General
Friday, 06 April 2012 01:45
101 Comments
By Martin Kelly
The Scottish National Party has revealed that they plan to submit a Freedom of Information request to the UK Government in order to reveal the extent Labour party online submissions played in the UK Government’s referendum consultation.
In a statement issued today [Friday] the SNP’s Westminster leader Angus Robertson said that he would be submitting Freedom of Information requests and tabling a series of Parliamentary Questions to find out how many responses were submitted via Labour’s website with amended wording and with the pre-set text.
The demands for transparency follow the revelation that over a quarter – 740 out of the 2,857 – responses to the UK Government’s referendum consultation contained the identical text from the Labour Party website, however the total number from the site has yet to emerge.
On BBC Good Morning Scotland yesterday, Scottish Secretary Michael Moore said that the 740 responses are “the same as the Labour Party text on their website”.
The admission from Mr Moore followed a statement from the Scotland Office that revealed over two hundred submissions to the UK Government consultation were either duplicates or were anonymous.
Describing the Westminster led process as “discredited”, Mr Robertson said:
“It is high time Michael Moore came clean. He is trying to dictate the terms and timing of Scotland’s referendum from Westminster, on the basis of a discredited consultation and a Labour block vote.
“We only know that over a quarter of the responses to the UK Government consultation were the identical text from the Labour Party website because it was dragged out of Michael Moore during a BBC interview – nowhere does this information appear in the Scotland Office report.
“But how many more came from Labour’s website, with slightly amended wording?”
Mr Robertson repeated calls for an independent analysis of the results from the final report claiming that without scrutiny “it isn’t worth the paper it is written on”.
Mr Robertson made clear that the form used by Labour was not the issue and indeed his party encouraged such participation. However the senior SNP MP insisted that the process had to be subject to robust independent scrutiny if integrity was to be established.
He said:
“The SNP encourage such participation in consultations by political parties and other organisations and individuals, that is not the issue. The issue is that we need to know the full detail of the Scotland Office consultation submissions, and how many in total came from Labour’s website, given that they have clearly swamped the puny number of overall responses. The consultation needs to be independently analysed, properly detailed and broken down by categories.”
Mr Robertson cited the Scottish Government’s own pledge to have their consultation independently analysed and labelled Michael Moore’s rejection of similar scrutiny “a disgrace”.
He added:
“The reality is that the anti-independence parties are in cahoots to try to dictate the terms and timing of Scotland’s referendum from Westminster – they have been partially exposed, and I am now submitting a series of FOI requests and parliamentary questions to find out the real extent of Labour’s swamping of the Tory/Lib Dem consultation.”
An under pressure Michael Moore refused to appear on Newsnight Scotland on Wednesday evening to answer questions on his Government’s consultation.
Newsnet Scotland contacted the Scotland Office on Tuesday and again on Thursday with our own questions relating to the consultation. However to date we have received no reply.
Comments
#
2012-04-05 19:47
We also haven’t been told how many came from people in Scotland (and note that people outside Scotland who chose to use the Scottish Labour website form would effectively hide their location, so we may have no idea where those 700+ responses originated).
#
2012-04-05 19:49
To keep this from being reported I assume our state broadcaster would be very ,very,very grateful if someone found a pregnant panda…… preferrably up a tree on a unicycle.
I predict that this will be glossed over or not reported by the BBC.
I predict that this will be glossed over or not reported by the BBC.
#
2012-04-05 19:59
The BBC have already made their minds up that the UK consultation is totally legit and the Scottish consultation is flawed. Doubt that will change.
‘Most back single Scots question’ is the headline the BBC continue to run with in their article on the UK consultation. I wonder what the headline will be when the Scottish consultation results are released.
‘Most back single Scots question’ is the headline the BBC continue to run with in their article on the UK consultation. I wonder what the headline will be when the Scottish consultation results are released.
#
2012-04-05 20:01
[/Mr Robertson made clear that the form used by Labour was not the issue and indeed his party encouraged such participationb]
I think this is an important statement. He is protecting the SNP position.
I think this is an important statement. He is protecting the SNP position.
#
2012-04-05 20:23
Aye but I also would suspect he’s also had a wee shufty at the SG submissions and there can’t be too many coming from the SNP site, definitely not in the percentages coming from the labour site for the UK Consultation! He’s no daft. He is leading them to comment on that so that he can then pull out exactly how tiny the number is. Baiting them. It’s brilliant to watch, yet they fall for it every time!!!
#
2012-04-05 20:39
Quote:
Therefore, why haven’t the BBC followed up on this and actually do what they are supposed to do – provide a story.
