be a perfectly civilized and well thought out proccess.
You cannot necessarily say we are winning the battle because of newspaper sales. That could be any number of things.
Are we really slowly chipping away their credibility though? What we discredit them here? Okay you make a point on the posting on online newspapers etc. But we’re not even allowed to post on the BBC ones.
We will use tact, we will have a softly approach. But we will stand up for ourselves.
You cannot necessarily say we are winning the battle because of newspaper sales. That could be any number of things.
Are we really slowly chipping away their credibility though? What we discredit them here? Okay you make a point on the posting on online newspapers etc. But we’re not even allowed to post on the BBC ones.
We will use tact, we will have a softly approach. But we will stand up for ourselves.
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2012-03-13 14:08
Quote john_ “Please do not organise any sort of demonstration, but please do continue to counter any propoganda that you hear.”
Obviously we do counter propaganda. Telling individuals, blogging etc can only work so far. What is difficult to overcome is the mindset “it was on telly so it must be true”. We dont have the luxury of a television channel at our beck and call. The labour party does
Obviously we do counter propaganda. Telling individuals, blogging etc can only work so far. What is difficult to overcome is the mindset “it was on telly so it must be true”. We dont have the luxury of a television channel at our beck and call. The labour party does
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2012-03-12 11:30
I did see Brian Taylors interview with Nicola Sturgeon.She certainly did not say that an independent Scotland would depend on the UK to bail out failing Scottish Banks (should there be any).My impression was that she said that since Banks were international,s everal countries had a vested interest in supporting banks in trouble.Her point was that the burden is shared.
While the interview was relatively friendly,I did notice that Brian Taylor frequentely attempted to interrupt Nicola Sturgeon and was not really listening to her.He repeated question that she had already answered.It seemed as if he was lookin g for an answer that suited him.
While the interview was relatively friendly,I did notice that Brian Taylor frequentely attempted to interrupt Nicola Sturgeon and was not really listening to her.He repeated question that she had already answered.It seemed as if he was lookin g for an answer that suited him.
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2012-03-12 11:42
There seems to be a continuosly repeated fallacy in the press on this matter, where somehow taxpayers in Scotland would be financially responsible to bailout investors all over the world, for the failure of a private company.
While it might make sense to bail out investors in Scotland under such circumstances, there is absolutely nothing to be gained in forking out money to people in other countries.
Someone should refer Mr Taylor to Iceland’s response, “get stuffed”.
While it might make sense to bail out investors in Scotland under such circumstances, there is absolutely nothing to be gained in forking out money to people in other countries.
Someone should refer Mr Taylor to Iceland’s response, “get stuffed”.
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2012-03-12 11:31
There’s a kind of “what now for the BBC” article in the Guardian today where something might be said:
guardian.co.uk/…/…
I’ve had a go, but without taking much time to study the content of the article.
guardian.co.uk/…/…
I’ve had a go, but without taking much time to study the content of the article.
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2012-03-12 17:45
Just read some of the posts. The one by slippyjames is particularly good. Also noticed some posts with links to this article.
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2012-03-12 11:33
If this protest games place, I think it’s of the utmost importance to invite people such as STV and sky. They would love to portray the BBc as biased to help thier own viewing figures.
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2012-03-12 12:16
O/T
Does anyone know if Glasgow Herald censore comments?
I sent 2 comments yesterday; one was published, and the second one was not(it was about Labour not having any chance of winning any elections in near future as they could not even fill up a hall in Dundee for their spring conference).
I had not used an abusive language.
I sent my post several times but it never got published.
Does anyone know if Glasgow Herald censore comments?
I sent 2 comments yesterday; one was published, and the second one was not(it was about Labour not having any chance of winning any elections in near future as they could not even fill up a hall in Dundee for their spring conference).
I had not used an abusive language.
I sent my post several times but it never got published.
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2012-03-12 13:36
It sure does, some of the articles don’t show any comments until later in the evening, when they think nobody is reading anymore.
I’ve had plenty comments binned.
I’ve had plenty comments binned.
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2012-03-12 21:50
They say’until we know you well we’ll look at your comment before publishing’ – well once they know you well they still keep looking at your comment first, in case you say anything positive about independence.I find that anything posted at the weekend or in the evening just gets binned – but the rabid unionists make it into print pretty swiftly! Anything criticising editorial stance or bias also gets binned.
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2012-03-12 13:02
Seriously, something has to be done about this. People should start demos outside the BBC Scotland offices and complain about the mediocre news coverage and spin which these weasels specialize in. A total disgrace.
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2012-03-12 14:35
yes.. I am, I was going to direct you to our facebook page if you were interested for exactly that.. A demo outside the BBC Scotland office is coming soon.
well here it is anyway.
at least it’s on topic 😉
www.facebook.com/…/
well here it is anyway.
at least it’s on topic 😉
www.facebook.com/…/
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2012-03-12 18:54
Hey, thanks a lot, I’ll add myself to that page. Glad to see the demo will happen, not sure if I can make it as I’m in Auld Reekie and quite busy but you have my support.
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2012-03-13 21:19
auld reekie!!!!!! we here are in rural Aberdeenshire and we are busy but by hell we will make it down
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2012-03-12 13:06
I hadnt seen this podcast until you highlighted it in this article. It is an absolute disgrace, possibly the worst and most blatant distortions I’ve seen yet from the BBC. I’ve lodged a complaint but no doubt it will simply get the editor in question a pat on the back for keeping up the good anti-indpendence work and get me one of their meaningless off-the-shelf answers.
I just wish there was someone with the wherewithall that would take them to court for breaching their charter obligation to be completely unbiased.
I just wish there was someone with the wherewithall that would take them to court for breaching their charter obligation to be completely unbiased.
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2012-03-12 15:02
I think a complaint has to come directly from Nicola Sturgeon. The BBC cannot ignore that. If the BBC are manufacturing lies they have to be forced into an apology. The SNP could apply the Ally McCoist tactic and refuse them any more interviews until they apologise. If this oxygen is removed from Brain (Sic) Taylor and his line management it will put the BBC into crisis.
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2012-03-12 15:19
I agree with everything said on this BBC topic,but remember there are people out there who would wish nothing better than the independence movement to cry foul,and create a stushie.
Would ‘make their day’,when really they are devoid of positive,imagin itive proposals for Scotland.
Keep focused,with eye on the ball and the ballot box.
Would ‘make their day’,when really they are devoid of positive,imagin itive proposals for Scotland.
Keep focused,with eye on the ball and the ballot box.
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2012-03-12 17:39
• Dundonian West
I think you are absolutely right.
The spin that would result in the media if there is an ANTI- BBC demonstration will put the spin in the above article in the shade.
One almost gets the feeling that the BBC is encouraging a ‘stushie’ to happen,- and YES, – I think that for many of them- it would “MAKE THEIR DAY”.
NEWSNET is going along a great path by informing people of the BBC’s record and highlighting the political backgrounds of some of their political news staff. Newsnet has many passing visitors- and the word IS getting out there.
As Caledonian Lass suggested, Highlighting this bias to the Foreign Press and possibly impartial international observers may be the way forward..
The Facebook page is also a good idea, but I don’t think (AT THIS STAGE) a protest will have a ‘positive’ impact.
I think you are absolutely right.
The spin that would result in the media if there is an ANTI- BBC demonstration will put the spin in the above article in the shade.
One almost gets the feeling that the BBC is encouraging a ‘stushie’ to happen,- and YES, – I think that for many of them- it would “MAKE THEIR DAY”.
NEWSNET is going along a great path by informing people of the BBC’s record and highlighting the political backgrounds of some of their political news staff. Newsnet has many passing visitors- and the word IS getting out there.
As Caledonian Lass suggested, Highlighting this bias to the Foreign Press and possibly impartial international observers may be the way forward..
The Facebook page is also a good idea, but I don’t think (AT THIS STAGE) a protest will have a ‘positive’ impact.
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2012-03-13 21:23
how do you think we can make the international observors take note if we dont demonstrate. Let me tell you it takes guts determination and endeavour to make a protest. If done peacefully more can be achieved rather thatn complaining from our comuter screens.
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2012-03-14 00:41
Dogcollar.
Thanks for your insight and opinion.
