By a Newsnet reporter

Last week we witnessed a political storm.  A blizzard of headlines, interviews, comments, broadcasts and debates – all revolving around a hitherto unremarked and unremarkable interview.

When Alex Salmond replied to a question from BBC journalist Andrew Neil last March, little did he know that his answer was the primer for a political time-bomb.

It exploded last week … and some.  When Paul Martin called Mr Salmond a bare faced liar it was a signal for one of the most concerted media campaigns ever witnessed in the UK.  Not since the Megrahi issue when so many political opponents, commentators and journalists lined up to attack Alex Salmond have we seen such a co-ordinated campaign.

With the smoke clearing and the verbal shrapnel having settled, we can now see clearly the damage that has been inflicted.  Mr Salmond’s reputation has taken a hit, no question.

Nobody, not even Gandhi, could emerge unscathed from such an assault on his character.  However there is another victim in this kaleidoscope of half-truths, verbal contortions and semantic mis-interpretations – the BBC.

Newsnet Scotland has spent this weekend recording and analysing the output from the state broadcaster and this article reveals a shocking, one-sided view of the issue with Unionist commentators dominating the airwaves.

Politicians, journalists, broadcasters and commentators who appeared or were quoted were so overwhelmingly pro-Union that BBC Scotland’s coverage of the affair ended up little more than a one sided festival of propaganda.

There was little if any serious objective analysis and, even on the occasions when analysis was provided, it appeared to confuse separate issues and misinterpret events.

“It has now emerged no such advice has been obtained” said one BBC presenter on Good Morning Scotland in a clear misrepresentation of the fact that Scottish government documents were underpinned by advice from the law officers.

The ‘liar’ claims are now reported as though absolute fact and Alex Salmond is portrayed as a conman whose word cannot be trusted.  The Unionist dominated media are now citing their own accusations as evidence that they are valid.

Those same anti-Salmond headlines were even used by one presenter as justification for the BBC’s relentless, almost obsessive need to repeat every and all attacks made on Salmond by his Unionist opponents.

Unionist Politicians Michael Moore (Lib Dem), David Cameron (Tory), Alistair Darling (Labour), Paul Martin (Labour), Ruth Davidson (Tory), Johann Lamont (Labour), Michael Crockart (Lib Dem), Jackson Carlaw (Tory), Jackie Baillie (Labour) were joined by Unionist reporters Andrew Neil, Torcuil Crichton, Hamish McDonnell, Iain Macwhirter as Unionists dominated broadcasts.

How was it possible?  An interview was so vague and open to misinterpretation that it allowed those with an agenda to use it for their own ends.  Newspapers alone are no longer capable of mounting such a campaign, their circulation figures makes it impossible for anything other than an increasingly shrinking section of the population to be influenced by their reports.

As with previous campaigns against Mr Salmond and the SNP, whether commissioning polls during an election campaign or setting a narrative on the Megrahi issue, it needed the help of the BBC.

We begin our look back with a series of news clips from BBC Radio Scotland’s Newsdrive which were broadcast on the evening of the 24th – over 24 hours after Mr Salmond’s response to Paul Martin’s accusation that he was a “bare faced liar”.  The series of clips includes all references to the issue, with the exception of a report from BBC reporter Sarah Paterson.

This is but one programme, and what you will hear is an all-out attack on Mr Salmond by his political opponents.  Pay close attention to Raymond Buchanan’s analysis.

Newsdrive clips from 24th October

This whole programme was almost exclusively anti-Salmond and even allowed accusations that are clearly false to be broadcast.  The cost of defending the Freedom of Information request was not £100,000 but closer to £4000.

David Cameron’s deliberate conflation of advice that underpinned published documents with the specific advice now being sought prior to the Edinburgh Agreement is a recurring theme – it is also false to say that there was no advice.  Salmond made it perfectly clear that he had indeed sought advice from law officers on the legality of the published documents.

Keen listeners will have noticed BBC presenter Mhairi Stuart describing Nicola Sturgeon’s confirmation that the Scottish government was only now seeking legal advice on the specific issue of an independent Scotland’s EU status as “an admission”.  The word admission is of course usually associated with guilt or wrongdoing.

But it is Raymond Buchanan’s analysis that sticks out.

If you missed it here it is in isolation:

Buchanan’s analysis is false on one key area.  The BBC reporter claims that the documents referred to by Mr Salmond were underpinned, not on advice or opinion of law officers, but on “general legal opinions”.  This is untrue, as an official Scottish government statement has made clear, the law officers were indeed consulted over these documents prior to their publication.

However, to confirm this in the analysis is to significantly weaken Unionist claims that Salmond lied.

There is no doubt that the BBC poured significant resources into this story.  However the resources weren’t aimed at objectivity, just on relentless repeating of the allegations.

It seemed that this ‘did/didn’t’ row encroached into every avenue of BBC Scotland’s reporting and the message was essentially the same.  When one caller tried to make the point to Kaye Adams on her morning phone-in show that by repeating these claims relentlessly, the BBC were effectively promoting the Unionist message, the BBC presenter made a quite astonishing remark in defence of her employer.

According to Ms Adams, the BBC would have been in dereliction of its duty had it not reflected the headlines that were appearing in the newspapers.  It beggars belief that someone in such a high profile role that often calls for a basic understanding of Scottish politics believes that BBC Scotland should be steered by newspaper headlines.

Scotland is in a unique position in that there are no newspapers which support the main aim of the party of Government.  Headlines will, on matters of constitution, be overwhelmingly opposed to the SNP.

To make her point, Kaye Adams read out headlines from a raft of newspapers published that day, none of which supports independence.  Only one, the Scottish Sun, can be said to have any pro-SNP leanings having endorsed the party at the last election.  However the newspaper remains firmly in the undecided group when it comes to independence.

Hear the exchange here

Of course, BBC Scotland isn’t steered by newspapers, it doesn’t have to be.  BBC Scotland will adopt precisely the same stance as anti-SNP newspapers due to its own inherent pro-Union culture.   It is a culture that saw the broadcaster invite two pro-Union journalists onto Good Morning Scotland to give their ‘objective’ analysis on the ‘liar’ issue.

Both Hamish McDonnell and Torcuil Crichton, as expected, gave views that chimed with the Unionist attacks.  Both agreed that Alex Salmond had lost ‘trust’ and that independence had been damaged.

Mr Crichton and Mr McDonnell can be heard after an introduction by Brian Taylor

It was partisan from both men and with no dissenting voices to disrupt the anti-Salmond narrative, they were given a platform with no challenges to their assertions.  The loading of discussions and debates with pro-union commentators is one of the areas the Edinburgh Agreement, which contained a section on balanced broadcasting, needs to address.

The coverage also saw a quite remarkable interview where one BBC presenter interviewed another.  When Gary Robertson interviewed Andrew Neil, it was bizarre and quite surreal.  Robertson didn’t so much interview Neil, than allow him to make a series of comments that – not surprisingly – backed the view that Salmond lied.