Ah, silly me ^
On BBC Good Morning Scotland yesterday, Scottish Secretary Michael Moore said that the 740 responses are “the same as the Labour Party text on their website”.
Therefore, why haven’t the BBC followed up on this and actually do what they are supposed to do – provide a story.
Ah, silly me ^
#
2012-04-05 21:09
I know some people used the Labour Party proforma but changed the wording to a pro-independence submission. It would be interesting if they submitted a FOI request to see if their views had been received by Westminster.
#
2012-04-06 03:19
I did this, giggling as I went, and today I did receive an email from, I think the Scotland Office thanking me for my submission, so we can only suppose that Labour allowed me to tinker with their great uber plan to wreck the consultation process.
#
2012-04-05 21:11
I heard the interview with Moore, what a slimy little weasel this guy is, the man who called for the abolition of the post of Scottish secretary, but then again why be surprised as the Lib Dems have sold out every single shred of principle and decency they ever had to get a sniff of power.
Independence will be all the sweeter when it comes in spite of the unionist smears and negativity, all aided and abetted by the state broadcaster.
Independence will be all the sweeter when it comes in spite of the unionist smears and negativity, all aided and abetted by the state broadcaster.
#
2012-04-05 21:36
I dont think Moore will be under any pressure.
The Brit media will see to that.
Though this article by Lesley Riddoch seems spot on!
guardian.co.uk/…/…
The Brit media will see to that.
Though this article by Lesley Riddoch seems spot on!
guardian.co.uk/…/…
#
2012-04-05 21:49
Yes, that article is indeed spot on.
Imagine Brian Taylor at the BBC writing something like that, ie the truth and no spin.
Imagine Brian Taylor at the BBC writing something like that, ie the truth and no spin.
#
2012-04-05 22:14
OT again, I’m afraid, but are people happy that “Scotland’s ex-top civil servant” Sir John Elvidge (Global Infrstructure Partners) may be in line to head Edinburgh Airport? Is he a goody? It sounds a bit strange to me but then what would I know.
www.ianfraser.org/…/
www.ianfraser.org/…/
#
2012-04-05 22:33
Marga, at present I’m just very pleased that Sir Angus Grossart and his bid with The Carlyle Group has fallen through. That I would not have liked to see happen.
#
2012-04-05 22:37
With independence, Edinburgh airport, indeed all airports in Scotland, will be a beehive of activity with aircraft arriving/departing from foreign country / destinations whom are interested in our new free country – it just needs the right people in charge and free of ANY Westminster shackles..
#
2012-04-05 22:56
#tartanfever…..ah Sir Angus Grossart, that well know member of the Speculative Debating Society of Edinburgh. Now there’s an organisation that’s worth looking into.
#
2012-04-05 23:30
The Brit MSM wont put any pressure on him. If the Pro Independnce cause does manage to get through to him then Cameron will give him a sweetie and tell him to go sit in a corner and be quiet. If he utters so much as one “but!” then Cameron will sneer at him “Do you want that Knighthood or not Mikey?! Now be a good toady and shut up!”
#
2012-04-05 23:56
O/T if anyone is interested the deficit figures for 2011-2012 have been released. With all the cuts in place London only overspent their budget and added £124.6 billion to the national debt. Scotland was in deficit in the region of £6.4 billion. If you do the sums this means Scotland is being asked to pay towards Englands deficit of £118.2 billion and debt of £5.5 trillion. England has been in deficit for the last 9 years Scotland only the last 2 years. The deficit figures can be viewed here:-
ons.gov.uk/…/…
ons.gov.uk/…/…
#
2012-04-06 00:32
O/T The Scotsman’s poll on whether the independence referendum should be brought forward from 2014 had jumped over the past 24 hours from 61% No’s to 45%
#
2012-04-06 00:53
at 00.50 hours it was 6230 votes for YES (57 %) and climbing by the minute…someone needs to look into this !
#
2012-04-06 01:14
Yes Votes
0.56h 6455
0.57h 6598
01:00h 6749
01:01 reset to 0% 0%
01:03h 6904
01:04h 6948
01:05h 7000
01:06h 7108
01:07h 7141
01:08h 7171
01:09h 7195 – these are votes in favour of bringing forward the 2014 referendum date.
I cannot believe I am witnessing this blatent rigging of a newspaper poll !!!!
0.56h 6455
0.57h 6598
01:00h 6749
01:01 reset to 0% 0%
01:03h 6904
01:04h 6948
01:05h 7000
01:06h 7108
01:07h 7141
01:08h 7171
01:09h 7195 – these are votes in favour of bringing forward the 2014 referendum date.