I’m sure many on this site including myself have ‘considerable’ experience of the ‘guts, determination and endeavour’ required in supporting the independence movement over the years, – protests included!!
A demonstration against the BBC (at this point in time) will be ‘manna from heaven’ for the MSM in Scotland. The ridicule and distortion that will result from reporting the ‘event’ will be counterproducti ve and could actually harm the good work done to date. – This is my opinion!
Thanks for your insight and opinion.
I’m sure many on this site including myself have ‘considerable’ experience of the ‘guts, determination and endeavour’ required in supporting the independence movement over the years, – protests included!!
A demonstration against the BBC (at this point in time) will be ‘manna from heaven’ for the MSM in Scotland. The ridicule and distortion that will result from reporting the ‘event’ will be counterproducti ve and could actually harm the good work done to date. – This is my opinion!
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2012-03-12 13:31
The BBC were very selective with their report on Nicola’s interview with Taylor.
They ‘inadvertently’ missed out the part where she pointed out that jurisdictions in which any bank operated would be responsible for any losses incurred.
It obviously does not suit their agenda to give that knowledge to the public, preferring instead to propagate the Westminster lie that an independent Scotland would have borne the debt burden on it’s own.
They ‘inadvertently’ missed out the part where she pointed out that jurisdictions in which any bank operated would be responsible for any losses incurred.
It obviously does not suit their agenda to give that knowledge to the public, preferring instead to propagate the Westminster lie that an independent Scotland would have borne the debt burden on it’s own.
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2012-03-12 13:42
Re Herald comments. Firstly there are currently many anti-Darling comments posted in the Herald today on my web site.
Secondly I’ve had an email conversation with a moderator there called Calum MacDonald (calum.macdonald@heral dandtimes.co.uk)about not showing my comments. He claims that “they need to get to know you” before publishing without moderation. And they only moderate comments in batches and hardly ever at off peak periods before publishing. So frequently, comments take hours even days to appear. I claimed that Herald had an agenda where they didn’t publish comments which didn’t toe the Herald party line. He denied this. But they are hot on abusive and not to the point comments and activist infiltration.
But the good-ish news is that I complained that a particular commenter was posting long screeds against Independence from somewhere in England and that he was obviously a Labour Party Member. Since then he hasn’t posted.
Secondly I’ve had an email conversation with a moderator there called Calum MacDonald (calum.macdonald@heral dandtimes.co.uk)about not showing my comments. He claims that “they need to get to know you” before publishing without moderation. And they only moderate comments in batches and hardly ever at off peak periods before publishing. So frequently, comments take hours even days to appear. I claimed that Herald had an agenda where they didn’t publish comments which didn’t toe the Herald party line. He denied this. But they are hot on abusive and not to the point comments and activist infiltration.
But the good-ish news is that I complained that a particular commenter was posting long screeds against Independence from somewhere in England and that he was obviously a Labour Party Member. Since then he hasn’t posted.
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2012-03-12 13:42
Thought todays Herald was a disgrace post Conference. Page two slaghging off Alec Salmond, Page six – a report headed “Scottish Lib/Dem Conference from Gateshead. Page Seven – snide reports from Currie (what else does he ever produce that is`nt snide. Then a page of sensational Darling cross examination by fearless Simpson. I was travelling by bus to Oban and stupidly bought it FOR THE LAST TIME!
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2012-03-12 15:54
As it says on the tin. It feels good, you know, to stand up in the room and confess to all assembled, ‘I used to be a Herald reader but….’
And they wonder why sales continue to plummet.
And they wonder why sales continue to plummet.
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2012-03-12 13:43
“It comes as Chairman of the BBC Trust Chris Patten looks into allegations of questionable behaviour by the BBC contained in a dossier handed to him by the Scottish Government.”
Patten,I fear may now be a lost cause.
He said he would place the facts into the usual complaints procedure channel.(I paraphrase).
The situation in Scotland is NOT for the ‘usual complaints procedure channel’.
This is not about a programme or series of BBC programmes,wher e,Labour,SNP,Li bDems and Tories sometimes do have cases for real complaint,eithe r at BBC National or Scottish Regional level.
SUCH COMPLAINTS ARE NORMAL IN A DEMOCRACY. THAT’S DEMOCRACY.
What is not acceptable however,is a
bias,where BBC Scotland Politics is increasingly behaving as an agent of the State.
INSTITUIONALLY POLITICISED News outlet, broadcasting under the banner of the BBC.
Lord Patten,as a democrat,should be very concerned indeed.
Patten,I fear may now be a lost cause.
He said he would place the facts into the usual complaints procedure channel.(I paraphrase).
The situation in Scotland is NOT for the ‘usual complaints procedure channel’.
This is not about a programme or series of BBC programmes,wher e,Labour,SNP,Li bDems and Tories sometimes do have cases for real complaint,eithe r at BBC National or Scottish Regional level.
SUCH COMPLAINTS ARE NORMAL IN A DEMOCRACY. THAT’S DEMOCRACY.
What is not acceptable however,is a
bias,where BBC Scotland Politics is increasingly behaving as an agent of the State.
INSTITUIONALLY POLITICISED News outlet, broadcasting under the banner of the BBC.
Lord Patten,as a democrat,should be very concerned indeed.
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2012-03-12 14:23
Many of us have been saying it for long enough on here…demonstrate en masse outside the BBC and show them up for the lying Ministry of Propaganda that it is! Get as much foreign msm to turn up, as well as the opposition (STV etc.), get it posted on You-Tube. Even better if there are some non-aligned ‘civic Scotland ‘ types there in attendance (do they exist?)who agree that blatant lies are being disseminated to the Scottish people, so that the liars at Pathetic Quay can’t say we’re all mad nats. It’s time to mobilise and bring ‘Scotland’s Shame'(BBC Scotland) out into the open and alert the semi-conscious ‘don’t knows’ to the industrial level of lying going on!
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2012-03-12 14:36
The problem with the BBC is that, whether they admit to it or not, they are a very ‘pro-Britain’ organisation. This can be seen in reporting on a whole range of issues from international affairs like Syria and Libya to things more close to home like the independence referendum. Its reporters and journalists are unashamedly pro-Britain as well. I will never forget how Andrew Marr closed his documentary ‘History of Modern Britain’ a few years ago: “…to be born British remains a fantastic stroke of luck.”
Imagine, if you will, the outcry if that documentary was repeated during the independence debate!
Imagine, if you will, the outcry if that documentary was repeated during the independence debate!
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2012-03-12 14:38
We must keep complaining to the BBC on every occasion their is bias, particularly when the three anti independence parties are allowed to trash Scottish ambitions without a similar number in favour of Scottish independence.
Not so bothered about Herald / Scotsman newspapers whose readers in the main are intelligent to see past scare stories.
However Daily Mail’s aggressive anti SNP / independence stance is more disturbing as it sells more in Scotland than Herald and Scotsman combined particularly to women readers.
Not so bothered about Herald / Scotsman newspapers whose readers in the main are intelligent to see past scare stories.
However Daily Mail’s aggressive anti SNP / independence stance is more disturbing as it sells more in Scotland than Herald and Scotsman combined particularly to women readers.
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2012-03-12 14:50
From The Suburbs.I’ve complained to the BBC on many occasions re this apparent bias.
Are there any shortcuts into their complaints procedure?
‘Usual channels’ are almost a Herculean task!
Are there any shortcuts into their complaints procedure?
‘Usual channels’ are almost a Herculean task!
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2012-03-12 14:39
I’m tempted to go along with you lochside,but there are downsides to what should be a basic democratic right.
Negative response of the Press for purely party reasons.
They would have a ‘field day’.Plus.plus,plus.
In my opinion it is definitely there—-when or if to use it is open to democratic debate.
A movement of last resort?
Negative response of the Press for purely party reasons.
They would have a ‘field day’.Plus.plus,plus.
In my opinion it is definitely there—-when or if to use it is open to democratic debate.
A movement of last resort?