Neil also made another claim that his reserachers had informed him that Alex Salmond had confirmed he had sought specific legal advice several times already.  This claim was new but was left hanging by Robertson who appeared in awe of his guest.

Hear Andrew Neil being ‘interviewed’ here

Such was the relentless coverage by BBC Scotland, it just isn’t possible to draw attention to every programme.  Andrew Neil’s feeding of Lib Dem MP Danny Alexander on Sunday, a question designed to invite another attack on Salmond, was yet another example of the one sided nature of the corporation’s coverage.

The lie claim was eventually muddied amid attacks on the FoI appeal and questions over whether clearance could have been sought from the Lord Advocate in order to address an apparent perception that advice on the specific issue on an independent Scotland in the EU had indeed already been sought.

Of course, these people who went around blithely believing advice had been sought, despite no clear definitive statement confirming it, are their own fools.  If the public have been led to believe that advice had been sought, then that can be laid squarely at the feet of journalists and presenters, like Andrew Neil, who reported it.

Andrew Neil, days after the interview in March, stated in front of an internal BBC seminar audience that Salmond had confirmed the legal advice had been sought.  Mr Neil allowed himself to believe this for months yet not one BBC Scotland reporter pressed the First Minister on something that may have breached Ministerial Code.

It also should be remembered that a central plank of Labour MEP, Catherine Stihler’s Freedom of Information appeal was to have the Scottish government confirm whether they already had, in their possession, the legal advice that Andrew Neil claimed had already been sought months earlier.

The whole reason for this concerted campaign was to attack the integrity of Alex Salmond – weaken him and they weaken the independence movement.  Whether the allegations and attacks are justified was not important.

The relentless coverage afforded Unionist attacks by the one organisation capable of promoting the ‘message’ right across the nation meant that it entered the psyche of many listeners and viewers.  The attacks were echoed and amplified by the BBC.

In that sense, it is job done.

We will end this article with a number of interview clips, featuring Conservative MSP Jackson Carlaw, Labour MSP Jackie Baillie and Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.  There also follows clips of the issue as it was reported on Reporting Scotland.

Jackson Carlaw – interviewed on Good Morning Scotland on 24th Oct

Jackie Baillie – interviewed on Good Morning Scotland on 24th Oct

Nicola Sturgeon – interviewed on Good Morning Scotland on 25th Oct

Reporting Scotland coverage over two days – Note the opening remark about independence and the use of the word “admission” when referring to Nicola Sturgeon’s statement

 

[Notice – It may be of interest to site visitors, but in the week that it was reported Radio Scotland’s listener numbers had dropped 2.6% from the same period 12 months ago, Newsnet Scotland can announce that we will, for the first time ever, break 90,000 for unique visitors for a month.]

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Comments  

 
#
dadsarmy
2012-10-29 00:14

Mmm. After an extensive anti-Brown and anti-Labour media campaign in 2010, plus Tories spending twice as much as Labour, no seat in Scotland changed hands:

news.bbc.co.uk/…/7.stm

After an extensive anti-Salmond and anti-SNP media campaign prior to the 2011 Holyrood elections, the SNP gained 23 seats and a clear majority:

www.bbc.co.uk/…/scotland.stm

Please, keep it up BBC, and the appalling UK media – help us to duplicate the 1997 Devolution referendum with 74.6% voting YES. We’re relying on your bias to dis-mis-inform us.

We’re not as daft in Scotland as you are.
 
 
#
tartanfever
2012-10-29 09:22

I guarantee you the anti-SNP media will be like nothing you have seen before as we approach the referendum.

We would be utter fools if we didn’t try to do something about it, and on this latest battle we have been well and truly busted. The unionist camp has just attacked and now they’re waiting to see what we have in retaliation – and you know what we have ? – absolutely hee-haw.

Labour lies will continue with Jackie Baillie, and you know why ? – because no-one is there to stop her. The SNP can put out all the press releases they want, but if they aren’t being covered by the BBC or STV then it’s not going to have any effect.

We need a protest of 20,000 outside Pathetic Quay, we need to make some noise and be heard. I promise you if this doesn’t happen, it will be business as usual and by the end of the year it will be worse.

The power we have is to get off our lazy arses and march.
 
 
#
dadsarmy
2012-10-29 17:48

Yes, that’s a march I’d go for. It’s not just independence or Scotland, the BBC is biased to bad news about the economy, doom and gloom rather than green shoots. To my mind they’ve helped to hold the UK back for over a year.

But there is some good. Quite a few people I talk to think Salmond is smug, and it annoys them. Well, now they’ve seen he’s human like the rest of us, and the media was full of pictures with a face that was far from smug (carefully selected).

I don’t think he’s smug, I just think, like me, he can’t believe his luck. Work away for nearly 40 years – and the UK “gives” us a referendum on indy. And we control it. What an incredible achievement.
 

 
#
J Wil
2012-10-29 00:29

What was obvious yesterday on the Sunday Politics were subtle efforts to deflect criticism away from the BBC’s part in the Savile scandal.
 
 
#
Barontorc
2012-10-29 00:44

Another excellent dissection by NNS – I’ve posted this elsewhere but it should be on here:-

Debate the pros and cons of the Union? – Ok let’s do that. When do we start? We’ll be there with bells on. I trust the BBC will be well up for giving the Union case a really good airing. After all, they know the Union case is absolutely solid and completely unassailable. What a comfortable position to be in.

What’s that you say? – The BBC are ignoring this suggestion? Pray, tell why?
 
 
#
Edna Caine
2012-10-29 01:14

NNS –

Have you sent a copy of this article to “Lord” Patten, the Chairman of the “independent” BBC Trust?

Or do you think that he may be too busy failing to investigate the sordid truth that is emerging from the Savile scandal? Not that he ever knew JS or any of his chums, of course!
 
 
#
m4rkyboy
2012-10-29 01:26

Can i ask a bunch of questions that i am unsure of.
If Scotland votes yes,what are we considered and does this affect our membership of the EU?If we are a successor state do we inherit all the treaty obligations,a share of the debt and assets etc?If we are not does that make us a new state without any debt and we have to apply to join the EU?
Has the act of union 1707 been superceded by the union 1800?
If so does this mean that the UK is not an act of two signatories(Sco    tland+England) but an act of four signatories(Sco    tland+England+W  ales+NI)?
If so does this mean that the UK cant be broken and that the rUK would be the successor state?
Do new states have no debt?
Imagine that,out the EU with no debt 🙂
Or am i miles off?
 
 
#
Cruachan
2012-10-29 05:11

We’ll be a Scotland with an independent parliament, within the union of crowns but outwith the union of 1707 AND the revision of 1800. Only the union of 1603 shall remain (the original treaty between Scotland and England).

EU membership will be unaffected as the EU is a voluntary membership, the conditions for which Scotland already meets. The only change is that Holyrood becomes responsible for the political representation of Scotland.

Yes. We will be held to our standing EU and United Kingdom treaties and will pay our debts in the same manner that would would in any other circumstances (including status quo).

The UK will revert to its original Union of crowns. The UK of GB&I; will cease to exist (from a Scottish perspective), it may well continue from a Eng/Wal/N.I. perspective (not sure).