I cannot believe I am witnessing this blatent rigging of a newspaper poll !!!!
#
2012-04-06 01:26
kendo – life’s too short – dinnae waste yer time looking at the North Britisher!
It’s rubbish, we know it and they know it.
It’s rubbish, we know it and they know it.
#
2012-04-06 01:33
You took it from my keyboard, Barontorc.
Early today it surprised me there have been no changes in the last few days and I wondered about how long it would take till they’d do something about it.
But I wasn’t expecting them counting how many readers they lose per minute.
Early today it surprised me there have been no changes in the last few days and I wondered about how long it would take till they’d do something about it.
But I wasn’t expecting them counting how many readers they lose per minute.
#
2012-04-06 01:42
I know what you mean, but in this instance I am witnessing it right before my eyes… 01.15 Yes votes 7542 and I monitored it every minute to 01:38 where the yes votes have increased to 8812 incredible, unbelievable and thoroughly disheartening.
2000 + votes in less than an hour…
2000 + votes in less than an hour…
#
2012-04-06 01:54
Quoting bipod:
www.scotsman.com/news/politics
you will see it near the top right corner… refresh the page every minute or so and watch the votes rise… pls confirm if you do 🙂
link to the poll? I would like to see it for myself.
www.scotsman.com/news/politics
you will see it near the top right corner… refresh the page every minute or so and watch the votes rise… pls confirm if you do 🙂
#
2012-04-06 02:01
yup, the yes vote has gone up by atleast 400 votes since i started viewing it 5 or so minutes ago.
#
2012-04-06 08:34
Just went for a peek = I didn’t think the Scotsman had that many readers.
I seem to remember that particular paper was ” fun oot” adding its own comments to skew debate, looks like they are doing it again.
Didnt they have a nice wee poll but wouldn’t divulge the results ?
I seem to remember that particular paper was ” fun oot” adding its own comments to skew debate, looks like they are doing it again.
Didnt they have a nice wee poll but wouldn’t divulge the results ?
#
2012-04-06 03:05
Taking your count of 8812 votes at 01:38 and my count of 11,607 votes for yes at 02:48. That is 2795 votes over 70 minutes or 39.92 per minute or 1.33 votes every 2 seconds. Bear in mind that the count now seems to have stopped at 11,607 so the rate was probably higher.
So, when you don’t like what the people say, programme a votebot to say what it is you want the people to.
Sorry if my calculations are wrong, it is very late and I have had beer. Not alot, but enough.
So, when you don’t like what the people say, programme a votebot to say what it is you want the people to.
Sorry if my calculations are wrong, it is very late and I have had beer. Not alot, but enough.
#
2012-04-06 10:10
Yup, no question these additional votes came from a bot.
Its bad enough their comments sections are completely infested by unionist sockpuppets (roughly 6 unemployed individuals posting under many usernames), and now this!
Its bad enough their comments sections are completely infested by unionist sockpuppets (roughly 6 unemployed individuals posting under many usernames), and now this!
#
2012-04-06 11:29
at 0.56hours it stood at ‘Yes’ (bring it forward) 6455 votes
I stopped monitoring at 02.04 hrs and that number had increased to 10,170 ‘Yes’
If a ‘national’ newspaper can manipulate the ‘news’ in such a fashion, I honestly dispair.
I stopped monitoring at 02.04 hrs and that number had increased to 10,170 ‘Yes’
If a ‘national’ newspaper can manipulate the ‘news’ in such a fashion, I honestly dispair.
#
2012-04-06 12:41
Quoting kendomacaroonba r:
…and that hour was one when most people in Scotland were in their beds!
2000 + votes in less than an hour…
…and that hour was one when most people in Scotland were in their beds!
#
2012-04-06 12:29
Sterling work Kendo.
The excuses from @KennyFarq Kenny Farquharson deputy editor of Scotland on Sunday so far include:
1. Er, how about a less paranoid explanation: a big chunk of our web readership is US diaspora, in diff time zone.
2. Viewed from a real newsroom and not
the Evil Unionist Nervecentre of your imaginings, your claim is ludicrous.
The excuses from @KennyFarq Kenny Farquharson deputy editor of Scotland on Sunday so far include:
1. Er, how about a less paranoid explanation: a big chunk of our web readership is US diaspora, in diff time zone.
2. Viewed from a real newsroom and not
the Evil Unionist Nervecentre of your imaginings, your claim is ludicrous.