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2012-03-12 15:02
Hi Dundonian West. Unless the unremitting distortion and deception being perpetrated by the BBC is challenged in public and by the general public, we will keep talking to ourselves on here. Don’t forget the BBC has all but blocked or ignored all normal channels of complaint to Scots residents on their web-sites.It has been noted by some of the political sages on here that the SNP leadership has decided to take a superior unblinking approach to this torrent of untruth, and I don’t disagree that it appears to work at some levels. However, try reading the Metro, the free newspaper, and one that thousands of the politicaly non-aligned read on the subway and buses etc, and all you will read is re-cycled unionist crap taken from the BBC etc. These are the people that we want to get through to by using the democratic right to assemble and protest peacefully, but pointedly, outside Pacific quay H.Q. By raising the consciousness of the ordinary non-political punters we are helping the cause, not as a last resort, but as part of the greater strategy!
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2012-03-12 16:06
Quoting lochside:
You’ve convinced me.
Hi Dundonian West. Unless the unremitting distortion and deception being perpetrated by the BBC is challenged in public and by the general public, we will keep talking to ourselves on here. Don’t forget the BBC has all but blocked or ignored all normal channels of complaint to Scots residents on their web-sites.It has been noted by some of the political sages on here that the SNP leadership has decided to take a superior unblinking approach to this torrent of untruth, and I don’t disagree that it appears to work at some levels. However, try reading the Metro, the free newspaper, and one that thousands of the politicaly non-aligned read on the subway and buses etc, and all you will read is re-cycled unionist crap taken from the BBC etc. These are the people that we want to get through to by using the democratic right to assemble and protest peacefully, but pointedly, outside Pacific quay H.Q. By raising the consciousness of the ordinary non-political punters we are helping the cause, not as a last resort, but as part of the greater strategy!
You’ve convinced me.
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2012-03-12 15:08
Just as a reference, STV are located next door to the BBC on pacific Quay, Glasgow.
They wouldn’t have to travel far to cover a demo.
They wouldn’t have to travel far to cover a demo.
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2012-03-12 16:17
Quoting heraldnomore:
Thanks.I remember him as a Scottish Minister.
Bur Lord fraser seems to be getting the message……
huffingtonpost.co.uk/…/…
Thanks.I remember him as a Scottish Minister.
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2012-03-12 15:50
Slightly O/T but today’s Daily Mail describes ‘cybernats’ as ‘widely detested’ and purveyors of ‘vituperative propaganda’..
Is this the best compliment we have ever had?
Is this the best compliment we have ever had?
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2012-03-12 16:11
My approach to a protest at Pathetic Quay and in other arena’s would be to question the quality of coverage that the news department in BBC Scotland produce as opposed to any outright bias argument.
That way it would help to neutralise the ‘cybernat’ slant and possibly may make the protest more inviting to a broader spectrum of the public.
The BBC, as the national/state broadcaster have a public duty to offer a platform for all sides of the independence debate to be heard and questioned. So far this has led to one pretty awful programme hosted by G. Campbell which based itself on the 15 second sound bite or allowing various members of the panel to harp on for a minute with the usual rhetoric. This format is tired and will not work for such an important debate.
It is also an opportunity to question other such shows, like Question Time, which often makes remarks about Scotland without any representatives of the Scottish Govt. in the panel.
The BBC prides itself on ‘hearing many voices ‘ and offering a ‘breadth of coverage’ – phrases I have often seen or heard when BBC producers talk about their work. With that in mind, we could also protest about the cuts being made. No longer can we comment on the Taylor/Fraser blogs and now the Newsweek programme is to be axed and replaced with what we get during the week, Good Morning Scotland.
This is without doubt a narrowing of the broadcast spectrum and the voices and opinions we hear.
This is further exacerbated by the use of the same ‘faces’. Opinion and ‘expert’ knowledge is always received from the same few faces – namely Prof. Curtice, Devine, Riddoch and on radio Gardham and some other newspaper reporters. However, there is a plethora of voices out there to be listened to and with important points to make. Why not hear from Pat Kane or Gerry Hassan for a change ?
Add to that the pretty awful tabloid news bulletin that is Reporting Scotland and we have good grounds to protest about the nature of news coverage within Scotland and to have true concerns over the coverage of a national debate.
That national debate should be all encompassing. There’s 300 years of history since the Treaty of Union to be covered. Why haven’t we had a programme about that treaty and it’s implications and relevance to today ?
Why haven’t we had a history programme looking at NATO, looking at the EU, looking at the banking crisis and it’s effects on the smaller nations like Iceland, Ireland and Norway ? Surely factual led programmes of this nature would only add to the debate and help inform the public and help them to come to a conclusion on Scottish independence.
Anyway, there’s a few thoughts from me.
That way it would help to neutralise the ‘cybernat’ slant and possibly may make the protest more inviting to a broader spectrum of the public.
The BBC, as the national/state broadcaster have a public duty to offer a platform for all sides of the independence debate to be heard and questioned. So far this has led to one pretty awful programme hosted by G. Campbell which based itself on the 15 second sound bite or allowing various members of the panel to harp on for a minute with the usual rhetoric. This format is tired and will not work for such an important debate.
It is also an opportunity to question other such shows, like Question Time, which often makes remarks about Scotland without any representatives of the Scottish Govt. in the panel.
The BBC prides itself on ‘hearing many voices ‘ and offering a ‘breadth of coverage’ – phrases I have often seen or heard when BBC producers talk about their work. With that in mind, we could also protest about the cuts being made. No longer can we comment on the Taylor/Fraser blogs and now the Newsweek programme is to be axed and replaced with what we get during the week, Good Morning Scotland.
This is without doubt a narrowing of the broadcast spectrum and the voices and opinions we hear.
This is further exacerbated by the use of the same ‘faces’. Opinion and ‘expert’ knowledge is always received from the same few faces – namely Prof. Curtice, Devine, Riddoch and on radio Gardham and some other newspaper reporters. However, there is a plethora of voices out there to be listened to and with important points to make. Why not hear from Pat Kane or Gerry Hassan for a change ?
Add to that the pretty awful tabloid news bulletin that is Reporting Scotland and we have good grounds to protest about the nature of news coverage within Scotland and to have true concerns over the coverage of a national debate.
That national debate should be all encompassing. There’s 300 years of history since the Treaty of Union to be covered. Why haven’t we had a programme about that treaty and it’s implications and relevance to today ?
Why haven’t we had a history programme looking at NATO, looking at the EU, looking at the banking crisis and it’s effects on the smaller nations like Iceland, Ireland and Norway ? Surely factual led programmes of this nature would only add to the debate and help inform the public and help them to come to a conclusion on Scottish independence.
Anyway, there’s a few thoughts from me.
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2012-03-12 16:38
Don’t get me started about Reporting Scotland,with it’s “Come away in,it’s nice to see you,”relaxed regional news format.
Big smiles,see you again tomorrow approach, hiding the truth about Scottish politics.
When they go serious—in comes one of the experts just to ‘clarify’.
‘Motherhood and apple pie’ political/news from BBC Reporting Scotland is a disgrace.
Unfit for purpose,and I think they know that.
Even the children can watch it!!
Big smiles,see you again tomorrow approach, hiding the truth about Scottish politics.
When they go serious—in comes one of the experts just to ‘clarify’.
‘Motherhood and apple pie’ political/news from BBC Reporting Scotland is a disgrace.
Unfit for purpose,and I think they know that.
Even the children can watch it!!
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2012-03-12 17:40
You make a very valid point… We do not want to alienate the general public, many of them whom adore the BBC.
How are you at public speaking? Our facebook campaign is picking up momentum now. We are yet to decide on should can articulate these points well if interviewed by the media.
It must be said in a softly way as to not put the BBC on the defensive and to invite a wider audience, but it is also necessary to point out the bias.
It could be worded along the lines of. At least 75% of the public want a referendum for the people of Scotland to decide their future, but so far they have not been given a fair amount of time and balance from the BBC. All voices must be heard and many are getting frustrated that the BBC seem to have a pro-union approach without much voice from the other side of the argument. The people have decided to have a democratic referendum, we now need some democratic and just balance from our main broadcaster.
The people of Scotland do not want the BBC’s view of what a future Scotland should look like. We must decide ourselves.
Mention the internet blog censorship and a couple of examples to show we’re serious. But overall keep it in a calm collected message. This is something I probably would find hard, I’d just get angry. haha
what do you say or would anybody else think they’re fit for the job? Mark and I and possibly a couple others will be having a protest meeting soon. Somebody who’s a confident speaker would be welcome to join us.