The rUK will be in the same boat as the newly independent Scotland… a successor state.
 
 
#
alasdairmac
2012-10-29 08:48

Sorry Cruachan. I’ve got to correct a serious factual error in your comment. There was no treaty of any kind in 1603. All that happened was that James VI of Scotland took on a second job as James I of England. There was absolutely nothing else to it; no unification of the crowns which remained completely separate and certainly no “United Kingdom” as both Kingdoms also remained resolutely separate and not always on the friendliest of terms with each other either.
 
 
#
m4rkyboy
2012-10-29 19:40

There was an article on FT.com ‘independent Scotland faces EU application’
It was quoting the Spansh foreign minster and it said that William Hague had provided him with the official Westminster policy on Scotlands status as a new state.It seems to be based upon the precedent set by Eire when it removed itself from the UK.
To me this is hugely important because it dispels any notion of this being a union of equals and comfirms what i have always suspected-that Scotland was subsumed into greater England-that England is the UK.
What concerns me most is the implications of the Westminster attempt to exclude Scotland from the EU and put a trade barrier up.This strikes me as being consistent historically.The Anglo-Irsh treaty,the subsequent trade war and the civil war.
If Scotland votes yes will we see rUK sovereign bases in Scotland?will the rUK start charging tariffs on Scottish imprts?I think the sitution has taken an ugly turn.
 
 
#
curley bill
2012-10-29 21:26

The ‘Devolution Matters’ blogger was on the radio yesterday with Derek Bateman and he said the perceived wisdom emanating from Brussels’ lawyers is that BOTH Scotland and England will be successor states.
 
 
#
m4rkyboy
2012-10-29 22:41

The two successor state argument is what i believe to be correct.It’s just that on another forum debate i am being opposed and refered to the case of Eire as being the model upon which Scotland would achieve independence.The FT.com article i mention above refers to ‘official’ Westminster policy as being consistent with the example of Eire and that the SNP are wrong to assume the dissolution of the ‘UK’ as a result of a yes vote.
Is this the internal politics that EU officials say need sorted first before they can comment on Scotland and the EU?
To me the UK is showing it’s real colours.If true,they are setting up a punishment for yes voters.They intend to ostracise and cripple us economically.
Is there any protection for small countries like ourselves from the likes of Spain and ‘UK’?I thought we fought wars to protect the rights of small nations yet here we have a situation where Scotland looks like its about to get hammered by two larger powers out of pure spite.
 

 
#
Siôn Jones
2012-10-29 13:11

Wales wasn’t included, as it had been subsumed and incorporated as a part of England – the reason we are not represented on the union flag. Yet we are still here, and our language is thriving!
 
 
#
Ped
2012-10-31 14:30

My own view on this 1707 stuff is that is that to any practical purposes, it is irrelevant to the modern world. The political world 1707 is not the political world of today and references to 1707 acts will matter not a jot to anyone. The fact is that the international community will recognise the rUK as the continuing state and probably, Scotland as a successor state. This is not actually a bad position to be in, so don’t start screaming foul. The purpose of Independence is to build a future for Scotland, this will have the begin with agreement between rUK and Scotland before anyone in the international community bothers to even look our way. Scotland’s future begins in 2014, not 1707.
 

 
#
jjmac
2012-10-29 03:23

All the Unionist parties and the media are really going into a frenzy to try and discredit our democratically elected First Minister.
The sheer extent of the bile and venom that is directed towards Mr Salmond is actually beginning to worry me a bit as i think back to the unfortunate and mysterious death of Willie MacCrae.
If any Unionist politician was subject to this sort of treatment there would be a national outcry.
 
 
#
colin8652
2012-10-29 05:59

bbc.co.uk/…/…

Teasing promises about possible jobs, bare faced lies of projected costs and headline status on the Scottish page, the BBC are at it again this morning.
 
 
#
Early Ball
2012-10-29 06:30

Well that article sums it up. Nothing about the Baillie lies that even STV featured yesterday.
Nothing at all on the BBC site yesterday.

The BBC don’t care any more so they must have been given carte blanche to go for Salmond and ignore any case for independence.

If anyone gets on Call Kaye ask them about the Baillie lies not being covered.
 
 
#
Massacre1965
2012-10-29 07:38

Just listened to a completely pointless ‘news’ item on GMS. Tory councillor from Corby wants the many Scots who live in Corby to be able to vote in referendum. The utter drivel this man spouted went completely unchallenged. I recently renewed my license having refused to pay for nearly 2 years – i should have stuck it out and ignored the threatening letters. I will never pay the license fee again.
 

 
#
mountaincadre
2012-10-29 06:53

I am sure we all knew that the day would come when the phoney war would end and the real fight would begin, i would say that now it has begun. This is a fight for the very essence of our country and for the future we wish to see for ourselves and children, make no mistake friends they will use all and any means to subvert the aspirations of Scotland and its people as they have always done but i also believe that there own negativity will lead to there own downfall, there will come a time in the next 2 years when even those who have went along with this till now will realise that there future’s do not lie with contenued rule from West minster.
 
 
#
Macart
2012-10-29 07:04

The past week has seen the most relentless character assault I have ever seen in the Scottish political arena. The BBC and mainstream press have deliberately colluded with their union political counterparts in willfully setting out to destroy the name and character of Scotland’s First Minister. This goes beyond outrage and indignation. This on its own, is a reason to support independence. That our media in all its forms has been so influenced by Westminster political interference, goes to the very heart of any debate.

Surely this in itself is a clue to any sane member of the general public? What has happened in the past week was nothing short of a witch hunt and let no one be in any doubt, it will continue. There is a way to put an end to it however.

VOTE YES in 2014
 
 
#
clootie
2012-10-29 07:21

Macart

Fully align with that …..put an end to it forever

Great job Newsnet 90k unique hits. The media lies only worked in the past by controlling information.
 
 
#
Macart
2012-10-29 07:56

Cracking news for NNS and well done the team.

The impression I got from last week was quite literally distraction from the results of the consultation at any cost. Their method of doing this went beyond low. It wasn’t just misrepresentati  on of the evidence, it was in itself outright lies. £100K in expenditure???? Even when the FM came out and stated the SGs actual expenditure of £4K on Scotland tonight outrageous figures were still being bandied about the next day.

I’ve binned my last subscription to daily newspapers and coming from me and my posting history on support for print production staff, that should tell you something clootie. I’m done supporting an industry which hasn’t just become corrupted by Westminster politics, but is now actively becoming a wing of Westminster government in itself.
 
 
#
clootie
2012-10-29 09:14

Macart

As we have discussed before it is a great pity all those decent people in the newspapers are having their jobs put at risk by those controlling the direction of coverage. I am willing to bet that the Herald and Scotsman would see a dramitic change in their fortune if they returned to balanced journalism.
Newspaper decline is a function of changes in how we access information but the blatant bias has accelerated the decline and it will cost people their jobs.
 
 
#
Macart
2012-10-29 09:34

You have the situation down to a tee clootie. The industry still has a good ten possibly twenty years left in it. As we are well aware news is fast becoming more digitally accessible by the day with office production and editorial shifting to an online readership.

