Friday, 27 July 2012 07:38
Two Scottish members of the women’s team GB football team have caused controversy after deciding not to sing the British national anthem at the Olympics.
Footballers Kim Little and Ifeoma Dieke both declined to join their team mates in singing God Save the Queen before their recent game against New Zealand.
Ms Little said she had made a “personal choice” not to sing it “because she is Scottish”.
The two joined Welsh stars Ryan Giggs and Craig Bellamy who also decided not to sing the song prior to men’s team GB’s opening game against Senegal.
The decisions by the Scots and Welsh team members has led to claims of ‘offence’ with the British Olympic Association said to be ‘furious’.
According to the Daily Mail, the association has instructed all athletes competing for team GB to learn the words of God Save the Queen and to sing it in order to “show respect”.
Speaking to the Daily Mail, Former javelin thrower and Olympic silver medallist Fatima Whitbread said: ‘I think it’s a poor show if you are competing under a British flag and you don’t feel proud to be British.
‘It’s fine for you to believe in Scottish independence and to have your own beliefs – there has always been a bit of a rivalry – but if you are competing under a British flag you need to feel British.’
However Miss Little’s grandfather, William Little said he “supported her 100 per cent” in her decision.
“It’s the national anthem of England, and she is Scottish,” he said. “It is her decision and I support it 100 per cent. I would have done the same. In my personal view I would like to see a Scotland team at the Olympics.”
Comments
2012-07-27 07:50
” if you deem it a Foreign National Anthem then Why are you competing in their Team” ?
2012-07-27 08:37
2012-07-27 10:42
In regard to the anthem, if there is reason for objection to singing the anthem, as in the case of ambiguity, then the nation concerned may play and sing the Olympic Anthem.
In the case of GB there is most definitely ambiguity. This ambiguity could easily have been removed long ago by the simple expedient of either having an alternative British anthem with GStQ being retained by England for sporting events OR have a new England only anthem while GStQ is retained for the Olympics and other sporting events which involve GB.
Why that has not happened is perhaps more indicative of a little Englander psyche of some English people and their inability or unwillingness to acknowledge a difference between English and British.
The British Olympic Committee, by issuing a diktat that all Scots athletes must sing GStQ is further elevating the jingoistic kind of nationalism for the Olympics above other sports. After all, footballers, rugby players etc. may normally decline to sing GStQ or FoS etc as the wish.
It is all sadly reminiscent of past Brit Nat farces like banning Scottish skier, Alain Baxter’s saltire dyed haircut so he had to shave it off, or, more recently, the banning of the saltire flying at Hampden Park during Olympic games (until it was pointed out that in the Barcelona Olympics the Catalan flag flew alongside the Spanish).
The syllogism:
Scottish is British,
British is English,
Therefore Scottish is English
Has a failed premise in there.
2012-07-27 16:56
2012-07-27 07:55
2012-07-27 08:35
2012-07-27 09:48
Why should anyone with a sense of decency sing a dirge which contains the words’Rebellious Scots to crush’?
Because not a lot of Scots know these words are there.
Well done girls for making a stand.
2012-07-27 10:25
Quoting Siôn Jones:
Why should anyone with a sense of decency sing a dirge which contains the words’Rebellious Scots to crush’?
Because not a lot of Scots know these words are there.
Those words are NOT there.
“There is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are a matter of tradition.”
2012-07-27 18:03
2012-07-27 08:45
And as for Ms Whitbread, how do you make yourself “feel British”? You either do or you don’t.
The days of the Olympics being about good sportsmanship, moral fibre, showing respect, team spirit etc are well past, it’s a high tech business and we shouldn’t pretend otherwise.
2012-07-27 09:25
2012-07-27 10:33
Even C4’s Jon Snow couldn’t get his correction right the other day. After the programme called the women’s football team ‘England’ he made a great hoo-ha of making the correction on air at the end of the saying, we should have said Great Britain, as their were two Scots players. ‘
No Jon – actually what you should have said was Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Yeas it’s a right old mouthful, but it’s correct so get it right.