#
2012-04-06 16:26
I have minute by minute votes registered from 0.56hours to 02.04 hours.
The guy cannot justify this as a ‘blip’ caused by US posters
The guy cannot justify this as a ‘blip’ caused by US posters
#
2012-04-06 01:10
Hi,
Sorry to be O/T
Re the Scotsman poll @ 1.05am 7000
yes,no @ 4757.
I have been watching it go up since about 12.45. No change to the no vote.
Sorry to be O/T
Re the Scotsman poll @ 1.05am 7000
yes,no @ 4757.
I have been watching it go up since about 12.45. No change to the no vote.
#
2012-04-06 02:29
Good spot, Kendo just checked it and it has leapt to 70% in favour of an earlier referendum.
I also noticed that the option to vote seems to be closed.
I voted in this poll ages ago and it was running roughly 60 / 40 in favour of 2014 until just now. Funny, that, eh?
I also noticed that the option to vote seems to be closed.
I voted in this poll ages ago and it was running roughly 60 / 40 in favour of 2014 until just now. Funny, that, eh?
#
2012-04-06 03:16
Conveniently, it has stopped just about where the UK consultaion claims support for an early referendum is at. Funnily enough, it has more in common with the UK consultation as it is completely unreliable and rigged by unionists.
#
2012-04-06 03:32
Independence poll
Friday, 6 April 2012
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes
11608 (71%)
No
4780 (29%)
Time 03:30
But they did let me vote, awfie good of them
So they added 5000 (THOUSAND) votes over the day,
Do you think they’ve been to Glenrothes 😉
Friday, 6 April 2012
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes
11608 (71%)
No
4780 (29%)
Time 03:30
But they did let me vote, awfie good of them
So they added 5000 (THOUSAND) votes over the day,
Do you think they’ve been to Glenrothes 😉
#
2012-04-06 11:06
More people have voted in this poll than actually buy the Hootsman.
Most of the votes having been completed at a very late hour of the night.
If you add up all the activists and supporters of the SNP, you have a figure of around 22,000 – 25,000 people.
If you add up all the politicly active Unionists you would be lucky to hit more than 10,000 I would think.
The Westminster consultation gets in the region of 2,800 (figure rounded up)
The Scottish consultation receives around 12,000 votes.
Does the Hootsman really believe that anyone will give this poll any credit?
Scots are a canny bunch, and can see through this. It is quite fitting that many voters already have an increased awareness to much of what is going on in the media.
Scotland is maturing as a country and this childish behaviour is being seen for what it is.
Seen in the round Scotland as a country and people are moving towards the bright light of a more content nation. As a people we want more of this enlightenment in all areas of our lives, we understand it takes months, even years to pull all together, but people realise it is happening.
Most of the votes having been completed at a very late hour of the night.
If you add up all the activists and supporters of the SNP, you have a figure of around 22,000 – 25,000 people.
If you add up all the politicly active Unionists you would be lucky to hit more than 10,000 I would think.
The Westminster consultation gets in the region of 2,800 (figure rounded up)
The Scottish consultation receives around 12,000 votes.
Does the Hootsman really believe that anyone will give this poll any credit?
Scots are a canny bunch, and can see through this. It is quite fitting that many voters already have an increased awareness to much of what is going on in the media.
Scotland is maturing as a country and this childish behaviour is being seen for what it is.
Seen in the round Scotland as a country and people are moving towards the bright light of a more content nation. As a people we want more of this enlightenment in all areas of our lives, we understand it takes months, even years to pull all together, but people realise it is happening.
#
2012-04-06 13:06
Quoting tartanpigsy:
Maybe the North British Person newsrag did indeed take their cue for this sham poll from the Glenrothes shambles, and wheeled out the entire zombie cast from the excellent US horror/drama The Walking Dead to vote!
Independence poll
Friday, 6 April 2012
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes
11608 (71%)
No
4780 (29%)
Time 03:30
But they did let me vote, awfie good of them
So they added 5000 (THOUSAND) votes over the day,
Do you think they’ve been to Glenrothes 😉
Maybe the North British Person newsrag did indeed take their cue for this sham poll from the Glenrothes shambles, and wheeled out the entire zombie cast from the excellent US horror/drama The Walking Dead to vote!
#
2012-04-06 09:11
I think someone mentioned it on this site the other day (it was somewhere anyway). The Scotchman was running the consultation story claiming that over 70% of people favoured an early referendum. However, it was a bit embarrassing to have an online poll set up by the newspaper claiming the complete opposite right next to it.