I have a number of friends and colleagues still working in production in the big plants and it is pretty sickening to see what heartless and self serving publishers are doing to staff who have served loyally for many years. This decline could have been managed and extended simply by producing papers which presented balanced journalism. We’re not asking for bias the other way, merely balance, a fair shout.
 
 
#
denmylne
2012-10-29 17:58

i think the problem is that those who own the scottish titles have decided that their extinction is a price worth paying to save the union. indeed, they probably think it is a prerequisite to avoid this situation arising again

if we vote no, this attack on all scottish institutions will intensify

i think the demo against the bbc on pathetic quay is the only way to stop this
 
 
#
Macart
2012-10-29 20:22

The way the Savile investigation is heating up we not need to lift a finger. I think that by the time it concludes the BBCs remaining reputation will be in complete tatters.
 

 
#
From The Suburbs
2012-10-29 07:35

And on BBC Radio Scotland GMS at 7.24 juat heard this morning’s Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the Bitter Together campaign by a Conservative Councillor from Corby with no comment from a pro independence supporter.

Problem is that other than isolated individual complaints what can be done about it?

Letter to Newspapers will not be printed but an article from well known commentator might help.
 
 
#
Massacre1965
2012-10-29 12:39

Commented on this earlier – a pointless interview with some plain daft unchallenged comments by a tory coonsilor in England. Radio was just about lobbed oot the windae (again!!)
 

 
#
J Wil
2012-10-29 07:40

There is a debate going on now about BBC interviewers like Andrew Neil and Andrew Marr who continually interupt the politicians they are interviewing.

For some time I have been annoyed at this tactic because the interviews seem mainly to be about the personal dialogue between the interviewer, who has immediate background knowledge about the subject, having had time to study the issues, and the interviewee. It’s not about trying to inform the viewer, who is merely secondary to the process.

Great gaps are generated in the flow of what should be a clear and concise disclosure of the facts for the benefit of the viewer, not about trying to show how clever the interviewer is.
 
 
#
Peter A Bell
2012-10-29 07:58

Those who insist that Salmond lied are asking us to believe –

(a) That, despite all evidence to the contrary, Salmond so is incredibly stupid as to tell a flimsy, pointless untruth on TV.
(b) That, despite having adhered strictly to the ministerial code and repeatedly citing it as the reason he could reveal nothing about legal advice, Salmond casually breached the code in the course of an interview with the arch-unionist, Andrew Neil.
(c) That, Salmond having thus breached the ministerial code, Andrew Neil didn’t even notice the gaffe. And neither did anybody else for more than six months.
 
 
#
bodun
2012-10-29 18:41

No, we’re asking you to believe that Scotland, post independence, would be more susceptible to zombie attacks:

bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/…/…
 

 
#
shawfield urchin
2012-10-29 07:59

A curious interview on the BBC GMS this morning with a Tory councillor from Corby in England.

This guy is demanding a referendum vote for people in his town because some of them apparently feel proud to be British as well as Scottish.

No voice was heard from anyone who did not support this proposal and the impression was allowed to stand that this guy had a valid case.

NO he doesn’t and this insidious drip drip of BBC unionist propaganda should not be allowed to go unchallenged.

A bit like the Hootsmon who appear to have now removed all comment facilities on their blatant daily anti-SNP diatribes.
 
 
#
connect2
2012-10-29 08:08

What you need to do is associate the BBC output with the Savile affair.
The BBC cannot be trusted.
BBC Scotland cannot be trusted.
The BBC harboured an abuser for decades, would you believe what they tell us?
Get this on social media and start hitting back.
 
 
#
Ready to Start
2012-10-29 08:32

Also we had Richard Hammond telling us repeatedly that thousands of new jobs would be created at Faslane on GMS although gently questioned on the actual current figures no sharp interviewer at BBC thought of asking him where he thought all these alleged extra workers would be housed and who would pay for that?
 
 
#
J Wil
2012-10-29 08:54

To get some idea of the scale of things, we have just been told on the national news that if the intended 3p per litre rise in petrol goes ahead in January it will cost 35000 jobs. Pro rata that’s 3500 in Scotland. Not much fuss is being made of this.
 
 
#
bipod
2012-10-29 09:11

The idea that trident is all about job creation is completely outrageous. If the UK gov were to use all of the money they spend on trident, on something else, thousand upon thousands of more jobs could be created.
 

 
#
Leswil
2012-10-29 08:36

I am an avid watcher of political programs and I am absolutely ASHAMED of the BBC and the “Scottish” newspaper media.

President Putin would give them a handclap.

This is a shameful personal attack on A.Salmond, but it is also on our freely elected government.

Which in turn reflects on the wishes of the People of Scotland.

I think it is high time that the law officers of Scotland start to speak out about all this and speak loud.

Perhaps, unlike the rest of us, they could make headlines that cannot be so easily ignored.

So come on legal eagles and get in and support your nation, who is suffering once more at the hands of the Unionist hordes.
 
 
#
Sannymac
2012-10-29 08:42

A simple question! Why can the SNP or another Scottish organisation sue the BBC and/or the newspapers for Slander or Libel against Salmond, the SNP or the Scottish public?
Whether the action would win or lose is of little consequence, it would bring the attack and bias of the BBC and the newspapers to the notice of the Scottish public.
 
 
#
Old Smokey
2012-10-29 08:52

BBC keeping up the propoganda war, by having a mismatched pair with someone from CND discuss at same time as some idiot unionist councillor from Argyle and Bute, who kept up the myth of employing 13000 if Trident stayed, ignoring the fact that only 500 off were only local
 
 
#
farrochie
2012-10-29 09:00

NNS Team, congratulations on the 90,000, which beats the daily circulation of a number of Scottish Newspapers.

It is up to each of us to distrubute the link to some more friends and colleagues, and ask them to forward it here and abroad. Let’s push NNS circulation through the 100,000.
 
 
#
gus1940
2012-10-29 18:08

About 18 months ago I bought a Newsnet Car Sticker from the web site and it has been on my tailgate ever since right in the face of very driver sitting behind me at lights.

Surely in that time it must have aroused the curiosity of a few people enough to make them have a look at the site and perhaps become regular readers and contributors.

However, since I purchased the sticker I have seen no sign of its continuing availablity.

Surely it must be worthwhile reintroducing such a product as I am sure plenty of our regulars would purchase and display one on their cars.

Not only would this raise money for the site but it would be a great help in getting the truth across to the electorate and combat the daily propaganda deluge from The BBC and MSM.
 

 
#
art1001
2012-10-29 09:23

Just seen a report on Sky about the vicious, unrelenting attacks on the character of President Obama by the Romney Campaign and the right wing press. It is now clear where they are getting their inspiration for their attacks on Alex Salmond from.

In our case we have a state-sponsored, psy-op warfare strategy with truth being an ignored and irrelevant. It is totally one-sided and actually worse than anything Obama has to face.