How are you at public speaking? Our facebook campaign is picking up momentum now. We are yet to decide on should can articulate these points well if interviewed by the media.
It must be said in a softly way as to not put the BBC on the defensive and to invite a wider audience, but it is also necessary to point out the bias.
It could be worded along the lines of. At least 75% of the public want a referendum for the people of Scotland to decide their future, but so far they have not been given a fair amount of time and balance from the BBC. All voices must be heard and many are getting frustrated that the BBC seem to have a pro-union approach without much voice from the other side of the argument. The people have decided to have a democratic referendum, we now need some democratic and just balance from our main broadcaster.
The people of Scotland do not want the BBC’s view of what a future Scotland should look like. We must decide ourselves.
Mention the internet blog censorship and a couple of examples to show we’re serious. But overall keep it in a calm collected message. This is something I probably would find hard, I’d just get angry. haha
what do you say or would anybody else think they’re fit for the job? Mark and I and possibly a couple others will be having a protest meeting soon. Somebody who’s a confident speaker would be welcome to join us.
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2012-03-13 14:04
D_A_N Unfortunately,I ‘m not too good at public speaking.
My strong point is addressing speciaists in my own field on scientific papers,in semi-darkness!!
My strong point is addressing speciaists in my own field on scientific papers,in semi-darkness!!
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2012-03-12 20:37
Actually there are some of those sorts of programmes – investigative good documentary stuff – but they’re on BBC Alba. Eorpa is exceedingly good. They could sell these programmes to any quality minded TV station across the world, with subtitles.
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2012-03-12 16:20
The unionist establishment strategy is clear:-
(1) frighten the undecided voters into voting for the status quo by bombarding them daily with scare stories;
(2) deny the SNP the oxygen of publicity by controlling the political output of the BBC and MSM so that voters cannot get the truth;
(3) vilify the leadership of the SNP and turn them into bogey men that voters fear.
(4) tell lies about the SNP and independence as much as possible without being caught put.
The referendum vote campaign was never going to be easy.
The unionists are fighting for the very survival of Westminster and their beloved British Empire.
Added to that is their fear of the loss of nearly half of the UK land mass, North Sea oil revenues, and nuclear submarine bases on the Clyde.
The SNP and other supporters of independence must seriously and urgently step up their game and reach out to a far wider audience in order to counter the unionist strategy, otherwise all they will succeed in doing is to maintain their existing support, and fail to convert the undecided voters into voting YES.
(1) frighten the undecided voters into voting for the status quo by bombarding them daily with scare stories;
(2) deny the SNP the oxygen of publicity by controlling the political output of the BBC and MSM so that voters cannot get the truth;
(3) vilify the leadership of the SNP and turn them into bogey men that voters fear.
(4) tell lies about the SNP and independence as much as possible without being caught put.
The referendum vote campaign was never going to be easy.
The unionists are fighting for the very survival of Westminster and their beloved British Empire.
Added to that is their fear of the loss of nearly half of the UK land mass, North Sea oil revenues, and nuclear submarine bases on the Clyde.
The SNP and other supporters of independence must seriously and urgently step up their game and reach out to a far wider audience in order to counter the unionist strategy, otherwise all they will succeed in doing is to maintain their existing support, and fail to convert the undecided voters into voting YES.
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2012-03-12 16:49
The Westminster Government didn’t have some mysterious pot of reserve cash to bail out the banks. They borrowed it. If you look at UK debt figures there is an “official” debt figure and the real debt figure. The real debt figure contains the cost of borrowing to bail out the banks and pension costs. It is upwards of 5 trillion pounds now. Also the only reason they were able to borrow so much to bail out the banks is they can borrow against an asset – north sea oil.
So here are the facts:-
Westminster bailed out the banks by borrowing against north sea oil.
An independent England couldn’t have afforded to borrow this an independent Scotland could as the oil is ours.
It’s a lie Westminster were able to bail out the banks its borrowed money which has to be paid back.
So here are the facts:-
Westminster bailed out the banks by borrowing against north sea oil.
An independent England couldn’t have afforded to borrow this an independent Scotland could as the oil is ours.
It’s a lie Westminster were able to bail out the banks its borrowed money which has to be paid back.
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2012-03-12 17:22
Once spoke to a Snp MP about media bias particularly on the beeb and his reply was that “we prefer to fight the fights we have a chance of winning”.
This MP, who shall remain nameless was no shrinking violet, he was not what you would call ‘a coward’
This MP, who shall remain nameless was no shrinking violet, he was not what you would call ‘a coward’
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2012-03-12 17:30
Thursday’s BBC Question Time is from St Andrews.
uration: 1 hour
David Dimbleby chairs a debate on the big stories of the week from St Andrews, with a panel including former Liberal Democrats leader Charles Kennedy, and the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, Ruth Davidson.
Will the 5th member of the panel be pro independence so that there is a semblance of balance on the biggest issue ..the Referendum (always assuming we are allowed to ask “parochial Scottish questions”)
uration: 1 hour
David Dimbleby chairs a debate on the big stories of the week from St Andrews, with a panel including former Liberal Democrats leader Charles Kennedy, and the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, Ruth Davidson.
Will the 5th member of the panel be pro independence so that there is a semblance of balance on the biggest issue ..the Referendum (always assuming we are allowed to ask “parochial Scottish questions”)
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2012-03-12 17:50
surely, to be balanced, the BBC would have to invite two pro-independence panellists?
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2012-03-12 17:34
Lochside………. “However, try reading the Metro, the free newspaper, and one that thousands of the politicaly non-aligned read on the subway and buses etc, and all you will read is re-cycled unionist crap taken from the BBC etc.
The Metro is owned by the hostile Daily Mail and will be used against independence but not counted in the NO expenses.
The Metro is owned by the hostile Daily Mail and will be used against independence but not counted in the NO expenses.
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2012-03-12 18:55
Straight from Wee Ecks mouth:
“ The usual impartiality of the British Brainwashing Corporation at its very best “… its right at the start.
www.youtube.com/…/
“ The usual impartiality of the British Brainwashing Corporation at its very best “… its right at the start.
www.youtube.com/…/
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2012-03-12 19:50
The Role of Journalism in a Democracy lists nine guidelines for the profession:
1. Journalism’s first obligation is to the truth.
2. Its first loyalty is to the citizens.
3. Its essence is discipline of verification.
4. Its practitioners must maintain an independence from those they cover.
5. It must serve as an independent monitor of power.
6. It must provide a forum for public criticism and compromise.
7. It must strive to make the significant interesting, and relevant.
8. It must keep the news comprehensive and proportional.
9. Its practitioners must be allowed to exercise their personal conscience.
The whole set of principles has been forgotten utterly by the mainstream news media in Scotland.
This is dangerous for a democracy.
1. Journalism’s first obligation is to the truth.
2. Its first loyalty is to the citizens.
3. Its essence is discipline of verification.
4. Its practitioners must maintain an independence from those they cover.
5. It must serve as an independent monitor of power.
6. It must provide a forum for public criticism and compromise.
7. It must strive to make the significant interesting, and relevant.
8. It must keep the news comprehensive and proportional.
9. Its practitioners must be allowed to exercise their personal conscience.
The whole set of principles has been forgotten utterly by the mainstream news media in Scotland.
This is dangerous for a democracy.
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2012-03-12 20:01
I hav’nt read through all the replys but can i say to those who wish to protest that if we try and go toe to toe as it where, then we WILL loose.We have no station to broadcast our points of view,no MSM to print our words,even if we did it would be subverted to portray us as extremists or something similar, no friends let us use what they see as there strength against them, they believe they are a serious broadcaster, let us redicule this serious broadcaster. We have all at some point joked about what there next headline will be,”shock horror,SNP to blame for everything”. well lets help it along for them, make them the joke, make there stories so over the top that they are laughed off as the nonsense that they are,if only a few of us where to print A4 size posters with rediculas headlines then it would’nt take long to discredit them and for the general public to see them for what they are, at this size it would’nt be difficult to print a new poster evry week, prizes to whoever gets the best laugh,if we try it there way we won’t win, it’s as simple as that, we need to destroy them with banter, the banter of a whole nation laughing at them.
