General
Friday, 06 April 2012 01:45
By Martin Kelly
The Scottish National Party has revealed that they plan to submit a Freedom of Information request to the UK Government in order to reveal the extent Labour party online submissions played in the UK Government’s referendum consultation.
In a statement issued today [Friday] the SNP’s Westminster leader Angus Robertson said that he would be submitting Freedom of Information requests and tabling a series of Parliamentary Questions to find out how many responses were submitted via Labour’s website with amended wording and with the pre-set text.
The demands for transparency follow the revelation that over a quarter – 740 out of the 2,857 – responses to the UK Government’s referendum consultation contained the identical text from the Labour Party website, however the total number from the site has yet to emerge.
On BBC Good Morning Scotland yesterday, Scottish Secretary Michael Moore said that the 740 responses are “the same as the Labour Party text on their website”.
The admission from Mr Moore followed a statement from the Scotland Office that revealed over two hundred submissions to the UK Government consultation were either duplicates or were anonymous.
Describing the Westminster led process as “discredited”, Mr Robertson said:
“It is high time Michael Moore came clean. He is trying to dictate the terms and timing of Scotland’s referendum from Westminster, on the basis of a discredited consultation and a Labour block vote.
“We only know that over a quarter of the responses to the UK Government consultation were the identical text from the Labour Party website because it was dragged out of Michael Moore during a BBC interview – nowhere does this information appear in the Scotland Office report.
“But how many more came from Labour’s website, with slightly amended wording?”
Mr Robertson repeated calls for an independent analysis of the results from the final report claiming that without scrutiny “it isn’t worth the paper it is written on”.
Mr Robertson made clear that the form used by Labour was not the issue and indeed his party encouraged such participation. However the senior SNP MP insisted that the process had to be subject to robust independent scrutiny if integrity was to be established.
He said:
“The SNP encourage such participation in consultations by political parties and other organisations and individuals, that is not the issue. The issue is that we need to know the full detail of the Scotland Office consultation submissions, and how many in total came from Labour’s website, given that they have clearly swamped the puny number of overall responses. The consultation needs to be independently analysed, properly detailed and broken down by categories.”
Mr Robertson cited the Scottish Government’s own pledge to have their consultation independently analysed and labelled Michael Moore’s rejection of similar scrutiny “a disgrace”.
He added:
“The reality is that the anti-independence parties are in cahoots to try to dictate the terms and timing of Scotland’s referendum from Westminster – they have been partially exposed, and I am now submitting a series of FOI requests and parliamentary questions to find out the real extent of Labour’s swamping of the Tory/Lib Dem consultation.”
An under pressure Michael Moore refused to appear on Newsnight Scotland on Wednesday evening to answer questions on his Government’s consultation.
Newsnet Scotland contacted the Scotland Office on Tuesday and again on Thursday with our own questions relating to the consultation. However to date we have received no reply.
Comments
2012-04-05 19:47
2012-04-05 19:49
I predict that this will be glossed over or not reported by the BBC.
2012-04-05 19:59
‘Most back single Scots question’ is the headline the BBC continue to run with in their article on the UK consultation. I wonder what the headline will be when the Scottish consultation results are released.
2012-04-05 20:01
I think this is an important statement. He is protecting the SNP position.
2012-04-05 20:23
2012-04-05 20:39
On BBC Good Morning Scotland yesterday, Scottish Secretary Michael Moore said that the 740 responses are “the same as the Labour Party text on their website”.
Therefore, why haven’t the BBC followed up on this and actually do what they are supposed to do – provide a story.
Ah, silly me ^
2012-04-05 21:09
2012-04-06 03:19
2012-04-05 21:11
Independence will be all the sweeter when it comes in spite of the unionist smears and negativity, all aided and abetted by the state broadcaster.
2012-04-05 21:36
The Brit media will see to that.