Well done on the 90,000. You are on the way to becoming a bigger internet presence that the likes of Scotsman and Herald. I wonder what their figures are.
 
 
#
Barontorc
2012-10-29 09:30

I am really becoming convinced the Tory government has cut Scotland out of its future plans.

Each and every move by them seems to be set to antagonise Scotland; Hammond’s dictat on Trident today being but the latest of them. Bringing 8000 jobs by the end of the decade(2020), with two elections intervening in 2015 and 2016, considered as having no effect of Scottish democratic will indeed – pompous ass he is.

This tory strategy will remove Scotland’s feeble fifty Labour placemats from Wastemonster and consign Labour to being permanent opposition.

It will also effectively kill socialist pretences stone dead in the UK.Not that it will be noticed, since Labour has long since abandoned any socialist principles making its pact with the god of mammon, ermin and troughing.
 
 
#
J Wil
2012-10-29 09:34

Message for the editor:

There is a problem with the piece entitled, ‘Labour now refusing to accept FM investigation’. I cannot see any comments or comments box.

So herewith my comments:

It’s not surprising that Labour want to do this because it seems obvious that they know he will be cleared as he did not break any rules and that will put a stop to their politicking over the matter.
 
 
#
Mei
2012-10-29 10:02

The BBC are obviously in breach of the BBC Charter and it is surely time to take concerted legal action against them.
 
 
#
colin8652
2012-10-29 10:10

Felt for a long time that it may be competent (for someone with money) to take out an interim interdict to stop them broadcasting refurendum related stories until they can show that they are being fair and neutral. (as if) as they are clearly in breach of their own charter.
 
 
#
Barontorc
2012-10-29 10:29

Who has said it takes money to take on an anti-democratic organisation which is meant to be the sole UK public broadcasting service framed and governed by its own Charter?

If legal minds are put to this, citizens advice? -it will probably throw up means of complaint and control by world bodies.

Try some lateral thinking.
 
 
#
Mei
2012-10-29 14:42

I’ll throw in a couple of thousand if somebody gets it going.
 

 
#
Jim Johnston
2012-10-29 10:26

Thank you NewsNetScotland for a brilliant report and analysis.
I think this used to be called “investigative journalism” before it was decapitated by the BBC and MSM.

It won’t stop their propaganda but it’s nice to see the Hearld and Scotsman being savaged this morning in their own comments section on propaganda articles.

Personally I could care less what the BBC and MSM opinions are on any subject from the weather to setting the world to rights.

What is extremely important is the opinion of real Scots people who now have the power to decide on Scotlands Independence.

That is the terrifying nightmare that Westminster, BBC and MSM have to deal with when they clearly don’t have a cloth to cover their modesty.

Thanks again NNS.
 
 
#
colin8652
2012-10-29 10:29

bbc.co.uk/…/…

Could this be the biggest ministerial mistake to date on the issue of independence. Such arrogance will not go down well with Scottish voters.
 
 
#
Breeks
2012-10-29 10:46

Well if it isn’t untrue, it’s a gross dereliction of his responsibility.

I rather suspect thirty years from now we’ll be reading the truth, once it’s declassified, just as we’ll be reading 2012 equivalent of the 1975 McCrone report and what happens when the UK government loses control of Scotland’s oil revenues.
 
 
#
dadsarmy
2012-10-29 18:24

I agree, I think he’s made a mistake, but not only in Scotland. If I was an rUK person, fond of my nukes, I’d be very worried about a defence minister that totally ignored a firm promise to get rid of them from Scotland in the event of a YES vote which, even if you believe the polls, has a 1 in 3 or 4 chance of happening soon.

And since (this is pretending to be rUK), clearly Scotland has an appetite for independence so it WILL happen, and my defence minister is stranding my nukes in Scotland?

As an rUK citizen, I’d be saying “get them out, Phillip, or get out yourself”.
 
 
#
scottish_skier
2012-10-29 18:42

The Tories are trying to help the SNP after the latter had a bit of a tough week over imaginaryEUgate  .

When it looks like the no camp might be doing some damage to yes, the London Tories start mouthing off about Scotland and send someone north to help the yes camp.

The latest intervention is sublime.
 

 
#
ubinworryinmasheep
2012-10-29 10:36

On Call Kaye this morning talking about compulsory organ donation she read out some of the listeners comments. Most agreeing with this proposal but one just had to have a go at the SNP government…’With the Scottish Goverments attacks on the NHS there will be plenty of organs ‘ or something along that lines. Now anyone who doesn’t know much about the Scottish NHS and how its protected against cuts (unlike England under the Tories) would think the SNP are bad. I do wonder if this was from a Labour activist or just Radio Scotland making it up but its little things like this that chip away.
 
 
#
proudscot
2012-10-29 11:43

Quoting ubinworryinmash  eep:

On Call Kaye this morning talking about compulsory organ donation she read out some of the listeners comments. Most agreeing with this proposal but one just had to have a go at the SNP government…’With the Scottish Goverments attacks on the NHS there will be plenty of organs ‘ or something along that lines. Now anyone who doesn’t know much about the Scottish NHS and how its protected against cuts (unlike England under the Tories) would think the SNP are bad. I do wonder if this was from a Labour activist or just Radio Scotland making it up but its little things like this that chip away.



I noticed this little piece of unsubtle anti-SNP propaganda being slipped in by Ms Adams. I too wondered at the time if this was a genuine comment e-mailed in by a unionist ignorant of the fact that our Scottish NHS is independent and thus protected from the privatisation occurring down south. However, it obviously suited Ms Adams’ anti-SNP agenda.

 
 
#
Jo Bloggs
2012-10-29 13:56

My personal experience with the Scottish NHS is that it has improved dramatically in recent years. I would contrast the pre-SNP NHS with the pesent service. In 2000 (as far as i can recall9 my young daughter cut her head quite badly on a holiday at her granny’s in scotland. My mum’s next-door neighbour was a nurse, who patched the wee girl up herself, so as to save us “the horrors of our health service” as she said.

In the last couple of years, on visits to Scotland, my wife (last year) and my 9-year-old sone (this year) were taken ill. Through NHS24 they were both seen immediately by a doctor and given a presecription that did the job quickly and efficiently. and all for no charge whatsoever. This experience is way above what we could expect ‘at home’ in Finland.

What a difference it makes to have an SNP government in Scotland. I’m sure I cannot be alone in this sort of experience.
 

 
#
RTP
2012-10-29 10:54

Aberdeen bypass cost rises to £653mContinue reading the main story
Related Stories
‘Steps taken’ to deliver bypass
Aberdeen bypass appeal rejected
Bypass appeal could go to Europe

The cost of the Aberdeen bypass has risen to an estimated £653m, it has been revealed.

I suppose the SNP will get the blame for this we also have Alexander attacking the SNP over the A9 getting dual-ed,the hypocrisy of the Libs is breath taking.
 
 
#
Ron Maclean
2012-10-29 11:25

An excellent summary of what’s been going on – thank you. But what can be done about it? Isolated protests won’t have much effect. The damage is being done to the SNP and our First Minister. I keep hoping for some signs of leadership. There’s still two years to go but we won’t win if we allow things to continue as they are.
 