#
2012-04-06 08:57
I would be more concerned that there were so few respondents to their consultation. I also agree that demographics should be put out where possible, age, location etc but not gender as that is not relevant to this debate. In the main though the debate is not about the timing as the Scottish Government would be foolish to bring it forward, we have had hundreds of years of lies so 1000 days of trying to get the truth out isn’t a big deal unless you fear the result as people become educated. No the debate is do we have one or two questions. I initially thought two but actually the more I think about it and the more I see the anti-independence campaign one is fine. I think the Fibdems/Torries will be in meltdown by 2014 anyway and the Liebour Party is going to have to destroy it’self and start again if it is to have any hope of gaining any significant ground in any part of the UK. I now know people who are starting to question every headline on the BBC and in the media as it is just not their experience day to day in Scotland anymore. What they hear is that the SNP is the devil it’self but what they see is a party trying it’s best to represent Scotland and it’s way of life. I think May will be very interesting, if the SNP do very well then fear will really kick in as will the negative propoganda, if the other parties even break even then the propoganda will go down a different route and will be more about SNP failure. We can all see what is coming and just need to be prepared for it. Either way the SNP have to stick to their timescale. A wee side question though if someone could answer for me, in May how will it influence the vote if you only vote for one candidate and not number your preference right down the list. I actually don’t like multi-member wards and transferrable vote. I would much prefer a pr system locally. But if everyone just voted for their first choice would a political party have a better chance of gaining control of a local authority.
#
2012-04-06 09:24
Vote SNP 1 2 3 then Green, DO NOT vote for Unionist parties.
At a local bye election last year an SNP candidate who was leading on the first, second and third count was beaten on the fourth and final count by “2nd” preferences.
At a local bye election last year an SNP candidate who was leading on the first, second and third count was beaten on the fourth and final count by “2nd” preferences.
#
2012-04-06 12:51
But those must have been non-SNP second preferences as the SNP candidate’s votes would not have been redistributed at that stage.
You’re not obliged to vote for anyone you don’t want to vote for, and I will only be voting SNP (unless there are any independents I feel are worthy of my lower preferences). I have no idea how such a voting pattern may influence the outcome.
You’re not obliged to vote for anyone you don’t want to vote for, and I will only be voting SNP (unless there are any independents I feel are worthy of my lower preferences). I have no idea how such a voting pattern may influence the outcome.
#
2012-04-06 09:30
Just the other day the pundits were saying that company shareholders do not like bad publicity which damages the reputation of the companies they invest in. These remarks were being said in relation to the email hacking carried out for Sky News. Would it be any different for the shareholders of the Scotsman if their paper if being shown to be involved in news manipulation which can damage their reputation? Do they even know that this newspaper is up to these sorts of activities?
#
2012-04-06 09:40
I think most Scotsman shareholders will be quite happy with what the paper is doing.
#
2012-04-06 09:44
I can confirm 1 contribution to the uk consultation came directly from the labour website from me. Suitably amended of course.
#
2012-04-06 10:19
Quoting McHaggis:
McHaggis,
an interesting little snippet from the code in the Labour referendum consultation form on their website.
www.scottishlabour.org.uk/…/
They are not sending responses to the UK consultation anymore as it has finished but there are still two email addresses in the html code.
<input type=”hidden” name=”RecipientsAddre sses” value=”referendum@scot land.gsi.gov.uk haveyoursay@lab our.org.uk” />
From this code snippet it would appear that Labour are monitoring all responses to the consultation going through their website by sending a copy to an email address they own. It would seem they are retaining personal data in an unauthorised manner not in keeping with the Data Protection Act.
In other words they’ve now got your email address and any other personal details you put in your submission.
I’d suggest a word with the Data Commissioner as that is a clear breach of the Data Protection Act.
I can confirm 1 contribution to the uk consultation came directly from the labour website from me. Suitably amended of course.
McHaggis,
an interesting little snippet from the code in the Labour referendum consultation form on their website.
www.scottishlabour.org.uk/…/
They are not sending responses to the UK consultation anymore as it has finished but there are still two email addresses in the html code.
<input type=”hidden” name=”RecipientsAddre sses” value=”referendum@scot land.gsi.gov.uk haveyoursay@lab our.org.uk” />
From this code snippet it would appear that Labour are monitoring all responses to the consultation going through their website by sending a copy to an email address they own. It would seem they are retaining personal data in an unauthorised manner not in keeping with the Data Protection Act.
In other words they’ve now got your email address and any other personal details you put in your submission.
I’d suggest a word with the Data Commissioner as that is a clear breach of the Data Protection Act.