Though this article by Lesley Riddoch seems spot on!
guardian.co.uk/…/…
2012-04-05 21:49
Imagine Brian Taylor at the BBC writing something like that, ie the truth and no spin.
2012-04-05 22:14
www.ianfraser.org/…/
2012-04-05 22:33
2012-04-05 22:37
2012-04-05 22:56
2012-04-05 23:30
2012-04-05 23:56
ons.gov.uk/…/…
2012-04-06 00:32
2012-04-06 00:53
2012-04-06 01:14
0.56h 6455
0.57h 6598
01:00h 6749
01:01 reset to 0% 0%
01:03h 6904
01:04h 6948
01:05h 7000
01:06h 7108
01:07h 7141
01:08h 7171
01:09h 7195 – these are votes in favour of bringing forward the 2014 referendum date.
I cannot believe I am witnessing this blatent rigging of a newspaper poll !!!!
2012-04-06 01:26
It’s rubbish, we know it and they know it.
2012-04-06 01:33
Early today it surprised me there have been no changes in the last few days and I wondered about how long it would take till they’d do something about it.
But I wasn’t expecting them counting how many readers they lose per minute.
2012-04-06 01:42
2000 + votes in less than an hour…
2012-04-06 01:54
link to the poll? I would like to see it for myself.
www.scotsman.com/news/politics
you will see it near the top right corner… refresh the page every minute or so and watch the votes rise… pls confirm if you do 🙂
2012-04-06 02:01
2012-04-06 08:34
I seem to remember that particular paper was ” fun oot” adding its own comments to skew debate, looks like they are doing it again.
Didnt they have a nice wee poll but wouldn’t divulge the results ?
2012-04-06 03:05
So, when you don’t like what the people say, programme a votebot to say what it is you want the people to.
Sorry if my calculations are wrong, it is very late and I have had beer. Not alot, but enough.
2012-04-06 10:10
Its bad enough their comments sections are completely infested by unionist sockpuppets (roughly 6 unemployed individuals posting under many usernames), and now this!
2012-04-06 11:29
I stopped monitoring at 02.04 hrs and that number had increased to 10,170 ‘Yes’
If a ‘national’ newspaper can manipulate the ‘news’ in such a fashion, I honestly dispair.
2012-04-06 12:41
2000 + votes in less than an hour…
…and that hour was one when most people in Scotland were in their beds!
2012-04-06 12:29
The excuses from @KennyFarq Kenny Farquharson deputy editor of Scotland on Sunday so far include:
1. Er, how about a less paranoid explanation: a big chunk of our web readership is US diaspora, in diff time zone.
2. Viewed from a real newsroom and not
the Evil Unionist Nervecentre of your imaginings, your claim is ludicrous.
2012-04-06 16:26
The guy cannot justify this as a ‘blip’ caused by US posters
2012-04-06 01:10
Sorry to be O/T
Re the Scotsman poll @ 1.05am 7000
yes,no @ 4757.
I have been watching it go up since about 12.45. No change to the no vote.
2012-04-06 02:29
I also noticed that the option to vote seems to be closed.
I voted in this poll ages ago and it was running roughly 60 / 40 in favour of 2014 until just now. Funny, that, eh?
2012-04-06 03:16
2012-04-06 03:32
Friday, 6 April 2012
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes
11608 (71%)
No
4780 (29%)
Time 03:30
But they did let me vote, awfie good of them
So they added 5000 (THOUSAND) votes over the day,
Do you think they’ve been to Glenrothes 😉
2012-04-06 11:06
Most of the votes having been completed at a very late hour of the night.
If you add up all the activists and supporters of the SNP, you have a figure of around 22,000 – 25,000 people.
If you add up all the politicly active Unionists you would be lucky to hit more than 10,000 I would think.
The Westminster consultation gets in the region of 2,800 (figure rounded up)
The Scottish consultation receives around 12,000 votes.
Does the Hootsman really believe that anyone will give this poll any credit?