 
#
Dundonian West
2012-10-29 11:32

Lord Patten and his Trust allegedly are supposed to be the watchdog ON the BBC on behalf of the viewers and listeners!
Honest,I kid you not!
Whenever he refers to the viewers and listeners he says “they”.
Whenever he refers to the BBC he says “we”.
All is not well on the Good Ship Lollipop viz—The Trust and it’s BBC partner.Far too cosy relationship.
It smells somewhat of another Establishment quango,jobs for the boys.

Remember Patten’s day trip to Scotland,earlie  r in the year, when BBC Scotland was one of the items on the agenda of discussions?
Whatever came of that?
I do know Patten said the issues would be dealt with through the normal channels.
These are NOT normal times,Scotland is about to go through fundamental change,and Patten speaks of “normal channels”!
British Broadcasting Corporation and it’s “independent” Trust can take a running jump. NEITHER CAN BE TRUSTED. FULL STOP.
 
 
#
Big Eye
2012-10-29 12:12

I would suggest Newsnet wait for Mr Salmond to be cleared of any wrongdoing, this will be for the sixth time, then send to the BBC this article and recordings and ask them to explain how they got it so WRONG!
 
 
#
Ysabelle
2012-10-29 12:18

Interesting poll on how the Savile scandal has affected the BBC in the eyes of the public. According to this poll, 7 in 10 Brits think the BBC covered up allegations of sexual abuse. About a third say their trust has decreased, while 41% say they still trust the BBC. Given some other allegations about the corporation – Andrew O’Hagan’s recent article at the London Review of Books is well worth a read – there could be more to come.

blottr.com/…/…
 
 
#
Bill C
2012-10-29 13:15

Congratulations NNS on a brilliant expose of anti-independence bias from the BBC. It is a fine example of investigative journalism. However, my thought is what to do with it. My own belief is that such a fine piece of work should not be just for the eyes of NNS readers. I am inclined to agree with Blind Eye and suggest that it should be left until AS is cleared and then sent to the BBC. On the other hand, I believe it is such an important piece of work in the independence struggle, that it might be better if it could be released for public consumption as soon as possible. I do not know how that could be achieved, but what I do know is that it is extemely important to our cause to expose the daily bias of the BBC. It would be be very unfortunate if such a fine piece of work did not reach the public at large.
Thank you once again for the fine work the NNS team does on behalf of our country’s journey towards self determination.
 
 
#
Siôn Jones
2012-10-29 13:53

I am not normally one to fall for conspiracy theories, but starting with the well coordinated pincer movement of lies, deception and name calling from thee terrible twins, ruthie and jummie, on FMQs, the continued onslaught on Salmond from all quarters for a very trivial issue has all the hallmarks of an establishment coordinated campaign, crossing all unionist parties and media outlets. Very sinister.
 
 
#
1scot
2012-10-29 14:04

I happened to mention on Twitter that Kaye Adams was a unionist and an anti SNP person.
I received quite a number of threats and angry responses. After she retweeted my comment to her timeline.
I will never pay a penny to the bbc ever again.
 
 
#
Barontorc
2012-10-29 14:56

Why anyone continues to give their money to a totally corrupt organisation is one of the great mysteries of the Scottish psyche.

Conditioned by years of put-downs and less than subtle, establishment induced sublimation, the Scots are actually unsure whether to keep on taking their soporific, or to take a deep breath of fresh air and walk away to a much happier future.

Why, in other words is there any reason for paying for something that offends you and much more importantly why pay for something which is intended to offend you by misinforming, by base manipulative malpractice and riven with downright falsehoods.

Uncertainty, affirmation. Uncertainty, affirmation! Remember, Flubbers mantra?
 

 
#
cuckooshoe
2012-10-29 15:31

”Newsnet Scotland can announce that we will, for the first time ever, break 90,000 for unique visitors for a month.”

Congratulations it’s my favourite source for news..
 
 
#
doctor_zaius
2012-10-29 16:05

O/T – look what content-free nonsense Better Together are putting out tomorrow. Same-old same-old and no real arguments.

www.youtube.com/…/
 
 
#
Independista
2012-10-29 16:14

I sent a reference to this article to Media Lens, a web site I regularly log on to. www.medialens.org/
Ill keep you posted to see if they pick up on it.
Ive also posted it off to Craig Murray.
 
 
#
Martyn
2012-10-29 16:41

Guys what can be done about the continuing biased against the indy movement? Isnt about time that someone in power (AS or SNP) did something.

To the casual observer of newspapers and headline readers this is going o be a disaster.
 
 
#
Training Day
2012-10-29 17:19

The BBC will reap a grim harvest for their flagrant abandonment of impartiality, irresepctive of the outcome of the 2014 vote. If there’s a Yes vote, a top priority must be to dismantle this state broadcaster. It has no place in a democracy.

If a No vote, the BBC will be seen to have been a prime contributor to that vote, and will need to deal with the indignation of independence supporters.

Either way, it is not fit for purpose, now or in the future.
 
 
#
mudfries
2012-10-29 17:23

Does anyone know when the next demo against the BBC at unionist headquarters – pacific quay is? we’ve all got to make a real effort and go, I missed the last one but I wont the next time, they are an organisation that would put Joseph Goebbals to shame with their antics, Goebbals would never have been able to pull off what the BBC have, and keep a paedophile ring secret for decades at the same time!!!!
 
 
#
From The Suburbs
2012-10-29 18:28

BBC TV six o clock man news covered Faslane and Nicola got to speak.

Needless to say BBC then spoil it when Lorna Gordon fails to point out that several members of NATO do not back or host nuclear weapons.
 
 
#
dadsarmy
2012-10-29 18:56

Hammond says it is irresponsible for the SNP to play games with a strategic deterrent like the UK nuclear deterrent.

But the SNP isn’t, it’s Hammond playing silly games. The SNP has announced policy, in the same way the LibDems in the ooalition does. And the SNP want out of the UK, so – how can they play games with the UK deterrent?

This is clearly UK madness not Scottish, and I don’ think it’ll be long before the rest of the UK recognise this. Their defence minister might be daft, but they’re not.
 
 
#
bringiton
2012-10-29 19:29

I believe that of the 28 NATO countries only three have nuclear weapons:
USA
France
Englandshire (UK)
So not having these weapons is the normal state for the vast majority of NATO countries.
England should welcome the opportunity that Scottish independence will give them to rid themselves of the last trappings of empire and a considerable drain on their public purse.
 
 
#
Piemonteis
2012-10-29 20:38

It is also the case, however, that these 28 countries have never had nuclear weapons. I see the SNP as somewhat inconsistent, given its EU stance. How can it be confident that we’d remain in the EU because we’re already part of it as things stand, and then claim we could reach an agreement with Nato on how we could stay within the organization but disarm the weapons on Scottish soil? Surely it’s a) as things stand in both cases, or b) renegotiations in both cases.