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2012-03-12 21:02
The only way to have any effect on any of the media is to stop watching or listening or buying and persuade friends and family to do the same. Channel as many people as you can to this site or Scottish Times. This is all very interesting but we are simply sounding off to each other. It’s the people who don’t visit here we need to let know what’s going on. Someone suggests printing posters. Now there’s an idea. At Bus Shelters, Train Stations, Car Parks. All this energy being expended on here needs to be channeled in to an ‘Arab Spring’.(Comment edited by NNS Mod Team). To begin with non-organised individuals doing something no matter how small. It all adds up.
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2012-03-12 21:19
As many people as possible need to join the SNP and then get out there and chap some doors.
I’ve learned such a lot from reading NNS over the years because there are such a lot of knowledgeable folk on here. If they all got out there and spread the word it would make a difference.
I’ve learned such a lot from reading NNS over the years because there are such a lot of knowledgeable folk on here. If they all got out there and spread the word it would make a difference.
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2012-03-12 20:29
tartanfever 2012-03-12 15:11
Have to empathise with a lot of what tartan saying. Let’s think about this.The SNP leadership are no fools, they have taken us to within spitting distance of independence. So why their ‘apparent’ reluctance to take on the EBC? Let’s hypothesise.
The lack of a “bite” by the SNP appears to be making the EBC/MSM either more invective, or more aggressive. So their ‘stories’ become ever more absurd and we are approaching the point of “the boy who cried wolf!”
We still have over 2 years to put the argument. If well before then the EBC is being disregarded by the public who are likely to become even more incredulous about the scare stories, then we will have a ‘captive’ audience receptive to the truth.
BUT… If the EBC are able to show that the SNP / CyberNats are angry/agressive/rude/vindictive/liers etc. this will ADD to their position.
So we must act carefully and smartly to any protest. As tartan says, let the target be ‘quality’ of the debates. It should be fair to point out the unbalance in discussion programmes, or the under reporting of SNP success stories etc.
We need a short simple list of ‘sound bites’ because that is what will be reported by other news outlets.
This is not an easy thing, and the frustration we all feel is tangible, but “softly, softly, catchy monkey”.
Let’s not get angry, let’s get even.
Soar Alba
Have to empathise with a lot of what tartan saying. Let’s think about this.The SNP leadership are no fools, they have taken us to within spitting distance of independence. So why their ‘apparent’ reluctance to take on the EBC? Let’s hypothesise.
The lack of a “bite” by the SNP appears to be making the EBC/MSM either more invective, or more aggressive. So their ‘stories’ become ever more absurd and we are approaching the point of “the boy who cried wolf!”
We still have over 2 years to put the argument. If well before then the EBC is being disregarded by the public who are likely to become even more incredulous about the scare stories, then we will have a ‘captive’ audience receptive to the truth.
BUT… If the EBC are able to show that the SNP / CyberNats are angry/agressive/rude/vindictive/liers etc. this will ADD to their position.
So we must act carefully and smartly to any protest. As tartan says, let the target be ‘quality’ of the debates. It should be fair to point out the unbalance in discussion programmes, or the under reporting of SNP success stories etc.
We need a short simple list of ‘sound bites’ because that is what will be reported by other news outlets.
This is not an easy thing, and the frustration we all feel is tangible, but “softly, softly, catchy monkey”.
Let’s not get angry, let’s get even.
Soar Alba
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2012-03-12 20:50
O/T
Channel 4 news tonight had a report on Carbon Capture. Apparently the Coalitionj Government is going to announce yet another competition. Mentioned Peterhead but not Longannet or that the Coaltion had pulled the plug on that.
Channel 4 news tonight had a report on Carbon Capture. Apparently the Coalitionj Government is going to announce yet another competition. Mentioned Peterhead but not Longannet or that the Coaltion had pulled the plug on that.
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2012-03-12 21:20
I bet the BBC are enjoying running with this story of the … Offensive term removed – NNS Mod Team
bbc.co.uk/…/…
bbc.co.uk/…/…
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2012-03-12 21:53
If you wish to appeal a moderation decision please use the ‘contact us’ facility – NNS Mod Team
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2012-03-12 21:44
channel 4 just said quote “north sea oil has lined the treasury for decades” during the carbon capture segment!
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2012-03-12 21:58
Apologies if this has been mentioned, but has the BBC changed the headline of this story?
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2012-03-12 22:19
SV – I’ve found this filed on 8 March – is it the same story?
Sturgeon says an independent Scotland would have worked with UK on RBS bailout
bbc.co.uk/…/…
Sturgeon says an independent Scotland would have worked with UK on RBS bailout
bbc.co.uk/…/…
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2012-03-12 22:28
Thanks. The link you have given now reads the 10th of March.
I used the link given above by NS and I am sure the heading or story has been altered from earlier.
I used the link given above by NS and I am sure the heading or story has been altered from earlier.
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2012-03-12 22:33
Yup. Looks like they’ve changed it.. If you read it it’s the same text as the screenshot above.
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2012-03-12 22:49
The damage will have been done sturgeon says an independent scotland would have relied on uk for rbs bailout: www.google.co.uk/…/
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2012-03-12 22:56
The original headline was tweeted (and then retweeted and retweeted and retweeted…). What’s the chance of the correction being tweeted?
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2012-03-12 22:51
It’s amazing how the change of a few words can dramatically change the perception of a story.
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2012-03-12 23:42
It’s now
Sturgeon says an independent Scotland would have worked with UK on RBS bailout
Sturgeon says an independent Scotland would have worked with UK on RBS bailout
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2012-03-12 22:46
The trouble with this is that the BBC is doing this every day and more than once day.By the time we complain about bias or indeed downright lies they have started another set of lies!
It is equally disturbing that there are those of you here who believe that STV is fairer and more balanced. In the North East News coverage it isnt, it is as poisonous if not more so than Disreporting Scotland.
I dont have access to SKY and where I do have access then I never watch it so I cant make any comparisons about them.
It is equally disturbing that there are those of you here who believe that STV is fairer and more balanced. In the North East News coverage it isnt, it is as poisonous if not more so than Disreporting Scotland.
I dont have access to SKY and where I do have access then I never watch it so I cant make any comparisons about them.
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2012-03-12 23:12
A_Scottish_Voic e
“ Apologies if this has been mentioned, but has the BBC changed the headline of this story? “
Aye it has:
www.newssniffer.co.uk/…/1
“ Apologies if this has been mentioned, but has the BBC changed the headline of this story? “
Aye it has:
www.newssniffer.co.uk/…/1
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2012-03-12 23:17
1) Sturgeon says an independent Scotland would have worked with UK on RBS bailout.
2) Sturgeon says an independent Scotland would have relied on UK government cash to save Royal Bank of Scotland from collapse.
2) Sturgeon says an independent Scotland would have relied on UK government cash to save Royal Bank of Scotland from collapse.
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2012-03-12 23:18
In this instance could Newsnet show the contrasting BBC headline- and detail when it was changed.
Put it in an article for all to see?? – Then people could post the BBC ‘manipulation’ on facebook etc?
Put it in an article for all to see?? – Then people could post the BBC ‘manipulation’ on facebook etc?
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2012-03-12 23:37
In the meantime, missreporting Scotland has the cheek of giving prime time space to Trump’s “Mad Alex”
bbc.co.uk/…/…
Would they’d allowed “Mad Dave”?
Also, I checked the Herald’s comments and the score is rugbylike:
Alex Salmond 42 in favour,
Alistair Darling 3
bbc.co.uk/…/…
Would they’d allowed “Mad Dave”?
Also, I checked the Herald’s comments and the score is rugbylike:
Alex Salmond 42 in favour,
Alistair Darling 3
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2012-03-13 00:01
and don’t forget, Darling’s wife is a former Herald journalist, with contacts at that paper
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2012-03-13 00:01
Vincent McDee
“ In the meantime, missreporting Scotland has the cheek of giving prime time space to Trump’s “Mad Alex” “
As far as I can remember the BBC never published anything like the following, in 2006:
How Jack of clubs came up trumps for Donald
scotsman.com/…/…
“ In the meantime, missreporting Scotland has the cheek of giving prime time space to Trump’s “Mad Alex” “
As far as I can remember the BBC never published anything like the following, in 2006:
How Jack of clubs came up trumps for Donald
scotsman.com/…/…
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2012-03-13 00:07
Nice to see wee Willie Rennie standing up against Trump. Not completely useless then.