Scots are a canny bunch, and can see through this. It is quite fitting that many voters already have an increased awareness to much of what is going on in the media.
Scotland is maturing as a country and this childish behaviour is being seen for what it is.
Seen in the round Scotland as a country and people are moving towards the bright light of a more content nation. As a people we want more of this enlightenment in all areas of our lives, we understand it takes months, even years to pull all together, but people realise it is happening.
2012-04-06 13:06
Independence poll
Friday, 6 April 2012
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes
11608 (71%)
No
4780 (29%)
Time 03:30
But they did let me vote, awfie good of them
So they added 5000 (THOUSAND) votes over the day,
Do you think they’ve been to Glenrothes 😉
Maybe the North British Person newsrag did indeed take their cue for this sham poll from the Glenrothes shambles, and wheeled out the entire zombie cast from the excellent US horror/drama The Walking Dead to vote!
2012-04-06 09:11
2012-04-06 08:57
2012-04-06 09:24
At a local bye election last year an SNP candidate who was leading on the first, second and third count was beaten on the fourth and final count by “2nd” preferences.
2012-04-06 12:51
You’re not obliged to vote for anyone you don’t want to vote for, and I will only be voting SNP (unless there are any independents I feel are worthy of my lower preferences). I have no idea how such a voting pattern may influence the outcome.
2012-04-06 09:30
2012-04-06 09:40
2012-04-06 09:44
2012-04-06 10:19
I can confirm 1 contribution to the uk consultation came directly from the labour website from me. Suitably amended of course.
McHaggis,
an interesting little snippet from the code in the Labour referendum consultation form on their website.
www.scottishlabour.org.uk/…/
They are not sending responses to the UK consultation anymore as it has finished but there are still two email addresses in the html code.
<input type=”hidden” name=”RecipientsAddre sses” value=”referendum@scot land.gsi.gov.uk haveyoursay@lab our.org.uk” />
From this code snippet it would appear that Labour are monitoring all responses to the consultation going through their website by sending a copy to an email address they own. It would seem they are retaining personal data in an unauthorised manner not in keeping with the Data Protection Act.
In other words they’ve now got your email address and any other personal details you put in your submission.
I’d suggest a word with the Data Commissioner as that is a clear breach of the Data Protection Act.
2012-04-06 10:02
I will fly nowhere until this crazy tax is abolished.
2012-04-06 10:24
2012-04-06 12:05
To prove this, I’ve just checked the latest cheapest biz class prices to fly to JFK in biz class with BA, out on 1st May, back on 5th May. From Amsterdam via LHR in biz, the cheapest fare is 2470 Euros. To JFK in biz class starting in Edinburgh via LHR, the price is 4000.60 pounds. Same LHR to JFK flights, just connecting from AMS instead of EDI.
Not sure if the difference is all due to APD though.
2012-04-06 10:32
THE success of an Easter Ross firm has been hailed as the way to go by the Secretary of State for Scotland.
He seemed to keep this visit very quiet and the head office is in America.
Kirker Enterprises, Inc
55 East 6th Street
Paterson, New Jersey 07524
USA
I wonder if they pay corporation tax in UK??
2012-04-06 12:38
Looks like the total of supposed responses to their crooked poll
exceeds the number of people who actually buy the paper.
I wonder, does the Beano have higher circulation figures
than the Scotsman newspaper ?
2012-04-06 13:27
Over the past few weeks we are seeing stories such as this (Unionist POV) coming out late in the week and running over the weekend, before dying away at the start of the following week.
This time next week we are going to see another story/stories running along the lines of SNP doing the wrong thing policy wise and Scots want the Status Quo.
No one in Scotland is falling for this noise however.
2014 is getting closer, Westminster still have to give the nod to the legality of the referendum (in their eyes) which doesn’t look like happening any time soon, in which case it shows that they are not in any real hurry either.