I think the UK’s nuclear weapons are too valuable to the USA to let us get rid of them, particularly with France’s government being very distant on many issues to the US government (blue or red). It is entirely likely that Washington and Nato will give us a take it or leave it offer with two options: in with nuclear weapons, or out.
 

 
#
James01
2012-10-29 20:08

Of course she didn’t, that would make her report more balanced, instead she mentioned “jobs” and “SNP hypocrisy”, because that fits in to their Unionist agenda. BTW I think only 3 out of the 28 NATO countries have nuclear weapons on their soil.
 

 
#
LeicsJon
2012-10-29 19:08

Is this how it’s going to be then for two years? A constant barrage of bullying, castigation, vilification, insults and personal attacks against one man with absolutely no opportunity for redress? Is what we can look forward to right through 2013 and into 2014 and the run up to the most important decision for Scots in 300 years. Unfortunately, I don’t live in Scotland but it worries me greatly that by referendum time, the electorate will be so brainwashed or bored by the whole thing that they’ll not even bother to vote in large numbers. Surely, this endless campaign of vitriol throwing will eventually wear AS and the SNP down. They don’t seem to be worried which is in itself worrying. Why does Nicola Sturgeon keep allowing herself to feature in one sided interviews and ‘debates’. Someone please tell me that the Scots are not so easily fooled.
 
 
#
Bob Kingdom of Fife
2012-10-29 19:10

last week i received a ‘ bitter to-gether ‘ leaflet supporting ‘ our bbc ‘ on the same day as the saville paedophile disclosures were made public , that leaflet from them will have gone down like a lead balloon in many a household here in Scotland.
 
 
#
mesmiths
2012-10-29 19:23

Well done NNS- again
 
 
#
westender
2012-10-29 20:06

I attended the Edinburgh rally and ended up standing next to the Newsnet table.I noticed that there was a pile of promotional leaflets with Newsnet’s October news.When I returned home I e-mailed Newsnet requesting that they tell me where I could obtain the leaflets.Newsnet replied that general distribution of leaflets were not part of their current plans.As this article illustrates last week we saw an unprecedented onslaught on AS, We must try everything to increase the awareness of Newsnet and in my opinion this includes giving activists the opportunity to purchase Newsnet leaflets,Finall  y please do’nt post the defeatist mantra ‘People put leaflets straight into their bins’.
 
 
#
sneckedagain
2012-10-29 20:32

I’m all for a demonstration against the BBC – but not in Glasgow. The next demonstration should be at BBC HQ in London and outside the Houses of Parliament. Nobody gives a toss if you demonstrate outside the branch office. As a veteran of the Gartcosh demonstration in London I could safely say that an anti BBC demonstration outside the BBC in London would throw a world wide spotlight on the BBC.
But we would need at least a thousand at it
 
 
#
Bill C
2012-10-29 21:20

Spot on sneck, count me in. Anybody else fancy a trip to the ‘Mother of Parliaments’ and the Corporation of Corruption?
 

 
#
haggishunter72
2012-10-29 21:38

On the subject of the EU found this on the Gibraltar Chonicle website
www.chronicle.gi/…/

Makes you ask why they are making such a big deal about Scotland’s membership status!
 
 
#
Didnaeken
2012-10-29 22:03

This should be interesting.

Debate on the Referendum a television special on 5th November BBC, Motherwell. Seeking a balanced audience.

bbc.co.uk/…/…
 
 
#
From The Suburbs
2012-10-29 22:54

Bizare statement on STV Scotland To-night by defence expert who claimed that it was highly unlikely that the SNP would be doing the negotiating if Scotland votes Yes in 2014.

Who does he think will be in government in 2014? He ventured a Labour / Lib Dem coalition.
 
 
#
Canmore
2012-10-29 23:32

Quoting From The Suburbs:

Bizare statement on STV Scotland To-night by defence expert



Both of these so called experts one American and one English did not seem to get it that the UK will not exist once Scotland leaves the union. It was just more made up figures and facts about Trident and EU membership. There was no-one on the program to query anything they two claimed. The part after about the alcohol abuse in Scotland was another example of media bias. Wee Rona tried as hard as she could to blame the SNP even when her other guest praised what the SNP have done to combat alcohol abuse.

Newsnight was classic anti-Scottish, anti-SNP drivel once again. The SNP MSP gave a great account of himself over Trident to the presenters obvious disgust. The second part was more ridiculous nonsense about uncertainty in the referendum. Negative as usual.

State sponsored unionist propaganda is here and its getting worse.

 

 
#
cirsium
2012-10-29 22:58

“With the smoke clearing and the verbal shrapnel having settled, we can now see clearly the damage that has been inflicted. Mr Salmond’s reputation has taken a hit, no question.”

You cannot be serious! The smoke has cleared and what is visible is the damage done to democracy, not Mr Salmond’s reputation. As Sion Jones notes above, it has all the hallmarks of a coordinated establishment campaign.
 
 
#
jinglyjangly
2012-10-29 23:38

count me in for the demo maybe its time
we started a can pay but wont pay campaign regarding the licence fee.
 
 
#
Embra
2012-10-30 00:21

Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I felt annoyed at STV Scotland Tonight and a certain Dr. Phillips O’Brien, who has been trotted out by everyman and his dog, to slate an independent Scotland.

I have done some digging and come up with a case against this politico covering as an ‘expert’.

Part 1:

On STV Scotland Tonight tonight Dr Philips O’brien of the Scottish Centre for War Studies at Glasgow University was rolled out to tell us all how bad Scotland is and how good Britain is.
 
 
#
tartanpigsy
2012-10-30 00:35

‘Can pay wont pay’ needs to be part of a campaign, BUT more important is to alert the “ahm no bothered’s” of our fine land, of which I fear there are quite a few.
It is them who are more likely to be influenced in how they think (and eventually vote) by the constant double speak and lies coming from our media.

With this in mind I give you the date of November 15th for a protest at Pacific Quay time tbc but more than likely 4pm-7pm, the time covering the main news output from both radio and TV, this event will not be solely about standing in the cold, the hope is that groups can move off to various retail areas of the city to distribute leaflets and engage the public from around 5.30pm.

The demo will be held under the name of “Campaign for Balanced Broadcasting in Scotland.” Ceebeebies for short.

Contact details and more information will be posted here in the next few days.

As was said before “bring it on”
 
 
#
Embra
2012-10-30 00:49

Pt 2:

O’Brien has said on many occassions stated publicly that Trident could not be moved for 15-20 yrs. On the link below from 28/10/12,you will see him backing up this BBC Scotland report, straying off topic to have a dig at the SNP by offering advice to the UK government.

bbc.co.uk/…/…

3m35s into this pravda like bulletin, O’Brien states that the UK could say to Scotland:
“If you don’t keep Trident until we are ready to rebase it in the UK, we can deny you successor state status…” — referring to the EU. Good politico advice from a defence ‘expert’!
Going further he says at 3m49s: “Scotland cannot dictate on this,Trident,or any other issue.”
 
 
#
dadsarmy
2012-10-30 01:00

Personally I look at it this way. There’s no point answering all the questions until people are actually showing an interest and asking them. Up till now independence has almost been a taboo subject with many people, as though if they mention the word people will think they / we’re some kind of wackos.