2012-07-27 13:19
London has essentially funded the entire thing.
2012-07-28 12:07
Actually it isn’t. It’s Great Britain and Northern Ireland, this ‘Team GB’ just ignores them. How nice, especially as the good tax [payers of NI have contributed hundreds of millions towards these games.
Even C4’s Jon Snow couldn’t get his correction right the other day. After the programme called the women’s football team ‘England’ he made a great hoo-ha of making the correction on air at the end of the saying, we should have said Great Britain, as their were two Scots players. ‘
No Jon – actually what you should have said was Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Yeas it’s a right old mouthful, but it’s correct so get it right.
Sorry but you are wrong.
This I find causes a lot of confusion and it suits Westminster to keep the ‘grey area’
The BOA has the Olympic charter for Scotland, England and Wales. It also includes territories with no Olympic association outwith the UK state such as Jersey, Isle of Man, Falklands etc.
Team GB is not the UK state team.
There is no state team in any sport which competes as United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Hence why the IOC membership held by the BOA is called “Great Britain” as it a non-political geographical identifier.
It includes members from outwith the UK and does not have the charter for all the countries within the UK.
The OCI (Olympic Council of Ireland)hold the Olympic charter for all 32 counties of Ireland including all Northern Ireland.
Ireland again is a team which is not just the Rep of Ireland state but includes territory outwith their state.
There is nothing to stop Scotland having our own Olympic team even if we are not independent.
There are many non-sovereign teams which compete in the Olympics such as Puerto Rico, Cook Islands, Hong Kong etc.
In fact Hong Kong always had their own Olympic team when they were under British sovereignty.
Last night you also saw Bermuda, Cayman Islands and British Virgin islands enter the stadium with their team even though they are not independent and still under British sovereignty.
The other British sovereign territories like Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, Falklands, Pitcairn Island, Anguila, British Indian Ocean territory, British Virgin Islands, Gibraltar, Monsterrat, Pitcairn Islands, Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, Turks and Caicos Islands, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands and Akrotiri and Dhekelia all are part of “Team GB”.
This is another archiac overhang from times gone by and suits the British establishment to keep this veneer and front of a unified “nation”, “country”, “state” or “Britishness” which does not actually exist in reality.
In any case, come 2016 we will have our own Scottish Olympic team for our athletes and citizens to be proud of after the vote in 2014!
2012-07-27 10:53
As an after thought, because I spent nearly 30 years in South Africa I am more likely to sing Sikelele Afrika before I sing GStQ. However I was born a Scot and remain one, Flower of Scotland is my preferred anthem.
2012-07-27 11:09
Also, if it’s such a big deal I expect disciplinaries. However the guidelines seem to have been learn the anthem and be respectful. As NkosiEcosse says, standing quietly is respectful. It’s not like they walked out, sat down or belted out Flower of Scotland! And I’m sure they know the words as they’re rammed down our throat at every opportunity. Hell’s teeth, it’s not that long since the BBC used to finish a days broadcasting with it!
2012-07-27 11:43
Regarding anyone choosing not to sing the words of the so-called British National Anthem, what if the athlete concerned doesn’t believe in the Christian version of a supernatural being given the title of “God”? And what if the athlete concerned doesn’t agree in principle with this deity being asked to save a woman, who was born into her life of privilege and super wealth, with no merit or other qualification required?
Why should that athlete be required to be hypocritical enough to sing such a
load of quasi-religious twaddle?
Finally,This morning on Call Kaye I heard the usual Salmond haters criticising him for sending a good luck message to ALL the “Team GB” athletes, including the Scots therein, which as our First Minister he is perfectly entitled to do. Have these people heard the jingoistic rantings of David Cameron and Boris Johnstone? Cameron is quite openly touting for business investment on the back of these Olympic Games. Is that in the “Olyimpic spirit”? That is a prime example of how an international sporting event has been hijacked by politicians for venal commercial purposes, rather than a celebration of all that is excellent in athletic achievement by individual athletes.