#
2012-04-06 10:02
Hirta. Not with the absurd APD they won’t. Scotland independent should abolish this ludricous tax for nothing. No benifit to the climate the only benificiary is the Treasury and we all know where that is – yes, in London.
I will fly nowhere until this crazy tax is abolished.
I will fly nowhere until this crazy tax is abolished.
#
2012-04-06 10:24
If you want to fly from Edinburgh to Japan it is a lot cheaper to go via Paris rather than via London Heathrow.
#
2012-04-06 12:05
If you fly BA, to say, JFK, but make your starting airport say Amsterdam, then a biz class return is a lot less. It does mean a separate journey to Amsterdam, but it can save thousands of pounds on biz class tickets with BA.
To prove this, I’ve just checked the latest cheapest biz class prices to fly to JFK in biz class with BA, out on 1st May, back on 5th May. From Amsterdam via LHR in biz, the cheapest fare is 2470 Euros. To JFK in biz class starting in Edinburgh via LHR, the price is 4000.60 pounds. Same LHR to JFK flights, just connecting from AMS instead of EDI.
Not sure if the difference is all due to APD though.
To prove this, I’ve just checked the latest cheapest biz class prices to fly to JFK in biz class with BA, out on 1st May, back on 5th May. From Amsterdam via LHR in biz, the cheapest fare is 2470 Euros. To JFK in biz class starting in Edinburgh via LHR, the price is 4000.60 pounds. Same LHR to JFK flights, just connecting from AMS instead of EDI.
Not sure if the difference is all due to APD though.
#
2012-04-06 10:32
Moore marvels at Invergordon firm’s polished performance
THE success of an Easter Ross firm has been hailed as the way to go by the Secretary of State for Scotland.
He seemed to keep this visit very quiet and the head office is in America.
Kirker Enterprises, Inc
55 East 6th Street
Paterson, New Jersey 07524
USA
I wonder if they pay corporation tax in UK??
THE success of an Easter Ross firm has been hailed as the way to go by the Secretary of State for Scotland.
He seemed to keep this visit very quiet and the head office is in America.
Kirker Enterprises, Inc
55 East 6th Street
Paterson, New Jersey 07524
USA
I wonder if they pay corporation tax in UK??
#
2012-04-06 12:38
Wow!
Looks like the total of supposed responses to their crooked poll
exceeds the number of people who actually buy the paper.
I wonder, does the Beano have higher circulation figures
than the Scotsman newspaper ?
Looks like the total of supposed responses to their crooked poll
exceeds the number of people who actually buy the paper.
I wonder, does the Beano have higher circulation figures
than the Scotsman newspaper ?
#
2012-04-06 13:27
The Scotsman have their own political agenda.
Over the past few weeks we are seeing stories such as this (Unionist POV) coming out late in the week and running over the weekend, before dying away at the start of the following week.
This time next week we are going to see another story/stories running along the lines of SNP doing the wrong thing policy wise and Scots want the Status Quo.
No one in Scotland is falling for this noise however.
2014 is getting closer, Westminster still have to give the nod to the legality of the referendum (in their eyes) which doesn’t look like happening any time soon, in which case it shows that they are not in any real hurry either.
The Scottish people would rather have information rather than all this political bluster and noise that acts only as a minor distraction.
Over the past few weeks we are seeing stories such as this (Unionist POV) coming out late in the week and running over the weekend, before dying away at the start of the following week.
This time next week we are going to see another story/stories running along the lines of SNP doing the wrong thing policy wise and Scots want the Status Quo.
No one in Scotland is falling for this noise however.
2014 is getting closer, Westminster still have to give the nod to the legality of the referendum (in their eyes) which doesn’t look like happening any time soon, in which case it shows that they are not in any real hurry either.
The Scottish people would rather have information rather than all this political bluster and noise that acts only as a minor distraction.
#
2012-04-06 13:28
One thing which must remain crystal clear is that the UK government nor any of their agencies and that includes the BBC can in any way interfere with the chosen will of the Scots people to presue their desire, as articulated by their chosen representatives , the majority SNP administration, in their persuit of self-determination. They must step back and allow the Scots to decide how, and when they will enact their referendum. It is 100% the call of the Scots government here and absolutely no-one else.
The international community are aware of what is going on as far as the Council of Europe and the OSCE is concerned. If this interference continues, this time its up to the Scots government to petition the UN to halt UK activities.
The international community are aware of what is going on as far as the Council of Europe and the OSCE is concerned. If this interference continues, this time its up to the Scots government to petition the UN to halt UK activities.