All this publicity is making independence kind of sexy, and as they say in show business “there’s no such thing as bad publicity.

Two years from now people will have all the answers they need to make their decisions. And they’ll have seen the three or so debates. Who will win those debates? A positive vision for Scotland or uninformed illiterate scaremongering?
 
 
#
Embra
2012-10-30 01:08

Pt 3:
The BBC were quite right to expect O’Brien to back up these claims as he was a witness only weeks ago (12/09/12)to the Scottish Affairs Committee report on “The Referendum on Separation for Scotland”.
publications.parliament.uk/…/…
which concluded:
“We recognise that such speedy action would inevitably create the prospect of unilateral nuclear disarmament being imposed upon the Royal Navy and UK, since the construction of facilities elsewhere could take upwards of 20 years.”
Different story tonight when faced with a real expert (Francis Tusa is a defence
journalist of over 20 years’ experience)
Tonight on “STV Tonight” he readily agreed (with the real expert) who clearly knew what he was talking about. Either that or he would have looked foolish because the ‘real’ defence expert stated that the 15-20 years timescale for Trident removal was “propoganda” and Devonport currently has spare berths.
 
 
#
dadsarmy
2012-10-30 04:18

(Uk Parl SAC Terminating Trident—Days or
Decades?). Serious logic flaws in that report.

1). It seems to work almost from the point of view that relocating Trident is Scotland’s problem; it isn’t, it’s the UK/rUK’s problem. If Scotland doesn’t want it, it goes. If we in Scotland are prepared to come and go a bit to help out, that’s us doing the rUK a favour, not vice versa.

2). Cost of relocating and a new base is part of the negotiations? No. Here you are rUK, here’s Trident and Vanguard, do with it what you will. Scrap it or build a new base, your country, your decision, your base, your cost in full.

I’m seemingly one of few in favour of the nuclear deterrent, so perhaps that makes my conclusion stronger:

If the rUK doesn’t have a firm and fast plan in place to start implementing immediately after a YES vote in 2014, then they have a maximum of 2 years to take it away and do whatever they want with it.
 

 
#
Embra
2012-10-30 01:24

Pt 4:

Phillips, when faced with real facts, agreed:”The notion that it would take 10,15,20 years is wrong, it could be done in a much shorter time…”.

Totally contradicting everything he has said before.

This guy has always proven to be highly political when he is meant to be discussing defence matters, on which he has now been shown (by me) to be either dishonest, or an idiot.

Using people like this as ‘experts’ when they are clearly partisan and distort fiction as fact, is a dispicable tactic. As these people are deemed to be impartial, then there is no representation of other political views.
This becomes harder to bear when he is now proven to be at the very least directly contradicting himself.

He should now be challenged on why he gave different answers to everyone who would listen, until tonight when a real expert pulled him up and embarrassed him.
 
 
#
Early Ball
2012-10-30 06:40

Excellent input Embra.

These “expert witnesses” should be challenged. John Curtice on again playing down the fact Scots are against WMD.
You can just imagine the conversation with the Newsnight producers. “What’s the polling like on Trident?” “Scots are against” “By much?” “Not that much” “Come on and play it down?” “See you there”
 

 
#
graememcallan
2012-10-30 01:39

As newspaper circulation is falling, I think the Scottish editions are deliberately being run into the ground, that way the don’t have to pretend to do fair and balanced reporting.

OT, on the our-scotland.org site there was an idea about removing or de-fusing Trident within 3 months, which is a brilliant idea;-)))
 
 
#
Deewal
2012-10-30 03:43

The UK does not have an Independent Nuclear Deterrent.1)
Our outsourced arsenal
Labour’s 2005 election manifesto stated: “We are also committed to retaining the independent nuclear deterrent.” But can this system be called independent when so much of it is, as modern business-speak would have it, sourced in America? The deterrent is carried in four Vanguard-class submarines that were designed and built in Britain, incorporating US components and reactor technology. ]
 
 
#
Deewal
2012-10-30 04:05

2)The deterrent is carried in four Vanguard-class submarines that were designed and built in Britain, incorporating US components and reactor technology.
 
 
#
tartanpigsy
2012-10-30 09:10

New Demo Date anounced !! 15th November, Pacific Quay, 4pm (Newsdrive time 😉 )
www.facebook.com/…/

a twitter account will be added later today
 
 
#
Clydebuilt
2012-10-30 13:47

tartanpigsy I’ll be there, but why hold a demo at Pacific Quay? It won’t even be seen by a handful of tourists from the open top busses in November.

Like the previous demos we wont get a mention in the press. Actually there was one mention of the demo it was that BBC hacks had been given dummy P45’s , they had used the Demo against us. Equating it with Ian Davidson’s accusation of Bias against Newsnight (he called it NewsNat)

What does it matter if a handful of BBC hacks realise not everyone likes them.

Instead of a demo it should be an Educate the public movement were creating.
 
 
#
Barontorc
2012-10-30 16:24

Your right Clydebuilt – have the demo in the center of Glasgow – take over Buchanan St and move on to George Square. Or, at the very least take the demo to outside the STV building – don’t go near Pathetic Quay – show them the contempt they show us.
 
 
#
tartanpigsy
2012-10-30 17:52

Clydebuilt-

“Instead of a demo it should be an Educate the public movement were creating.”

Agree with your sentiment entirely, this was one of the reasons why we didn’t go any further with the demos before.

This demo is intended to be the platform for exactly what you’re asking.

We are hoping to have enough leaflets ready to distribute to all at the demo to be able to go out in groups in their own home towns and challenge/educate the public on their perceptions of the media coverage. This is why the whole “bias” perspective is being dropped.

We might know that there is dreadful bias occurring on an almost daily basis, the majority of the public are not.

We might know that there is only one positive vision/ future for Scotland, most of the public do not.

Time for action !!

And Barontorc, part of this Demo will involve Buchanan Street, George Square etc
 
 
#
Clydebuilt
2012-10-30 22:24

tartanpigsy

Sounds good.

15th November, Pacific Quay, 4pm (Newsdrive time 😉 )

You’d get a better turn out on a Saturday.
 
 
#
gerrydotp
2012-11-01 21:09

So lets have a fixed date for the distribution of leaflets in the home towns. That way we get two lots of publicity. 1 The main Glasgow demo. 2. The hometown education events.
gerry p
 

 
#
Mei
2012-10-30 14:48

Morale among BBC Scotland staff at ‘all-time low’, unions tell MSPs

bbc.co.uk/…/…
 
 
#
mountaincadre
2012-10-30 22:34

Quoting Mei:

Morale among BBC Scotland staff at ‘all-time low’, unions tell MSPs

bbc.co.uk/…/…


You reep what you sow.

 

 
#
sneckedagain
2012-10-30 21:57

O/T

The only newspapers giving a semblance of balanced coverage of the SNP and the independence debate are the Sunday Herald and – wait for it – the Daily Record, though the Sun is in and out as well. And STV is well ahead of BBC as well
 

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