Rant over, that’s me off to the darkened room to calm down. Somebody give me a shout when the country gets back to what passes for normal – rain and recession.
2012-07-27 11:55
Whilst I have some sympathy for those above wondering why the individuals involved felt the need to participate if they were so opposed to the concept of singing the UK anthem, I would stoutly defend their right not to sing it.
I imagine any moves to officially censure or discipline anyone who does this would provoke a furious reaction, and add thousands of votes to the YES campaign for 2014.
What many English (and to be fair foreign) people don’t understand, is the fact that “most” Scots don’t regard God Save the Queen as “their” anthem, any more than they regard England as their team. I’ve lived in England for 20 years, but I would NEVER sing the UK anthem, though I would stand for it as a mark or respect.
Whether the frothing right wing carpet biters in the English media like it or not, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own sporting identities, and are therefore somewhat distinct from other areas…. there are no Catalan, Bavarian or Breton teams competing internationally after all.
With luck come the next Olympics the point will be moot anyway!
2012-07-27 12:00
2012-07-27 12:35
2012-07-27 12:37
The solution for me is for no Athletes at all from Scotland to compete under Team GB Banner. We still have the commonwealth Games you Know. Put all your Efforts into that for the time Being and Perhaps our Medal tally will Increase their along with standing us in Good steid for a Future Scots Olympic Team. ( I don’t expect this to happen and I Do Understand the difficulties at present Though)
2012-07-27 12:50
I don’t agree with those who say they could have chosen not to be in the Team GB. Yes it was an option. But Team GB is the only opportunity for Scots to participate in these Olympics. It would have been different if there had been a Scottish Team.
These ladies have made a moral stand, and they are to be well congratulated. I’m sure it was not an easy decision for them, there would have been pressure, and perhaps the stress could affect their performance.
I remember not standing in the cinema, after the film, when that anthem was played as they did at the end. It was nerve wracking, as a youngster, and at first as maybe the only person not standing. Later it became a bit more common.
As a people we still have a ways to go. Standing up for your (own) country is good, and I’m glad to see these two making their stand.
2012-07-27 13:03
2012-07-27 13:04
I’m fairly sure these two girls are not unique in playing for a team that doesn’t represent their country of birth and not singing the anthem. After all, the UK is not actually a country or a nation, just more of a political arrangement.
What should have happened is that Scotland should have had its own team. In the absence of this, the girls maybe felt that the only way for Scotland to be represented at all was for them to take part, but to make it clear in the only way they could that they were representing their country of birth.
Can’t find it in myself to disapprove of lassies of independent mind.
2012-07-27 14:35
But remember, they are not playing on behalf of the UK. They are playing on behalf of Team GB and NI. If they were playing on behalf of the United ‘Kingdom’ then you could understand having to put up with the Monarchial baggage. However they are playing on behalf of team GB and NI, it’s a democracy (so we are told.) and they are entitled to their views and to express those views.
Good for them.
2012-07-27 13:27
2012-07-27 14:18
2012-07-27 14:41
The Olympics have been one huge scam, the country on it’s knees but get the Olympics then throw millions of quid to build, rebuild sports facilities, upgrade the infrastucture of London and get the rest of the country to pay for it. Throw a couple of minor footie games to appease the Jocks and the Taffs (no offense Sion :-)) and Robert’s your uncle and Fanny your aunt!
2012-07-27 14:47
My greatest wish is for FIFA to say that Scotland should not have its own national football team: we’d be independent in a fortnight!
2012-07-27 15:00
Well done to the Welsh players aslo
2012-07-27 15:37
They weren’t chatting , picking their nose or any other anti social picking?
If they stood still , didn’t wave to mum or girlfiend /boyfriend then what is all the fuss about?
2012-07-27 17:34
Much ado about nothing.
Kim and her family from the Moray area shone like a beacon as a football player from an early age.
I know the family from 2000 and are lovely people eho it was a pleasure to meet whilst I supported youth football. In this case female.