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2012-03-12 23:58
McWhirter has just named and shamed Labour bad boys on STV.
He’ll get his jotters, that lad.
He’ll get his jotters, that lad.
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2012-03-13 09:53
Ah and he missed that other nice chap Devine from the ever growing list of Labour rogues.
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2012-03-13 00:13
Just watching newsnight scotland …they have lost the plot completely ..trump story with no balance then the RBS story with no balance . This just cannot possibly go on for the next two and a half years without the complete disintegration of the BBC in Scotland …they really are on another planet.
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2012-03-13 00:37
Spread the word.Careless.Sloppy.Lazy.Biased.Cant be trusted.The BBC aint what it used to be.
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2012-03-13 00:48
O/T
For those who may have an interest. The US based channel, PBS (UK), has announced a forthcoming programme (at 9 PM on 28 March 2012), in its Frontline series, about Rupert Murdoch being investigated by the authorities in the US and the UK.
For those who may have an interest. The US based channel, PBS (UK), has announced a forthcoming programme (at 9 PM on 28 March 2012), in its Frontline series, about Rupert Murdoch being investigated by the authorities in the US and the UK.
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2012-03-13 00:54
So Mr Joyce is not good enough to represent Labour….but is still good enough to represent the people of his constituency…All I can say is ‘I am glad this man is not my MP’..what a disgrace!!
This is what passes for ‘honour’ among our MP’s these days…
scotsman.com/…/…
-MP, Mr Joyce said: “Members will be aware of events in the Strangers’ Bar on February 22 during which the standard of my conduct fell egregiously below what is required by a member of this House, or indeed anyone, anywhere.
“I am grateful for this opportunity to apologise without reservation to the House.”
He added: “Clearly I have a number of personal issues to address, and you can be assured that this will take place.
“I would also like to inform the House that I have today tendered my resignation as a member of the Labour Party to the party leader.”
PS
just out of curiosity ( I’m sure it has no bearing on the case) how much does an MP get paid these days
This is what passes for ‘honour’ among our MP’s these days…
scotsman.com/…/…
-MP, Mr Joyce said: “Members will be aware of events in the Strangers’ Bar on February 22 during which the standard of my conduct fell egregiously below what is required by a member of this House, or indeed anyone, anywhere.
“I am grateful for this opportunity to apologise without reservation to the House.”
He added: “Clearly I have a number of personal issues to address, and you can be assured that this will take place.
“I would also like to inform the House that I have today tendered my resignation as a member of the Labour Party to the party leader.”
PS
just out of curiosity ( I’m sure it has no bearing on the case) how much does an MP get paid these days
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2012-03-13 00:58
The BBC, like the Labour Party are losing control in Scotland and they do not like it one little bit.
Prepare yourselves folks, because it is about to get a whole lot worse.
But they can shove their propaganda where the sun don’t shine,
We are an educated Nation, and can see through the talking Heid and all his Tory Cronies, The next two years are going to be interesting.
O/T It was nice to meet you Welsh Sion.
By the way complaining to the BBC is a complete waste of time, as they are so insulated in their little bubble they still think they are are world power,
Think again BBC
Prepare yourselves folks, because it is about to get a whole lot worse.
But they can shove their propaganda where the sun don’t shine,
We are an educated Nation, and can see through the talking Heid and all his Tory Cronies, The next two years are going to be interesting.
O/T It was nice to meet you Welsh Sion.
By the way complaining to the BBC is a complete waste of time, as they are so insulated in their little bubble they still think they are are world power,
Think again BBC
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2012-03-13 01:16
Quoting Purr:
The BBC are the Labour Party in Scotland.
The BBC, like the Labour Party are losing control in Scotland
The BBC are the Labour Party in Scotland.
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2012-03-13 01:32
I think that is a little unfair. The BBC is a British institution, which wants to continue in that role. Consequently, it will slant its coverage in favour of the Union. If the Tories or LDs were the dominant Unionist party in Scotland, then the BBC would likely slant their coverage towards their point of view.
Individual journalists on the BBC will have their own views, but given the focus of their bosses, the precarious nature of their employment, and the need to feed their families and pay the mortgage. I wouldn’t expect them to be breaking ranks!
Individual journalists on the BBC will have their own views, but given the focus of their bosses, the precarious nature of their employment, and the need to feed their families and pay the mortgage. I wouldn’t expect them to be breaking ranks!
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2012-03-13 01:37
MacWhirter hinted at occupational stress in an appearance before, I think, the Communications Committee. OK, I know it’s OT and I don’t mean to imply sympathy.
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2012-03-13 01:25
“ RBS have money from the US Federal Reserve, from the European Central Bank from the Australian Central Bank. “
If I remember correctly RBS and BoS got £64bn between them, chicken feed compared to what the USA ploughed in to them.
What the BBC has never told the people on these islands, due to the absence of investigative journalism or otherwise, are the amounts paid to British banks by other countries during the bailout.
I do not know what the EU or Australia paid them, but I do with regards the USA bailout;
The Federal Reserve has released details of more than 21,000 transactions after being forced by the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act to disclose which institutions it had bailed out in the financial turmoil since December 2007.
Royal Bank of Scotland $446bn (£280bn),
Bank of Scotland $181bn (£114bn)
Total = £461bn.
So who bailed out the two banks? It obviously wasn’t the UK.
If I remember correctly RBS and BoS got £64bn between them, chicken feed compared to what the USA ploughed in to them.
What the BBC has never told the people on these islands, due to the absence of investigative journalism or otherwise, are the amounts paid to British banks by other countries during the bailout.
I do not know what the EU or Australia paid them, but I do with regards the USA bailout;
The Federal Reserve has released details of more than 21,000 transactions after being forced by the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act to disclose which institutions it had bailed out in the financial turmoil since December 2007.
Royal Bank of Scotland $446bn (£280bn),
Bank of Scotland $181bn (£114bn)
Total = £461bn.
So who bailed out the two banks? It obviously wasn’t the UK.
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2012-03-13 01:47
Being saved for later. No point showing all your cards yet. Unionists are not good at playing poker.
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2012-03-13 01:41
That’s useful data. Can you provide a link to the source, so that it can be used more widely?
Thanks.
Thanks.
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2012-03-13 01:53
oldnat
“ That’s useful data. Can you provide a link to the source, so that it can be used more widely? “
The link is:
newstatesman.com/…/…
“ That’s useful data. Can you provide a link to the source, so that it can be used more widely? “
The link is:
newstatesman.com/…/…
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2012-03-13 08:21
The Source also shows that Barclays borrowed more in total. 863 Billion $.
However the figures are what banks borrowed in total over the period of the crisis.
Barclays has since repaid this US dept.
RBS has also since repaid this USdebt.
See: cfoworld.co.uk/…/…
In the 2009 UK Budget report Northern Rock had the most public sector net debt but all you ever hear about is so called Scottish Banks.
However the figures are what banks borrowed in total over the period of the crisis.
Barclays has since repaid this US dept.
RBS has also since repaid this USdebt.
See: cfoworld.co.uk/…/…
In the 2009 UK Budget report Northern Rock had the most public sector net debt but all you ever hear about is so called Scottish Banks.
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2012-03-13 01:38
Talking about banks, what was that I read yesterday about Forsythe (Lord) being in some kind of consortium eyeing the Clydesdale?
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2012-03-13 02:13
Its time we had another in depth programme like BBC Alba’s ‘Diomhair’ (Secret), but this time in English, so that a wider section of the public can view it. It was made by an excellent independent production company Caledonia TV. Who knows, it just might come off. Watch this space!
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2012-03-13 02:26
I noticed the other week on reporting Scotland in the morning they said Kenny Mcaskill was going to make an EMERGENCY STATEMENT to the Scottish Parliament regarding the accusations that he personally advised megrahi to drop his appeal. In the next bulliton the word EMERGENCY was absent. Most people have left for work by the time it was removed so most people hearing it in the morning would be left with the impression that this was a very serious issue as to warrent an EMERGENCY bloody statement. They do this kind of thing all the time and we all notice it but a lot don`t.