The Scottish people would rather have information rather than all this political bluster and noise that acts only as a minor distraction.
2012-04-06 13:28
The international community are aware of what is going on as far as the Council of Europe and the OSCE is concerned. If this interference continues, this time its up to the Scots government to petition the UN to halt UK activities.
2012-04-06 13:47
2012-04-06 13:59
Absolutely correct UpSpake. I think that there will be much talking going on with the international community, keeping people informed and bringing them along, rather than the Scots Government choosing to to go directly to the UN using official channels. Such action could be seen at this point as causing trouble with Westminster and may sour the relationship. Nothing to be gained yet by doing so. 2014 is still a long time away in politics. They are keeping their powder dry.
Only problem is all the party political “Urinating” may turn it into “A damp squib”.
2012-04-06 14:33
The result a few years from now may seem like a damp squid looking back after 2014. There will be other news stories in the next few weeks that may over shadow the results of this, however the long term goal will not change until after 2014. In this context it is only a small part of the process to the long term goal, yet to be achieved.
2012-04-06 13:41
Why does the SNP not stop digging a hole they are already in over their heads?
This party political “Urinating Contest” has gone far enough.
2012-04-06 13:58
2012-04-06 13:52
Why not stop criticising absolutely everything coming from the SNP – has it not sunk in that nobody’s actually caring what you think.
2012-04-06 14:06
exel – it’s a case of “you show me yours and I’ll show you mine”.
Why not stop criticising absolutely everything coming from the SNP – has it not sunk in that nobody’s actually caring what you think.
Does that mean I do not have the right to say what I think?
2012-04-06 14:24
2012-04-06 14:24
You can bet good money that the facts will be better organised and shown from the Scottish consultation when it does get published.
exel, you do have the right to post what you think, they may not agree, but at least we can discuss points here.
2012-04-06 17:15
2012-04-06 14:23
Panda apart this is a good summation of Labour’s position by Steve Bell in the Guardian:
guardian.co.uk/…/…
2012-04-06 14:53
Also interested to see the 2nd comment re Carwyn Jones, who “is already making noises about how whatever happens after Scots Independence will require a new constitution and new relationships not just with Wales and Northern Ireland but the English regions“.
If true, it would seem that the Labour Party have at least (or perhaps only) one senior member with the ability to think, unlike “Scottish” Labour, it would appear.
If Sion is around, I’d be interested in his views on that gentleman. Any prospect of him becoming their leader when Milly minor resigns, for example?
2012-04-06 15:30
Watford will also become even more prominent, expecially if London gets DevoMax!
I have also read, Daily Record if I remember correctly, that Scottish Inependence could have repercussions as far away as Australia.
2012-04-06 19:34
I’d guess they’ll be governed by the successors of UKIP, who’ll clearly need a new name for themselves. Poundland Peoples’ Party?
Reading and Guildford would provide similar bastions against the hordes of the great unwashed from Wessex.
2012-04-06 14:53
to reception@scots man.com
copy info
snp.orgGood Afternoon,
Please do something about the fiddling of your online poll
Independence poll
Friday, 6 April 2012
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes
12932 (72%)
No
5115 (28%)
The 9000 votes added to this poll in the last 14 hours indicates that someone at the Scotman or an outside Bot
is manipulating the voting figures.
Please inform me that if I want to take this further I should contact the Press Complaints Commission
2012-04-06 16:51
Still, they are always playing catchup.
2012-04-06 16:52
2012-04-06 15:10
2012-04-06 16:54
“In today’s commercialised world, there is a case for having next month’s elections formally sponsored by Rentokil. Every time a tory or quisling seat is lost , a little onscreen graphic could appear. Possibly Nye Bevan holding an aerosol can…”
2012-04-06 17:04
Should be a great night, with a number of highlights and much entertainment value
2012-04-06 19:14
2012-04-06 17:15
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes 12965 (54%)
No 11085 (46%)