My only gripe would be why allow herself to be picked?. Jenny Beattie daughter of Johnny Beattie did she start the game therefore on the pitch singing her heart out ?? Now that is just a question.
I know of a few other Scottish girls who also captained the Scottish team both these Olympian played in . I also know they did not wish to be associated with team GB.
Indeed educarion and university studies became first in their priorities.
The Little family are a fine breed and the bottle shown by Kim is to be acknowledged and accepted by those unionist who lost the plot many years ago.
Hopefully in 4 years time my country Scotland shall compete as a right Although winning gold would be a great achievement taking part as an athlete fot a free Scotland is far more important Robbed by London and its counterpart the lottery fund of £200,000,000 + which would have progressed athletes, swimmers etc..
Second hand bucket seat on offer (
Commonwealth Games 2014) from down south should be pushed to where the sun don’t shine.
My best wishes to Kim in her future exploits. x
2012-07-27 18:31
Not singing might not be a political statement at all, some athletes just can’t sing and prefer to be quiet instead of distracting their teammates with their out-of-tune bawling. Many Finnish athletes take that option, it doesn’t mean they’re not happy and proud to be Finns.
Fair enough, these young Scots women have said that for them it was a political thing. How do you reconcile politics and sport?
Ideally the two should be separate (just like religion and state/politics, and don’t get me started on that!) but of course sporting success breeds national pride. Hannes Kolehmainen and other Olympic gold medal winners in the Stockholm Olympics did a lot for Finnish national self-esteem in 1912, and in 1917 we became independent.
In the first London Olympics, in 1908, Finland, then an autonomous Grand Duchy of the Russian Empire, had its own team and refused to march behind the Russian flag. Marched without a flag, just the name of the team. Four years later in Stockholm it was the same thing, and the organisers had a dilemma when a Finnish athlete or team won. They hoisted the imperial Russian flag with a pennant underneath saying “Finland won”. Oh, and Finland didn’t actually have a historic national flag at the time. It was the first parliament of an independent Finland that decided on the sky-blue cross on a white background that we all now love. (It’s based on pennants of nationalist-minded yacht clubs!)
I’m not sure if national anthems were played/sung back then, but I’m sure that no Finnish athlete would’ve sung a Russian anthem, we’d already had our own for decades, Maamme (=”Our Country”) still in use. Belted out enthusiasticall y, even if somewhat out of key, by fans every time a Finnish athlete or team wins. It’s great. 😀
Oh, and as to these young women choosing to play for “Team GB” but not singing GSTQ. You have to understand that they’re athletes first and foremost, even in a team sport. Few athletes turn down an opportunity to compete in the Olympics, given the chance. In recent history I know only one, Latvian ice-hockey goalie Arturs Irbe. He won the world championship with Soviet Union in 1989 and 1990 but refused to play for the Soviet team in 1991 because by that time Latvia had declared independence. He then played in the NHL and the Latvian national team in lower international divisions.
2012-07-27 20:59
is also reporting that an official BOA email celebrated the women’s Team GB victory over New Zealand in Cardiff as “England women on their way”.
As to the “Team GB” name, it is actually reasonably appropriate.
Great Britain is the largest of the British Isles, and the term can be used to include the independent nations in the Channel Islands and Man, whose athletes are included for the Olympics.
Those in Northern Ireland can choose whether they want to compete for Ireland or Team GB.
In this context, “GB” excludes part of the UK, and includes countries that aren’t in the UK.
2012-07-27 21:03
2012-07-27 22:35
And yet when a home country athlete (Scot, Welsh) demonstrates a belief beyond the insular, jingoistic, Brit. nationalism that threatens to engulf his/her native culture and are asked to show respect to the non-democratically elected leader of a foreign country which exerts power over his/her nation, then that same ‘liberal’ English media will lambast the athlete as being for treacherous and consider the Tower of London too good for him/her.
Double standards, do you not agree?
2012-07-27 22:46
I remember my parents not being impressed at Smith and Carlos but I thought “good for them”.
What might happen is there may be a debate about England using it as their anthem.