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2012-03-13 04:24
Iknow this might seem trivial but one thing we cn do it start using the BBs’c full name when under disucssion. It is the BRITISH BROADCASTING CORPORATION. Lest we forget!
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2012-03-13 08:52
There are some posters here asking for an element of caution when it comes to dealing with BBC Scotland, to the point of letting them away with murder. The reasons given are that the BBC will use complaints to activate even more bile against the SNP. I think it is too late anyway for caution as the water has already flowed under the bridge. The BBC do not need any more excuses to do what they are doing. It should be remembered that the SNP itself has made complaints to the BBC Trust about the prejudiced reporting on the channel.
There should be no let up in pointing out the activities of the BBC. If everyone sits back and lets it happen there will be much remorse and hand wringing come 2014 that more wasn’t done. When that happens it will be too late.
There should be no let up in pointing out the activities of the BBC. If everyone sits back and lets it happen there will be much remorse and hand wringing come 2014 that more wasn’t done. When that happens it will be too late.
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2012-03-13 12:16
That is not what people are asking for… What we need is patience, and cool heads. Feel free to point up all the bias that you can about the BBC, it is important that it is documented, and highlighted. In that way we can inform the public. Remember more people now get their news online than get it is the dead tree press.
What is not needed now is anything that may allow us to be branded as extremists.
John
What is not needed now is anything that may allow us to be branded as extremists.
John
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2012-03-13 10:32
Hear Hear #j wil,you took the words right out of my mouth.let me remind all the doubters of the old sayng,for evil to succeed all it takes is for good men to sit back and do nothing.
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2012-03-13 11:49
O/T but more media madness. WoS highlights an amazing piece in the Herald.
wingsland.podgamer.com/…/
wingsland.podgamer.com/…/
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2012-03-13 12:14
If Fraser is saying that only nuclear weapons prevent a state from being invaded by another then he should be advising the Scandinavians,G ermans etc on their defence requirements.
Scotland will have what is required in order to protect our state but minus WMD.
When the Russian fleet anchored in the Moray Firth recently,I believe the nearest UK naval vessel was in one of the English south coast ports so completely useless.
On independence we will go from having virtually no defensive capability to where we need to be.The money to pay for this will be part of the negotiated settlement with Westminster.
Scotland will have what is required in order to protect our state but minus WMD.
When the Russian fleet anchored in the Moray Firth recently,I believe the nearest UK naval vessel was in one of the English south coast ports so completely useless.
On independence we will go from having virtually no defensive capability to where we need to be.The money to pay for this will be part of the negotiated settlement with Westminster.
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2012-03-13 12:21
Also,what would happen if say the French decided to invade England (again).
Would Scotland then decide,oh well we’d better bomb all the airfields in England…just in case.
I think not.
A pot of crock from Fraser.
Would Scotland then decide,oh well we’d better bomb all the airfields in England…just in case.
I think not.
A pot of crock from Fraser.
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2012-03-13 12:24
Quoting bringiton:
That is precisely the point. rUK will have nuclear weapons, so can destroy their own airports if they’re threatened with invasion. Scotland will not and so we will have to rely on rUK nuking our airports for us. Alex Mugabe’s plan to destroy the airports using wind power is madness…and I know madness when I see it. Granted, I usually see it in the mirror, but that’s neither here nor there. Only the UK can save us from the threats dreamed up by the UK.
If Fraser is saying that only nuclear weapons prevent a state from being invaded by another
That is precisely the point. rUK will have nuclear weapons, so can destroy their own airports if they’re threatened with invasion. Scotland will not and so we will have to rely on rUK nuking our airports for us. Alex Mugabe’s plan to destroy the airports using wind power is madness…and I know madness when I see it. Granted, I usually see it in the mirror, but that’s neither here nor there. Only the UK can save us from the threats dreamed up by the UK.
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2012-03-13 12:34
You can see where the unionists are coming from though.It is all about protecting the motherland (England) from attack and if this means sacrificing Scotland then so be it.
The current Westminster military defence strategy has been to denude Scotland of resources (which we have helped pay for)and make no mistake,would have shipped Trident south of the border if they could (although this would have been welcomed by most Scots).
Come independence day,our share of defence will have to be deducted from our share of the UK debt.
The current Westminster military defence strategy has been to denude Scotland of resources (which we have helped pay for)and make no mistake,would have shipped Trident south of the border if they could (although this would have been welcomed by most Scots).
Come independence day,our share of defence will have to be deducted from our share of the UK debt.
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2012-03-13 17:49
Thanks for the link, Embradon.
wingsland.podgamer.com/…/
I especially liked one of the comments, from Peter A Bell:
Quote:
wingsland.podgamer.com/…/
I especially liked one of the comments, from Peter A Bell:
Quote:
With Lord Fraser of Carmyllie joining Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, Lord Caithness and, of course, Baron Foulkes of Cumnock, my entrepreneurial instincts are alert to the possibility of a small but potentially lucrative market in ermine-trimmed strait-jackets.
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2012-03-13 14:09
From the Suburbs.”The Metro is owned by the hostile Daily Mail”.
THAT info is VERY important,which we must not forget.
Perhaps I’ll re-post that info elsewhere.
Useful too,when speaking to the ‘undecideds’.
In fact it’s vital.Many thanks.
THAT info is VERY important,which we must not forget.
Perhaps I’ll re-post that info elsewhere.
Useful too,when speaking to the ‘undecideds’.
In fact it’s vital.Many thanks.
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2012-03-13 17:44
Sorry, haven’t had time to read through all the comments on this thread, or, indeed, others, so maybe this has already been picked up.
bbc.co.uk/…/…
It’s from 9.3.2012, so a bit ‘old’ but I only came across it today.
I’m a bit… I don’t know what to think. The worst way you can read it, it’s a warning, a threat of NI type of troubles if Scotland decides to go independent.
I’m sure that’s not the way the Britisch Broadcasting Corporation meant it to be read, they wouldn’t stoop that low, would they? and I’m just being paranoid.
A more positive reading is healthy speculation of what would happen, from the Irish/NI point of view. However, the piece doesn’t seem to properly acknowledge that times are now very different than they were in the early 20th century when Ireland gained her independence (minus the bit in the north).
bbc.co.uk/…/…
It’s from 9.3.2012, so a bit ‘old’ but I only came across it today.
I’m a bit… I don’t know what to think. The worst way you can read it, it’s a warning, a threat of NI type of troubles if Scotland decides to go independent.
I’m sure that’s not the way the Britisch Broadcasting Corporation meant it to be read, they wouldn’t stoop that low, would they? and I’m just being paranoid.
A more positive reading is healthy speculation of what would happen, from the Irish/NI point of view. However, the piece doesn’t seem to properly acknowledge that times are now very different than they were in the early 20th century when Ireland gained her independence (minus the bit in the north).
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2012-03-13 18:15
lumilumi,the Unionists of NI will have a problem when Scotland becomes independent in that effectively,the union will no longer exist.
So,where do they go from there?
I would have thought that a united Ireland would be the obvious route to take but that may be a step too far for some NI unionists.
It is doubtful that NI could exist as a separate entity so would have to hook up with someone else (who knows but Holyrood may come to seem an attractive place to be for them).
This will be an issue for the people of NI to decide and no one else.
So,where do they go from there?
I would have thought that a united Ireland would be the obvious route to take but that may be a step too far for some NI unionists.
It is doubtful that NI could exist as a separate entity so would have to hook up with someone else (who knows but Holyrood may come to seem an attractive place to be for them).
This will be an issue for the people of NI to decide and no one else.
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2012-03-13 19:19
Yes, this is for the people of NI to decide and no-one else. Conversely, Scottish independence is for the Scottish people to decide.
They shouldn’t be made to feel guilty about ‘their brothers across the sea’, or the Welsh or whomever.
It seems that the anti-independists, especially Labour (and the BBC), are spinning this as a question of solidarity. Something along the lines that NI and Wales need Scotland as a counterbalance against (Tory) Westminster, and the Scots cannot possibly be so selfish as to leave their friends, their brothers, in the lurch.
These are powerful emotive issues and all Scottish independists need to allay these fears in Scotland. Scotland would be a good neighbour as before (only last year, Scotland delivered water to NI people when their systems failed!)