#
2012-04-06 13:47
Absolutely correct UpSpake. I think that there will be much talking going on with the international community, keeping people informed and bringing them along, rather than the Scots Government choosing to to go directly to the UN using official channels. Such action could be seen at this point as causing trouble with Westminster and may sour the relationship. Nothing to be gained yet by doing so. 2014 is still a long time away in politics. They are keeping their powder dry.
#
2012-04-06 13:59
Quoting Adrian B:
Only problem is all the party political “Urinating” may turn it into “A damp squib”.
Absolutely correct UpSpake. I think that there will be much talking going on with the international community, keeping people informed and bringing them along, rather than the Scots Government choosing to to go directly to the UN using official channels. Such action could be seen at this point as causing trouble with Westminster and may sour the relationship. Nothing to be gained yet by doing so. 2014 is still a long time away in politics. They are keeping their powder dry.
Only problem is all the party political “Urinating” may turn it into “A damp squib”.
#
2012-04-06 14:33
exel, this is part and parcel of the spin that all parties work with. It is hard to get the absolute truth out at all times – some parties try harder than others at this. Seems to me that some parties just put out bluster, spin, lies and misinformation at all times.
The result a few years from now may seem like a damp squid looking back after 2014. There will be other news stories in the next few weeks that may over shadow the results of this, however the long term goal will not change until after 2014. In this context it is only a small part of the process to the long term goal, yet to be achieved.
The result a few years from now may seem like a damp squid looking back after 2014. There will be other news stories in the next few weeks that may over shadow the results of this, however the long term goal will not change until after 2014. In this context it is only a small part of the process to the long term goal, yet to be achieved.
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2012-04-06 13:41
“In a statement issued today [Friday] the SNP’s Westminster leader Angus Robertson said that he would be submitting Freedom of Information requests and tabling a series of Parliamentary Questions to find out how many responses were submitted via Labour’s website with amended wording and with the pre-set text.”
Why does the SNP not stop digging a hole they are already in over their heads?
This party political “Urinating Contest” has gone far enough.
Why does the SNP not stop digging a hole they are already in over their heads?
This party political “Urinating Contest” has gone far enough.
#
2012-04-06 13:58
It was Labour that opened this can of worms over the Scottish Government consultation process, purely as a piece of party political anti-Nat bashing. There can hardly be any complaints if it comes back and bites them on the arse.
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2012-04-06 13:52
exel – it’s a case of “you show me yours and I’ll show you mine”.
Why not stop criticising absolutely everything coming from the SNP – has it not sunk in that nobody’s actually caring what you think.
Why not stop criticising absolutely everything coming from the SNP – has it not sunk in that nobody’s actually caring what you think.
#
2012-04-06 14:06
Barontorc 2012-04-06 13:52
exel – it’s a case of “you show me yours and I’ll show you mine”.
Why not stop criticising absolutely everything coming from the SNP – has it not sunk in that nobody’s actually caring what you think.
Does that mean I do not have the right to say what I think?
exel – it’s a case of “you show me yours and I’ll show you mine”.
Why not stop criticising absolutely everything coming from the SNP – has it not sunk in that nobody’s actually caring what you think.
Does that mean I do not have the right to say what I think?
#
2012-04-06 14:24
I took it as a plea to be a little bit less negative but negativity is the primary Unionist argument so I appreciate that this would be like tying one hand behind your back. For the record, I like the negativity as it is much easier to counter 🙂
#
2012-04-06 14:24
Angus Robertson clearly believes that getting the facts out on the poorly responded to Westminster consultation will give some distance to the Scottish consultation which runs through to next month before the results will be published.
You can bet good money that the facts will be better organised and shown from the Scottish consultation when it does get published.
exel, you do have the right to post what you think, they may not agree, but at least we can discuss points here.
You can bet good money that the facts will be better organised and shown from the Scottish consultation when it does get published.
exel, you do have the right to post what you think, they may not agree, but at least we can discuss points here.
#
2012-04-06 17:15
I think it was more in the manner of friendly advice that you’re wasting your energy.
#
2012-04-06 14:23
OT
Panda apart this is a good summation of Labour’s position by Steve Bell in the Guardian:
guardian.co.uk/…/…
Panda apart this is a good summation of Labour’s position by Steve Bell in the Guardian:
guardian.co.uk/…/…
#
2012-04-06 14:53
Agreed.
Also interested to see the 2nd comment re Carwyn Jones, who “is already making noises about how whatever happens after Scots Independence will require a new constitution and new relationships not just with Wales and Northern Ireland but the English regions“.