2012-07-27 22:35
Here in tiny Kirriemuir, we were bemused at the late arrival of a huge screen “The largest in Angus” with Free admission 1000 burgers etc. to display the ceremony.
Needless to say I did not feel disposed to attend myself despite it being 15 min walk away on a fine August evening.
Not far into the ceremony we had a sizeable section on J M Barrie, his creation of Peter Pan and the fact he donated the copyright proceeds to Great Ormand Street hospital in London. This was part of a general section on the NHS.
One cannot help wondering if there was a connection there and the more cynical (like me) might expect to see any positive reaction to the Barrie section by the Kirrie crowd feature in tomorrow’s BBC Scottish news. Unless of course there was insufficient turnout for the freeby or no response. Time will tell.
2012-07-27 22:55
Don’t they realise that they would be “Better Together”?
If the Holy Roman Empire hadn’t split into these wee countries like Germany and Italy, just think how far up the medal table they would be!
2012-07-28 00:40
Where have Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia etc got since it split up.
Oh yeah football semi finals, tennis no ones etc.
Better together my a**e.
2012-07-27 23:02
twitter.com/OurOlympics
twitter.com/…/1
citizen.band @citizenband
@BBCnews remember how keen u were to report on protests in #china during last #olympics what about #criticalmass being battered by the MET?
twitter.com/citizenband
2012-07-27 23:16
The bimbo has also just said that golf “will make it’s debut as an Olympic sport in 2016”. Can’t the BBC find commentators who know that golf featured in Paris in 1900 (Men – USA Gold, Scotland Silver and Bronze : Ladies – USA all medals) and 1904 in St Louis (only USA and Canada participated)?
2012-07-28 00:06
Despite that error, she showed a huge knowledge of abstruse sporting facts, so I’m prepared to forgive her the occasional lapse.
2012-07-28 01:03
2012-07-28 01:28
2012-07-28 02:29
2012-07-28 02:58
You are attempting to joke, I presume – even though your “joke” is based on a total misrepresentati on of Scotland.
2012-07-28 02:29
2012-07-28 11:34
2012-07-29 16:30
So presumably it is OK for FW fans to watch her and miss the opening.
2012-07-28 12:51
2012-07-28 13:15
I’m also republican, so I dont do royalty songs
4 words in and its not looking very healthy is it?
And as for Fatima .. looking quite like the late Lybian leader these days, mind you he had some balls too!!
2012-07-28 14:35
2012-07-28 21:04
————————————-
Hundreds march in Olympics protest in east London
Up to 400 protesters joined in the march
Cyclists held near Olympic Park
Up to 400 people have marched in Tower Hamlets in east London to protest against what they claim is the “Corporate Olympics”.
The demonstration, organised by Counter Olympics Network, began at Mile End station and ended at Wennington Green.
The march was over issues which included free tickets for sponsors and the sidelining of local businesses.
bbc.co.uk/…/…
———————————–
Also why are so many ‘sold out’ events empty?
—————————————
Empty Olympics venue seats investigated
Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt: ”We are looking at this (the issue of empty seats) very urgently”
Olympic organisers are investigating why many seats were empty during events at venues including the Aquatics Centre in east London.
The BBC’s Nick Hope said areas high in the stands at the sold-out event were full but several hundred more expensive seats lower down were not filled.
Locog said some accredited seats – for press and media – were empty.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19028979
——————————–
Aye bread and circuses right enough.
2012-07-28 22:22
Quote:
On the evening of the 30th October 1792, there was a gala performance of As You Like It, put on for the pleasure of the gentlemen of the Caledonian and the Dumfries and Galloway hunt. There was a socially distinguished audience that included the Marquis of Queensberry and his party. When “God Save the King” was called for at the successful conclusion of the performance, there were counter calls from the pit for “Ca Ira”, the song of the French Revolutionaries . Scuffling and shouting broke out, this was suppressed and drowned by the singing of the National Anthem, but it was reported that Mr Robert Burns remained seated throughout the singing, a scandalous, if courageous, act of defiance at a time when public feeling was running high against the French.
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