I don’t pretend to understand NI politics, it’s so steeped in old history and deeply held views… Ironically, the Scoti from north Ireland went to Alba and gradually made that country Scotland. And then English colonialism brought Protestant Scots back to their original homeland. What a mess.
I’ve only been to NI once, in 1992. My Finnish family/friends warned me not to go to such a dangerous place as Belfast, and seeing the murals and the barricaded police stations and armoured/armed police/military on patrol threw me a bit, but all in all it was very peaceful (sunny and warm as well) and the locals were wonderful, friendly and welcoming. Also on the north coast (Giant’s causeway, Bushmill’s distillery etc.), and I and my travelling companion were dissapointed when we crossed the border in Derry, our passports ready, and the border guards on either side just weren’t interested (We’d expected to be searched and have our foreign passports scrutinised.)
Sorry, another long post. ;(
They shouldn’t be made to feel guilty about ‘their brothers across the sea’, or the Welsh or whomever.
It seems that the anti-independists, especially Labour (and the BBC), are spinning this as a question of solidarity. Something along the lines that NI and Wales need Scotland as a counterbalance against (Tory) Westminster, and the Scots cannot possibly be so selfish as to leave their friends, their brothers, in the lurch.
These are powerful emotive issues and all Scottish independists need to allay these fears in Scotland. Scotland would be a good neighbour as before (only last year, Scotland delivered water to NI people when their systems failed!)
I don’t pretend to understand NI politics, it’s so steeped in old history and deeply held views… Ironically, the Scoti from north Ireland went to Alba and gradually made that country Scotland. And then English colonialism brought Protestant Scots back to their original homeland. What a mess.
I’ve only been to NI once, in 1992. My Finnish family/friends warned me not to go to such a dangerous place as Belfast, and seeing the murals and the barricaded police stations and armoured/armed police/military on patrol threw me a bit, but all in all it was very peaceful (sunny and warm as well) and the locals were wonderful, friendly and welcoming. Also on the north coast (Giant’s causeway, Bushmill’s distillery etc.), and I and my travelling companion were dissapointed when we crossed the border in Derry, our passports ready, and the border guards on either side just weren’t interested (We’d expected to be searched and have our foreign passports scrutinised.)
Sorry, another long post. ;(
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2012-03-13 18:48
O/T
An Englishman’s home is his castle but in Jack McConnell’s case it would appear to be a 3ft by 3ft shed.
From the BBC:
‘Mr McConnell – now known as Baron McConnell of Glenscorrodale – and his wife, Bridget, argue that the 3ft by 3ft shed on the boundary of the garden is theirs.’
tinyurl.com/7u9gf9s
An Englishman’s home is his castle but in Jack McConnell’s case it would appear to be a 3ft by 3ft shed.
From the BBC:
‘Mr McConnell – now known as Baron McConnell of Glenscorrodale – and his wife, Bridget, argue that the 3ft by 3ft shed on the boundary of the garden is theirs.’
tinyurl.com/7u9gf9s
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2012-03-13 19:33
Oh, what wonderful people they are, fighting over a tiny shed. All for us and none for the others. The thought that spings to mind is greedy people who feel entitled, never mind if their elderly neighbour went to jail. Thank god the sheriff had some common sense.
I’m almost surprised the BBC reported this. Something negative about a (ex) Labour politician.
I’m almost surprised the BBC reported this. Something negative about a (ex) Labour politician.
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2012-03-13 20:44
In case you havnt noticed folks, the BBC have now changed the headline and the first paragraph to read that an independent Scotland would have negotiated with the UK over RBS. Clearly complaints pay off but I’ll bet nobody at Pacific Quay’s had his or her wrist slapped over it.
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2012-03-13 21:26
Thank you for contacting us.
I understand that you believe we have not been giving proper coverage to the SNP spring conference.
Although I appreciate your feelings, choosing the stories to include in our bulletins; the order in which they appear and the length of time devoted to them is a subjective matter and one which we know not every viewer and listener will feel we get right every time. Factors such as whether it is news that has just come in and needs immediate coverage, how unusual the story is and how much national interest there is in the subject matter will all play a part in deciding the level of coverage and where it falls within a bulletin.
Essentially this is a judgement call rather than an exact science but BBC News does appreciate the feedback when viewers and listeners feel we may have overlooked or neglected a story.
Again, I recognise that you feel strongly about this matter and to that end I’d like to assure you that I’ve registered your concerns on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that’s made available to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, programme makers, channel controllers and other senior managers.
The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content.
Thank you once again for taking the trouble to share your views with us.
Kind Regards
Richard Carey
BBC Complaints
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints
This was the (very prompt i have to add) reply i got from the beeb after i strongly complained about their coverage (lol) of the snp conference.
I understand that you believe we have not been giving proper coverage to the SNP spring conference.
Although I appreciate your feelings, choosing the stories to include in our bulletins; the order in which they appear and the length of time devoted to them is a subjective matter and one which we know not every viewer and listener will feel we get right every time. Factors such as whether it is news that has just come in and needs immediate coverage, how unusual the story is and how much national interest there is in the subject matter will all play a part in deciding the level of coverage and where it falls within a bulletin.
Essentially this is a judgement call rather than an exact science but BBC News does appreciate the feedback when viewers and listeners feel we may have overlooked or neglected a story.
Again, I recognise that you feel strongly about this matter and to that end I’d like to assure you that I’ve registered your concerns on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that’s made available to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, programme makers, channel controllers and other senior managers.
The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content.
Thank you once again for taking the trouble to share your views with us.
Kind Regards
Richard Carey
BBC Complaints
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints
This was the (very prompt i have to add) reply i got from the beeb after i strongly complained about their coverage (lol) of the snp conference.
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2012-03-18 13:04
I’ve just had this totally banal reply to my complaint from the BBC. No explanation, no contrition, no apology.
Thank you for your email regarding the Online report on Nicola Sturgeon’s webcast interview with Brian Taylor.
We agree that the original headline was not an accurate reflection of what the Deputy First Minister said in the interview.
The headline and relevant text of the story have been rewritten to take
out references to “relied on” and replaced with “worked with” which is
what Ms Sturgeon said in her interview.
Regards
BBC News Website
Thank you for your email regarding the Online report on Nicola Sturgeon’s webcast interview with Brian Taylor.
We agree that the original headline was not an accurate reflection of what the Deputy First Minister said in the interview.
The headline and relevant text of the story have been rewritten to take
out references to “relied on” and replaced with “worked with” which is
what Ms Sturgeon said in her interview.
Regards
BBC News Website
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2012-03-18 13:09
“We agree that the original headline was not an accurate reflection of what the Deputy First Minister said in the interview.”
Anything about it not happening again?
Thought not.
Anything about it not happening again?
Thought not.
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2012-03-19 20:00
BBC Radio 2 broadcasts a load of piffle today about Orkney and Shetland being part of England (not UK as it will not exist if Scotland votes YES)
Tavis Scott says they feel Norweigian –(but do they feel Cockney?)
Based on his juvenile attempt at spoiling the debate ably asisted by the British Broadcaster for Colonialist’s should Argyll or other areas vote YES can they declare UDI?
Tavis Scott says they feel Norweigian –(but do they feel Cockney?)
Based on his juvenile attempt at spoiling the debate ably asisted by the British Broadcaster for Colonialist’s should Argyll or other areas vote YES can they declare UDI?
#
2012-03-19 20:32
Jackie Ballie being given publicity by the BBC to repeat her discredited blanket claim.
bbc.co.uk/…/…
“Scottish Labour’s health spokeswoman Jackie Baillie accused the SNP of “picking a fight” with Westminster.
She said: “At a time when we have lost 2,000 nurses, our hospitals are crumbling and we don’t have enough blankets for elderly patients, I am amazed that the SNP government is picking a fight with the UK government about what time we can show McDonald’s adverts on television.”
The Scotsman has it also.
bbc.co.uk/…/…
“Scottish Labour’s health spokeswoman Jackie Baillie accused the SNP of “picking a fight” with Westminster.
She said: “At a time when we have lost 2,000 nurses, our hospitals are crumbling and we don’t have enough blankets for elderly patients, I am amazed that the SNP government is picking a fight with the UK government about what time we can show McDonald’s adverts on television.”
The Scotsman has it also.
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