If true, it would seem that the Labour Party have at least (or perhaps only) one senior member with the ability to think, unlike “Scottish” Labour, it would appear.
If Sion is around, I’d be interested in his views on that gentleman. Any prospect of him becoming their leader when Milly minor resigns, for example?
Also interested to see the 2nd comment re Carwyn Jones, who “is already making noises about how whatever happens after Scots Independence will require a new constitution and new relationships not just with Wales and Northern Ireland but the English regions“.
If true, it would seem that the Labour Party have at least (or perhaps only) one senior member with the ability to think, unlike “Scottish” Labour, it would appear.
If Sion is around, I’d be interested in his views on that gentleman. Any prospect of him becoming their leader when Milly minor resigns, for example?
#
2012-04-06 15:30
Aye Browndov
Watford will also become even more prominent, expecially if London gets DevoMax!
I have also read, Daily Record if I remember correctly, that Scottish Inependence could have repercussions as far away as Australia.
Watford will also become even more prominent, expecially if London gets DevoMax!
I have also read, Daily Record if I remember correctly, that Scottish Inependence could have repercussions as far away as Australia.
#
2012-04-06 19:34
Yes, I could imagine Watford becoming the Northern bastion of the new Kingdom of M25shire Poundland outside the EEA and a border trading post with the Kingdom of Mercia (within the EEA and Schengen).
I’d guess they’ll be governed by the successors of UKIP, who’ll clearly need a new name for themselves. Poundland Peoples’ Party?
Reading and Guildford would provide similar bastions against the hordes of the great unwashed from Wessex.
I’d guess they’ll be governed by the successors of UKIP, who’ll clearly need a new name for themselves. Poundland Peoples’ Party?
Reading and Guildford would provide similar bastions against the hordes of the great unwashed from Wessex.
#
2012-04-06 14:53
I’ve sent the following email to the Scotsman
to reception@scots man.com
copy info
snp.org
Good Afternoon,
Please do something about the fiddling of your online poll
Independence poll
Friday, 6 April 2012
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes
12932 (72%)
No
5115 (28%)
The 9000 votes added to this poll in the last 14 hours indicates that someone at the Scotman or an outside Bot
is manipulating the voting figures.
Please inform me that if I want to take this further I should contact the Press Complaints Commission
to reception@scots man.com
copy info
snp.orgGood Afternoon,
Please do something about the fiddling of your online poll
Independence poll
Friday, 6 April 2012
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes
12932 (72%)
No
5115 (28%)
The 9000 votes added to this poll in the last 14 hours indicates that someone at the Scotman or an outside Bot
is manipulating the voting figures.
Please inform me that if I want to take this further I should contact the Press Complaints Commission
#
2012-04-06 16:51
The paper has missed April 1 by a few days.
Still, they are always playing catchup.
Still, they are always playing catchup.
#
2012-04-06 16:52
You possibly won’t get very far. The Editor is on the Commission, I think representing the regional press ;))
#
2012-04-06 15:10
Oh well need to stop buying the The Hootsmon s***e and stop reading the The Hootsmon s***e online..simples! not a big decision surely after all the majority of the Scottish population read the Sun or the DR so that’s the people we need to work on, it maybe difficult but not impossible, remember May 2011, and roll on 2014
#
2012-04-06 16:54
OT but looking forward to the elections – here’s a pretty good comment on the Steve Bell (panda) cartoon in the Guardian (credit to TimMiddleton):
“In today’s commercialised world, there is a case for having next month’s elections formally sponsored by Rentokil. Every time a tory or quisling seat is lost , a little onscreen graphic could appear. Possibly Nye Bevan holding an aerosol can…”
“In today’s commercialised world, there is a case for having next month’s elections formally sponsored by Rentokil. Every time a tory or quisling seat is lost , a little onscreen graphic could appear. Possibly Nye Bevan holding an aerosol can…”
#
2012-04-06 17:04
I am also looking forward to the election coverage after the polls close. Taking friday off work and will watch coverage online and on TV.
Should be a great night, with a number of highlights and much entertainment value
Should be a great night, with a number of highlights and much entertainment value
#
2012-04-06 19:14
Agreed. One of those rare times when BBC political coverage will really be worth watching, especially if Ms Magnusson is on duty,
#
2012-04-06 17:15
At 5:10 PM – The Scotsman – Independence poll
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes 12965 (54%)
No 11085 (46%)
Should the independence referendum be brought forward from 2014?
Yes 12965 (54%)
No 11085 (46%)
Donate to Newsnet Scotland
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